Windows Longhorn

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EeyoreX

Platinum Member
Oct 27, 2002
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Keep blabbing cleverhandle; it seems people tend to stick in groups. Morons with morons .... well you may get the point.

Yet again, there is nothing I have said that is untrue in the above post. Its just most people can't or don't want to face the truth of the matter, and instead spend their time sticking up for the underdogs. I don't understand why, but perhaps without you little brown nosers there would be no difference between the good and bad products, they would all be the same. I guess to you, complete choice is freedom. Like all the other Windows bashers; why? Because you can? Losers. Thats the problem with Linux, they've forgotten that with complete choice, they also lose their freedom of choice at the same time. Catch 22, but I guess you dorks are still stuck on the Linux buzz-word 'choice', not understanding that when you chose you also close out all other possibilities because infact you did chose. Idiots. What do you chose, ALSA or OSS? ALSA, because it is better than the age-old OSS. By having your freedom of choice, you're closing the choice of using OSS -even though, Its a good choice to leave behind OSS-. Again, you're all probably weening off the Linux = choice bandwagon.

So go ahead and crack open your beer ... just shows who you are.

Drag yet again goes on to post how Linux rulez and Windows drulez or however he would get around to spelling that.

Anyways, whatever you have to say
Go nuts
Dude. And someone once posted that I was a Champoin of Microsoft... Admittedly, I do tend to defend MS in some respects. Mostly from people like you that run around calling people who use Windows "losers" "idiots" and, my favorite "I haven't yet graduated the third grade insult", "dorks". People like you give other Windows users a bad rap. Like all fanatics do. A small subset of people makes the entire group look bad. You obviously don't like Linux. Fine. Neither do I (mostly because I have had a few runs of bad luck, not because I think it's "worse than Windows"). However I don't resort to calling people names. If people want to use Linux, cool. Everyone has different needs and wants and enjoys different things.

Windows is by far more advanced than Linux, Unix or any other OS.
Based on what? Are you aware that, AFAIK, there are more production Linux/Unix servers than Windows servers? I guess Windows ins't all that advanced for everything.
Windows doesn't reach 90% of the user-base because it sucks, and nobody supports it.
Yes everyone supports it. And, even I know that Windows grandfathered in, like someone already said. In fact, I think if Apple had opened up more, we would all be using Apple systems today, but that's another story.
Responsiveness, device support, proper filesystem, they added a .ko to kernel modules (haha), and generally made it run as smoooothly as windows.
When I tried Linux I found it incredibly responsive. I admit I had a video card that didn't work once. With some crappy Caldera distro, otherwise everything else worked. What is a "proper" file system? FAT? And heavens, no one has every complained about Windows being sluggish or slow. I haven't but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
They still havn't figured out how to package programs that don't have a million dependencies though; instead of including what you need in the installer .. and if it is already there, useing th elatest version of the file .. ALA Windows.
Right. Windows programs don't have a lot of dependancies. And no Windows user ever has had a problem with files being overwritten with older versions, right?
Trust me, I've come to love my SUSE 9 install; but XP and just wait for it .. Longhorn will/does far outshadow the silly infantile OS Linux.
I think I see something(one) that is infantile and silly here, but I'll not mention any names
Your inability to see that every OS has it's place and your thinking that Windows is the OS for everything is sorely misplaced. Can you run Windows XP off a floppy so it can perform as a simple router? Will Longhorn be able to run on a 486? Use the right tool (OS) for the job. Windows is not always the right tool... Even when it fits the bill as the right one, that doesn't always make it the best one either. Defend/support your product of choice. Don't be some manical fanatic that thinks your choice is the only choice.

\Dan
 

chorner

Member
Oct 29, 2003
134
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Well, nice try ... but :

TextNo, it reached that becaues it was around when there was no better alternative and now it's grandfathered in.

I guess just like Adobe Photoshop vs. Gimp right? Adobe is just grandfathered in because it was the best available at the time right?
People want the best. Developers usually develop what what they see 'best'; this usually coincides with what people want. Which is why most people still run Windows. There is NO other user-friendly, full-featured, and fully supported OS outside of Microsofts. For everyone but the enthusiasts, or companies wanting to setup a cheap server, Microsoft is the way to go at present. Why?

Lets list here :

1)
Extremely easy to install programs. Most people other than enthusiasts don't know, nor care what an RPM is, a source.tar or dependencies. They don't know or care what kernel version they are running, nor do they give two cents what version of X, nor having to sort through the small problems of each of the 50+ Linux distros just to install something. Could your mother find the latest version of gtk, or install the latest version of Kopete from source to IM her friends? No ... but she can sure as heck make her way through installing MSN messenger.

2)
Remember your first time installing Linux. Perhaps you dual-booted ... perhaps you might have been a little ansey with your first custom partition, installing Linux on the same drive as Windows? Oh, of course you would say no; but we all know what you really felt like. How about your first manual install; not knowing entirely what to do to get your network up and running? Sure is easy in every version of Windows since 95.

3)
Grandfathers are usually pretty wise. Atleast mine are. Perhaps this OS made it to being a grandfather for a reason : it survived. It still takes alot to make it and keep on growing such as Microsoft. Look at Apple. You would be a moron (well, actually I know you think you're not but you are) to ignore the true facts.


Responsiveness was always there. The preempt patches and O(1) scheduler only helped in extreme conditions with thousands of threads/processes or when extre.....

Right. I am in SUSE 9 at the moment, running along happily. Its funny how it doesn't seem all too snappy compared to XP. Firebird seems to take alot longer then IE to open, same with every other program. An hdparm -Tt /dev/hda gives me : 983 and 57.8 with an IBM deskstar 180GXP HDD, running on an Athlon Barton 3200+, 512MB ddr 400, A7N8X, GF4 4600 system. Glxgears gives me ~4200 fps and I could go on. Americas army, Quake3arena, and UT2003 run smoother than heck.

Why oh why then, are all the programs so unresponsive feeling? Nawww, it couldn't be Linux. I guess you're just blinded with denial. Little bit of help will cure that hopefully

You mean like windows apps that just include ever dll they might possibly need?

Exactly what I mean. Most Windows apps are installed from CD .... thats a new concept for you I suppose? I really don't see how it hurts to have what you need all in one place. I guess disorganization is a key player in your life.

YaSt2 is great, a step up. Even though my initial SUSE9 install forgot the Java dependency needed by OpenOffice, as well as when trying to get XINE and a host of other little apps installed. Still a dependency chase although getting much better admittedly, still FAR from acceptable for the average user.

It seems in Linux you spend as much time getting the programs you need to run to do work running, as you do actually DOING work. Windows I can just do it without hassle. Kind of like going from Photoshop, to Flash/Director, to DreamWeaver, to 3DsMax. Guess thats what a nice Windows emulator is for ... WINE? Garbage. Talk about instability; Linux and WINE is it.

Which brings me to another point .... CROSSOVER .... why does it take so long to get any half decent plugins without ruquiring an emulator to run them? As a matter of fact, there still aren't a handful of easily installable plugins, as well as a complete lack of for some without emulating the Windows plugins.


I'm confused, what did I lose when I chose not to use Windows?

Linux is just fine for somebody who doesn't mind not being on the bleeding edge of technology, ease of use, support, and kicking back and relaxing with some good old entertainment. Oh wait, Linux has some FPS games and Tuxracer and a million other 'shareware' 1.44mb floppy quality games ... hahahaha. Get real man, you can't really be serious?

Whats fine for you is fine for you I guess .... its funny how 4 of my buddies are all graduates of the Uni. of Waterloo (for those who don't know, its a very reputable University in Canada especially in terms of computer science degrees), who ALL program and ALL have no problem identifying Windows -as well as only using- as the far better OS. I guess one might be biased, as he's now a MS program manager. Another, a WAP programmer. Myself, a webdesigner -backend, and front-, although I like Linux and use it daily when not doing any work.

You don't lose much with Linux when you don't DO much to begin with other than fart around with computers, or require a cheap license free server.


Actually I chose OSS because it's emu10k1 support is more complete.

Dude, you're again full of it. I have an SB Audigy, and the OSS drivers sound like garbage comapred to OSS. Why on earth would the 2.6 kernel include built-in ALSA support, and not to mention the well-documented move towards ALSA?

Just goes to show how bright you are!

Anyways ... I'm off to play some AA in SUSE 9 ... chat at ya later.
 

chorner

Member
Oct 29, 2003
134
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EeyoreX,

Thats all fine ... and perhaps you're right; I tend to use lame names out of frustration. I'll admit; no biggey.

Other than that, Linux is fine. It has its place as noted from my posts. I was merely responding -while laughing- to Drags original post cutting down on Windows; as I know he likes to troll about Linux being better than Windows. Every post about Windows, the dude pops in his Linux rant or how Linux has this and that. Scroll up! Just look.

As for Windows being more advanced, you bet. Although booting off a floppy and running DHCP, DNS, Mail, or acting as a Router is great. It does NOT make Linux more advanced than Windows. It is awesome that you can do that, without doubt ... it has its place, but as for it being better than Windows as so stated by Drag and his buddies ... dream on.

Again, right now I am actually in SUSE9 .... everything works great; I really like it. Is it as good as Windows? No, but I enjoy using it .. I guess like I said earlier, because I can .... wow, I used my own punch line!

I know I said I was off to play some AA ... but the Anandtech forum was calling after refreshing the thread This is much more entertaining sadly.
 

chorner

Member
Oct 29, 2003
134
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p.s - NTFS vs. Unix'ish filesystems included with most Linux distros.

I think you forgot about permissions, low-level security and the like that NTFS offers.

You could argue that the fragmentation/journalism algorithms in ResierFS/ext3 are superior; but no fragmentation algorithmn is perfect which is why you need to defrag your disk perhaps once a year or so. Probably by that time most would forget about it anyhow. Thats the only area I can see that is 'superior' to NTFS. NTFS might have a bit more overhead, but the slow-down is non noticeable and by far a great trade off considering the security obtained through NTFS.

They still can't figure out how to properly write to NTFS without botching it sometimes even with Kernel 2.6 Microsoft must be doing something right.
 

GonzoDaGr8

Platinum Member
Apr 29, 2001
2,183
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There is NO other user-friendly, full-featured, and fully supported OS outside of Microsofts.
Hmm... Seems somebody hasn't spent very much(If any) time with OSX yet.
 

chorner

Member
Oct 29, 2003
134
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Admittedly not much, but what time I have spent didn't leave much of an impression past the initial "wow its so nice looking" and quickly died after that. Not to mention ... it is not 'fully' supported to the extent Windows is.

What version is OSX at now? 100.2.7.6 or something? I thought I heard Apple was dying somewhere ... don't know where I heard it though Microsoft has already infiltrated Apple anyhow. Soon it will be MS_OSX haha jokes.

 

Flatline

Golden Member
Jun 28, 2001
1,248
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They still can't figure out how to properly write to NTFS without botching it sometimes even with Kernel 2.6 Microsoft must be doing something right.

Let them open the source and see how long it takes to get writing to it perfected. As far as hardware support, I get really tired of hearing this - windows doesn't support as much hardware "out of the box" as most linux distros...you have to break out the cd's and spend quite a bit of time with driver installations to get it working properly.

Windows is NOT more advanced than linux, *BSD, or OSX, it just has a bigger market share and therefore the hardware manufacturers write software for it rather than for its competitors.

I have also grown rather tired of people saying that application support for things like photoshop and Microsoft Office are what keep them from moving to the linux platform when most of the people that I have known outside of the business world don't actually pay for that software (in other words, if you actually buy the software this does not in any way apply to you). The fact is, to get the same amount of functionality from a Windows box as you do from the major distros, you would have to spend hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars on third party applications. Compare that to a free download (or paying for distros and contributing to OSS projects like I do) and you can see where some of the advantages lie.
 

GonzoDaGr8

Platinum Member
Apr 29, 2001
2,183
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Admittedly not much, but what time I have spent didn't leave much of an impression past the initial "wow its so nice looking" and quickly died after that.
That one is obvious enough. How can you possibly talk sh!t about something you know nothing about? You can't.
it is not 'fully' supported to the extent Windows is.
Care to put a definition of "not fully supported" to that? You mean having 8 zillion sh!tty programs available for it? Except for most games, There isn't a damn thing that I can do in Windows that I can't do on a mac.
What version is OSX at now? 100.2.7.6 or something?
10.3 Panther for the uninformed.
I thought I heard Apple was dying somewhere ...
FUD spread around for years.
Microsoft has already infiltrated Apple anyhow.
MS(Gates), used to own a large chunk of Apple. Don't think so anymore though.
 

chorner

Member
Oct 29, 2003
134
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You're running an Apple G3 are you not?

Not fully supported ... do I really have to bust into this? A general statement hinting at :: The vast majority of apps come out for PC first, and leave Mac far in the dust. Same goes for hardware .. what it takes like uhhh an extra year or three for hardware and software to come out for the Mac that was available for the PC for a long time prior? With exception to your Adobe products I guess you guys are finally starting to like the fact you have video cards for Macs other than an ATI Rage 128?

That G4 was a real dud wasn't it. The new G5 is not without its original problems either ... not too bad, since it took how many years to release the successor to the cruddy G4? Talk about great support with Macs; where do you buy your parts from again?

As for OS updates, I'm quite surprised you don't have to pay an additional monthly fee of some rediculous amount to Apple in order to obtain updates from the apple.com site.

URU is a great game ... first game of its kind -to its extent to be more precise-, a real genre breaker. Guess you'll have fun playing it on your MAC ... or on your Linux box


 

Idoxash

Senior member
Apr 30, 2001
615
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Firstly there are things about Linux and Windows that I both love and hate. However, you say Linux works great with more hardware then Windows? It might work with more hardware but making the hardware run and making the hardware run great are differs. Sure Linux makes some of my hardware simply work but making them work great is a differ story. I would love to know why my Audigy 2 works however sounds like pure #### (ya know the word) and why my modem (3com hardware OEM modle) simply is not seen by Linux. It was seen and worked perfectly in Mandrake 8.1 however stoped working in Mandrake 9.0, 9.1, 9.2, Redhat 8.0, 9.0, Slackware 9. something. Also funny thing is the only way I can get it to dial out is to open the MDK control panel and use the Network configure tools. I would love to know why my DVD rom is slow, why my CDROM slows down and stalls out on huge copy overs, why my CD wirter (It's a HP model) simply does not funtrion right, why my CDROMs get's lost on my system and I have to reinstall them. I can't even copy music off my CDs because all the cd copy software I try but one sucks and dun work. The list goes on and on ~~~ simply put Linux is ok for some things but it's no desktop like they been trying to say for the last few years. I dun see Linux becoming a desktop OS for many years. As long as it's unorganized and not so bloated it will never amount to much of anything but thrown together code. Windows is simply better for me I would say while I try to make Linux bette for me it dun work out. Maybe someday I can install Linux and it will simply just work like Windows. I'm not saying Windows is better for you guys just saying it is for me. Anyways Windows XP has never crashed or messed up for me and heck I love the audio I get with my Audigy 2 ~~~ it's a shame I can't get that from Linux but then what can you get from it but stress and headachs.

--Idoxash
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
8,708
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Originally posted by: cleverhandle
Originally posted by: chorner
Sorry to turn it into a 'Drag war' but the dude bugs me, and I rarely ever post on here or read the forum
Well, gosh... that would explain why you can't distinguish those who contribute valid information based on research and experience from those who live in their own little delusional world where facts equate to whatever they feel like saying.

Ooh! Ooh! Does this get to become another thread like the one from a couple months back where you keep running your mouth and we all laugh at you for 100's of posts. `Cause that was fun. I'm ready... time to crack open a beer, sit back, and let the good times roll!

Well what does that make me? Delusional?

Probably sometimes... I can't help it, I get bored at work and am very stubborn and opinionated. But I don't think people who use windows are morons. For my uses Linux is the best OS for me, but other people don't like to mess around with computers so much. That's why we have windows and macs. Most of my freinds are windows users and I do help them out when things screw up.

But when people bitch and moan about how Microsoft is f*ked up and they are tired of the activation BS and so on a so forth. I just have to remind them that they are more then likely volenteering for that abuse.

Most of my time spent in these forums is trying to actually help people out, even windows users. That's what I like to do.

I've used and owned Dos-only machines, win95, win98, win98se, winME, win2k, win2k server, win2k advanced server, win2k database server, screwed around with w2k3, and windows XP. (all of them after win98 were perfectly legal copies, too) And I will probably mess around with longhorn if I get bored enough or a day off from work or something. I am going to get a laptop pretty soon and I think I will dual boot w2k3 with it.I've also administrated OS X machines, learned to make art on OS 9 machines. I've played around with OpenBSD, and very limited experiance with FreeBSD. At work I use terminals running on a IBM mainframe.

Debian is what suits me best, though. I have my choice from any OS or any hardware I feel like, there is no resentment against any windows users or anybody with nicer hardware then me.

When I ask questions in a forum or a thread like this, even though I am extremely skeptical about anything coming from MS, I seriously want someone to answer to me. I want to know what sort of new technologies are aviable in longhorn, and when it seems like the beta is mostly traditional NT OS like w2k or XP with some extra libraries for new API's and a couple extra beta programs, then I am going to say so and want to find out if I am right or not.

If I am wrong then I welcome anybody to correct me.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
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guess just like Adobe Photoshop vs. Gimp right? Adobe is just grandfathered in because it was the best available at the time right?

The GIMP does everything I need but I don't profess it as a Photoshop replacement, atleast not until CMYK support is better.

People want the best.

People want the easiest and Windows is the easiest because everyone else has it.

Extremely easy to install programs

RedCarpet, apt, etc all handle that for you. If you're not using them it's not my fault.

Sure is easy in every version of Windows since 95.

No it's not, I know many people who could never install Windows or Linux. And this argument is irrelevant because Windows comes preinstalled so they never have to try. As Linux becomes more popular it'll be easier to get pre-installed Linux boxes too, until then they'll have to rely on having someone around who can help them just as they would with Windows.

Grandfathers are usually pretty wise. Atleast mine are. Perhaps this OS made it to being a grandfather for a reason : it survived. It still takes alot to make it and keep on growing such as Microsoft. Look at Apple. You would be a moron (well, actually I know you think you're not but you are) to ignore the true facts.

Huh? Linux is just as old as NT (the only good line of Windows) and it's built on older ideas, your argument is backwards.

Why oh why then, are all the programs so unresponsive feeling? Nawww, it couldn't be Linux. I guess you're just blinded with denial. Little bit of help will cure that hopefully

I would blame you before the software, all my systems are plenty snappy.

Most Windows apps are installed from CD .... thats a new concept for you I suppose?

It's not new, but it is really annoying. Even for the windows apps we use at work we put the media on the network because it's a PITA to carry around and keep track of CDs.

I really don't see how it hurts to have what you need all in one place. I guess disorganization is a key player in your life.

Everything I need is in one central place and is installable via 1 command. And to top it off it's all free, much simpler than having to drive to BestBuy or search Tucows for the shareware with the least limitations.

YaSt2 is great, a step up. Even though my initial SUSE9 install forgot the Java dependency needed by OpenOffice, as well as when trying to get XINE and a host of other little apps installed. Still a dependency chase although getting much better admittedly, still FAR from acceptable for the average user.

Sounds like either SuSe needs a little work or you screwed it up somehow. I have never had apt 'forget' a dependency and just about everything 'just works' for me.

It seems in Linux you spend as much time getting the programs you need to run to do work running, as you do actually DOING work

What seems and what is real are seperate things, I spend almost no time installing or setting up things. Even semi-complicated things like Apache+SSL are simple and work out of the box suitably for most people. I'm sorry if all this gives you so much trouble.

Which brings me to another point .... CROSSOVER .... why does it take so long to get any half decent plugins without ruquiring an emulator to run them?

Firstly, wine is not an emulator. Second do you have any idea how big the Win32 API is? Would you like the task of trying to implement, bug for bug, an API that's been in development for over a decade and which has very little documentation?

Linux is just fine for somebody who doesn't mind not being on the bleeding edge of technology, ease of use, support, and kicking back and relaxing with some good old entertainment

Not on the bleeding edge? I don't claim to want to beta test anything but I have a DVD-+RW drive that works, a GF4 that has full 3D support, all my USB devices work, I have SCSI160 and ATA-133 drives. What am I missing?

Oh wait, Linux has some FPS games and Tuxracer and a million other 'shareware' 1.44mb floppy quality games ... hahahaha. Get real man, you can't really be serious?

If games are all I'm missing I'm happy as is. I don't play Tuxracer, only q3 once in a while but I will be playing DoomIII when it's released. The only game I wish was ported that wasn't is Worms World Party, but I only play that at work and it's easy to grab a spare machine for that. All the games I've seen lately pretty much suck or are just rehashes of older games, nothing has compelled me to install Windows in years.

its funny how 4 of my buddies are all graduates of the Uni. of Waterloo (for those who don't know, its a very reputable University in Canada especially in terms of computer science degrees),

Ah, you're canadian. That says a lot.

who ALL program and ALL have no problem identifying Windows -as well as only using- as the far better OS

My company has a few departments that sell software and I can tell you from experience that most of the developers havn't a clue how to use the OS they're programming for. Most of the time they just know the spec they're programming to and don't pay attention to anything else, the underlying OS is irrelevant.

And on top of that one of our bigger departments is porting their software to Linux because of customer demand, they don't want to pay the prices for things like Oracle, commercial Unix, WebLogic or Windows even in certain circumstances. Infact all of our departments have begun looking at Linux for different things, some more than others.

You don't lose much with Linux when you don't DO much to begin with other than fart around with computers, or require a cheap license free server.

If you consider making a living off of them 'farting around' I guess that would be accurate.

Dude, you're again full of it. I have an SB Audigy, and the OSS drivers sound like garbage comapred to OSS

Care to form a sentence that makes sense?

Why on earth would the 2.6 kernel include built-in ALSA support, and not to mention the well-documented move towards ALSA?

I believe the API is cleaner, but it's also a bigger PITA to configure. Also a nice little bug is that if I have a recording program open using the mic and try to play q3, q3 blocks waiting for the device to become freed with ALSA but with OSS it all 'just works'. I'm sure I'll move to ALSA eventually, but OSS will be in the kernel for atleast 2.6 so I'm in no hurry. Once again Linux gives me a choice in the matter.

I think you forgot about permissions, low-level security and the like that NTFS offers.

No, I just left it out because they all support it so I figured it was irrelvant. ACLs have been available on Linux for years, but most people don't care because they're only necessary in corner cases and they tend to cause extra management overhead.

You could argue that the fragmentation/journalism algorithms in ResierFS/ext3 are superior; but no fragmentation algorithmn is perfect which is why you need to defrag your disk perhaps once a year or so.

I use XFS and I have never defragged any of the filesystems.

My root filesystem:
xfs_db -r -c frag /dev/sda5
actual 306634, ideal 282676, fragmentation factor 7.81%

Not exactly terrible for 3+ years of use, eh?

And on top of that defragmenting a filesystem is largely irrlevant, large sequential accesses to files are very uncommon and the only people it really matters for are doing things like video or audio processing.

Thats the only area I can see that is 'superior' to NTFS.

NTFS is one of the things MS has doing for them, seems appropriate that they originally licensed it from someone else.

They still can't figure out how to properly write to NTFS without botching it sometimes even with Kernel 2.6 Microsoft must be doing something right.

MS is doing something right but not documenting their technology? I guess things like that coming from you shouldn't surprise me any more.

I still don't understand what you mean by 'more advanced', all your arguments talk about software support but how does that constitute advancement?
 

chorner

Member
Oct 29, 2003
134
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Well, atleast I know now you're seemingly a nice guy and trying to help others for whatever that is worth. We'll leave it at that

I must not that I just activated last week as I bought a new HDD/mobo/cpu and needed to reinstall/reactivate and I guess I had changed too many piece of hardware (lol) for their liking; but you know what? MS activation is great, and is actually kind of cool!

You phone their 800 number, and go through an automated process ... ENTIRELY automated process.

Just to show how easy and fool proof it is these are the steps :

1)Call the 800 number.
2)Enter the selection for XP activation (i think its 2? can't remember exactly)
3)An automated voice asks you to read your product ID code, 1 section at a time (completely automated, all done with voice recognition).
4)They give you your new product ID, hit ok and you're now activated.

Nobody to talk to, no fuss .. took me a whole 5 minutes.

The only ones who bitch about activation are ones who a) have a pirated copy, or b) bitch for the sake of bitching about MS without ever having used the phone-in feature once they used up their 4 re-installs or c) all of the above.

Its really not so difficult

Anyhow, I must also note its funny how there is also your separate war .. between FreeBSD users and Linux users. FreeBSD users will swear it is miles better then Linux. I might have to agree just based on what I have read (although never used) merely on the fact that it is based upon a single source of distribution, unlike Linux. Still no Windows XP though

Ever tried Windows Small Business Server? If you havn't ... go nuts, best server OS yet.
 

Idoxash

Senior member
Apr 30, 2001
615
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" Why oh why then, are all the programs so unresponsive feeling? Nawww, it couldn't be Linux. I guess you're just blinded with denial. Little bit of help will cure that hopefully"

To be honest about that Linux + KDE 3.1.4 (useing the KDE programes) Is dang fast on my system. Far more responsive then anything I seen in Windows or past KDE/GNOME systems. However I notice on some 3rd party programes mainly mozilla it showes me just how slugish a system can get. When useing Linux with KDE I use Konquerer due to it being very responsive. Anyways as I sed before I try my best to love Linux for what it is and in ways it's really great system but it falls really short on hardware and that along does not make it a good thing to use for my self.

--Idoxash
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
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0
Mozilla is always slower than the rest of the apps because it uses XUL for it's UI, they abstracted it so much so that it would be 100% consistent on all platforms they support. Firebird is faster than Mozilla, but on Linux I prefer Galeon. It's a GTK browser that uses the Mozilla engine.

Idoxash if you need help getting some hardware working start a new thread, if you havn't already, the signal to noise in here will bury it.
 

chorner

Member
Oct 29, 2003
134
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0
Nothinman .... you can do EVERYTHING you just mentioned in your last post in Windows, easier, and faster.

It is called a NETWORK INSTALL. Windows can do this .... has been able to for a long time now. You don't need to carry around a bunch of CD's while working at your co-location facility, or office ... whever it is you think you need ot haul around your CD's. You can even share your CD-rom drive with the CD in it and install over the network that way; not too bright are you?

Alsa - thats your aRts soundserver getting in the way, not ALSA. I had that problem with Quake3, and I figured out I had to stop the aRts soundserver or I would get a /dev/sound is busy error just like you experienced. I disabled the aRts sound server, and haven't looked back since. OSS sound quality is garbage. Also I guess the mere fact that companies are barely willing to write drivers for their own products under Linux doesn't say anything to you does it?

"I still don't understand what you mean by 'more advanced', all your arguments talk about software support but how does that constitute advancement? "

Though support, brings new technology. Aka, advancement. I guess you're bright, and knew that already?

As for NTFS vs. Linux FS's security .... not until the 2.6kernel has more 'Window'ish' filesystem and user management options been available. They are moving away from the 'root'/'superuser' account type system to become more like how Windows handles users and permissions. Don't believe me though, go read the kernel dev. docs, I'm not going to bother explaining.

Gimp .... plain sucks. The user interface looks like its been throw together by about 50 different people, all at different times of the day. Very awkward.

As for your grandfather statement ... well then, I think you've been fooled accidentally by your own statement. If Linux has been around just as long as Windows ... and could also be considered a 'grandfather' .... uhhhh, wheres the support and features!? I thought Windows was considered a grandfather, and as such has the following because it has been permanetly embedded into use as your 'grandfather' statement would mean to hint? Why then is Linux not as widely used? Wow, you really made a great comment on that accord, skip

Nothinman ... you are just what your nickname implies.
 

Idoxash

Senior member
Apr 30, 2001
615
0
0
Thanks for the advice, Nothinman, but I already asked for help on my issues on Anandtech and a few other places. Never got any help or advice back thoe ~~~ It's ok thoe I'm learning more about Linux trying to fix these issues my self but it takes so much time out of an already bussy day. I'm hoping the 2.6.1 kernel fixes some my Linux issues whenever I can get a copy from MDK as soon as they can put a version of it OUT. At least I can't find one on their site or their update tool.

--Idoxash

PS) I edited my first post to make it more understandable ...
 

chorner

Member
Oct 29, 2003
134
0
0
Firebird is faster .. I'm using it at the moment. It just seems to have this problem of making webpages layouts look ugly because they're all designed with IE in mind

KDE is smooth ... I'm in it now. Not as smooth as XP still ... I can reboot and doubt check if you'd like hahaha, and it'd only take me 30seconds to be on XP's desktop vs. 2x that to get into SuSe.

 

Idoxash

Senior member
Apr 30, 2001
615
0
0
I've notice sometimes KDE and GNOME will slow a lill bit and a restart seems to fix that. I herd KDE 3.2 beta 2 is far faster thoe. Got that info off osnews.com if any of you dudes care to check it out.

--Idoxash
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
t is called a NETWORK INSTALL. Windows can do this .... has been able to for a long time now. You don't need to carry around a bunch of CD's while working at your co-location facility, or office ... whever it is you think you need ot haul around your CD's. You can even share your CD-rom drive with the CD in it and install over the network that way; not too bright are you?

Your reading comprehension leaves a lot to be desired. I said that we do that even for our Windows boxes where I work, but for me with Linux it has added benefits that all the software is easily installable via apt and it's all totally free.

Alsa - thats your aRts soundserver getting in the way, not ALSA.

I don't use aRTs or esd, the emu10k1 does hardware mixing so there's no need. It's an ALSA problem, I found a workaround but I don't feel like making a special case for ALSA since OSS works for me with no extra work.

Also I guess the mere fact that companies are barely willing to write drivers for their own products under Linux doesn't say anything to you does it?

I could care less who writes the drivers as long as they work and the emu10k1 drivers were done by Creative at the beginning, but they've been taken over by the community. I don't know if anyone from Creative still works on them, I don't follow their development as they 'just work' for me.

Though support, brings new technology. Aka, advancement. I guess you're bright, and knew that already?

I do know what advanced means, my point was that you use the word a lot but never explain why you consider Windows more advanced.

As for NTFS vs. Linux FS's security .... not until the 2.6kernel has more 'Window'ish' filesystem and user management options been available

Windows-ish? Huh? If you're talking about ACLs just say it and then realize that Windows wasn't the first to have them and that they're not terribly usefull in 99% of situations. And yes they have been available before 2.6, XFS from SGI has had them for a few years now and there were patches for ext2 and even one for NetWare style trustees.

They are moving away from the 'root'/'superuser' account type system to become more like how Windows handles users and permissions. Don't believe me though, go read the kernel dev. docs, I'm not going to bother explaining.

Perhaps you mean POSIX capabilities? There will always be an option for 'root is good' if you want, but if you want MAC security you can get the SELinux stuff and restrict even root. Once again it's all about choices =)

And I'm subscribed to lkml, if you have a specific thread to refer to please do.

As for your grandfather statement ... well then, I think you've been fooled accidentally by your own statement.

Do you know what "grandfathered in" means? Maybe it's a US-only phrase and I never realized it.

Gimp .... plain sucks. The user interface looks like its been throw together by about 50 different people, all at different times of the day. Very awkward.

The UI is personal preferance, I know people who hate Photoshop's interface too but it's still considered great. And IMO Gimp looks like Photoshop minus the parent MDI window so I'm not sure what you don't like that you find so great in Photoshop.

I'm still having trouble making sense of most of your post, could you try proof-reading it next time?

Thanks for the advice, Nothinman, but I already asked for help on my issues on Anandtech and a few other places. Never got any help or advice back thoe

I have a SBLive and it sounds fine with emu10k1 driver, I don't know if the Audigy 2 support is worse or what. Have you tried turning off the boost with emu-config?
 

Idoxash

Senior member
Apr 30, 2001
615
0
0
"I have a SBLive and it sounds fine with emu10k1 driver, I don't know if the Audigy 2 support is worse or what. Have you tried turning off the boost with emu-config?"

Yah my SB128 sounds really good in Linux but hey it's so many years old now, lol. Audigy 2 support is not that great I dun think I was told thoe in the upcoming 2.6.1 kernel it's to be much better but who knows. I hear a lot of things and dun seem to be true. I never poked around in the "emu-config" stuff so no dun know anything about the boost. Tell me where the emu-config is located at and I check it out.

Also if you want a example of how it sounds it's very dull and not so clear on some of the highs. You could say it has to much LOW mix into it. Useing XMMS I the =lizer does not work for me and I can't find anywhere to use my hardware mixing abilites. That's if Audigy 2 has hardware mixing and that much I don't know.

--Idoxash
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
Yah my SB128 sounds really good in Linux but hey it's so many years old now, lol

So what if it's old? It works, right? I'm using an original SBLive Value because it was cheap and it works well, maybe if I needed 5.1 sound or something I'd replace it but otherwise I can't see a reason to upgrade.

emu-config is a program, I got the source from http://sourceforge.net/projects/emu10k1/ . It's worth a try.
 

Idoxash

Senior member
Apr 30, 2001
615
0
0
Yah it does work and sound dang good but then again I payed 80 dollars for my Audigy 2 and it's kinda crazy to just let it lay there in a pile of other computer componets. My Yamah XG also works great with linux. Thanks for the LINK I check it out as soon as my download is finsh.

--Idoxash
 

chorner

Member
Oct 29, 2003
134
0
0
Well I'm Canadian, so you may be right on the fact that I don't exactly understand your meaning of being grandfathered in then ... although I figured you meant more along the lines of it being accepted as the 'old trustworthy and wise' standard of OS'es ... in which in compared to Linux, Windows is. Also why I was wondering how the heck you thought that statement was disfavouring, or shrugging off Windows as being less-than.

Anyways ... sorry for the trouble reading I don't bother to proof-read posts on forums. Also, you're right .. I misread your comments on CD installations. Whups, my bad.

However I have nothing more to add; except for the fact that the numbers don't lie. The Windows family of OS'es are better; perhaps not for everyone though.

The #1 reason companies are starting to take note of Linux is because of its price point. Thats the big push for Linux .... its cost effective. Nobody said it was better except for .. maybe you and a couple die-hard dudes who are all alike in thinking.

Should hear the -friendly- arguments I have/had with a couple Unix admins I know from my previous work place. All in good fun, but boy do they ever get fierce, and its always the Unix guys who start the bashing first lol. Windows users generally don't give a crud, because they have no need .. they just run whatever works, and is easy to get them up and running what they need to do. Unix junkies are a whole different gang ... they like to do work, so they can do work. Odd bunch

p.s- I just went through a lengthy compile, and config of the imwheel library so I can use all the buttons on my logitech MX500. Wow did that take forever, 120 lines later of writing, plus compiling the imwheel library .... when in Windows it works perfectly without having to even install outside drivers .... either that, or I just go to logitech.com and download the .exe, double click ... hit next a few times and voila!

Eat that you Linux babies hahaha

 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
Well I'm Canadian, so you may be right on the fact that I don't exactly understand your meaning of being grandfathered in then ... although I figured you meant more along the lines of it being accepted as the 'old trustworthy and wise' standard of OS'es

Here when you're grandfathered in it means you get added benefits from being early. For instance if you get a phone at $X dollars a month and they start charging new customers $X+5 a month you're grandfathered in at $X and they can't raise your rates unless your contract explicitly says they can. So what I meant is that Windows is popular because it was the only real choice back in the 386/486 days and that's just carried into the present because it's what people are used to. Also sort of how people call tissues Kleenexes even when they're not Kleenex brand tissues.

However I have nothing more to add; except for the fact that the numbers don't lie. The Windows family of OS'es are better; perhaps not for everyone though.

What numbers? If you go by simple installed base then by the same logic that makes McDonalds the best food in the world because they sell the most, right?

The #1 reason companies are starting to take note of Linux is because of its price point. Thats the big push for Linux .... its cost effective. Nobody said it was better except for .. maybe you and a couple die-hard dudes who are all alike in thinking.

Price point is a nice beginning, but it's also a great value because it's easy to migrate from unix to Linux. Migrating to/from Windows is hard unless you're already on Windows, which is why MS has had so little success vs places running things like Oracle on big unix boxes. Luckily for us Linux is in a very nice position to take those unix box's place instead of Windows. Then people also see they can run Linux on their development desktops for free, something that helps development tremendously and can't be done with unix.

If anything Windows is becoming more unix-like with the NTFS mount points and the eventual migration from drive letters, I wouldn't be surprised if LongHorn had a mount-point editor in the installer.

Should hear the -friendly- arguments I have/had with a couple Unix admins I know from my previous work place. All in good fun, but boy do they ever get fierce, and its always the Unix guys who start the bashing first lol

If it's anything like this I don't buy it, you started off calling people all kinds of names without making a real point.

Windows users generally don't give a crud, because they have no need .. they just run whatever works, and is easy to get them up and running what they need to do

I like how you equate "whatever works" with Windows, if you used whatever worked you'd have a much better understanding of Linux because you'd have to really know how it works to decide if it should be 'whatever works' in a given situation.

Unix junkies are a whole different gang ... they like to do work, so they can do work. Odd bunch

Our unix guys at work (I'm not one of them though) don't like to work, they admin the unix boxes because they don't like fighting with Windows software all day.

p.s- I just went through a lengthy compile, and config of the imwheel library so I can use all the buttons on my logitech MX500. Wow did that take forever, 120 lines later of writing, plus compiling the imwheel library .... when in Windows it works perfectly without having to even install outside drivers .... either that, or I just go to logitech.com and download the .exe, double click ... hit next a few times and voila!

If it's that big of a deal for you, not that I've ever had to compile anything to get my mouse buttons to work, why don't you email Logitech support and ask why they don't support Linux? You can't expect things to get better if you all do you is nothing.
 
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