Windows 8.1 Update 2 Start Menu

[VirtualLarry]

Getting rid of the Start Menu, and giving us a Start Screen, is like taking a file cabinet away from an office, and replacing it with a gigantic bulletin board. Sure, it's different, but is it really better?

That being said, I bought an AIO with Windows 8, and I guess I hate 8 less now that I've had a chance to use it, but it is annoying.

There's some SoundBlaster software that loads at startup, and is in the systray area as an icon. Well, I double-clicked the icon, it appeared to do nothing, so I double-clicked it again, and then later on, two instances tried to load and they both crashed. So the icon disappeared. So I wanted to manually start the program.

In Win7, I would just click Start, All Programs, Creative, Sound Blaster App.

In Win8, click over to Start Screen. Nope, program not there.

In the end, I had to go to Desktop, open Windows Explorer, navigate to C:\Program Files (x86), Creative, and then double-click the .exe file to re-launch it.

Win8 is slower, because it forces you to do more steps in a roundabout manner.

 

[mikeymikec]

@ VirtualLarry

I don't often come to the defence of Windows 8, but your example is flawed.

99%* of the time, if a shortcut is in C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu, then looking in Windows 8's all program list will find it just the same as it would on Win7.

On Windows 8.0, Right-clicking on a blank area of the Start screen then clicking on 'All Apps' gives you the same sort of breakdown as 'All Programs' would on Win7.

On Win8.1, clicking on the down arrow near the bottom-left corner of the Start screen will do the same thing. On this version, that's the same number of clicks as on Win7 (with a possible exception of a small screen combined with a large programs list, then scrolling may be necessary).

* - I said 99% because I found a flaw, certainly in 8.0 - if you create a shortcut (in that Start menu folder location I previously described) that points to IE then includes a web address (so basically you explicitly want to start IE to go to a website that isn't the home page), Win 8.0 basically ignores the shortcut when you try to find it on the Start screen (search or all apps).

 

[WelshBloke]

On Windows 8.0, Right-clicking on a blank area of the Start screen then clicking on 'All Apps' gives you the same sort of breakdown as 'All Programs' would on Win7.

On Win8.1, clicking on the down arrow near the bottom-left corner of the Start screen will do the same thing.

The all apps thing is one of the worst things about win8.*

It's just like Windows vomits up a page (horizontally scrolling at that! WTF!) full of shortcuts to every exe and random file it wants.
If you've used your PC for awhile and have a few things installed it's truly horrible.

 

[mikeymikec]

The all apps thing is one of the worst things about win8.*

If just like Windows vomits up a page (horizontally scrolling at that! WTF!) full of shortcuts to every exe and random file it wants.
If you've used your PC for awhile and have a few things installed it's truly horrible.

I think that's a "to each their own" thing though (and even though it is horizontal scrolling, it responds to the mouse wheel, which is nice). A huge 'All Programs' list on older versions of Windows is as unusable IMO. My solution (in either case) is not to have a million things installed.

Perhaps with as large a list on Win8 versus an older version, Win8's results in more screen space being used though.

One of my biggest gripes with Win8 is that Metro apps and the Start screen aren't affected by the DPI setting. This setting is absolutely essential for people who have poor eyesight and shouldn't just be subject to a new Win8 feature whereby the text is scaled if a higher DPI screen is detected, as most people don't have those.

Win8's File Explorer has the same DPI issue.

MS also removed the UI for making modifications to window metrics, which are useful when catering for people with accessibility issues.

 

[WelshBloke]

I think that's a "to each their own" thing though (and even though it is horizontal scrolling, it responds to the mouse wheel, which is nice).

Scroll wheel down - window moves left.

That's not so nice.

A huge 'All Programs' list on older versions of Windows is as unusable IMO.

At least a huge list is nested on older versions. Its not like I click the start button and Windows vomits up a link to everything it can.

My solution (in either case) is not to have a million things installed.

I'd rather not have the number of programmes I can install be limited by a failure of the UI.


Also why the hell do I have a splash screen that I have to click through just to get to my log in? It's a small thing but it's really irritating.

*goes to look up the regedit to get rid of it* *grumble* *grumble*

 

[mikeymikec]

Scroll wheel down - window moves left.

That's not so nice.

I don't have a Win8 PC to hand, so I'll take your word for it. Yep, that's stupid.

- edit - yes I do. When I scroll down, the I get to see the items to the right that I couldn't see before. That's what I would expect anyway...

At least a huge list is nested on older versions. Its not like I click the start button and Windows vomits up a link to everything it can.

I agree

I'd rather not have the number of programmes I can install be limited by a failure of the UI.

Yup, though my point was that an overly large Start menu is the result of 'too many programs'.

Also why the hell do I have a splash screen that I have to click through just to get to my log in? It's a small thing but it's really irritating.

*goes to look up the regedit to get rid of it* *grumble* *grumble*

But it's pretty!

 

[RampantAndroid]

Scroll wheel down - window moves left.

That's not so nice.

What would you rather have it be? At one point I believe it was DRAG the pointer to move it. THAT'S not so nice. Scrolling makes sense, since it's something on my mouse. Granted, this is a touch interface, but not utilizing the scroll wheel would be asinine.

Scroll wheel down, you see new items come from the right (to be clear)

*goes to look up the regedit to get rid of it* *grumble* *grumble*

Taskbar - Properties - Navigation - "When I sign in....go to the desktop"

Feature added. THIS people is why I feel that while there are valid complaints about Win8/8.1, most people don't have valid complaints because they haven't done their homework.

 

[WelshBloke]

What would you rather have it be? At one point I believe it was DRAG the pointer to move it. THAT'S not so nice. Scrolling makes sense, since it's something on my mouse. Granted, this is a touch interface, but not utilizing the scroll wheel would be asinine.

Scroll wheel down, you see new items come from the right (to be clear)

How would I like it?

When I scroll down on the mouse it scrolls down on the screen. Like every other menu thats on Windows.

See this is a problem of crowbarring a touch interface into where its not suited.

Taskbar - Properties - Navigation - "When I sign in....go to the desktop"

Feature added. THIS people is why I feel that while there are valid complaints about Win8/8.1, most people don't have valid complaints because they haven't done their homework.

This is before you log in, its the weird swirly screen that obscures your login screen.

 

[BoberFett]

I do hope they phase out the old Start menu,two decades is enough and in that time it has remained the same virtually.

The wheel has been around a while too. It's about time we tried a new shape...

Change merely for the sake of change is stupid.

 

[BoberFett]

The all apps thing is one of the worst things about win8.*

It's just like Windows vomits up a page (horizontally scrolling at that! WTF!) full of shortcuts to every exe and random file it wants.
If you've used your PC for awhile and have a few things installed it's truly horrible.

Horizontal scrolling is a plague.

 

[RampantAndroid]

See this is a problem of crowbarring a touch interface into where its not suited.

I absolutely agree here, but given the alternative was no scroll wheel support...



This is before you log in, its the weird swirly screen that obscures your login screen.
You mean the lock screen. What you want is here: http://techpageone.dell.com/technology/disable-windows-8-1-lock-screen/#.U2LIZfldWjI

That said, you're really going to complain about that one? Customize the photo and live with it. One spacebar tap for me wakes up the machine, second tap removes the lock screen and I can type my password (all before the monitor fully shows the image.)

See inline

 

[Mem]

The wheel has been around a while too. It's about time we tried a new shape...

Change merely for the sake of change is stupid.

Linux reinvents Start menus all the time,nothing wrong with a modern round wheel unless you don't like change,remember what I said earlier Linux has some of the best Start menus around.


I hope Microsoft continue to try(reinvent) some new modern Start menus in later operating systems like Win9,10 etc....

Wheels may be still round but tyres have evolved over the decades.

 

[mikeymikec]

Wheels may be still round but tyres have evolved over the decades.

However, tyres don't seem to be subject to the child-like whims of a designer who got bored and wanted to re-arrange things.

IMO a decent manager should spot this hankering for pointless change and send the designer off to another project for a while.

I know, let's do touch-screen windscreens! Or touch-sensitive steering wheels! If you massage the steering wheel like so <insert porny music here>, it'll indicate left! Also, for increased road safety, we want to encourage people not to fiddle with the car stereo while driving, so let's mount its controls on the ceiling and make them voice-activated.

If a UI designer actually has a sensible idea for how to improve a UI, there should be a clear, non-debatable case for how it improves productivity (or increases simplicity without sacrificing power users' accessibility).

Take Windows 8.0 RTM for example. Microsoft said that their research showed that no-one used the Start menu any more (IMO their research was either very poorly conducted or non-existent, but I'll let that pass for now), so it was time for a change. However, one component of the Start menu was undeniably in use, the shut down options (unless you truly believe that a significant percentage of users went via Ctrl+Alt+Del!). So, where do you decide to put an option which is in every day use, perhaps even multiple times per day depending on the user? I know, let's put it several actions away in a totally non-guessable place, which was also a place which someone who isn't too great with touch-screen interfaces, touchpads or mice might have problems navigating to.

Absolute genius I say. </sarcasm>

It also seems to me like adding the power options was a UI after-thought rather than a central feature. Windows 8.1 U1 is much more intuitive in this department.

 

[sandorski]

There is a Start button, but it just switches to the Metro screen. I hardly ever used the Start button in previous Windows, so it doesn't bother me.

That said, after the recent Update, Windows now boots to Desktop rather than Metro for me. A significant savings of 1 whole mouse click!

 

[WelshBloke]

I absolutely agree here, but given the alternative was no scroll wheel support...

The sensible alternative would have been to have stuff scrolling down.

You mean the lock screen. What you want is here: http://techpageone.dell.com/technolo.../#.U2LIZfldWjI

That said, you're really going to complain about that one? Customize the photo and live with it. One spacebar tap for me wakes up the machine, second tap removes the lock screen and I can type my password (all before the monitor fully shows the image.)

Lock screen? Thats a strange name they gave it being as it doesnt lock and just gets in the way of the actual screen that locks it.

And why shouldn't I complain about it? Its a totally pointless thing that has a ridiculously convoluted way of disabling it and serves no purpose but to irritate the end user.

 

[Mem]

However, tyres don't seem to be subject to the child-like whims of a designer who got bored and wanted to re-arrange things.

IMO a decent manager should spot this hankering for pointless change and send the designer off to another project for a while.

I know, let's do touch-screen windscreens! Or touch-sensitive steering wheels! If you massage the steering wheel like so <insert porny music here>, it'll indicate left! Also, for increased road safety, we want to encourage people not to fiddle with the car stereo while driving, so let's mount its controls on the ceiling and make them voice-activated.

If a UI designer actually has a sensible idea for how to improve a UI, there should be a clear, non-debatable case for how it improves productivity (or increases simplicity without sacrificing power users' accessibility).

Take Windows 8.0 RTM for example. Microsoft said that their research showed that no-one used the Start menu any more (IMO their research was either very poorly conducted or non-existent, but I'll let that pass for now), so it was time for a change. However, one component of the Start menu was undeniably in use, the shut down options (unless you truly believe that a significant percentage of users went via Ctrl+Alt+Del!). So, where do you decide to put an option which is in every day use, perhaps even multiple times per day depending on the user? I know, let's put it several actions away in a totally non-guessable place, which was also a place which someone who isn't too great with touch-screen interfaces, touchpads or mice might have problems navigating to.

Absolute genius I say. </sarcasm>

It also seems to me like adding the power options was a UI after-thought rather than a central feature. Windows 8.1 U1 is much more intuitive in this department.

Easy to get some great new Start menus,they should look at some of the Linux distros,however you can bet some Windows users would still be bitching and moaning,end of the day there will always be some people that don't like new changes even if it does actually improve on older versions any time in the future.

Whatever happens it'll be interesting to see what Win9,10,11 have for Start menus.

I consider myself more of Linux Start menu fan , much more then any Windows version you can name.

It also seems to me like adding the power options was a UI after-thought rather than a central feature. Windows 8.1 U1 is much more intuitive in this department.

I feel they were more concerned with deadlines ie getting it released and adding/fixing the rest later.

 

[showb1z]

The sensible alternative would have been to have stuff scrolling down.

Scrolling right actually makes more sense here. Large amounts of programs would be more of a hassle if it scrolled down. Categories/program listings would be cut off by the bottom screen edge, and the next column wouldn't necessarily continue on, but would start listing another program. So you'd probably do a lot more scrolling around.
(It's kind of hard to put into words.)

The way it throws a bunch of icons at you can be annoying if you don't weed out the useless ones, but the responsibility for that lies with the software devs. They decide what appears in the start menu/screen.

 

[mikeymikec]

however you can bet some Windows users would still be bitching and moaning,end of the day there will always be some people that don't like new changes even if it does actually improve on older versions any time in the future.

You could simply concede that there were some pretty poor design choices rather than fall back on the standard "if you don't like it then you must simply like bitching about change" excuse.

My point wasn't about whether a Start menu is needed, it was about putting the power options (the most universally used part of the Start menu) in a sensible, intuitive and easily accessible place.

 

[Mem]

You could simply concede that there were some pretty poor design choices rather than fall back on the standard "if you don't like it then you must simply like bitching about change" excuse.

No OS is perfect , sure Win8 was far from perfect and I agree things like power options could of been better rather then fixing it later,giving the user more options ie old Start menu would of kept most users happy,however since Windows 3.11/Win95 days (I was around then)users have always moaned about something,it will carry on in Win9,10,11 etc and continue.

I'm not a great fan of Windows but you don't see me bitching about it,I prefer Linux with reasons I won't bore you with.

You know the old saying "each to their own".

I much prefer talking about future of Windows.

 

[MrTransistorm]

I consider myself more of Linux Start menu fan , much more then any Windows version you can name.

Same here, mainly because most Linux DE's use categories.

That's a concept that Microsoft has ignored for way too long. Instead Windows either allows every program to create its own start menu folder (7 and older) or dumps everything in a huge list (8.x). What a mess! Sure you could create your own folders in the start menu and move all of the shortcuts manually, but that is incredibly time consuming and the shortcuts will remain after programs are uninstalled.

 

[Imaginer]

Same here, mainly because most Linux DE's use categories.

That's a concept that Microsoft has ignored for way too long. Instead Windows either allows every program to create its own start menu folder (7 and older) or dumps everything in a huge list (8.x). What a mess! Sure you could create your own folders in the start menu and move all of the shortcuts manually, but that is incredibly time consuming and the shortcuts will remain after programs are uninstalled.

This was short lived and tried with game installations.

The thing is, there is no real good way to do this either across and accounting for the last few versions of Windows, other than a "all applications folder arrangement" which if one has to REALLY go there, then they are spending FAR too much time in the Start screen areas to begin with.

The BEST compromise, is the named groupings of tiles in the Start Screen forefront. This allows arrangement of tiles to launch, without AUTOMATICALLY grouping them. It is still up to the user to arrange how they deemed tiles of importance.

As about the Start menu allowing unhindered viewing of active windows while going through a menu, keep in mind - this is was somewhat of a forward backward necessity. Being time intensive of scrolling through the "All Programs" listings and expanding folders, one naturally takes a long time in that area - thus a perception of wasted seconds diverted from viewing the active window. Thus, the Start menu, is a menu in it's design.

Start Screen, pending your cursor position, can easily be at your application/app in no time. BOTH still allows for text searching of ease and execution with no loss. It is just that the Start Screen (for me) also doubles as my desktop icon array replacement in a MUCH BETTER reveal and hide method for executing programs, thus leaving my true desktop as it should be - "new text document.txt" and "untiled.png" scratch spaces.

It all boils down to, what you make of it - and not being concretely settled in a method of working things. It is this exact mentality why I have not seen any effort in the Tablet PC spaces until now - do note the PC in bold.

 

[Mushkins]

Scrolling right actually makes more sense here. Large amounts of programs would be more of a hassle if it scrolled down. Categories/program listings would be cut off by the bottom screen edge, and the next column wouldn't necessarily continue on, but would start listing another program. So you'd probably do a lot more scrolling around.
(It's kind of hard to put into words.)

The way it throws a bunch of icons at you can be annoying if you don't weed out the useless ones, but the responsibility for that lies with the software devs. They decide what appears in the start menu/screen.

Or you could simply scroll down a page of apps at a time instead of row by row like a slot machine. One tap of the scroll wheel down and you get a whole new page of tiles, all perfectly spaced and formatted like the previous page was. Scrolling down to move the page to the right is awkward and disorienting, there's a reason web designers jump through hoops to avoid horizontal scrolls.

Also letting you organize app icons into folder tiles (think how iOS does it) would be a big improvement instead of dumping *ALL* of everything in front of you. This helps the user combat poor development practices dumping a dozen .exe links on the page too as you can manually lump them all into a "junk" folder.

 

[sourceninja]

hopefully they give me the option to remove the start button AND have a normal start menu (I just use it to open apps, so winkey, type enter app opens).

 

[Imaginer]

Also letting you organize app icons into folder tiles (think how iOS does it) would be a big improvement instead of dumping *ALL* of everything in front of you. This helps the user combat poor development practices dumping a dozen .exe links on the page too as you can manually lump them all into a "junk" folder.

This is EXACTLY what the "All Apps" section is supposed to do. But this area is FAR from perfect. If anything I have about the Start Screen to complain about, it would be this area.

By default, many desktop programs do not dump everything into the Start Menu or Start Screen (I don't think there is a way to automatically pin desktop installed programs after install on either Starts). It isn't up to the developer to dump the apps to the screen (which would bring about another annoying social inflicted malware if given an opportunity).

Again...

Zooming out to view the folder overall hierarchy, selecting a folder, would just get you back to showing roughly that folder's contents part of the "All Apps" screen - with everything else shown still, and no distinction of that folder you selected.

One cannot make a new program folder in this area either, or for that I remember, immediately in the Start Menus itself (one would have to resort to using Windows Explorer / File Explorer.

The Start Screen forefront, is supposed to be an immediate level - one doesn't pin all of their things to this screen, only ones a user would interact with MOST of the time (percentage will vary and there would be a percentage and that isn't 100% or even 80% across all applications). This is in similar manner to the "Recent/Frequently used listings of the Start menu - in itself is limited to so much shown.

Which is another "semi-gripe" of mine. That listing is now a sorted view under "All Apps" screens. There should be an option to have a group in the Start Screen forefront for displaying the tiles of frequent/recently used.

Otherwise, on both a tablet PC like my Surface Pro 2, and on the desktop, navigating constantly through folders in a manner of iOS or feeling that need to, just screams added time.

And about the screen at a time scrolling.

This is more jarring and not as smooth - either on a desktop/laptop/tablet PC space. There is a specific reason for fades, flips, and exploded fade ins that even Apple does. If anything, a screen at a time scrolling is more slot machine like (for me - not that this metaphor is a good comparison anyways).

 

[RampantAndroid]

Lock screen? Thats a strange name they gave it being as it doesnt lock and just gets in the way of the actual screen that locks it.

And why shouldn't I complain about it? Its a totally pointless thing that has a ridiculously convoluted way of disabling it and serves no purpose but to irritate the end user.

At least for touch screen devices, it is useful - it prevents stray touches. If this irritates you, you must have irritable user syndrome, or be looking for things to be irritated about. If you have no password, hit space. If you have a password, hit space, type password, hit enter.