Windows 8 Consumer Preview Feedback Thread

[Hugo Drax]

Upgraded windows 7 pro to preview. Smooth upgrade. I like the new metro start and the apps are quite nice, such as the weather and finance one. So far I like it.

 

[Modelworks]

If you really want to know why they are doing metro the way they are it is because of the iPad. MS had several meetings trying to figure out how they could get into the tablet market and determined that they couldn't write a new OS , new apps and take on the iPad, it would be a repeat of windows phone all over again. Instead they got the idea to take an OS with already lots of applications and lots of developers, the downside being that it would alienate some of the desktop users.

They are taking a huge gamble that they will gain enough market share with tablets to offset the loss they will take from desktop users, and there will be losses. I know of several companies that after seeing the direction of win7 and win8 that have already started researching a switch to linux. Companies like the freedom to choose and many of them feel MS is removing their ability to choose the more the OS develops.

Time will tell but I can see this easily becoming the point where MS either lives or dies.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

I can't help but think that surely MS is just forcing Metro down everyone's throat in the previews to get them to recognize what a good tablet UI it is and will keep the start menu at least as an option for the desktop. At least that's what I want to believe.

 

[Zaap]

If you really want to know why they are doing metro the way they are it is because of the iPad. MS had several meetings trying to figure out how they could get into the tablet market and determined that they couldn't write a new OS , new apps and take on the iPad, it would be a repeat of windows phone all over again.

If that's truly the plan, then they've already failed.

MS can wish all they want, but the truth is, the TabletPC market is not the same as the iPad market- it's way more specialized, and will continue to be. In the near future, TabletPCs are never going to be as popular as the iPad. The simple economics of it- a good TPC that anyone actually wants to use is going to cost at least as much, or more than an iPad. A tablet that costs as much or more as an iPad will not currently sell in mass unless there's a truly compelling reason for normal consumers to want them.

As it stands, a $500-600+ TPC that's actually a decent device won't sell in huge numbers. It'll do well in specialty medical, artistic, architectural fields, enough to support a few popular designs, but not as a mass-market device like the iPad.

Instead they got the idea to take an OS with already lots of applications and lots of developers, the downside being that it would alienate some of the desktop users.

This approach might actually have helped the situation, except the Metro direction is the exact opposite of this. They're basically tossing out the strengths of Windows (lots of existing developers and apps) and muddying the water with another entire layer of confusion.

So do developers develop Metro UI apps, or just Windows apps? All they've done is fragmented the interface under the banner of a single OS, when really it's an OS chopped in two, so to speak. The developer process has been made even more complicated, not less.

I don't see where the Metro UI helps virtually any application type that one will want on a Tablet PC. For gaming- who the hell cares what UI you launched the game from? All one needs is an icon to click and launch a game into its own interface. For spreadsheets and technical apps it's the same thing. Artistic apps also have their own interfaces. Maybe web apps might benefit, but that's about it.

I keep returning to the fact that boiled down, all MS has really done is create an amazingly over-complicated START MENU. That's the long and short of it. Mucking around with application interfaces that require the MetroUI is just an exercise in needless complication. The reality is, no developer that's actually any good requires MS to constrain the user interface of their application for them. If one is honest, and one actually thinks about it, that's all that's "gained" from Metro with regard to applications- a constrained interface. Big whoopity doodle.


It's a lot of wasted effort IMO, and thus far, I'm predicting FAIL. I'm guessing that Windows 9 will have to eventually ride in and correct all the mistakes of Windows 8, and it may be another one that many of us are in the meantime sitting out.

They are taking a huge gamble that they will gain enough market share with tablets to offset the loss they will take from desktop users

They're dreaming. Unless very good tablets can be had for $299 that best the iPad 3, this is never going to happen.

What's far more likely is that a couple of companies will rush to make Windows 8 tablets- they'll cost $699 and up and FAIL miserably because few will buy that outside of a few specialized markets.

A few knock offs may crop up at the right price point, but unlike a netbook that doesn't need high-quality components like a good touchscreen and/or pen input, cheap tablets with cheap components universally suck. So those will likely fail as well.

When the dust settles, Asus and a couple of others will make a small handful of models that sell well in specialized markets and occasionally in the mass market, but nothing approaching iPad levels. Normally it wouldn't be a bad outcome, it's just that normally no one would be sacrificing desktop users for such a scrap.

Time will tell but I can see this easily becoming the point where MS either lives or dies.

I'm doubting it'll kill them, but I just see it as likely another loss like Vista ended up being. Hopefully Windows 9 will get things back on track the way 7 mopped up after Vista.

 

[blurredvision]

I know of several companies that after seeing the direction of win7 and win8 that have already started researching a switch to linux.

Why would a company combat change with change? Seems like a stupid move. Also, exactly what direction of W7 did they not like? While I would agree that W8, so far, doesn't seem to be geared towards business use, W7 is perfectly capable and much better than WinXP.

 

[FM2n]

You guys want to know why people hate Windows 8?

Because they're expecting it to be a Windows 7 service pack 2.

Only if you look at it with a fresh perspective, the Metro Start menu makes perfect sense and is a very clever way of bridging between Desktop and Metro. Once you get used to using it, you will be running Desktop as if Windows 8 never existed, and when you want to run an app, you just hit the Windows Key and start typing the first few letters of the program, like "out" for Outlook, then hit enter. I can do these things so fast that you don't even see it on the screen. Certainly faster than when I was clicking on the Start button and finding the icon. In many cases, in Windows 7, I was pretty much doing the same thing, hitting the windows key and typing in the first few letters.

Secondly if you want to use the desktop, just do Windows Key + D, very fast. I have always been a hotkey fanatic and the hotkeys are put to very good use.

If you treat Desktop as if nothing has changed except for the Metro Start, you will very rarely even have to access Metro apps.

I hated it it too in the first 5 minutes, but as I played around with it, things started making sense and I will say that Microsoft is doing a great job in bridging the two interfaces without any sacrifices except our own comfort.

I think either way it is a Lose Lose situation for MS because people who are used to Windows 7 won't give the new interface much of a chance. And if MS designed Windows 8 tablet edition and Windows 8 desktop edition, people will complain that there are things that they could do on their desktop that they couldn't do on their tablet. I am VERY happy to know that when I install Windows 8 onto my tablet, I will have all the functionality of a Desktop without it being a desktop. The joy of full fledge Excel, Word, Powerpoint on a tablet, JIZZ!

 

[Zaap]

You guys want to know why people hate Windows 8?

Because they're expecting it to be a Windows 7 service pack 2.


Only if you look at it with a fresh perspective, the Metro Start menu makes perfect sense and is a very clever way of bridging between Desktop and Metro. Once you get used to using it, you will be running Desktop as if Windows 8 never existed, and when you want to run an app, you just hit the Windows Key and start typing the first few letters of the program, like "out" for Outlook, then hit enter. I can do these things so fast that you don't even see it on the screen. Certainly faster than when I was clicking on the Start button and finding the icon. In many cases, in Windows 7, I was pretty much doing the same thing, hitting the windows key and typing in the first few letters.

Secondly if you want to use the desktop, just do Windows Key + D, very fast. I have always been a hotkey fanatic and the hotkeys are put to very good use.

If you treat Desktop as if nothing has changed except for the Metro Start, you will very rarely even have to access Metro apps.

I hated it it too in the first 5 minutes, but as I played around with it, things started making sense and I will say that Microsoft is doing a great job in bridging the two interfaces without any sacrifices except our own comfort.

So we need the start menu bloated to where it has to scroll across not just one but several desktops... just to use keyboard commands to launch apps the same as we always could? HUH? Sorry, not getting how this is a selling point of Metro.

I think either way it is a Lose Lose situation for MS because people who are used to Windows 7 won't give the new interface much of a chance.

I don't need to "give MS a chance." They've got billions of our 'chances' in the form of our dollars that their shit costs us as a (often hefty) percentage of the cost of our computers.

And if MS designed Windows 8 tablet edition and Windows 8 desktop edition, people will complain that there are things that they could do on their desktop that they couldn't do on their tablet.

Please, MS will have about six different versions of this thing, like they usually do.

I am VERY happy to know that when I install Windows 8 onto my tablet, I will have all the functionality of a Desktop without it being a desktop. The joy of full fledge Excel, Word, Powerpoint on a tablet, JIZZ!

I already run full Office apps on my tablet running Windows 7. Once more, Metro won't do a thing for these other than provide a big useless square (that I'll likely have to scroll to get to) to launch the application. Big deal.

Or is MS going to fragment Office into Metro UI versions, and regular desktop versions? Yes, fragmentation is indeed the future. NOT.

People don't seem to realize Windows 7 already runs on tablets, and the same applications run on tablets. All that MS really needed to do was optimize the already good Windows user interface a little to make interacting with a mouse/pen/finger whatever equally as good. This isn't the impossible task so many people have for some reason been deluded into believing it is. Using a tablet PC every day, I don't understand why people seem to think that because you click a UI element with a mouse, it's any harder to click with a pen or your finger. One could make some elements expand a little when clicked with a finger, but pen and mouse work virtually the same.

The main areas of improvement are needed on things like scrolling, add pinch zooming to the interface, and basically provide more surfaces to drag things when using a finger as pointer. An entire useless overhaul of the desktop, and a clunky forced-interface for apps (which is really none of the operating system maker's business except for their own apps) is just a lot of wasted effort in the wrong direction. It clearly (as I originally suspected, and now it seems confirmed) comes out of the misguided notion of trying to "me too! me too!" the iPad, rather than truly understand human interface design. MS has proved that they can be spectacularly bad at understanding what people really want and need before- I'm afraid they're about to do it again.

Big stupid squares of color aren't any more helpful on a tablet and a pen/finger interface than they are a desktop- some people might prefer it aesthetically, but it's not the necessity it's being made out as.

And as for Metro UI apps, I've yet to see a single app that's specifically helped by being forced into a restricted interface. And no, not on a tablet either.

 

[Muyoso]

And if MS designed Windows 8 tablet edition and Windows 8 desktop edition, people will complain that there are things that they could do on their desktop that they couldn't do on their tablet.

Uh, that is EXACTLY what they did. What do you think Windows 8 for ARM is? Then instead of having normal x86 Windows 8 be geared towards desktops and laptops, they ruined it by using the same UI as their ARM OS. It makes ZERO sense. None of the apps on ARM are compatible with ANY windows program ever built, ever. So why do you need the big ugly metro UI on a desktop?

Its obvious why. They are using their desktop OS monopoly to force their way into the tablet market. They are shoehorning in a UI that is designed for touch input into their desktop OS so that they can force developers to create apps compatible with their tablet OS.

Still haven't heard a single compelling reason why I would upgrade Windows 7 on my desktop. MetroUI is ugly and designed for touch input. Everyone defending Windows 8 has listed half a dozen new keyboard shortcuts I have to memorize to do basic things that Windows 7 did much easier. Is there a SINGLE reason to upgrade on a desktop?

 

[IlllI]

BTW - If anyone from Microsoft HR stumbles on this.... Please, hire this guy: http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/24/2822891/windows-desktop-ui-concept (proposed alternate Windows UI)

wow. That makes winows 8 look like it was designed by a schizophrenic with a skittles fetish.

 

[BD2003]

Uh, that is EXACTLY what they did. What do you think Windows 8 for ARM is? Then instead of having normal x86 Windows 8 be geared towards desktops and laptops, they ruined it by using the same UI as their ARM OS. It makes ZERO sense. None of the apps on ARM are compatible with ANY windows program ever built, ever. So why do you need the big ugly metro UI on a desktop?

Its obvious why. They are using their desktop OS monopoly to force their way into the tablet market. They are shoehorning in a UI that is designed for touch input into their desktop OS so that they can force developers to create apps compatible with their tablet OS.

Still haven't heard a single compelling reason why I would upgrade Windows 7 on my desktop. MetroUI is ugly and designed for touch input. Everyone defending Windows 8 has listed half a dozen new keyboard shortcuts I have to memorize to do basic things that Windows 7 did much easier. Is there a SINGLE reason to upgrade on a desktop?

I can't think of anything compelling enough. Explorer and task manager are being updated....whoopee. It seems like 99% of the focus for win 8 went towards stuff relevant only to tablets. They could have at least created an app store that supported desktop applications, but nope, metro only. The start screen for desktop users is at best a glorified app launcher, at worst a bunch of widgets. Instead of bringing "live tile" functionality that could coexist with the desktop, they're just marginalizing what is still their core functionality. I think they're in for a shock. The tech media is throwing softballs....regular people are going to be way less forgiving.

 

[gmaster456]

I'm dreading the phone calls. I've already decided to skip out on windows 8 deployment seeing as how we just got everyone on windows 7 anyway. Hopefully they get their act together with windows 9 or at least release an update with a freaking close button on the top right corner of the window and a power button on the start page. That would be a great start. A clock would also be nice but that's pushing things.

 

[Muyoso]

I can't think of anything compelling enough. Explorer and task manager are being updated....whoopee. It seems like 99% of the focus for win 8 went towards stuff relevant only to tablets. They could have at least created an app store that supported desktop applications, but nope, metro only. The start screen for desktop users is at best a glorified app launcher, at worst a bunch of widgets. Instead of bringing "live tile" functionality that could coexist with the desktop, they're just marginalizing what is still their core functionality. I think they're in for a shock. The tech media is throwing softballs....regular people are going to be way less forgiving.

Exactly. They created a tablet OS, stapled it to Windows 7 and called it Windows 8. Why do I want a tablet OS on my desktop? I dont. If they had made Windows 7 prettier, included the new task manager, quick boot, etc, I would have been happy.

 

[sequoia464]

I looked through the thread but didn't see anyone that mentioned using a dual monitor setup. Anyone know how things are oriented with two monitors?

 

[QueBert]

I looked through the thread but didn't see anyone that mentioned using a dual monitor setup. Anyone know how things are oriented with two monitors?

using it with 2 24" touch screen LCD's will give you the optimum experience. And just think, with only 2 monitors you could have FOUR apps open and up at the same time. Who needs Windows 7?

 

[Aikouka]

But the thing is, if you disable Metro what you're left with is Windows 7.1

I wouldn't mind that. I like some of the new things like the fancier copy dialog and such. Even Windows 7 was more of a cleaner version of Vista.

 

[Mirox]

I've been running it since it came out. Mashing up metro with desktop is clunky. The way they've done the desktop without a start orb has made it unintuitive to use. At first I landed inside metro apps and couldn't figure out how to go back or out of them, I can only imagine regular users' confusion if that's not fixed.

Metro apps are also not easy to navigate on desktop PC. They basically gave us a bottom horizontal scrollbar that you may or may not notice. You can't just click and hold with the mouse and flick sideways like you would with your finger.

The desktop improvements I thought were nice but not sure I would recommend to people they fork over $200 for a license, unless something drastic changes between now and release RTM day

 

[Termie]

I've been running it since it came out. Mashing up metro with desktop is clunky. The way they've done the desktop without a start orb has made it unintuitive to use. At first I landed inside metro apps and couldn't figure out how to go back or out of them, I can only imagine regular users' confusion if that's not fixed.

Metro apps are also not easy to navigate on desktop PC. They basically gave us a bottom horizontal scrollbar that you may or may not notice. You can't just click and hold with the mouse and flick sideways like you would with your finger.

The desktop improvements I thought were nice but not sure I would recommend to people they fork over $200 for a license, unless something drastic changes between now and release RTM day

You know, it's the "flicking" that really does W8 in. It's almost impossible to "flick" on a touchpad (try holding a button with your thumb and flicking your finger at the same time), and it's only slightly better on a mouse, since very quick motions are hard to do. They just have to come up with a better input method for desktop users.

That, and press "delete" on the desktop idea entirely - it's duplicative of the metro page.

 

[Dominato3r]

using it with 2 24" touch screen LCD's will give you the optimum experience. And just think, with only 2 monitors you could have FOUR apps open and up at the same time. Who needs Windows 7?

Metro will run on the first screen and classic desktop on every screen after that. I don't know if it's going to be changed, but that's how it is.

 

[gmaster456]

Metro will run on the first screen and classic desktop on every screen after that. I don't know if it's going to be changed, but that's how it is.

I wonder how extending displays will work I've you've got metro in the middle of everything.

 

[Jaskalas]

Too many people here that are afraid of change. Face it, for better or worse computing is moving in this direction. If we believe that this is the "post-pc" era or that computing in general is going more mobile, this hold true even more.

100%, this is the end of the desktop computer. First the consumer, then the worker will follow.

 

[QueBert]

I know plenty of people who are still using XP, so I can easily avoid ever using Windows 8 all together. Hell, I might be able to skip the next 4 versions and still be fine. When the day comes where I have no choice I guess I'll upgrade, but I'll never use Metro willingly. Hopefully by 4 versions down the road they'll have killed Metro. UGH but then I might be faced with a worse UI than Metro, shit

 

[gmaster456]

I know plenty of people who are still using XP, so I can easily avoid ever using Windows 8 all together. Hell, I might be able to skip the next 4 versions and still be fine. When the day comes where I have no choice I guess I'll upgrade, but I'll never use Metro willingly. Hopefully by 4 versions down the road they'll have killed Metro. UGH but then I might be faced with a worse UI than Metro, shit

If your on Vista you're good until 2017 and if your on Windows 7 your good til 2020 so its very possible to skip 4 OS's. And by then, I'm sure there will be than a few workarounds for metro.

 

[QueBert]

If your on Vista you're good until 2017 and if your on Windows 7 your good til 2020 so its very possible to skip 4 OS's. And by then, I'm sure there will be than a few workarounds for metro.

The problem is, I'm a power user and without fail there's always a few program that come out I like that only work with newer version of Windows. And the never need a newer OS for a good reason, it's always a just because thing. Back when I was on Win 3.1 I remember the game I wanted more than anything was Beavis & Butthead. But it was Win 95 only (wtf?) that game could have ran perfectly fine on 3.1. So I upgraded, and while I don't remember which program it was, there was also one that made me upgrade to XP well before I actually wanted to.

 

[gmaster456]

The problem is, I'm a power user and without fail there's always a few program that come out I like that only work with newer version of Windows. And the never need a newer OS for a good reason, it's always a just because thing. Back when I was on Win 3.1 I remember the game I wanted more than anything was Beavis & Butthead. But it was Win 95 only (wtf?) that game could have ran perfectly fine on 3.1. So I upgraded, and while I don't remember which program it was, there was also one that made me upgrade to XP well before I actually wanted to.

I know what you mean. I have had that happen to me as well.

 

[blurredvision]

So is anybody actually using W8CP on a tablet? If so, how do you like it so far?