Windows Vista Rules.

[Doom Machine]

somehow, i doubt bashing windows with personal biased opinions will prompt anyone to switch. seems only fanboys try to point out only negatives of the alternatives and ignore else

i can find many things that suck about mac or linux and only mention those particulars while at the same time responding about its good partuculars and say its "been done" or give alternating concpetion of technicalities when in reality different os's will meet different user needs...most users dont care, thats why they buy dell or hp.

instead of complaining of vista's "bloat" or "price" for example, buy basic edition and fill it with 3rd party softs.
or use nlite and preload/remove/tweak the os to your exact needs rather than whine about it while claiming linux or mac is god incarnate since all os's at default out of box are unappealing to enthusiasts and therefore modified to various extents.

there are plenty of options or the option of not doing anything, this thread just shows how people like to find things to complain about.

 

[Nothinman]

somehow, i doubt bashing windows with personal biased opinions will prompt anyone to switch. seems only fanboys try to point out only negatives of the alternatives and ignore else

People are already looking to switch on their own, if they weren't we wouldn't be getting all of these "which distro" threads all of the time.

instead of complaining of vista's "bloat" or "price" for example, buy basic edition and fill it with 3rd party softs.
or use nlite and preload/remove/tweak the os to your exact needs rather than whine about it while claiming linux or mac is god incarnate since all os's at default out of box are unappealing to enthusiasts and therefore modified to various extents.

Or just skip Vista completely, I don't see a compelling reason to run Vista let alone go though all of that work to try and make it usable.

 

[InlineFive]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
Or just skip Vista completely, I don't see a compelling reason to run Vista let alone go though all of that work to try and make it usable.

That post doesn't support anyone's point of view. I could say the same about Linux.

 

[Nothinman]

That post doesn't support anyone's point of view. I could say the same about Linux.

Not really, there's the initial monetary cost of owning Vista first which is infinitely higher than Linux, you don't need a 3rd party tool like nlite to customize it and you don't have to spend hours installing software after the initial OS install.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

That post doesn't support anyone's point of view. I could say the same about Linux.

Not really, there's the initial monetary cost of owning Vista first which is infinitely higher than Linux, you don't need a 3rd party tool like nlite to customize it and you don't have to spend hours installing software after the initial OS install.

I can't say that I've ever spent hours installing apps after the initial OS install. Some like MS Office are fairly lengthy, but the rest go through pretty quick.

 

[Nothinman]

I can't say that I've ever spent hours installing apps after the initial OS install. Some like MS Office are fairly lengthy, but the rest go through pretty quick.

It was more of a guess than anything, finding and installing all of the stuff I use that's directly installable via apt would take a lot longer without apt. And when I put XP on this machine a few months ago it took a lot longer than I expected, the initial install itself took at least a half hour and I have no idea why and then I had to spend another half hour trying to find NIC drivers and get them on this machine somehow because it didn't support the hardware out of the box like it should.

 

[Tom]

After reading Paul Thurbott's detailed "review", I don't see why Vista Basic gets dissed so much ? I don't see what it's missing that matters ?

my other point is about pricing, specifically the Anytime price to go from Basic to Premium being $80.

The retail package price difference between them is $40. Some stores are now selling the oem versions, and there's a $20 price difference.

So why is the Anytime upgrade $80 ?

 

[Doom Machine]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

That post doesn't support anyone's point of view. I could say the same about Linux.

Not really, there's the initial monetary cost of owning Vista first which is infinitely higher than Linux, you don't need a 3rd party tool like nlite to customize it and you don't have to spend hours installing software after the initial OS install.

lol you proved my prvious post, your very one sided, your overdefensive of any negative highlits of linux, yet amplify negatives of vista and indifferntiate the positives.
i think everyone gets you like linux, it does what you want thats great...be happy, yet you dont seem happy, your awefully worried that vista exists apparantly.

basic edition is quite cheap and far from "infinitly" higher than say xandros or suse, both of which are more or less windows clones, without the official support of very many games, i cant think of anything i cant do in windows that i can only do with my xandros but i can think of many that i can do in xp that i cant in xandros..that says alot

 

[Nothinman]

lol you proved my prvious post, your very one sided,

Everyone's one sided to some extent, you'll never find someone who's used a piece of software and has no opinions about it, everyone is biased to some degree.

i think everyone gets you like linux, it does what you want thats great...be happy, yet you dont seem happy, your awefully worried that vista exists apparantly.

I'm not worried about Vista at all, infact if anything I'm hopeful that the bad press about the DRM, more extensive activation, stricter EULAs, etc will cause some people to reconsider whether they want to stick with Windows.

basic edition is quite cheap and far from "infinitly" higher than say xandros or suse, both of which are more or less windows clones

Xandros is the exception, just about every other commercial distribution has a free edition and in the SuSE department there is OpenSuSE. But if anyone actually cared about Xandros they could take the source code and build a free version of it like people do with RHEL->CentOS. And yes the basic KDE UI is a Windows clone, largely because that's what people are comfortable with so it makes the switch a little simpler. It's pretty funny, 10 years ago people were saying things like "If you ever want to get Windows users to use Linux you need to give it the same interface" and now it's turned into "Pfft, Linux is just a clone of Windows". It's a lose-lose situation.

i cant think of anything i cant do in windows that i can only do with my xandros but i can think of many that i can do in xp that i cant in xandros..that says alot

The only thing I can think of is play certain games and IMO that tradeoff is more than worth it. And I can come up with a few things that I can do in Linux that I can't in Windows, but you'll probably write them off as examples of things that 'normal' people don't want to do.

 

[Doom Machine]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
I can come up with a few things that I can do in Linux that I can't in Windows, but you'll probably write them off as examples of things that 'normal' people don't want to do.

since i usually refer to the vast majority then your likely right. most people would never make use of any advantage that opensource brings.

I'm not worried about Vista at all, infact if anything I'm hopeful that the bad press about the DRM, more extensive activation, stricter EULAs, etc will cause some people to reconsider whether they want to stick with Windows.

not really and feel free to quote me on that in 5 years when ms still has the most used os.

as i said only enthusiasts care, we learn it, we discuss it. average joe who buys a dell only cares about clicking an icon and doing what that app does while only educating themselves about wether dell has good support or not.

the others? they find ways through and around anything, however activation isnt extensive, you click activate...real hard. the eula, its exactly the same as xp only made clearer to understand with a few exeptions, after those exeptions mostly being your 1 transfer, you must call to activate like you do in xp, the average user would only have to do that maybe ever 2 years i believe is the average user upgrade, hobbiests who upgrade the average of 6 months make a 5 min phone call each time

drm? for one it was the media companies who forced through drm contracts and wont certify windows, however they will windvd/powerdvd..etc so you can play hidef on those players, ms has no control over that less they want to take full responsibility, the only bad press about it is usually the ignorant, ms got no real option on that, blame the big media companies.
now you have tpm/odm/pvp...tpm is used with bitlocker it protects data against security breaches, something no other os has or has a need for currently, but if osx became #1, we'd all see how vulnerable it truely is. drm is also allowed to be altered or unserviced by any programmer and without being illegal..how or why i dont know, either way its all trivial, peeps like you like to make a big deal of it as if theres no other option...but as alinux user you know about options right? same in windows and just as unclear to the naked eye as it is in linux

me? i only care about gaming, wine and cedega are useless, very arrogan to buy a $50 game and hope with tears that A: you get it to run, B: a bugfix patch even remotly works and C: that you can tell between an ingame bug or a compatability problem. D:constant realization that you dont have official support and is why most dualboot. for whichcase if you dualboot, then apparantly windows isnt that bad then is it and maybe why even novell refers to linux as an "alternative os" rather than upgrade or competing perhaps?

 

[Nothinman]

not really and feel free to quote me on that in 5 years when ms still has the most used os.

In only 5 years I don't doubt you'll be right, at least for desktop machines. But in the very long term when small, portable devices like the Nokia 770 are dominant, then Windows will have a problem.

average joe who buys a dell only cares about clicking an icon and doing what that app does while only educating themselves about wether dell has good support or not.

And they just use what they're given, they couldn't care less if it's Windows or Linux as long as it runs.

And contrary to popular belief Linux can do just about everything a home user would need. http://liw.iki.fi/liw/log/2007-01.html#20070124b

he others? they find ways through and around anything, however activation isnt extensive, you click activate...real hard. the eula, its exactly the same as xp only made clearer to understand with a few exeptions, after those exeptions mostly being your 1 transfer, you must call to activate like you do in xp, the average user would only have to do that maybe ever 2 years i believe is the average user upgrade, hobbiests who upgrade the average of 6 months make a 5 min phone call each time

But that also means that I can't run extra copies inside of VMs for any reason without buying more copies. I know that was also the case with XP, but it's still a PITA.

the only bad press about it is usually the ignorant, ms got no real option on that, blame the big media companies.

But it's still bad press and hopefully it causes people reevaluate their support of MS and the media companies.

now you have tpm/odm/pvp...tpm is used with bitlocker it protects data against security breaches, something no other os has or has a need for currently,

Actually I've been doing full drive encryption on Linux for a while now, it's actually quite easy and doesn't require a TPM chip. And it's easier to setup, it's just an option in the Debian installer.

but if osx became #1, we'd all see how vulnerable it truely is.

Why wait? These people are looking at it now, so what's stopping you? http://projects.info-pull.com/moab/index.html

 

[Doom Machine]

i think if just game publishers alone embraced linux with every game and if some company would really market a good distro which costs money and therefore couldnt be free and finally at least a company like dell would have to take another chance with linux then we would likely see a large turnaround and ms restructructirng alot of things. dell and hp tried linux on retail tests and failed, hard to say what it would take for them to try again.

 

[Eos]

Can anyone fix the
horizontal scroll on
this thread?

1600 wide isn't enough.

Sheesh...

 

[Nothinman]

i think if just game publishers alone embraced linux with every game

id and Epic have been releasing games on Linux for years but no one seems to follow their lead in this respect.

if some company would really market a good distro which costs money and therefore couldnt be free

Impossible, the GPL requires that you give the source code to anyone who you distribute your GPL software to so 99% of the distro would be available for free once one person buys it. They could write some custom software for it and not GPL that but that would have to be some really great software to compel people to buy it.

 

[Doom Machine]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

i think if just game publishers alone embraced linux with every game

id and Epic have been releasing games on Linux for years but no one seems to follow their lead in this respect.

if some company would really market a good distro which costs money and therefore couldnt be free

Impossible, the GPL requires that you give the source code to anyone who you distribute your GPL software to so 99% of the distro would be available for free once one person buys it. They could write some custom software for it and not GPL that but that would have to be some really great software to compel people to buy it.

as i was saying they would have to put alot of money into it and market it, therefore it couldnt be free, so they'll have to write all software,it wouldnt be easy to make software toe to toe with ms from scratch. maybe some kernal altering and hardening...well crap now you more or less have a vista..lol, go figure.

if devs dont follow your screwed,if you cant get retailers and pcmakers to follow your screwed, thats why ms will likely stay #1 for at least a good decade if not more and frankly despite a few negatives when it comes to a pure "out of box" experience, ms has everything home users want.

now apple has some market share, people know what thier about, almost everyone loves how thier hardware and software look aesthetically, they like the architecture/quality
perhaps if they opened up osx to pc hardware...maybe..hmmm.. but then again i doubt they have the $$billions to spend to make it very secure/stable and then on top of that how to get all those hundreds of hardware makers with thousands of hardware diferentials to provide proper driver support....oh wait, bill gates owns 13% of apple

then theres licensing issues, MS costs alot of bucks not just because they spent $6billion on it, but they had to license alot of stuff,even simpler stuff like communication between vista and xbox360 and other types of hardware has patents. they paid stardock to do dreamscene and aero..etc. if you want an all in one package fit to satisify the mass to any degree..your going to have negatives.
plus the pirateing didnt help any either....curse you pirates!

 

[Nothinman]

as i was saying they would have to put alot of money into it and market it, therefore it couldnt be free, so they'll have to write all software,it wouldnt be easy to make software toe to toe with ms from scratch. maybe some kernal altering and hardening...well crap now you more or less have a vista..lol, go figure.

All of what software? Linux already has everything it needs to support games, the problem is that game developers usually choose DirectX over OpenGL. And the Linux kernel is already "hard" enough, a proper SELinux policy would beat Vista in security any day, although SELinux is a huge PITA to configure.

now apple has some market share, people know what thier about, almost everyone loves how thier hardware and software look aesthetically, they like the architecture/quality

That's been true for as long as I can remember. Everyone's always talked about how easy and nice Macs are but at the same time they never wanted to pay the premium for the Apple hardware. The iPod has helped the Apple brand, but not enough to matter with regards to their PC sales IMO.

perhaps if they opened up osx to pc hardware...maybe..hmmm.. but then again i doubt they have the $$billions to spend to make it very secure/stable and then on top of that how to get all those hundreds of hardware makers with thousands of hardware diferentials to provide proper driver support....oh wait, bill gates owns 13% of apple

Opening OS X to non-Apple hardware would help very little. It would allow the pirates to dualboot in cheaper hardware but I really doubt any appreciable amount of people are going to rush out and buy OS X if it's licensing gets more liberal.

 

[WiseOldDude]

If I want some spyware in my system, I'll visit a porn sight and get it for free, I sure as hell ain't going to spend $200 for it, plus I'll get to watch some porn.

 

[Doom Machine]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

All of what software? Linux already has everything it needs to support games, the problem is that game developers usually choose DirectX over OpenGL. And the Linux kernel is already "hard" enough, a proper SELinux policy would beat Vista in security any day, although SELinux is a huge PITA to configure.

you didnt follow what i was saying. but security? linux has many exploits, vista has some bugs and just like any brand spanking new Linux distro when it is first released is just as buggy and inscure,e there are usually 20-30 updates i'd need to APT-GET or YUM to be completely stable and safe

and games...your right it is the problem..just another negative and why many prefer windows

That's been true for as long as I can remember. Everyone's always talked about how easy and nice Macs are but at the same time they never wanted to pay the premium for the Apple hardware. The iPod has helped the Apple brand, but not enough to matter with regards to their PC sales IMO.

apple does pretty decent for themselves even in computer sales, people seem to have no trouble paying more for their hardware just as they will with i-phone and it has not been true for as long as i remember...i'm 30, apple was once something, then nothing, hired back steve jobs and its something again, i recall hearing little of apple after the apple 2 computer

Opening OS X to non-Apple hardware would help very little. It would allow the pirates to dualboot in cheaper hardware but I really doubt any appreciable amount of people are going to rush out and buy OS X if it's licensing gets more liberal.

i couldnt disagree more, the pirates are always there everywhere regardless, lots of people want osx but again its lack of things like game developments and the pc hardware variety keep users away, plus apple cant handle pc hardware, even if they had the driver support, they dont have the money to keep it secure and stable nor the staff to make it so, it'll never happen

 

[wirednuts]

yes you need 64bit to have 4gb, and even then i think 8gb is max

i agree though, 2gb 32bit is still just fine for now. probably in two years or so we will want more ram, but i think the 32bit key works with the 64bit version too

vista absolutely smokes xp in speed. xp runs on slower hardware, but it doesnt utilize high-end gear. if you have 2gb ram and a dual core chip with a good grfx card, vista is the only way to go. might as well use the power you have if you have it

 

[Nothinman]

you didnt follow what i was saying.

And I still don't, you said "so they'll have to write all software,it wouldnt be easy to make software toe to toe with ms from scratch" but what software are you talking about? All of the software needed is already there, it's just the games themselves that just need ported/written.

apple does pretty decent for themselves even in computer sales, people seem to have no trouble paying more for their hardware just as they will with i-phone and it has not been true for as long as i remember...i'm 30, apple was once something, then nothing, hired back steve jobs and its something again, i recall hearing little of apple after the apple 2 computer

If a 3% userbase is decent then Linux is doing decent too.

lots of people want osx but again its lack of things like game developments

Exactly, it would be in the exact same situation that Linux is in, the only difference is that it would be closed source.

plus apple cant handle pc hardware, even if they had the driver support, they dont have the money to keep it secure and stable nor the staff to make it so, it'll never happen

MS doesn't keep drivers secure and stable, they leave that up to the 3rd party developers just like Apple would.

yes you need 64bit to have 4gb, and even then i think 8gb is max

Only if you have an OS that won't let you use PAE to address the memory, like Windows. And 8GB might be the max for the hardware, but it's not a software limit of 32-bit or 64-bit OSes.

if you have 2gb ram and a dual core chip with a good grfx card, vista is the only way to go. might as well use the power you have if you have it

I have 2GB of memory, a dual core chip and a decent video card and don't see Vista as necessary to use all of the power.

 

[Tom]

Question about switching to 64 bit.

Starting with a Retail Vista Home upgrade product, will I be able to install the 32 bit version, then sometime down the road, say 5 years from now, be able to switch to the 64 bit version ? assuming I order the 64 bit version disk now, I guess there's a coupon in the package ?, but don't use it until later.

Or would I have to purchase the whole package again ?

 

[Nothinman]

Starting with a Retail Vista Home upgrade product, will I be able to install the 32 bit version, then sometime down the road, say 5 years from now, be able to switch to the 64 bit version ? assuming I order the 64 bit version disk now, I guess there's a coupon in the package ?, but don't use it until later.

I think I just saw a thread that everything but Basic comes with a coupon for a 64-bit disc, you only get the disc in the box if you buy Ultimate. So yes you can switch later, but it won't be an upgrade, AFAIK you'll have to reload everything from scratch. If I were you I'd use the coupon to get the disc now, you never know if it'll expire or something.

 

[pctwo]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
I totally agree. I know that MS "tuned" their VM page-reaving algorithms for XP, and personally, I find that the ones in W2K seemed to be a bit more globally stable. I could leave apps running at night, and come back in the morning and they were immediately ready-to-go, not so with XP, it seems like it needed to page the world back in just to get things running again.

yep. this annoys me so much i set the pagefile to zero in xp. very unwise i know. i am now the windows memory manager

 

[Accipiter22]

why do all the F'ing posts in this forum not word wrap??? they just all come out on like 2 or 3 long lines and i have to scroll over to see whole posts

 

[EricMartello]

Don't argue with Nothinman, this guy is a genius. Not only can he read Wikipedia and execute multiple simulatneous searches on Google, but he has single handedly uncovered the truth about the defraggging conspiracy.

Do you Defrag? The joke's on you!

He's also keeping us all in check about the inherent uselessness of any computing > 32-bit. When he gets hired by AMD and Intel (yes, two jobs at the same time), he will push for core reductions to 4 and 8 bits, because anything above that is pretty much useless.

Nothinman is waging war on many fronts. You should all support him, because he knows and none of you know...the only thing that surpasses his post count is is IQ, which is so high that he need PaE to access all of it at once.