Windows Update failures in the last six months: A Theory

[BonzaiDuck]

Windows 7 SP1 or Windows 7 with the ISO-download-install of SP1 has been a stellar operating system.

There are pointy-haired "Dilbert" managers in Microsoft now.

They're cutting the Windows Media Center and umbilicals for certain sets of licenses:

systems with only archival and 8-year-old BIOS or driver updates

or

downloaded, paid-OEM licenses

or

branded OEM licenses.

Now you can tell me I don't know S***. I'm just guessing. But if my theory has any of just a partial basis in reality, then I know one thing:

Microsoft . . . . has . . . . Pointy-Haired-Guy managers . . .

Of course, Win 7 has been around since .. '06? '07?

Or . . . maybe they're just telling certain users that they'll have to buy Win 10 if they wait?

I've never seen these problems with Win 7 before. This is something new, and there's statistical evidence (I'd be willing to go back again and tally forum talk) --- that it started around last September -- November.

 

[escrow4]

Install 10. 7 is old. Microsoft is only focusing on security updates for it. Anything else no. Since 10 has come out there have been a stack of updates that have more or less fixed anything twitchy. I've been using 10 since Day 1 and have had no issues.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Install 10. 7 is old. Microsoft is only focusing on security updates for it. Anything else no. Since 10 has come out there have been a stack of updates that have more or less fixed anything twitchy. I've been using 10 since Day 1 and have had no issues.

See, the way I'm going to do it, I have a potential of losing less. The old W7 branded OS includes an Office Pro 2003 -- all in working order. There are other software licenses that will install on alternately bootable OS installations. I can have both Win 7 on one boot disk, and win 10 on the other.

The way Win 7 is running right now with Updates turned off, it will be great once I get it turned back on. That's the new license and a download version. I will first attempt to do a clean or "bare metal" install of the Windows 10 ISO download on the branded OS. Both of those OS licenses are good for it. and I can probably fix the earlier branded OS install.

I had to go through the same misery with the new OS install.

The other thing I discovered: Win System Event Log was throwing ACPI Event 13 errors. Friend and retired electronics tech who does a lot with various laptops told me this was a problem from the "remanufactured" battery hardware -- which has an embedded controller.

I verified by searching the web, and this is confirmed. Those particular ACPI errors are benign and amount to nothing. The OS is querying the battery for certain information, and there's an identifier that isn't used in battery-charge and "hours" reporting. The OS and system are not getting back the required identifier.

Everybody who bought these used laptops had the same problem unless they are using an original battery.

 

[tidy]

.

 

[mikeymikec]

I've read the OP twice, and I'm still not following it.

Ditto. Win7 and Windows Update definitely has some issues (and not on all machines), but what the OP suggests doesn't make much sense to me.

Also, Win7 was released in Dec 2009.

 

[VirtualLarry]

The old W7 branded OS includes an Office Pro 2003 -- all in working order.

You do know that NO versions of Windows 7 include Office as part of the package, right?

Some branded OEM systems may pre-install Office on the HDD, and might also include Office in the re-install recovery media, but as a rule, Windows 7 itself does not include it.

If you downloaded a disc image from the internet, and it was Windows 7 with Office included, then it's pir8.

Edit: And, regarding the cryptic OP - are you trying to say, that MS is deleting Media Center off of certain Win7 licensed installations, via Windows Update? That makes NO sense.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Just yesterday, my Vista SP1 based laptop took maybe 4 or 5 hours just to check for updates (about fifteen had to be found, not some ~200). The very same laptop with the Windows 10 installed, update checks are done in maybe several seconds and definitely under 1 minute if it's a virgin install. Feel the difference!

Clearly, Microsoft want to save on support for the older OSes, annoying customers in the process. Don't want problems? Move to 10. I suspect, 8/8.1 will too follow suit eventually. You see, the support is still there, but I doubt EULA had anything to say about how "prompt" lol.

Maybe it's time just to ditch Windows as the main platform, and run it in VM instead with WU disabled. The amount of annoyances just keep growing and growing, lmao. Oh well

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Just yesterday, my Vista SP1 based laptop took maybe 4 or 5 hours just to check for updates (about fifteen had to be found, not some ~200). The very same laptop with the Windows 10 installed, update checks are done in maybe several seconds and definitely under 1 minute if it's a virgin install. Feel the difference!

Clearly, Microsoft want to save on support for the older OSes, annoying customers in the process. Don't want problems? Move to 10. I suspect, 8/8.1 will too follow suit eventually. You see, the support is still there, but I doubt EULA had anything to say about how "prompt" lol.

Maybe it's time just to ditch Windows as the main platform, and run it in VM instead with WU disabled. The amount of annoyances just keep growing and growing, lmao. Oh well

That's probably advisable if any updates are still available for anything older than Win 7. People are still getting updates to XP, probably because the Navy Department paid a few million dollars to get MS to extend support. Whatever critics might say, I can understand most of the scenarios which would make that feasible even for the Navy.

We've seen cases where someone's hardware was too old for a Win 10 makeover. We also can remember the OS history of improvement: Vista-64 was still a bloated slug compared to Win 7.

I've come to a tentative conclusion that Win 10 -- for the same hardware -- seems to run faster or respond more quickly than did Win 7.

I can see how I'll eventually phase out my Win 7 in the dual-boot systems I've established. It's either my imagination, or it could really be the case that there is some AI feature of Win 10 which takes note of your frantic searches and successes in finding things you expected to have at your fingertips with Win 7 and earlier. Sooner or later, you don't need to hunt through Win 10 dialogs and menus to uncover those features.

Back to the topic, though. I'm betting that all the troubles with WU will decline after the free Win 10 download is no longer free. What they lose in continued support costs for the old OS's, they'll gain back by actually selling Win 10 at the usual retail and OEM prices.

But if there's anything deliberate about falling down with Windows Update, it's still an underhanded tactic.

 

[mikeymikec]

@ Magic Carpet

Hold on, Vista SP1?? How long has it been since you last booted this computer? SP2 looks like it was released in 2009!

 

[ultimatebob]

I'm also starting to think that Microsoft is sandbagging Windows 7 updates as way to push people onto Windows 10. It shouldn't take over an hour to manually scan and check for updates, but that's what I'm seeing on a lot of the Windows 7 systems that I've been seeing lately.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of Quality Of Service rule on the Microsoft update servers that prioritized Windows 10 update requests over older versions. They know that if they make installing patches on fresh Windows 7 installs a major hassle, lazy IT people will start installing Windows 10 instead.

 

[MrTransistorm]

The only time WU is slow on my Windows 7 machines is on Patch Tuesday or immediately thereafter. It's not maxing out a core or thrashing the HDD/SDD. It's probably just waiting for the update servers to respond.

That said, even when it is running smoothly, it has never been as fast as it is in 8.1 and 10 IME.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

The only time WU is slow on my Windows 7 machines is on Patch Tuesday or immediately thereafter. It's not maxing out a core or thrashing the HDD/SDD. It's probably just waiting for the update servers to respond.

That said, even when it is running smoothly, it has never been as fast as it is in 8.1 and 10 IME.

It's all relative, but I can clarify.

On one hand, I have a 2700K clocked to 4.8 and rock-stable -- if I want to let it run with a turbo-voltage setting that pegs over 1.38 or 1.39V.

I have a Centrino C2D T8400 mobile processor in a 2007 laptop.

When WU was hogging some clock-cycles with one SVCHOST process on the Sandy Bridge, it would show 14% CPU usage. When it didn't work right on the laptop, the SVCHOST would peg at 53%.

Your average mainstreamer user who occasionally calls Geek Squad would notice the problem -- eventually -- with the laptop. He wouldn't likely pay much attention to the OC'd Sandy.

While I watch these things, fancy that I have much experience and some technical know-how, I only caught the Sandy Bridge system after some three or four months while I kept wondering why one CPU core would heat up to nearly 50C when this extended 14% CPU Usage was occurring. I hadn't checked Windows Update over all that time, and discovered that there'd been no successful updates later than mid-November, 2015.

The 14% wouldn't mean much to a mainstreamer, and it was the CPU fan kicking up which got my attention. But 53% CPU usage perpetually on that laptop?! Yes -- it's a slow old C2D processor and only dual-core. But for regular office work, it's simply great. It's great with either win 7 or Win 10(with better greatness.)

 

[Gunbuster]

"As of April 15, 2009, mainstream support is no longer available for Office 2003.
Extended support is now available for Office 2003, and will continue through April 8, 2014."

Just no, Office 2003 is over. Time to upgrade dude.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

"As of April 15, 2009, mainstream support is no longer available for Office 2003.
Extended support is now available for Office 2003, and will continue through April 8, 2014."

Just no, Office 2003 is over. Time to upgrade dude.

That may all be true. True!

But there are still downloads for DOCX compatibility. I've got 1 2PC licenses for Office 2010, a 1PC license for Office 2007, and another 1PC license for Office 2010. I want to keep a basic office suite running on all the household systems except for the server itself.

So this machine I have on the right side of my desk had Windows 7-64, is now a dual-boot Win7/Win10. It had been set up with my one remaining useable license that works under Windows 7: the 2003 version. And I remember when and how I got it: I was shopping at COSTCO in 2003, and they were selling a "Home and Student" license.

I just finished installing it on Windows 10. All works and is totally stellar.

If I "have to upgrade," I'll probably put it into my 2017 or 2018 personal budget.

I used to jump on every latest, greatest thing. Now I've come to see that if you just need a simple spreadsheet or Word processing, even those old versions offer about everything you could hope to use. Heck! I'm writing articles and a book with my first-drafts from Notepad!

 

[BonzaiDuck]

You do know that NO versions of Windows 7 include Office as part of the package, right?

Some branded OEM systems may pre-install Office on the HDD, and might also include Office in the re-install recovery media, but as a rule, Windows 7 itself does not include it.

If you downloaded a disc image from the internet, and it was Windows 7 with Office included, then it's pir8.

Edit: And, regarding the cryptic OP - are you trying to say, that MS is deleting Media Center off of certain Win7 licensed installations, via Windows Update? That makes NO sense.

You didn't mis-quote me, but I made an error in my statement. What I meant: My laptop had a Win 7 install with an Office 2003 installed separately. So -- sure -- I know you don't get an office suite bundled with the OS. I just wasn't clear enough.

The thing I've come to expect from M$: all of their old software versions continue working under later OS'es. That still seems to be the case, with Office 2003 running fine under Windows 10.

But they are all legitimate licenses, in plastic boxes with product keys. Why should I dump the old Office 2003, if it's legitimate, if it works under either Win 7 or Win 10 on the same machine, if I can write my book, send and receive e-mail with Outlook, plan my family's finances with Excel -- I'm not sure I care whether it's "latest and greatest."

And truth is -- I'm still uncomfortable with the notion of subscriber software.

 

[escrow4]

You didn't mis-quote me, but I made an error in my statement. What I meant: My laptop had a Win 7 install with an Office 2003 installed separately. So -- sure -- I know you don't get an office suite bundled with the OS. I just wasn't clear enough.

The thing I've come to expect from M$: all of their old software versions continue working under later OS'es. That still seems to be the case, with Office 2003 running fine under Windows 10.

But they are all legitimate licenses, in plastic boxes with product keys. Why should I dump the old Office 2003, if it's legitimate, if it works under either Win 7 or Win 10 on the same machine, if I can write my book, send and receive e-mail with Outlook, plan my family's finances with Excel -- I'm not sure I care whether it's "latest and greatest."

And truth is -- I'm still uncomfortable with the notion of subscriber software.

Sell those licences (if you can) and get Office 365 Home. 5 PCs constantly updated - just pay up. Can't see what is uncomfortable about that.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Sell those licences (if you can) and get Office 365 Home. 5 PCs constantly updated - just pay up. Can't see what is uncomfortable about that.

Hmmm. Interesting idea there. I'll give it some serious thought.

See --- on this matter of "the Cloud," web-accessible backup services, subscription software -- it just goes against my old attitudes. I first got interested in (we called them) "Micro-computers" because I wanted to do Box Jenkins Time Series analysis and other econometric stuff. Never figured or imagined an age of "selfies," "Weiner-shorts," Facebook etc.

So I hesitate on these "new things" until I feel personally sure what I'm getting into. I'll "get there" alright. I just don't want to jump in with both feet.

 

[Magic Carpet]

@ Magic Carpet

Hold on, Vista SP1?? How long has it been since you last booted this computer? SP2 looks like it was released in 2009!

Of course, I meant SP2. Sorry for the confusion.

BonzaiDuck,

I am aware about the Navy deal as well as Point of Sales devices. AFAIK, we can only get updates for the latter. (there is a PoS registry tweak, I believe it's supported until 2019). But it's not recommended, albeit, I haven't tried it personally, YMMV. About the former, you would have to establish your own channel in order get those updates, they aren't public. Again, you can still run XP SP3 perfectly fine even without updates, if you know what you are doing (firewall + nod32 / VM / and software restriction policy (SRP) configured properly), but of course, it's not recommended ^_^

Personally, I wouldn't use anything older than Vista SP2 for even web browsing duties, which works fine. I kinda like it (the same way I did like XP, a couple years ago). That classic desktop interface with classic start menu is something (98/2000 style), lmao. Still, I am amazed about Windows 10 and how fast it is. Microsoft has definitely made a lot of progress with it. So much in fact, that you sometimes question about whether or not this/that computer needs any hardware upgrades.