Windows 8 Consumer Preview Feedback Thread

[ViRGE]

After spending the better part of 2 weeks not just using Win8, but trying to better learn how to use it, I've come to the conclusion that this is the first Windows OS I haven't liked since WinME.

Metro just isn't working for desktop use or laptop use. It's not terrible, but there's nothing Metro does for me that's as efficient as the desktop. In either type system multitasking is harder and the Metro applications themselves are too stupidly large to easily interact with. The keyboard shortcuts do help a lot, but even then it's still clumsy compared to what I could get away with on a keyboard in Windows 7.

With that said, I totally get why Microsoft is doing this - WinRT, the Windows Store, and sandboxing (among other things) - but as it stands this isn't going to end well for Microsoft. Windows 8 would have to get a lot better to expect anyone without a touchscreen to use it and enjoy it, and I wonder just how much better it can get between now and the RC.

Which is a shame, because there's a ton of other cool stuff in Win8 that deserves attention. Storage Spaces is Drive Extender on crack, the new task manager, resource usage, WDDM 1.2, class drivers, etc. It's a great OS, but then someone tried to bolt on a terrible UI.

Microsoft's people, especially Steven Sinofsky, have been saying for quite some time now that the Metro UI is not just a UI styling on top of Windows, but that it IS Windows. They didn't just stick it on top of Win7, they made it part of the OS and added the desktop functionality in on top.

Conceptually Microsoft is trying to throw out that idea, but looking at the OS itself, that explanation doesn't hold up. Trying to launch programs meant for Metro from the desktop returns an error stating that they're meant to be run from AppContainer (the sandbox Metro puts Metro applications in), which reflects the fact that Metro is a runtime environment on top of Windows, while the desktop fundamentally is Windows.

 

[WelshBloke]

There's a lot to list.

Storage Spaces
Refresh My PC
Skydrive integration that works much like iCould, but you get 5 times more storage and a LOT more features
Sync settings between multiple PC's
New Task Manager
Advanced Start up

off the top of my head.

If you wouldn't mind could you give me a quick run down of what the first two involve?

 

[BD2003]

If you wouldn't mind could you give me a quick run down of what the first two involve?

Storage spaces is disk pooling that lets you use a bunch of hard drives as one big storage pool. It's got lots of advanced data integrity features, really neat stuff, but feels more at home in a server than a typical desktop.

Refresh my PC is a quick and easy way to basically reinstall windows to make it run fast again, with or without keeping your personal data intact. Nothing terribly exciting, kind of there to solve a problem that ideally shouldn't exist in the first place.

 

[BD2003]

If I put aside that metro exists in win 8, and presume that they have no intention of actually doing away with the desktop for good...I still just don't think there's enough there in Win 8 for desktop users. They spent nearly all their time and energy on the part of the OS that I have zero interest in.

The most baffling thing to me is that the windows store only sells metro apps. I've been waiting since forever for a decent application distribution system built into windows, and they just completely blew it.

Until they start showing the desktop some respect I'm going to continue to assume they're no longer interested in me as a customer.

 

[beginner99]

Thinking of trying this out on my eepc T91, which has a touchscreen and I don't use it anymore anyway.

IMHO the real WTF about Metro vs desktop is, that if the OS would be designed properly, they could use the same OS core for mobile and desktop and just replace the UI in the according version. Or am i missing something?

 

[WelshBloke]

Storage spaces is disk pooling that lets you use a bunch of hard drives as one big storage pool. It's got lots of advanced data integrity features, really neat stuff, but feels more at home in a server than a typical desktop.

...

Didn't they just remove that from WHS?

 

[boochi]

I will pass on Windows 8 in its current form. It is not suited to a desktop environment. Just give me SP2 for Windows 7 and I will be happy.

 

[mirandu04]

I will pass on Windows 8 in its current form. It is not suited to a desktop environment. Just give me SP2 for Windows 7 and I will be happy.

you speak only what i was going to say gg

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

MS could avoid a real mess here if they would just
1. bring back the Start menu
2. run Metro/apps in a window

Lord I can't believe I just typed that. WTF was MS thinking? "Hey, lets bring all the limitations of a tablet to the Desktop, it will be awesome."

 

[BD2003]

Didn't they just remove that from WHS?

Yep. So assuming they make a WHS 3, it'll be back.

 

[WelshBloke]

Yep. So assuming they make a WHS 3, it'll be back.

Good. That's something that I have found very useful in my WHS. As you said though, I'm not sure how much need I'd have for it in a desktop OS.
I'm not seeing a lot that I would miss out on by skipping this OS.

 

[Jaskalas]

MS could avoid a real mess here if they would just
1. bring back the Start menu
2. run Metro/apps in a window

Lord I can't believe I just typed that. WTF was MS thinking? "Hey, lets bring all the limitations of a tablet to the Desktop, it will be awesome."

:awe: Sounds accurate. :thumbsup:

 

[nitromullet]

The most baffling thing to me is that the windows store only sells metro apps. I've been waiting since forever for a decent application distribution system built into windows, and they just completely blew it.

This is part of MS' problem. They imitate what other companies are doing in an attempt to gain a market that they don't have at the expense of alienating one they do.

One example of this is the Kinnect on Xbox. Xbox 360 has been the console of choice for what they refer to as 'hardcore' gamers for years, but they see the Wii doing well with casual gamers so they have to copy it as much as they can.

Same thing with Games for Windows Live and now the Store. They want to be Valve, Apple, and Amazon so badly that they designed one marketplace that only sells games and another that only sells Metro apps. All the while they're completely ignoring the potential to sell literally millions of apps that already exist for the Windows platform, from file managers to CAD programs and everything in between.

 

[blurredvision]

The most baffling thing to me is that the windows store only sells metro apps. I've been waiting since forever for a decent application distribution system built into windows, and they just completely blew it.

I agree with this 100%. They're missing a big opportunity here by trying to force everyone into Metro apps, which are fundamentally flawed with how we've interacted with programs for the past 20 years.

I've always considered myself a huge Microsoft fan and still root for them, but given my own testing with W8CP, I feel like they're completely misguided at this point.

 

[KeypoX]

If you run metro on a secondary monitor and use primary monitor as desktop. Its not that bad actually kinda cool addon. Still many problems and this multi monitor setup needs work too. With a single monitor metro is pretty useless to me.

 

[Dominato3r]

What happens when an arm windows 8 user goes in the store and can't use an app because its not metro?

The general public can't be trusted with these type of things.

 

[boochi]

I think all those Apple commercials that portrayed Windows as geeky and square struck a nerve and Microsoft wants to prove how MetroSexual it can be.

 

[BD2003]

What happens when an arm windows 8 user goes in the store and can't use an app because its not metro?

The general public can't be trusted with these type of things.

Since the app store presumably knows what architecture it's running on, it doesn't show the app at all.

Can ARM even run the win8 desktop? If so, then enforce that all apps in the store have to be both x86 and ARM compatible.

That's one of the neat things about app stores, it can handle stuff like this and enforce standards *without* confusing the consumer.

 

[Dominato3r]

Since the app store presumably knows what architecture it's running on, it doesn't show the app at all.

Can ARM even run the win8 desktop? If so, then enforce that all apps in the store have to be both x86 and ARM compatible.

That's one of the neat things about app stores, it can handle stuff like this and enforce standards *without* confusing the consumer.

All apps in the store can run on either architecture but there's been a lot of discussion on whether or not 3rd party applications can run on the desktop on arm. MS has been sorta side stepping the question but all signs point to no.

 

[gmaster456]

I think all those Apple commercials that portrayed Windows as geeky and square struck a nerve and Microsoft wants to prove how MetroSexual it can be.

The ones apple canceled shortly after windows 7 came out?

 

[AznAnarchy99]

This is part of MS' problem. They imitate what other companies are doing in an attempt to gain a market that they don't have at the expense of alienating one they do.

One example of this is the Kinnect on Xbox. Xbox 360 has been the console of choice for what they refer to as 'hardcore' gamers for years, but they see the Wii doing well with casual gamers so they have to copy it as much as they can.

Same thing with Games for Windows Live and now the Store. They want to be Valve, Apple, and Amazon so badly that they designed one marketplace that only sells games and another that only sells Metro apps. All the while they're completely ignoring the potential to sell literally millions of apps that already exist for the Windows platform, from file managers to CAD programs and everything in between.

Kinect is way better than what wii has.

 

[Muyoso]

All apps in the store can run on either architecture but there's been a lot of discussion on whether or not 3rd party applications can run on the desktop on arm. MS has been sorta side stepping the question but all signs point to no.

Speculation on that died days ago. No third party code on the desktop on arm.

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/ne...op-means-no-plugins-for-internet-explorer.ars

http://www.techradar.com/news/softw...ows-8-arm-desktop-no-third-party-apps-1062187

So essentially the desktop on ARM is useless. Its there so you can run office aaaaaaaaaand . . . . . . . . . mess with some deeper settings? This just shows how terrible Microsoft is as a company, and believe me I am a fan of theirs. They keep the desktop on ARM so that they have to do less work porting over settings and Office? What a Microsoft thing to do.

 

[Dominato3r]

Speculation on that died days ago. No third party code on the desktop on arm.

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/ne...op-means-no-plugins-for-internet-explorer.ars

http://www.techradar.com/news/softw...ows-8-arm-desktop-no-third-party-apps-1062187

So essentially the desktop on ARM is useless. Its there so you can run office aaaaaaaaaand . . . . . . . . . mess with some deeper settings? This just shows how terrible Microsoft is as a company, and believe me I am a fan of theirs. They keep the desktop on ARM so that they have to do less work porting over settings and Office? What a Microsoft thing to do.

Office as a whole is a lot more bigger and complex than Windows, I'd say it takes them one more refresh before it goes completely touch first. Still applications liek Excel that require a lot of shortcuts and macros would work better on a desktop setting.

If they can advance Word, PowerPoint and One Note to a touch first UI, that'd be enough I think for many consumers.

 

[gmaster456]

Office as a whole is a lot more bigger and complex than Windows, I'd say it takes them one more refresh before it goes completely touch first. Still applications liek Excel that require a lot of shortcuts and macros would work better on a desktop setting.

If they can advance Word, PowerPoint and One Note to a touch first UI, that'd be enough I think for many consumers.

A touch centric onenote might not actually be that bad if executed properly, and of there's an option to revert back to the desktop version if necessary.

 

[Infraction Jack]

Anyone know the there are drivers for the 7750 yet?