Windows Phone 8 Announcement

[Ryaxnb]

That's how software development works in every single mobile platform. An app that targets ICS will not run on Gingerbread. An app that targets iOS 4 will not run on iOS 3. An app that targets WP7.5 will not run on WP7.

If a developer wants to take advantages of something that is WP8-only, obviously it will only run on devices with WP8. However, if they don't need that functionality, they can just target Mango and it will work on both. I imagine it will be simple enough to have a version for both, as well.

This is sort of true, but Google regularly makes statically-linked SDK compatibility layers for Froyo and Gingerbread that add support for the latest API updates -- only the ones that are essential to making a modern app. The latest SDK compatibility API layer adds support for the most important ICS APIs to Froyo/GB and is used by Google's own apps amongst others. Apps that include it can call certain ICS API features and get either a port of the feature or a graceful fallback when ran on Froyo/GB.
OEMs can also backport the latest ICS code from individual ICS apps to earlier versions and so can enthusiasts. In particular, the Browser from ICS was widely ported to GB to enhance browser speed. The Galaxy S i9000 has a custom browser based somewhat on the later-generation browsers and thus faster and better than stock GB browser, despite running "gingerbread". Compare the i9000 (with 2.3.6) browser to the Nexus S with 2.3.7's browser and it's night and day.
As a testament to Google's commitment to maintaining API compatibility, most Google apps (all except Chrome Beta) still run on Froyo, GB, HC, and ICS using the SDK compatibility layer. Most of the apps that haven't been officially ported (e.g. the Keyboard) have been unofficially ported from the AOSP and do not make any calls to ICS APIs that would prevent them from working on Froyo/GB.

 

[VashHT]

Courtesy of Anand.

That's kind of disappointing, I was hoping they would use the s4 pro but I guess they wouldn't be able to make a fall launch if they waited for it. On gizmodo they were saying it's going to be a adreno 305, but I think they just pulled that info off of Qualcomm's site, it states the S4 plus can use up to the adreno 305.

 

[Deeko]

http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/21/3105474/htc-windows-phone-8-rio-accord-zenith

 

[Deeko]

This is sort of true, but Google regularly makes statically-linked SDK compatibility layers for Froyo and Gingerbread that add support for the latest API updates -- only the ones that are essential to making a modern app. The latest SDK compatibility API layer adds support for the most important ICS APIs to Froyo/GB and is used by Google's own apps amongst others. Apps that include it can call certain ICS API features and get either a port of the feature or a graceful fallback when ran on Froyo/GB.
OEMs can also backport the latest ICS code from individual ICS apps to earlier versions and so can enthusiasts. In particular, the Browser from ICS was widely ported to GB to enhance browser speed. The Galaxy S i9000 has a custom browser based somewhat on the later-generation browsers and thus faster and better than stock GB browser, despite running "gingerbread". Compare the i9000 (with 2.3.6) browser to the Nexus S with 2.3.7's browser and it's night and day.
As a testament to Google's commitment to maintaining API compatibility, most Google apps (all except Chrome Beta) still run on Froyo, GB, HC, and ICS using the SDK compatibility layer. Most of the apps that haven't been officially ported (e.g. the Keyboard) have been unofficially ported from the AOSP and do not make any calls to ICS APIs that would prevent them from working on Froyo/GB.

I have about a dozen apps across multiple platforms, I'm well aware of the process My point was that this statement everyone is freaking out about has been very misconstrued - its true of every platform, its not a unique thing here.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

I hope they have support for hardware other than S4, by Q4 it will be starting to show it's age, especially if Exynos 5250 shows up in the Note 2 later this year.

 

[s44]

So they're going to be six months behind on hardware... again. And the gap will only widen as real A15 cores begin to regularly trounce Krait.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Is there any reason they wouldn't be able to use better SOCs as they become available? Is WP8 going to be just like WP7 and only support one SOC, or will it be able to grow?

One of the biggest problems with WP7 is they forced phones to be stuck in the dark ages technologically. It would be like if Microsoft made Windows 7 so that it only supports the Core Solo and nothing else. Perhaps okay at initial release, but obsolete quick.

 

[WelshBloke]

I have about a dozen apps across multiple platforms, I'm well aware of the process My point was that this statement everyone is freaking out about has been very misconstrued - its true of every platform, its not a unique thing here.

Microsoft have shitcanned 3 full mobile OSs since Android has been around. Not OS updates like ICS but full OSs.

 

[Deeko]

Microsoft have shitcanned 3 full mobile OSs since Android has been around. Not OS updates like ICS but full OSs.

A) Unless you're counting the Kin, which no one bought or developed anything for, and was largely developed by a company they purchased, and never stated to be their core mobile platform to begin with, that's not true.
B) That is entirely irrelevant to the post you were replying to, which was about software development. Do you have anything to refute the point I made about that?

 

[s44]

WP8 isn't stuck to its launch SOC, but I believe Microsoft has indicated that they'll stick with Qualcomm. As we saw last generation, their not-quite-latest-gen CPU cores get old fast, and Qualcomm is always playing catchup in GPU power as well.

 

[WelshBloke]

A) Unless you're counting the Kin, which no one bought or developed anything for, and was largely developed by a company they purchased, and never stated to be their core mobile platform to begin with, that's not true.
B) That is entirely irrelevant to the post you were replying to, which was about software development. Do you have anything to refute the point I made about that?

I was counting the KIN OS, why not? Because of its market share? WPs not exactly shining there either.

My point was that its more of an issue with Microsoft because they keep chopping and changing every few years. Its not the way to build up trust, and they haven't been the most open or honest about their plans.

 

[Deeko]

I was counting the KIN OS, why not? Because of its market share? WPs not exactly shining there either.

My point was that its more of an issue with Microsoft because they keep chopping and changing every few years. Its not the way to build up trust, and they haven't been the most open or honest about their plans.

A) Again, I'll ask - you were quoting and replying to a post about software development, do you have anything to say about that?
B) Regarding trust, during the announcement yesterday they added carrier-free OTA updates in the future with a minimum 18 month support cycle, which is something no one - not them, Google, or Apple has provided, so far as I'm aware.

 

[WelshBloke]

A) Again, I'll ask - you were quoting and replying to a post about software development, do you have anything to say about that?
B) Regarding trust, during the announcement yesterday they added carrier-free OTA updates in the future with a minimum 18 month support cycle, which is something no one - not them, Google, or Apple has provided, so far as I'm aware.

A) Is it easier to develop for one constant OS or easier if the OS is scrapped every few years?
B) I no longer trust them to deliver this. Given their record why should I?

 

[Deeko]

The development environment between 7 and 8 has not changed, and every app on the market right now works in 8. People seem to be ignoring that. The inverse - new apps not working on the old platform - is the case with basically every version of every platform. Its not unique to Microsoft or this transition. For a high profile example - Chrome for Android does not work on anything prior to Android 4.0. This is not a new concept.

 

[ITHURTSWHENIP]

The vast majority of apps do not need native code. Are there high performance 3D games that will be WP8-only? Yes. However, the most popular games (Angry Birds, Fruit Ninja, the Zynga suite, etc) do not.

The vast majority of apps dont need native code. But few multiplatform developers want to spend extra resources porting games for a tiny userbase when native code is better and cheaper for them. The difference is that with WP7 they never had the choice to pick. Now they do

 

[AstroManLuca]

WP8 isn't stuck to its launch SOC, but I believe Microsoft has indicated that they'll stick with Qualcomm. As we saw last generation, their not-quite-latest-gen CPU cores get old fast, and Qualcomm is always playing catchup in GPU power as well.

Meh, it's good enough for the North American One X and Galaxy S III, which last I checked were the fastest phones on the market. Had they introduced WP8 much earlier to coincide when the S4 was brand new, it would have been better, but as long as the OS has room to grow it'll be fine.

I was counting the KIN OS, why not? Because of its market share? WPs not exactly shining there either.

My point was that its more of an issue with Microsoft because they keep chopping and changing every few years. Its not the way to build up trust, and they haven't been the most open or honest about their plans.

Presumably because Kin wasn't a smartphone OS, and there was no "ecosystem" to "buy into." Honestly I'm not sure what they were thinking with the Kin; it was a neat concept (smartphone-lite OS aimed at teens) but it didn't work thanks to the carriers insisting on requiring smartphone data plans. I still take your point though, imagine if MS had made WP7 right the first time around and could slowly phase out WP7 devices to make way for WP8 instead of the hard cutoff we're seeing now.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

Meh, it's good enough for the North American One X and Galaxy S III, which last I checked were the fastest phones on the market. Had they introduced WP8 much earlier to coincide when the S4 was brand new, it would have been better, but as long as the OS has room to grow it'll be fine.

The Snapdragon 8250 used in the original WP7 devices was also used in the Nexus One which was the fastest phone on the market when it was released. the problem is sticking with a fixed set of hardware is a losing battle when Android manufacturers are all adopting new tech very rapidly.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Meh, it's good enough for the North American One X and Galaxy S III, which last I checked were the fastest phones on the market.

Sure that SoC is good enough for phones released today, but by the time an actual WM8 phone is in the hands of an AT&T customer both the One X and SGS3 will be dinosaurs.

I really hope MS is not making the same mistake and we will learn soon that it will support multiple SoCs.

 

[finbarqs]

the only thing I want the CPU power for is games, benchmarks, and to tell people I have a bigger dick than they do...

 

[Deeko]

Sure that SoC is good enough for phones released today, but by the time an actual WM8 phone is in the hands of an AT&T customer both the One X and SGS3 will be dinosaurs.

I really hope MS is not making the same mistake and we will learn soon that it will support multiple SoCs.

Well, with WinRT seemingly taking other SoCs, and WP8 sharing that kernel, we'll see what happens. However, I think its a bit unfair to call the SGS3 a "dinosaur" this fall - it will be 3-4 months old, and while Samsung occasionally releases offshoots (like the Skyrocket or the GNex), they won't have a big release for another 9 months. I wouldn't be surprised if its the best selling Android phone when WP8 phones hit the shelf.

 

[ITHURTSWHENIP]

The Snapdragon 8250 used in the original WP7 devices was also used in the Nexus One which was the fastest phone on the market when it was released. the problem is sticking with a fixed set of hardware is a losing battle when Android manufacturers are all adopting new tech very rapidly.

I suspect the main reason they sticked to Qualcomm this year is because of their radios. I think thats why they will be able to launch in so many countries at the same time. With multiple SOCs that would create the whole Galaxy S2 issue with US operators getting their versions months later

Also a leaked roadmap from HTC suggests their WP8 flagship will be a quad-core so there is the chance of getting the latest SOC and not just the current S4

 

[Dominato3r]

NT kernel, same as the one in windows. They could very well add support for higher resolutions and hardware scenarios as they become available

 

[poofyhairguy]

Well, with WinRT seemingly taking other SoCs, and WP8 sharing that kernel, we'll see what happens.

MS has worked well with both AMD and Intel in the past, so there is a history.

However, I think its a bit unfair to call the SGS3 a "dinosaur" this fall - it will be 3-4 months old, and while Samsung occasionally releases offshoots (like the Skyrocket or the GNex), they won't have a big release for another 9 months.

If we were talking about the Exynos SGS3 sure, but the Adreno 225 is pretty much already behind.

Heck that was the big problem with the first set of WM7 phones IMHO- a weak GPU. The OS can hide a weak CPU, but games show a weak GPU. And they did it again if they are locked to the current S4.

 

[ITHURTSWHENIP]

"Finally, the big guns: "Zenith" is expected to have a 4.7-inch 720p Super LCD 2 with the same 8-megapixel sensor as the Accord, 42Mbps HSPA+, and an unnamed quad-core Qualcomm Snapdragon (it looks like the Zenith and Accord may share a similar relationship to the One X and One S at retail). All three devices are slated to ship this year, with Rio and Accord coming in October and Zenith launching sometime in the fourth quarter."

http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/21/3105474/htc-windows-phone-8-rio-accord-zenith

 

[WelshBloke]

"Finally, the big guns: "Zenith" is expected to have a 4.7-inch 720p Super LCD 2 with the same 8-megapixel sensor as the Accord, 42Mbps HSPA+, and an unnamed quad-core Qualcomm Snapdragon (it looks like the Zenith and Accord may share a similar relationship to the One X and One S at retail). All three devices are slated to ship this year, with Rio and Accord coming in October and Zenith launching sometime in the fourth quarter."

http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/21/3105474/htc-windows-phone-8-rio-accord-zenith

Zenith eh, it'll all be downhill after that.