Windows Vista Rules.

Page 5 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

mechBgon

Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
Oct 31, 1999
30,699
1
0
Compare the cost per megabyte to Vista's requirement vs XP when it was released and Vista costs less to run than XP did.
Agreed. When I got my first Win2000 system, I was paying about $400 for 256MB of PC133. Today, I can get 1GB for $100 (without hunting for a Hot Deal). And I don't know the market breakdown, but I'd expect that most copies of Vista are going to be on brand-new off-the-shelf Happy Meal? computers sporting the necessary $100 worth of RAM.

Without Aero, Vista is just a glorified Windows XP SP3.
Yeah, it took Microsoft years and years of R&D to come up with... the Aero interface that turns WinXP into Vista. And then in the last two weeks they threw in all the other stuff like the services hardening, UAC, ASLR, the endless security audits, 2-way firewall, parental controls, the new network capabilities, zillions of additional Group Policy features implemented in a new format, a totally-new deployment setup, 64-bit, built-in speech recognition, DirectX 10 and so forth.

LOL.
 

bsobel

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Dec 9, 2001
13,346
0
0
The prefect technology, no. The way it works, yes. The general basis of it has been used before. However, my argument is irrelevant, so I'll give you this one.

Thank you, we can drop that point.

It's incorrect huh? Here:

Yes, the link you posted in the first paragraph said exactly what I already told you it won't play back copy protected HD video. So as I stated, Vista will happily play back HD content from a HD-DVD or a BlueRay drive WITHOUT DOWNSAMPLING unless copy protections require it. You stated that ALL HD content would be downsampled, your own links prove you incorrect.

Alright. If you say so.

The link you pointed to is for a CLOSED SYSTEM HD-DVD player which happens to use the linux kernel. It's irrelevant if its linux, qnx, windows, or something proprietary.

You like proving me wrong huh? So far, you're doing a bad job.

Actually you're wrong on every point so far.


Your quoting a 4 year old opinion peice. The primary driver for malware authors has moved to monetary. The primary target of that is windows as that is what most end users are running. I can write books on this area if you like (I speak about it for my company, which by the way OWNS SecurityFocus).

If Vista's security is so good, then why were people able to find an old Windows XP exploit on it? Can you explain that one to me?

You did catch the year right? this is a one year old issue. It's no secret to anyone that Vista is the next version of Windows XP and was based on the Windows XP 64/Windows 2003 SP1 code base. I'd expect an issue like this that effected so many MS products to also effect Vista. And if you notice, MS even provided fixes for their BETA OS at the time.


No, Aero DOES NOT REQUIRE PIXEL SHADER 2.0. I don't know how many times I need to repost that, it's running RIGHT NOW IN FRONT OF ME on non px2.0 boxes. Also, the link you posted was not Vista requirements it was an article on Adrian Kingsley-Hughes view of Vista in which HE recommends a ps2.0 capable card.

New PCs come with free upgrades to Vista Home Basic. New PCs won't have Home Premium. They will have Home Basic.

That is incorrect, Home Premium is equivalent to the current XP Home and will be the upgrade option for XP Home type users. Home basic really is for lower power machines in non-primary markets that don't have the power required.

Memory does not manipulate data! The GPU manipulates data. The memory works as a buffer for video cards. Don't get confused with system memory. Here's a link:

Your statement was that the video card memory does not hold data and is ONLY used as a buffer to transfer to main memory. You are incorrect.

You're failing to realize that you will also be running programs on Vista which will further bog down memory. Vista Capable PCs are PCs that run Vista Home Basic which doesn't include aero. We are talking about Vista Premium Ready PCs which DO include aero. Those requirements list at least 1 gig of memory. Here's the link:
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/security/0,1000000189,39247736,00.htm]http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/index.php?p=10--">http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/168]http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/168--->http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/index.php?p=10

Your wrong, but I think the link you tried to prove it is a mis-copy of the video memory link.


You're kidding, right?

No I'm not kidding and I'm privy to a heck of a lot more info on this than you. It was my team and my company that initially went to MS with our concerns on patchguard.

Dude. I gave you the link. Read the link. I know what I'm talking about. That link backs up what I just told you.

It does not.
 

Quinton McLeod

Senior member
Jan 17, 2006
375
0
0
Originally posted by: bsobel
The prefect technology, no. The way it works, yes. The general basis of it has been used before. However, my argument is irrelevant, so I'll give you this one.

Thank you, we can drop that point.

It's incorrect huh? Here:

Yes, the link you posted in the first paragraph said exactly what I already told you it won't play back copy protected HD video. So as I stated, Vista will happily play back HD content from a HD-DVD or a BlueRay drive WITHOUT DOWNSAMPLING unless copy protections require it. You stated that ALL HD content would be downsampled, your own links prove you incorrect.

Alright. If you say so.

The link you pointed to is for a CLOSED SYSTEM HD-DVD player which happens to use the linux kernel. It's irrelevant if its linux, qnx, windows, or something proprietary.

You like proving me wrong huh? So far, you're doing a bad job.

Actually you're wrong on every point so far.


Your quoting a 4 year old opinion peice. The primary driver for malware authors has moved to monetary. The primary target of that is windows as that is what most end users are running. I can write books on this area if you like (I speak about it for my company, which by the way OWNS SecurityFocus).

If Vista's security is so good, then why were people able to find an old Windows XP exploit on it? Can you explain that one to me?

You did catch the year right? this is a one year old issue. It's no secret to anyone that Vista is the next version of Windows XP and was based on the Windows XP 64/Windows 2003 SP1 code base. I'd expect an issue like this that effected so many MS products to also effect Vista. And if you notice, MS even provided fixes for their BETA OS at the time.


No, Aero DOES NOT REQUIRE PIXEL SHADER 2.0. I don't know how many times I need to repost that, it's running RIGHT NOW IN FRONT OF ME on non px2.0 boxes. Also, the link you posted was not Vista requirements it was an article on Adrian Kingsley-Hughes view of Vista in which HE recommends a ps2.0 capable card.

New PCs come with free upgrades to Vista Home Basic. New PCs won't have Home Premium. They will have Home Basic.

That is incorrect, Home Premium is equivalent to the current XP Home and will be the upgrade option for XP Home type users. Home basic really is for lower power machines in non-primary markets that don't have the power required.

Memory does not manipulate data! The GPU manipulates data. The memory works as a buffer for video cards. Don't get confused with system memory. Here's a link:

Your statement was that the video card memory does not hold data and is ONLY used as a buffer to transfer to main memory. You are incorrect.

You're failing to realize that you will also be running programs on Vista which will further bog down memory. Vista Capable PCs are PCs that run Vista Home Basic which doesn't include aero. We are talking about Vista Premium Ready PCs which DO include aero. Those requirements list at least 1 gig of memory. Here's the link:
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/security/0,1000000189,39247736,00.htm]http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/index.php?p=10--">http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/168]http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/168--->http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/index.php?p=10

Your wrong, but I think the link you tried to prove it is a mis-copy of the video memory link.


You're kidding, right?

No I'm not kidding and I'm privy to a heck of a lot more info on this than you. It was my team and my company that initially went to MS with our concerns on patchguard.

Dude. I gave you the link. Read the link. I know what I'm talking about. That link backs up what I just told you.

It does not.


I won't argue with you. All you're saying now is "You're wrong!" without any proof. I backed up all my claims with more than one link for each topic! If that's not enough for you, then I'm done. Have a nice day!
 

Sunner

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
11,641
0
76
If I made a claim and backed it up with a link to a company that sells toilet paper, that doesn't make me right only because the toilet paper company doesn't directly disprove me.
You've given plenty of links, but none that back you up.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
81
Originally posted by: Quinton McLeod
Originally posted by: bsobel
The prefect technology, no. The way it works, yes. The general basis of it has been used before. However, my argument is irrelevant, so I'll give you this one.

Thank you, we can drop that point.

It's incorrect huh? Here:

Yes, the link you posted in the first paragraph said exactly what I already told you it won't play back copy protected HD video. So as I stated, Vista will happily play back HD content from a HD-DVD or a BlueRay drive WITHOUT DOWNSAMPLING unless copy protections require it. You stated that ALL HD content would be downsampled, your own links prove you incorrect.

Alright. If you say so.

The link you pointed to is for a CLOSED SYSTEM HD-DVD player which happens to use the linux kernel. It's irrelevant if its linux, qnx, windows, or something proprietary.

You like proving me wrong huh? So far, you're doing a bad job.

Actually you're wrong on every point so far.


Your quoting a 4 year old opinion peice. The primary driver for malware authors has moved to monetary. The primary target of that is windows as that is what most end users are running. I can write books on this area if you like (I speak about it for my company, which by the way OWNS SecurityFocus).

If Vista's security is so good, then why were people able to find an old Windows XP exploit on it? Can you explain that one to me?

You did catch the year right? this is a one year old issue. It's no secret to anyone that Vista is the next version of Windows XP and was based on the Windows XP 64/Windows 2003 SP1 code base. I'd expect an issue like this that effected so many MS products to also effect Vista. And if you notice, MS even provided fixes for their BETA OS at the time.


No, Aero DOES NOT REQUIRE PIXEL SHADER 2.0. I don't know how many times I need to repost that, it's running RIGHT NOW IN FRONT OF ME on non px2.0 boxes. Also, the link you posted was not Vista requirements it was an article on Adrian Kingsley-Hughes view of Vista in which HE recommends a ps2.0 capable card.

New PCs come with free upgrades to Vista Home Basic. New PCs won't have Home Premium. They will have Home Basic.

That is incorrect, Home Premium is equivalent to the current XP Home and will be the upgrade option for XP Home type users. Home basic really is for lower power machines in non-primary markets that don't have the power required.

Memory does not manipulate data! The GPU manipulates data. The memory works as a buffer for video cards. Don't get confused with system memory. Here's a link:

Your statement was that the video card memory does not hold data and is ONLY used as a buffer to transfer to main memory. You are incorrect.

You're failing to realize that you will also be running programs on Vista which will further bog down memory. Vista Capable PCs are PCs that run Vista Home Basic which doesn't include aero. We are talking about Vista Premium Ready PCs which DO include aero. Those requirements list at least 1 gig of memory. Here's the link:
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/security/0,1000000189,39247736,00.htm]http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/index.php?p=10--">http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/168]http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/168--->http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/index.php?p=10

Your wrong, but I think the link you tried to prove it is a mis-copy of the video memory link.


You're kidding, right?

No I'm not kidding and I'm privy to a heck of a lot more info on this than you. It was my team and my company that initially went to MS with our concerns on patchguard.

Dude. I gave you the link. Read the link. I know what I'm talking about. That link backs up what I just told you.

It does not.


I won't argue with you. All you're saying now is "You're wrong!" without any proof. I backed up all my claims with more than one link for each topic! If that's not enough for you, then I'm done. Have a nice day!

Because you ARE wrong. Every link you gave is either outdated, beside the point, completely irrelevant, or just as wrong as you are.

For instance, if you're going to link gizmodo talking about HD not playing in 32bit vista, at least bother to look a little harder. A post from the SAME DAY, on the SAME SITE:

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/software...n-play-hd-dvd-bluray-movies-196535.php

A linux based HD-DVD player is STILL irrelevant.

The only thing I can slightly agree with you is that Aero Glass (3D), from everywhere I've read, does appear to require PS2.0. Aero standard (2d), does not. Although I don't see that as a problem, considering PS2.0 is several years old already.

The rest of your arguments are BS semantics and sophistry, and not even worth regarding.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,992
8,228
126
Originally posted by: mechBgon
Compare the cost per megabyte to Vista's requirement vs XP when it was released and Vista costs less to run than XP did.
Agreed. When I got my first Win2000 system, I was paying about $400 for 256MB of PC133. Today, I can get 1GB for $100 (without hunting for a Hot Deal). And I don't know the market breakdown, but I'd expect that most copies of Vista are going to be on brand-new off-the-shelf Happy Meal? computers sporting the necessary $100 worth of RAM.

Without Aero, Vista is just a glorified Windows XP SP3.
Yeah, it took Microsoft years and years of R&D to come up with... the Aero interface that turns WinXP into Vista. And then in the last two weeks they threw in all the other stuff like the services hardening, UAC, ASLR, the endless security audits, 2-way firewall, parental controls, the new network capabilities, zillions of additional Group Policy features implemented in a new format, a totally-new deployment setup, 64-bit, built-in speech recognition, DirectX 10 and so forth.

LOL.

Well at least the brain strain I got from reading this thread wasn't for naught. I scored a funny picture of an owl. Thanks Mech!!:thumbsup:
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: bsobel
Unless the UAC prompt is very rare then it probably won't work. It will have to be something that confuses and suprises the end user so they have to make a conscious decision on what to do, which is normally the opposite of what you want to happen on a desktop system (in regards to good UI design.)

In the UI model the windows shield icon should be present before any operation which will cause a UAC prompt. So if one just comes up randomly, it should stand out.

It does?

 

bsobel

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Dec 9, 2001
13,346
0
0
The only thing I can slightly agree with you is that Aero Glass (3D), from everywhere I've read, does appear to require PS2.0. Aero standard (2d), does not. Although I don't see that as a problem, considering PS2.0 is several years old already.

Rechecking the requirement is right, his assertion is wrong. Lets put this into perspective. His original comment was "Resources: Aero requires a graphics card capable of Pixel Shader 2.0. How many new computers actually run Pixel Shader 2.0 decently? Wanna know how many? NONE! Most new PCs come with an ATI X600 or Nvidia 6600. That is CRAP. Not to mention, that Vista is EXPENSIVE!"

He's saying that even NEW computers aren't don't have a good enough pixel shader 2.0 and can't use Aero glass. My point is that I have Aero glass on every pc Vista is on sans one and some of these machines are 3 years old. I got caught up in the actual PS2 comments, but yes it is required, no not only those two cards do it well. Any card after late 04/early 05 should run it fine. All new computers will run it fine.


 

bsobel

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Dec 9, 2001
13,346
0
0
I won't argue with you. All you're saying now is "You're wrong!" without any proof. I backed up all my claims with more than one link for each topic! If that's not enough for you, then I'm done. Have a nice day!

No, I said your wrong and each time told you why you were. You provided links which in a number of cases DIRECTLY DISAGREED WITH YOUR ASSERTION. The 32 bit Vista and HD-DVD playback being the most funny since it was in the first paragraph.

I did screw up on the pixel shader discussion, see my previous post. But while it is required, your assertion that no-one has it is wrong (and thats what I should have been arguing). I got screwed up os ps1 vs ps2.

If you look at the other comments in the thread, you've only proven you attempted to spread more mis-information and failed.
 

Quinton McLeod

Senior member
Jan 17, 2006
375
0
0
Originally posted by: Sunner
If I made a claim and backed it up with a link to a company that sells toilet paper, that doesn't make me right only because the toilet paper company doesn't directly disprove me.
You've given plenty of links, but none that back you up.

That's a horrible analogy. First of all, I found creditable links, and not any normal link. Not only that, but I found 2 sources for each topic I found. You should read the links before you comment on them.

Originally posted by: BD2003
Because you ARE wrong. Every link you gave is either outdated, beside the point, completely irrelevant, or just as wrong as you are.

For instance, if you're going to link gizmodo talking about HD not playing in 32bit vista, at least bother to look a little harder. A post from the SAME DAY, on the SAME SITE:

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/software...n-play-hd-dvd-bluray-movies-196535.php

A linux based HD-DVD player is STILL irrelevant.

The only thing I can slightly agree with you is that Aero Glass (3D), from everywhere I've read, does appear to require PS2.0. Aero standard (2d), does not. Although I don't see that as a problem, considering PS2.0 is several years old already.

The rest of your arguments are BS semantics and sophistry, and not even worth regarding.

I shouldn't have to translate every link I give you, but in this case, I will...

The date is irrelevant because it's well within reason (2006). Not only that, but Microsoft is not going to release information about their OS twice. Giving news twice about the same thing on two different days would be pointless.

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/vista/wi...version-wont-play-hd-movies-196427.php

They say, "Looking forward to watching HD movies when you upgrade to Windows Vista next year? Tough luck: unless you're running the 64-bit version of Vista on a 64-bit processor (like the Core 2 Duo or recent Athlons), it looks like it won't play back copy protected HD video. The culprit? Windows itself: the 32-bit version of Vista can run unsigned code, which Microsoft thinks might provide a path to intercept the video and copy it."

Then they offer links to other articles saying the same thing. I also gave 2 other links to prove this.

Blueray and HD-DVD movies are all copyrighted. Therefore, they are encrypted. If the material is encrypted, then it is protected by the DRM provided in Vista. This does not apply to home videos, obviously. But the smart ones know I'm not talking about home videos.

http://geekswithblogs.net/lorint/archive/2006/04/25/76295.aspx

I'm wrong about this one. However, I do know that one is on the way. There aren't many HD-DVD drives for computer yet anyway.

http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/188

This link explains that Windows is targeted not because it's the most used Desktop system. It goes into depth on how it's not true. Here's an excerpt.

He says, "Someone on a mailing list or discussion forum complains about the latest in a long line of Microsoft email viruses or worms and recommends others consider Mac OS X or Linux as a somewhat safer computing platform. In response, another person named, oh, let's call him "Bill," says, basically, "How ridiculous! The only reason Microsoft software is the target of so many viruses is because it is so widely used! Why, if Linux or Mac OS X was as popular as Windows, there would be just as many viruses written for those platforms!"

Of course, it's not just "regular folks" on mailing lists who share this opinion. Businesspeople have expressed similar attitudes ... including ones who work for anti-virus companies. Jack Clarke, European product manager at McAfee, said, "So we will be seeing more Linux viruses as the OS becomes more common and popular."

Mr. Clarke is wrong.

Sure, there are Linux viruses. But let's compare the numbers. According to Dr. Nic Peeling and Dr Julian Satchell's Analysis of the Impact of Open Source Software (note: the link is to a 135 kb PDF file):

"There are about 60,000 viruses known for Windows, 40 or so for the Macintosh, about 5 for commercial Unix versions, and perhaps 40 for Linux. Most of the Windows viruses are not important, but many hundreds have caused widespread damage. Two or three of the Macintosh viruses were widespread enough to be of importance. None of the Unix or Linux viruses became widespread - most were confined to the laboratory.""

http://www.theregister.co.uk/security/security_report_windows_vs_linux/#myth3

If you weren't convinced by that, I provided another link that says the same thing. Here's another excerpt.

It says, "Perhaps the most oft-repeated myth regarding Windows vs. Linux security is the claim that Windows has more incidents of viruses, worms, Trojans and other problems because malicious hackers tend to confine their activities to breaking into the software with the largest installed base. This reasoning is applied to defend Windows and Windows applications. Windows dominates the desktop; therefore Windows and Windows applications are the focus of the most attacks, which is why you don't see viruses, worms and Trojans for Linux. While this may be true, at least in part, the intentional implication is not necessarily true: That Linux and Linux applications are no more secure than Windows and Windows applications, but Linux is simply too trifling a target to bother attacking."

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/security/0,1000000189,39247736,00.htm

This is an old exploit that I spoke on earlier. The link is old, but this is still relevant because the exploit had to be fixed during beta stages. It was meant to show you that Vista runs the same kernel code as Windows XP.

Lots of controversy back then.

It says, "Microsoft earlier this month broke its monthly patching cycle to rush out a "critical" fix for Windows XP, Windows Server 2003 and Windows 2000. Vista is not listed in Microsoft's security bulletin as vulnerable, but the updates for the forthcoming OS release refer to the same page on Microsoft's support Web site for details on the security issue.

The WMF security problem drew an unusual response in the security world. One expert crafted his own fix for the problem, before Microsoft provided its security update. Industry experts called the WMF bug one of the most serious Windows flaws to date and recommended the third-party fix. Microsoft, meanwhile, said users were not under massive attack."

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/168

This article simply explains the differences between GDDR2 and GDDR3 as well as DDR1 and DDR2. It goes into depth with links and pictures; further explaining the differences between the two. It was linked to help educate you on memory. Memory doesn't manipulate data at all. This article confirms it. No need for me to quote. It's fairly straight forward and to the point.
 

bsobel

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Dec 9, 2001
13,346
0
0
Wow, your either a troll or simply can not read.

They say, "Looking forward to watching HD movies when you upgrade to Windows Vista next year? Tough luck: unless you're running the 64-bit version of Vista on a 64-bit processor (like the Core 2 Duo or recent Athlons), it looks like it won't play back copy protected HD video. The culprit? Windows itself: the 32-bit version of Vista can run unsigned code, which Microsoft thinks might provide a path to intercept the video and copy it."

Yes, which we ALL agree with. However the key phrase is COPY PROTECTED HD VIDEO. While you are posting that Vista will not play AND HD VIDEO. And ALL HD VIDEO is downsampled. Only that content which is copy protected and has downsampling turned on. Currently NO STUDIO is turning that bit on. We don't disagree that when they do, you'll need a 64bit machine to play those disks at full resolution. But your claiming you can't any HD video in 32bit Vista which is simply incorrect.

Blueray and HD-DVD movies are all copyrighted. Therefore, they are encrypted. If the material is encrypted, then it is protected by the DRM provided in Vista. This does not apply to home videos, obviously. But the smart ones know I'm not talking about home videos.

What you said was:

We're talking about HD-DVD and BlueRay! If you are running a 32 bit version of Vista, you cannot run those formats! Nor can you hook up your BlueRay or HD-DVD player through HDCP, HDMI, Component, or even DVI into a Vista 32bit machine and get HD. It will resize the image to 420p

This is incorrect, it applies if the downsample requirement is turned on. Again, no studio is turning that on before 2010. And the only sources of video aren't just studios and home movies, there is lots of material in between. You made it clear that NO HD material would play, you were wrong.

Further, you've yet to show how the Apple and Linux platforms are dealing with this problem (they have to implement DRM as well). You can't show a single destkop linux HD-DVD player, yet your complaining about Windows.

This link explains that Windows is targeted not because it's the most used Desktop system. It goes into depth on how it's not true. Here's an excerpt.

From your OWN QUOTE "Windows dominates the desktop; therefore Windows and Windows applications are the focus of the most attacks, which is why you don't see viruses, worms and Trojans for Linux. While this may be true, at least in part, the intentional implication is not necessarily true: That Linux and Linux applications are no more secure than Windows and Windows applications, but Linux is simply too trifling a target to bother attacking."

And, again, your quotes are years old. The threat landscape has changed, the primary motivator now is fraud and identify theft. Windows destkops are targetted because thats what people run. I do agree with the above statement however, they fact that Windows is targetted shouldn't be read as Linux is just as or more vulnerable (and shouldn't read as less Vulnerable). There is just less economic gain for the attacker to go after that platform today.

This is an old exploit that I spoke on earlier. The link is old, but this is still relevant because the exploit had to be fixed during beta stages. It was meant to show you that Vista runs the same kernel code as Windows XP.

No kidding, it's the next version based on the XP 64 sp1 code base. No one ever said anything different. Point is, its a year old issue, you brining it up just shows your desperate to find ANY Vista security issue to harp on. Here's a hint, there will be more, OS's have bugs (ALL of them do).

This article simply explains the differences between GDDR2 and GDDR3 as well as DDR1 and DDR2. It goes into depth with links and pictures; further explaining the differences between the two. It was linked to help educate you on memory. Memory doesn't manipulate data at all. This article confirms it. No need for me to quote. It's fairly straight forward and to the point.

Again, re-read your original assertion. Your trying to twist the n verions of your statements to appear right. No one else in thread agrees with you, and like I, these guys also know what they are talking about.
 

bsobel

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Dec 9, 2001
13,346
0
0
Originally posted by: Quinton McLeod
Originally posted by: Sunner
If I made a claim and backed it up with a link to a company that sells toilet paper, that doesn't make me right only because the toilet paper company doesn't directly disprove me.
You've given plenty of links, but none that back you up.

That's a horrible analogy. First of all, I found creditable links, and not any normal link. Not only that, but I found 2 sources for each topic I found. You should read the links before you comment on them.

Its a great analogy and funnier than heck that your own links discredit you.

 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
81
The date is irrelevant because it's well within reason (2006). Not only that, but Microsoft is not going to release information about their OS twice. Giving news twice about the same thing on two different days would be pointless.

I suggest you actually click on my link before spouting off any more BS, lest you look like an even bigger idiot.

And opinion pieces on why windows is attacked more isnt exactly convincing empirical evidence. Windows is secure enough for me.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/168

This article simply explains the differences between GDDR2 and GDDR3 as well as DDR1 and DDR2. It goes into depth with links and pictures; further explaining the differences between the two. It was linked to help educate you on memory. Memory doesn't manipulate data at all. This article confirms it. No need for me to quote. It's fairly straight forward and to the point.

You don't need to educate me on memory. I know well how memory works. You're throwing up a giant strawman in an attempt to look intelligent and raise yourself above me.

You act as if turning on Aero glass soaks up massive amounts of memory, and it doesnt. The windows/textures are stored in the VRAM, and the GPU manipulates it. That better?
 

Schnieds

Senior member
Jul 18, 2002
518
0
0
Hey, thanks for all of the great info in this thread... excellent.

Is anyone successfully running Visual Studio 2005 & SQL Express on Vista? I can't move my main box to Vista Ultimate until I know these apps will work (unless I create a Virtual WinXP install with my dev tools, but I would rather not go that route.)
 

bsobel

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Dec 9, 2001
13,346
0
0
Originally posted by: Schnieds
Hey, thanks for all of the great info in this thread... excellent.

Is anyone successfully running Visual Studio 2005 & SQL Express on Vista? I can't move my main box to Vista Ultimate until I know these apps will work (unless I create a Virtual WinXP install with my dev tools, but I would rather not go that route.)

I haven't tried VS2005 on VU yet (so yes, my answer isn't going to be overly helpful). But, I wanted to suggest that you don't discount running the dev tools in a VM. I moved to that model a while back and I highly highly recommend it. I got an external drive I drop into the laptop that I know I can bring up anywhere I need and get back to work, and nothign I've done has 'screwed up' my primary OS (I just create IIS vms, sql vms, etc). I think if you try it, you won't go back to install everything on one box ever again.

Regards,
Bill
 

Xyclone

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
10,312
0
76
I like Microsoft and have been using Vista for a month. As great as it is, Vista requires 2GB of ram for memory hogging games, such as BF2. Playing BF2 on 1GB of ram is ridiculous. I'm going to downgrade to XP until I have 2GB. To gamers, please make sure you have 2GB of ram before upgrading... thanks!
 

JonnyBlaze

Diamond Member
May 24, 2001
3,114
1
0
Originally posted by: Xyclone
I like Microsoft and have been using Vista for a month. As great as it is, Vista requires 2GB of ram for memory hogging games, such as BF2. Playing BF2 on 1GB of ram is ridiculous. I'm going to downgrade to XP until I have 2GB. To gamers, please make sure you have 2GB of ram before upgrading... thanks!

id agree with this. i have 2gigs so i dont worry about memory usage too much. its there for a reason.

my system is 3 maybe 4 years old and its running vista great. the only new component is my video card (x1650 pro)




 

bsobel

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Dec 9, 2001
13,346
0
0
Originally posted by: Xyclone
I like Microsoft and have been using Vista for a month. As great as it is, Vista requires 2GB of ram for memory hogging games, such as BF2. Playing BF2 on 1GB of ram is ridiculous. I'm going to downgrade to XP until I have 2GB. To gamers, please make sure you have 2GB of ram before upgrading... thanks!

I havent had this experience (not discounting yours) just wondering if there was other sw running in addition to 'core' pieces of the os. Althought Vista definately is more memory the better (but as I've posted earlier the cost per meg vs requirements are actually less than when XP came out)
 

Xyclone

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
10,312
0
76
Originally posted by: bsobel
Originally posted by: Xyclone
I like Microsoft and have been using Vista for a month. As great as it is, Vista requires 2GB of ram for memory hogging games, such as BF2. Playing BF2 on 1GB of ram is ridiculous. I'm going to downgrade to XP until I have 2GB. To gamers, please make sure you have 2GB of ram before upgrading... thanks!

I havent had this experience (not discounting yours) just wondering if there was other sw running in addition to 'core' pieces of the os. Althought Vista definately is more memory the better (but as I've posted earlier the cost per meg vs requirements are actually less than when XP came out)

Cost is not part of the equation in my post... I'm just saying... run Battlefield 2 or FEAR with 1GB of ram on Vista, and prepare to get owned.
 

Schnieds

Senior member
Jul 18, 2002
518
0
0
Originally posted by: bsobel
Originally posted by: Schnieds
Hey, thanks for all of the great info in this thread... excellent.

Is anyone successfully running Visual Studio 2005 & SQL Express on Vista? I can't move my main box to Vista Ultimate until I know these apps will work (unless I create a Virtual WinXP install with my dev tools, but I would rather not go that route.)

I haven't tried VS2005 on VU yet (so yes, my answer isn't going to be overly helpful). But, I wanted to suggest that you don't discount running the dev tools in a VM. I moved to that model a while back and I highly highly recommend it. I got an external drive I drop into the laptop that I know I can bring up anywhere I need and get back to work, and nothign I've done has 'screwed up' my primary OS (I just create IIS vms, sql vms, etc). I think if you try it, you won't go back to install everything on one box ever again.

Regards,
Bill

Thanks for the feedback. I run virtuals at work to test different environments as well as for development and use virtuals on my home machine for testing. For some reason I have been reluctant to move my development environment fully to virtuals at home, although I can definately see the advantage as I am sick of getting my environment setup again each time I have to make changes to the OS (especially installing 3rd party components and such.) The main reason I haven't switched is that I am lucky enough to have a dual flat panel setup and I use both screens constantly while developing (I don't think I can ever go back to having one screen.)

That said, I think I should look into dual screens on virtuals. I will probably be making the move to Vista on my main personal machine at the end of the month once I finish a large contract that I am currently working on.

I would still appreciate any specific feedback on VS 2005 and SQL Express if anyone has tried it.
 

bsobel

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Dec 9, 2001
13,346
0
0
That said, I think I should look into dual screens on virtuals. I will probably be making the move to Vista on my main personal machine at the end of the month once I finish a large contract that I am currently working on.

Vmware finally added initial support for multi-mon in Vmware Workstation 6 (I had asked them for it for some time, they finally snapped hehehehe). I had the exact same issue and am so happy their finally supporting it (you can run a vm and have it see both monitors or run multiple vm's and define with monitor each goes on).
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,554
10,171
126
I had always thought that running dev tools in a VM would make them painfully slow. (Already slow enough sometimes doing a build.) Is that not true? Does it require a CPU with those new VM extensions in order to not incur a slowdown? (Meaning, requiring a C2D CPU.)
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |