Windows XP impressions and experiences

[Stark]

So far, people have said it's better than 98se and ME. That's not saying a whole lot.

Any NT4/2K users out there?

 

[IdahoB]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

"The activation is an inconvenience, it doesn't add any benefit to the end user just an extra step, hence the term inconvenience. Also, it may be a breeze for you with your network connection but it may not be a breeze for someone else who has to call microsoft everytime they install. It definitely won't be a breeze if you end up locking the key because you installed too many times with different hardware."

What, you don't have a modem? Quite frankly being peeved because MS is taking steps to prevent you from outright theft of their software is pretty lame - having to enter a product key in the first place is an inconvenience but hey, I suppose you'd have them take that out as well, so us consumers don't have so much hassle.

"...you brought up win95 and win98 saying why would upgrading to XP be any different than upgrading to win98. I was saying some people still havn't upgraded to 98 and they obviously wouldn't have the same stance as you on the subject."

Okay okay - I still think it's totally OT but fair enough.

"...I guess if you consider Win2K "The Ground" then WinXP was built from the ground up. WinXP is as much NT4 as Win2K is."

Sorry - poor phrasing there. I meant that the concept behind XP is to ensure the code is far more consumer happy (ie: multimedia performance) as well as being stable thanks to the NT kernal. Win2K has some game and multimedia performance issues because it's a network workstation OS. WinXP isn't. Of course, we'll not really know until the gold disc is out and the benchmarks are running.

"In the context of your original post - this meant people bitching about WinXP from a Win2K standpoint were somehow Anti-MS, or you didn't supply enough information.

Sorry, maybe I was going a bit of the plot there. I have one real complaint about this. The anti-MS camp bitches about anything and everything MS does, but that's only to be expected and a little healthy criticism hurt no one. However, this time they are taking facts and distorting them out of all recognition. Most of them have no sodding idea how product activation works and no interest in finding out, because they'd rather spread the myth that MS is deliberately sucking every bit of your personal information out of you for reasons best known to themselves.

As a great example directly below your post: "...as long as they want to force me to submit my name to a database somewhere to ensure my copy is "legitimate," it's not going on my box..."

I shed a tear for he hath succombed to the BS and anti-hype. He actually believes MS have got into forced registration. For the 100th time, product activation and registration are two entirely seperate processes. You DON'T have to submit any personal information whatsoever if you don't choose to - exactly like every other copy of Windows I've got.

 

[lucidguy]

<< For the 100th time, product activation and registration are two entirely seperate processes. >>



This is what Microsoft wants you to think, but it's false. Armed with your IP address or caller ID information (either of which you end up giving to Microsoft during the so-called &quot;activation&quot and a hash of your hardware configuration, Microsoft can query publicly accessible databases to match up your name, address, phone number, social security number, credit card history, medical history, driver's license number, and a whole host of other information, to your unique hardware configuration and your Windows serial number. Using this information, they can further link up this data to your email address, your Passport registration, and any other activity that you perform on your installed copy of Windows.

If you want this to happen to you, that's fine. If you trust Microsoft to use this information responsibly, that's fine. I don't, and I don't, and if you have half a brain cell, I am hoping that you won't either.

 

[IdahoB]

Lucid, every website I go to gets my IP address, many of them have my e-mail, including MS. Everytime I make a phone call out goes my caller ID. This is paranoia in the extreme - yes, information about me is publically accesible. MS has access to that already - giving them a HASH code from my hardware will make no difference whatsoever. I live in the real world.

 

[lucidguy]

You're right. Many people and companies have access to your IP address and your Caller ID. They could get access to your name, address, phone number, Social Security number, Driver's License number, medical records, credit reports, etc, etc, if they really wanted to.

But most of the time, they have no reason to. They have no specific information about what you do for fun, what your habits are, what your interests are, etc, etc. The information would be uncontextualized, dry database entries. The information could not be monetized in any meaningful way. It couldn't be used for marketing purposes or risk management purposes easily.

However, Microsoft is in the unique position of being able to monetize your personal information.

Only Microsoft is in a position to link all of this very delicate personal information, directly to your computer, and to everything that you do on your computer.

Take a moment here. Read the above sentence once again.

Do you have any idea what the implications are?

The derivative of your hardware information, in conjunction with your Windows serial number, allows Microsoft to link anything you do, online or offline, to a fully detailed personal profile. Don't you think your insurance company would be interested in purchasing some of this information? Your employer? The IRS? Don't you think Microsoft would sell it to them at the right price?

I do understand that you're a sheep, but I'm hoping that there's a limit to how much you will allow others to trample all over your essential rights. If this doesn't faze you, I'm afraid nothing ever will.

 

[skace]

Idaho,


<< What, you don't have a modem? Quite frankly being peeved because MS is taking steps to prevent you from outright theft of their software is pretty lame - having to enter a product key in the first place is an inconvenience but hey, I suppose you'd have them take that out as well, so us consumers don't have so much hassle. >>


I am just saying that the activation itself is an inconvenience, whether it is a harsh inconvenience or a simple one - whether it is needed or it isn't - it is an inconvenience on the customer AKA an extra step with no real gain and the possibility of a loss (key gets locked). Although you all keep saying, &quot;worrying about the key getting locked is only for thieves&quot;, no one can reproduce an EXACT NUMBER of how many times I can use my key safely. I won't bitch about product keys, because I didn't expect them to REMOVE inconveniences (not microsoft at least) but adding more does not constitute a reason to upgrade. Also, of course I have a modem, and a cable modem, and an adsl modem but I am an anandtecher. There are many regular people who don't subscribe to online services (I know some people personally who fit this description). Will it be a huge crisis for them? No. Will it be an inconvenience for them to call MS? Yes.


<< The anti-MS camp bitches about anything and everything MS does >>


Perhaps it would make more sense to label this the anti-XP camp, as most of the people you are referring to are running an operating system from Microsoft.

 

[Psychoholic]

lucid


<< Don't you think your insurance company would be interested in purchasing some of this information? Your employer? The IRS? Don't you think Microsoft would sell it to them at the right price? >>


Don't you know this already happens??? Do you know how much information is already readily available??? If Microsoft were to do that, when compared to other privavcy concerns that are already valid, it's just a drop in the bucket. Do you realize that someone here, a moderator for example, could use you IP address or an e-mail to ultimately track you down??? Once that's done most of your so called &quot;private&quot; information is public record. All you have to do is have it pulled.



<< I do understand that you're a sheep, but I'm hoping that there's a limit to how much you will allow others to trample all over your essential rights. If this doesn't faze you, I'm afraid nothing ever will. >>


If you're such a big privacy advocate why haven't you been concerned before now and why are you acting like this is something new???

skace


<< I am just saying that the activation itself is an inconvenience, whether it is a harsh inconvenience or a simple one - whether it is needed or it isn't - it is an inconvenience on the customer AKA an extra step with no real gain and the possibility of a loss (key gets locked). >>


Does Microsoft not have the right to protect their product??? There are many software and hardware packages now that require something similar to this or worse. Why aren't you bitching about them??? I think if you had developed a product you would see this in another light. Sounds to me as if you worried that you may have a problem burning your own copy from a friend. If that's the case then Microsoft has achieved their goal.

 

[Psychoholic]

Damn, it would be nice if this thread stayed on topic. I would love to hear some more impressions of XP.

 

[lucidguy]

I'm assuming you want to hear only positive impressions. Some of us have been discussing our negative impressions, and backing them up with facts, and you are doing everything in your power to pretend that these negative impressions do not exist, or are somehow not valid.

Shill.

 

[sentania]

I moved from Nt 4.0 to 2k to XP and I have found the XP is stabler then 2k and for me it uses less memory!
Xp is a big step from a systems administration point of view as it will include terminal services in every client, and this will make it much easier to support. This was done because MS makes way more money from the Corporate would then from Joe Blow, so that's who they focus on. Companys don't play video games so the NT kernel is not built for games... if you wanna play games you shouldn't be using an NT kernel.

If you having problems with XP being unstable stop bitching for christs sake, it's still beta!

 

[lucidguy]

<< it will include terminal services in every client, and this will make it much easier to support >>



It will also make it much easier to hack and manipulate. So the knife cuts both ways.

Then again, what can you expect from a company that brought you LookOut! and Internet Infestation Server?

 

[sentania]

<< LOL IdahoB, good one. Too bad I disagree. See, Win98 didn't bring much more than Win95 to the table. But it also didn't bring any added inconveniences, while WinXP DOES. >>



what are those?

 

[sentania]

<< inconvenience. Also, it may be a breeze for you with your network connection but it may not be a breeze for someone else who has to call microsoft everytime they install. It definitely won't be a breeze if you end up locking the key because you installed too many times with different hardware. >>



write down the stupid authorization code, it works every time, that's what I did with my Educational copy of O2k, I got to the point where they locked me out of online activation, so I called wrote down the code they gave me and now i just use that....

 

[sentania]

<< This tread is interesting in that it shows how consumers may react to microsoft's next consumer os, or people otherwise afraid of win2k.

These are the people MS is betting the farm on. Accept the forced registration, expose the internet to raw sockets en masse, and they think it's the best thing since sliced bread.

I'm glad you're enjoying XP, but as long as they want to force me to submit my name to a database somewhere to ensure my copy is &quot;legitimate,&quot; it's not going on my box, or any of the other 200+ computers I'm responsible for. :Q >>



when you activate all they get is the name you put in during setup, no name in a database...unless you register; which you aren't required to do

 

[sentania]

<< So far, people have said it's better than 98se and ME. That's not saying a whole lot.

Any NT4/2K users out there? >>


I use NT 4, 2k, XP and 98SE every single day.

I prefer NT 4 from the point of view that it doesn't have much multimedia capabilites, keeps those little employees doing what they should; 2k from the point of view that I can play some games without have to boot to 98SE, and XP because it builds on 2k plus eventually from the support standpoint with TS. 98SE is only good to me because I can drop in the 95 explorer, and let it fly....

 

[sentania]

<<

<< For the 100th time, product activation and registration are two entirely seperate processes. >>



This is what Microsoft wants you to think, but it's false. Armed with your IP address or caller ID information (either of which you end up giving to Microsoft during the so-called &quot;activation&quot and a hash of your hardware configuration, Microsoft can query publicly accessible databases to match up your name, address, phone number, social security number, credit card history, medical history, driver's license number, and a whole host of other information, to your unique hardware configuration and your Windows serial number. Using this information, they can further link up this data to your email address, your Passport registration, and any other activity that you perform on your installed copy of Windows.

If you want this to happen to you, that's fine. If you trust Microsoft to use this information responsibly, that's fine. I don't, and I don't, and if you have half a brain cell, I am hoping that you won't either. >>


only your ISP knows your caller ID, or the USer who was given such and such IP address and without a warrant they can not issue that info to anyone

 

[lucidguy]

<< when you activate all they get is the name you put in during setup >>



They can also get the name that corresponds to your IP address, because, you know, every IP address can be backtracked to an ISP, which has on file your name, billing address, phone number, credit card number, and a bunch of other juicy details.

Seeing as how MSN is the second largest ISP in the US, they already have tens of millions of people that they can easily match up in this way. And if MS partners with other ISPs (Earthlink, Verizon, etc) they can easily get millions of other people's information as well.

Not feeling so safe anymore, are you?

 

[sentania]

<<

<< it will include terminal services in every client, and this will make it much easier to support >>



It will also make it much easier to hack and manipulate. So the knife cuts both ways.

Then again, what can you expect from a company that brought you LookOut! and Internet Infestation Server? >>


Yes the knife cuts both ways, but TS is properly implemented very secure and with new networking tools that are rapidly being implemented large scale hacking of Corporate hosts will lessen. Yes, you can never stop a determined hacker, but being how most companies will implement this and grant permissions, it will be unlikely to happen

 

[sentania]

<<

<< when you activate all they get is the name you put in during setup >>



They can also get the name that corresponds to your IP address, because, you know, every IP address can be backtracked to an ISP, which has on file your name, billing address, phone number, credit card number, and a bunch of other juicy details.

Seeing as how MSN is the second largest ISP in the US, they already have tens of millions of people that they can easily match up in this way. And if MS partners with other ISPs (Earthlink, Verizon, etc) they can easily get millions of other people's information as well.

Not feeling so safe anymore, are you? >>


I don't use MSN and I don't plan on using a Internet &quot;reseller&quot; like verizon, my ISP is work, school, and phone. I'd like to see MS take on the Phone Companys....

 

[Rogue]

Let's put this all into perspective here.

If you really want your privacy taken away in the worst way, join our Armed forces. They now catalog the DNA of every soldier that joins under the guise that it will be used to &quot;identify remains&quot;.

My hard drive serial number is not and was not issued by my government and is not tied to me in any way, especially if I paid cash. It's not used to track my driving record or my credit history. It will not implicate me in a crime of any kind. For all I know, there are another 100,000 drives just like it with the same exact serial number floating out there, unlike a SS# or a driver's license number. The same goes for every other component in my computer. Think about your car for a minute. It has unique identifying numbers all over it. I can go online and look up a history on your car and virtually everything that's ever been done to it based on the VIN number. I can go into NCIC, pull your VIN and see if a crime was committed in your car. Can I do this with your hard drive? No. I can't. Neither can Microsoft because they are not a governing body over anything except one thing, their product that you buy. Just as Ford ties my name to my VIN number on my car and most of the components in it, Microsoft is choosing to do so with their product.

Lucid. You strike me as particularly scared person. I'm willing to bet your favorite movie is Conspiracy Theroy, the you have filed off the serial numbers (including your VIN#, did you get all of them?) on every product you have ever owned and never registered anything with any vendor or entity. You have torn up your SS# card for fear that someone will use it against you. You don't have a credit card, a phone number or tattoos, because those are unique identifying traits that can point to you. Hell, why did you register here even? You gave away your e-mail address didn't you? I'm sure I can go online and look up lots of things you've done with your e-mail address. Did you put your city and state in your profile? I won't go look because I don't want you to have an aneurism from the fear that someone might know something about you, your info's safe with me, okay? Even funnier is my &quot;conspiracy theory&quot; on you. You have a Microsoft product installed on every computer you own. You didn't pop into that Linux thread recently which strikes me a particularly interesting considering you talk a big game against Microsoft but you don't seem to use the alternative. You're probably running WinXP beta right now in fact. Use your anonimity on this board to spout your crap, but in the real world, everyone knows everything there is to know about you, trust me.

 

[sentania]

<<

<< when you activate all they get is the name you put in during setup >>



They can also get the name that corresponds to your IP address, because, you know, every IP address can be backtracked to an ISP, which has on file your name, billing address, phone number, credit card number, and a bunch of other juicy details.

Seeing as how MSN is the second largest ISP in the US, they already have tens of millions of people that they can easily match up in this way. And if MS partners with other ISPs (Earthlink, Verizon, etc) they can easily get millions of other people's information as well.

Not feeling so safe anymore, are you? >>


And i guess that Since MSN is the second largest ISp in the US, MS already has millions of information so what are you worried about.

 

[sentania]

<< Let's put this all into perspective here.

If you really want your privacy taken away in the worst way, join our Armed forces. They now catalog the DNA of every soldier that joins under the guise that it will be used to &quot;identify remains&quot;.

My hard drive serial number is not and was not issued by my government and is not tied to me in any way, especially if I paid cash. It's not used to track my driving record or my credit history. It will not implicate me in a crime of any kind. For all I know, there are another 100,000 drives just like it with the same exact serial number floating out there, unlike a SS# or a driver's license number. The same goes for every other component in my computer. Think about your car for a minute. It has unique identifying numbers all over it. I can go online and look up a history on your car and virtually everything that's ever been done to it based on the VIN number. I can go into NCIC, pull your VIN and see if a crime was committed in your car. Can I do this with your hard drive? No. I can't. Neither can Microsoft because they are not a governing body over anything except one thing, their product that you buy. Just as Ford ties my name to my VIN number on my car and most of the components in it, Microsoft is choosing to do so with their product.

Lucid. You strike me as particularly scared person. I'm willing to bet your favorite movie is Conspiracy Theroy, the you have filed off the serial numbers (including your VIN#, did you get all of them?) on every product you have ever owned and never registered anything with any vendor or entity. You have torn up your SS# card for fear that someone will use it against you. You don't have a credit card, a phone number or tattoos, because those are unique identifying traits that can point to you. Hell, why did you register here even? You gave away your e-mail address didn't you? I'm sure I can go online and look up lots of things you've done with your e-mail address. Did you put your city and state in your profile? I won't go look because I don't want you to have an aneurism from the fear that someone might know something about you, your info's safe with me, okay? Even funnier is my &quot;conspiracy theory&quot; on you. You have a Microsoft product installed on every computer you own. You didn't pop into that Linux thread recently which strikes me a particularly interesting considering you talk a big game against Microsoft but you don't seem to use the alternative. You're probably running WinXP beta right now in fact. Use your anonimity on this board to spout your crap, but in the real world, everyone knows everything there is to know about you, trust me. >>



YEY! Somebody else besides me realizes that this privacy thing we hold so dear disappeared the moment we were born!

 

[Psychoholic]

lucid


<< I'm assuming you want to hear only positive impressions. Some of us have been discussing our negative impressions, and backing them up with facts, and you are doing everything in your power to pretend that these negative impressions do not exist, or are somehow not valid. >>


No, I don't mind negative impressions if they about the OS from those who are using it.

Rogue


<< Lucid. You strike me as particularly scared person. >>


No, he's just someone who is afaid his &quot;rights&quot; to pirate software has been taken away. Now he's going to have to ask his mommy for the money to buy his OS.

 

[Psychoholic]

lucid


<< Seeing as how MSN is the second largest ISP in the US, they already have tens of millions of people that they can easily match up in this way. And if MS partners with other ISPs (Earthlink, Verizon, etc) they can easily get millions of other people's information as well. >>


What's your problem with the thousands of other companies that also have this information or more???

 

[sentania]

Rogue


<< Lucid. You strike me as particularly scared person. >>


No, he's just someone who is afaid his &quot;rights&quot; to pirate software has been taken away. Now he's going to have to ask his mommy for the money to buy his OS.[/i] >>



hehe