Windows XP SP1 Will Not Install on Known Pirated Installations

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milagro

Golden Member
Jun 19, 2001
1,459
0
0
OFF topic:


haahahahahah that is also just as ridiculous, AMD charges cheap because no one would pay them more.

okay now that comment is just silly. AMD has a less expensive fab process coupled with down economy and aggressive marketing. So when Hammers crush Intel's 64-bit(only) chip at a lower price it will be because they're desperate to find a customer
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,425
8,388
126
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Then stick with an older version of Windows like Windows 2000.
That is what is on our desktops and servers now. Why? Mostly because MS forced the upgrade. Don't kid yourself. Support for NT4 will be going bye bye very soon.

Do you HAVE to use Windows XP Pro? No. Do you HAVE to use Windows 2000 Pro? No. Do you HAVE to use Office XP/2000?? No.

We still do work for businesses that run DOS machines, companies that still use TONS of Windows 95 machines with Office 95/97.

no one has to use telephones and yet that industry was first heavily regulated then the monopoly was broken up. and its still heavily regulated.

Crap. Bell was a government mandated and protected monopoly. MS is neither.

PC OS's should be recognized as a natural monopoly and thus subject to all the regulation and oversight that any of them, utilities or whoever, are due.

More crap. Please name one proffession in which the job cannot be done on a non-windows OS or a Mac. Just one.

The individual does not have a choice of electric/cable/phone, but they DO have a choice of OS. To claim otherwise is just crap.

to claim that MS is not a monopoly in desktop operating systems is to ignore reality (aka, crap, in your word). sure, there are alternatives, but the fact that MS can extract a different price from different consumers for the same product defines them as a monopoly. due to some gov't intervention they're no longer legally allowed to do that.
 

mithrandir2001

Diamond Member
May 1, 2001
6,545
1
0
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Advocating theft of software doesnt further your argument in the least.
I'm not advocating piracy. All I said in my original post was that if MS were to lower their prices it would do a lot more to prevent piracy than these half assed schemes do.
I find it difficult to purchase OS software when I know half of the copies out there are pirated. You almost feel like a fool for buying the thing.

Car insurance rates in Philly are insane because so many drivers are uninsured. The city is cracking down and impounding vehicles of uninsured drivers...but the rates never change. It's like: what's the point?

MS OS software is overpriced, if you buy it through legal channels. That means RETAIL copies not OEM copies-along-with-a-$5-2x-CD-ROM-"hardware-purchase". Like hell am I going to fork over $199 for XP Home retail.
 

aswedc

Diamond Member
Oct 25, 2000
3,543
0
76
Eh who cares - you can have your free XP and be legal too

Just order a free download of Windows.net in the MS preview program, and with a few hacks plus a program called NTSwitch you got an OS thats pretty much identical to a properly patched XP. I think its good for 360 days, and thats plenty of time to get another alternative to buying a MS OS
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
55,996
14,507
146
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Then stick with an older version of Windows like Windows 2000.
That is what is on our desktops and servers now. Why? Mostly because MS forced the upgrade. Don't kid yourself. Support for NT4 will be going bye bye very soon.

Do you HAVE to use Windows XP Pro? No. Do you HAVE to use Windows 2000 Pro? No. Do you HAVE to use Office XP/2000?? No.

We still do work for businesses that run DOS machines, companies that still use TONS of Windows 95 machines with Office 95/97.

no one has to use telephones and yet that industry was first heavily regulated then the monopoly was broken up. and its still heavily regulated.

Crap. Bell was a government mandated and protected monopoly. MS is neither.

PC OS's should be recognized as a natural monopoly and thus subject to all the regulation and oversight that any of them, utilities or whoever, are due.

More crap. Please name one proffession in which the job cannot be done on a non-windows OS or a Mac. Just one.

The individual does not have a choice of electric/cable/phone, but they DO have a choice of OS. To claim otherwise is just crap.

to claim that MS is not a monopoly in desktop operating systems is to ignore reality (aka, crap, in your word). sure, there are alternatives, but the fact that MS can extract a different price from different consumers for the same product defines them as a monopoly. due to some gov't intervention they're no longer legally allowed to do that.

They can sell their product for whatever prices they want. The fact the viable alternatives exist prove they are not a "monopoly."

If a consumer is not happy with MS's products, or pricing, they CAN use an alternative that CAN do the job.

What is at play here is that people like you want to punish MS for being the most popular. You can't control the consumer, so you want to regulate the business.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
55,996
14,507
146
And again I find it strangely pathetic that a thread about a software company trying to protect their legal property has been twisted into a discussion about MS's alleged monopoly.

One has nothing to do with the other. If the right to steal a person's intellectal property is based on what you think of them, I weep for your sense of ethics.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,836
9,071
136
Man, IMHO, Microsoft should dump the "one installation per box" requirement on Windows XP Home. Activation just pisses me off. Sure I bought my legal copy of Windows XP Home...and its still sitting in the box. I don't want to activate and then run into some problem where I can't read my NTFS partition and I have to install XP on another machine to look at my drive but WHOOPS looks like I need to spend another $95 to do that!
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,425
8,388
126
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Then stick with an older version of Windows like Windows 2000.
That is what is on our desktops and servers now. Why? Mostly because MS forced the upgrade. Don't kid yourself. Support for NT4 will be going bye bye very soon.

Do you HAVE to use Windows XP Pro? No. Do you HAVE to use Windows 2000 Pro? No. Do you HAVE to use Office XP/2000?? No.

We still do work for businesses that run DOS machines, companies that still use TONS of Windows 95 machines with Office 95/97.

no one has to use telephones and yet that industry was first heavily regulated then the monopoly was broken up. and its still heavily regulated.

Crap. Bell was a government mandated and protected monopoly. MS is neither.

PC OS's should be recognized as a natural monopoly and thus subject to all the regulation and oversight that any of them, utilities or whoever, are due.

More crap. Please name one proffession in which the job cannot be done on a non-windows OS or a Mac. Just one.

The individual does not have a choice of electric/cable/phone, but they DO have a choice of OS. To claim otherwise is just crap.

to claim that MS is not a monopoly in desktop operating systems is to ignore reality (aka, crap, in your word). sure, there are alternatives, but the fact that MS can extract a different price from different consumers for the same product defines them as a monopoly. due to some gov't intervention they're no longer legally allowed to do that.

They can sell their product for whatever prices they want. The fact the viable alternatives exist prove they are not a "monopoly."

If a consumer is not happy with MS's products, or pricing, they CAN use an alternative that CAN do the job.

What is at play here is that people like you want to punish MS for being the most popular. You can't control the consumer, so you want to regulate the business.

"a situation where a market is dominated by a single seller of a product is known simply as a monopoly"
-- hal r varian's intermediate microeconomics: a modern approach fifth ed, pg 12.

 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,425
8,388
126
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
And again I find it strangely pathetic that a thread about a software company trying to protect their legal property has been twisted into a discussion about MS's alleged monopoly.

One has nothing to do with the other. If the right to steal a person's intellectal property is based on what you think of them, I weep for your sense of ethics.
weep for MS's.

MS has been found to be a monopoly as a FACT by the US legal system. its not alleged, it is legal FACT.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
55,996
14,507
146
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Then stick with an older version of Windows like Windows 2000.
That is what is on our desktops and servers now. Why? Mostly because MS forced the upgrade. Don't kid yourself. Support for NT4 will be going bye bye very soon.

Do you HAVE to use Windows XP Pro? No. Do you HAVE to use Windows 2000 Pro? No. Do you HAVE to use Office XP/2000?? No.

We still do work for businesses that run DOS machines, companies that still use TONS of Windows 95 machines with Office 95/97.

no one has to use telephones and yet that industry was first heavily regulated then the monopoly was broken up. and its still heavily regulated.

Crap. Bell was a government mandated and protected monopoly. MS is neither.

PC OS's should be recognized as a natural monopoly and thus subject to all the regulation and oversight that any of them, utilities or whoever, are due.

More crap. Please name one proffession in which the job cannot be done on a non-windows OS or a Mac. Just one.

The individual does not have a choice of electric/cable/phone, but they DO have a choice of OS. To claim otherwise is just crap.

to claim that MS is not a monopoly in desktop operating systems is to ignore reality (aka, crap, in your word). sure, there are alternatives, but the fact that MS can extract a different price from different consumers for the same product defines them as a monopoly. due to some gov't intervention they're no longer legally allowed to do that.

They can sell their product for whatever prices they want. The fact the viable alternatives exist prove they are not a "monopoly."

If a consumer is not happy with MS's products, or pricing, they CAN use an alternative that CAN do the job.

What is at play here is that people like you want to punish MS for being the most popular. You can't control the consumer, so you want to regulate the business.

"a situation where a market is dominated by a single seller of a product is known simply as a monopoly"
-- hal r varian's intermediate microeconomics: a modern approach fifth ed, pg 12.

Main Entry: mo·nop·o·ly
Pronunciation: m&-'nä-p(&-)lE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -lies
Etymology: Latin monopolium, from Greek monopOlion, from mon- + pOlein to sell
Date: 1534
1 : exclusive ownership through legal privilege, command of supply, or concerted action
2 : exclusive possession or control
3 : a commodity controlled by one party
4 : one that has a monopoly

MS does not have an exculsive ownership or control of the OS market. Other viable OSes exist.

Nearly every market has a dominant company. Dominanting a market does not mean one has exculsive control.

Now, you can try to redifine the word "monopoly" all you want, or do so by proxy... it wont change a thing. MS does NOT have exclusive control of the OS market.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
55,996
14,507
146
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
And again I find it strangely pathetic that a thread about a software company trying to protect their legal property has been twisted into a discussion about MS's alleged monopoly.

One has nothing to do with the other. If the right to steal a person's intellectal property is based on what you think of them, I weep for your sense of ethics.
weep for MS's.

MS has been found to be a monopoly as a FACT by the US legal system. its not alleged, it is legal FACT.

No, that's a tragedy of our legal system, perpetrated by an obviously biased judge who has already had his penalties overturned.

And our legal system once upheald Dred Scott. Does that mean it's a FACT that blacks are not entitled to be free?

 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,425
8,388
126
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Then stick with an older version of Windows like Windows 2000.
That is what is on our desktops and servers now. Why? Mostly because MS forced the upgrade. Don't kid yourself. Support for NT4 will be going bye bye very soon.

Do you HAVE to use Windows XP Pro? No. Do you HAVE to use Windows 2000 Pro? No. Do you HAVE to use Office XP/2000?? No.

We still do work for businesses that run DOS machines, companies that still use TONS of Windows 95 machines with Office95/97.

no one has to use telephones and yet that industry was first heavily regulated then the monopoly was broken up. and its still heavily regulated.

Crap. Bell was a government mandated and protected monopoly. MS is neither.

PC OS's should be recognized as a natural monopoly and thus subject to all the regulation and oversight that any of them, utilities or whoever, are due.

More crap. Please name one proffession in which the job cannot be done on a non-windows OS or a Mac. Just one.

The individual does not have a choice of electric/cable/phone, but they DO have a choice of OS. To claim otherwise is just crap.

to claim that MS is not a monopoly in desktop operating systems is to ignore reality (aka, crap, in your word). sure, there are alternatives, but the fact that MS can extract a different price from different consumers for the same product defines them as a monopoly. due to some gov't intervention they're no longer legally allowed to do that.

They can sell their product for whatever prices they want. The fact the viable alternatives exist prove they are not a "monopoly."

If a consumer is not happy with MS's products, or pricing, they CAN use an alternative that CAN do the job.

What is at play here is that people like you want to punish MS for being the most popular. You can't control the consumer, so you want to regulate the business.

"a situation where a market is dominated by a single seller of a product is known simply as a monopoly"
-- hal r varian's intermediate microeconomics: a modern approach fifth ed, pg 12.

Main Entry: mo·nop·o·ly
Pronunciation: m&-'nä-p(&-)lE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -lies
Etymology: Latin monopolium, from Greek monopOlion, from mon- + pOlein to sell
Date: 1534
1 : exclusive ownership through legal privilege, command of supply, or concerted action
2 : exclusive possession or control
3 : a commodity controlled by one party
4 : one that has a monopoly

MS does not have an exculsive ownership or control of the OS market. Other viable OSes exist.

Nearly every market has a dominant company. Dominanting a market does not mean one has exculsive control.

Now, you can try to redifine the word "monopoly" all you want, or do so by proxy... it wont change a thing. MS does NOT have exclusive control of the OS market.

what a bunch of english majors think a monopoly is vs what an economist defines a monopoly as... guess who i grant higher authority to.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
55,996
14,507
146
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Then stick with an older version of Windows like Windows 2000.
That is what is on our desktops and servers now. Why? Mostly because MS forced the upgrade. Don't kid yourself. Support for NT4 will be going bye bye very soon.

Do you HAVE to use Windows XP Pro? No. Do you HAVE to use Windows 2000 Pro? No. Do you HAVE to use Office XP/2000?? No.

We still do work for businesses that run DOS machines, companies that still use TONS of Windows 95 machines with Office95/97.

no one has to use telephones and yet that industry was first heavily regulated then the monopoly was broken up. and its still heavily regulated.

Crap. Bell was a government mandated and protected monopoly. MS is neither.

PC OS's should be recognized as a natural monopoly and thus subject to all the regulation and oversight that any of them, utilities or whoever, are due.

More crap. Please name one proffession in which the job cannot be done on a non-windows OS or a Mac. Just one.

The individual does not have a choice of electric/cable/phone, but they DO have a choice of OS. To claim otherwise is just crap.

to claim that MS is not a monopoly in desktop operating systems is to ignore reality (aka, crap, in your word). sure, there are alternatives, but the fact that MS can extract a different price from different consumers for the same product defines them as a monopoly. due to some gov't intervention they're no longer legally allowed to do that.

They can sell their product for whatever prices they want. The fact the viable alternatives exist prove they are not a "monopoly."

If a consumer is not happy with MS's products, or pricing, they CAN use an alternative that CAN do the job.

What is at play here is that people like you want to punish MS for being the most popular. You can't control the consumer, so you want to regulate the business.

"a situation where a market is dominated by a single seller of a product is known simply as a monopoly"
-- hal r varian's intermediate microeconomics: a modern approach fifth ed, pg 12.

Main Entry: mo·nop·o·ly
Pronunciation: m&-'nä-p(&-)lE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -lies
Etymology: Latin monopolium, from Greek monopOlion, from mon- + pOlein to sell
Date: 1534
1 : exclusive ownership through legal privilege, command of supply, or concerted action
2 : exclusive possession or control
3 : a commodity controlled by one party
4 : one that has a monopoly

MS does not have an exculsive ownership or control of the OS market. Other viable OSes exist.

Nearly every market has a dominant company. Dominanting a market does not mean one has exculsive control.

Now, you can try to redifine the word "monopoly" all you want, or do so by proxy... it wont change a thing. MS does NOT have exclusive control of the OS market.

what a bunch of english majors think a monopoly is vs what an economist defines a monopoly as... guess who i grant higher authority to.

The root of the word "monopoly" is mono which means ONE. There is more than one OS available. That some economist chooses to redefine the word to fit his agenda is irrelevant. The fact remains that MS cannot be a monoploy so long as other viable OSes exist.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,425
8,388
126
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
And again I find it strangely pathetic that a thread about a software company trying to protect their legal property has been twisted into a discussion about MS's alleged monopoly.

One has nothing to do with the other. If the right to steal a person's intellectal property is based on what you think of them, I weep for your sense of ethics.
weep for MS's.

MS has been found to be a monopoly as a FACT by the US legal system. its not alleged, it is legal FACT.

No, that's a tragedy of our legal system, perpetrated by an obviously biased judge who has already had his penalties overturned.

And our legal system once upheald Dred Scott. Does that mean it's a FACT that blacks are not entitled to be free?


so now we're back to ethics... obviously society's ethics have changed over time. the ethics of the here and now have black people free and microsoft a monopoly and an abuser of said monopoly. the punishment has yet to be meted out but it is coming.
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,856
1,048
126
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Advocating theft of software doesnt further your argument in the least.
I'm not advocating piracy. All I said in my original post was that if MS were to lower their prices it would do a lot more to prevent piracy than these half assed schemes do.

I don't necessarily agree with that. People ALSO pirate because it's available for the taking. I don't think they go look at how much it costs first or think that because they can afford it with their next 2 paychecks, they would buy it then rather than take it now.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,425
8,388
126
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Then stick with an older version of Windows like Windows 2000.
That is what is on our desktops and servers now. Why? Mostly because MS forced the upgrade. Don't kid yourself. Support for NT4 will be going bye bye very soon.

Do you HAVE to use Windows XP Pro? No. Do you HAVE to use Windows 2000 Pro? No. Do you HAVE to use Office XP/2000?? No.

We still do work for businesses that run DOS machines, companies that still use TONS of Windows 95 machines with Office95/97.

no one has to use telephones and yet that industry was first heavily regulated then the monopoly was broken up. and its still heavily regulated.

Crap. Bell was a government mandated and protected monopoly. MS is neither.

PC OS's should be recognized as a natural monopoly and thus subject to all the regulation and oversight that any of them, utilities or whoever, are due.

More crap. Please name one proffession in which the job cannot be done on a non-windows OS or a Mac. Just one.

The individual does not have a choice of electric/cable/phone, but they DO have a choice of OS. To claim otherwise is just crap.

to claim that MS is not a monopoly in desktop operating systems is to ignore reality (aka, crap, in your word). sure, there are alternatives, but the fact that MS can extract a different price from different consumers for the same product defines them as a monopoly. due to some gov't intervention they're no longer legally allowed to do that.

They can sell their product for whatever prices they want. The fact the viable alternatives exist prove they are not a "monopoly."

If a consumer is not happy with MS's products, or pricing, they CAN use an alternative that CAN do the job.

What is at play here is that people like you want to punish MS for being the most popular. You can't control the consumer, so you want to regulate the business.

"a situation where a market is dominated by a single seller of a product is known simply as a monopoly"
-- hal r varian's intermediate microeconomics: a modern approach fifth ed, pg 12.

Main Entry: mo·nop·o·ly
Pronunciation: m&-'nä-p(&-)lE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -lies
Etymology: Latin monopolium, from Greek monopOlion, from mon- + pOlein to sell
Date: 1534
1 : exclusive ownership through legal privilege, command of supply, or concerted action
2 : exclusive possession or control
3 : a commodity controlled by one party
4 : one that has a monopoly

MS does not have an exculsive ownership or control of the OS market. Other viable OSes exist.

Nearly every market has a dominant company. Dominanting a market does not mean one has exculsive control.

Now, you can try to redifine the word "monopoly" all you want, or do so by proxy... it wont change a thing. MS does NOT have exclusive control of the OS market.

what a bunch of english majors think a monopoly is vs what an economist defines a monopoly as... guess who i grant higher authority to.

The root of the word "monopoly" is mono which means ONE. There is more than one OS available. That some economist chooses to redefine the word to fit his agenda is irrelevant. The fact remains that MS cannot be a monoploy so long as other viable OSes exist.

again, etymology vs an accepted economics definition.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
55,996
14,507
146
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
And again I find it strangely pathetic that a thread about a software company trying to protect their legal property has been twisted into a discussion about MS's alleged monopoly.

One has nothing to do with the other. If the right to steal a person's intellectal property is based on what you think of them, I weep for your sense of ethics.
weep for MS's.

MS has been found to be a monopoly as a FACT by the US legal system. its not alleged, it is legal FACT.

No, that's a tragedy of our legal system, perpetrated by an obviously biased judge who has already had his penalties overturned.

And our legal system once upheald Dred Scott. Does that mean it's a FACT that blacks are not entitled to be free?


so now we're back to ethics... obviously society's ethics have changed over time. the ethics of the here and now have black people free and microsoft a monopoly and an abuser of said monopoly. the punishment has yet to be meted out but it is coming.

Again, explain how MS is a monopoly if other viable OSes are available?

You gave one illogical definition, but that definition drew no line. At what predefined line does a dominant company become a monopoly?

Intel dominates the processor market. Are they a monopoly? If not, why not? How is Intel's domination of the processor market any different than MS's domination of the OS market? What % of market share must be crossed?
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,425
8,388
126
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
And again I find it strangely pathetic that a thread about a software company trying to protect their legal property has been twisted into a discussion about MS's alleged monopoly.

One has nothing to do with the other. If the right to steal a person's intellectal property is based on what you think of them, I weep for your sense of ethics.
weep for MS's.

MS has been found to be a monopoly as a FACT by the US legal system. its not alleged, it is legal FACT.

No, that's a tragedy of our legal system, perpetrated by an obviously biased judge who has already had his penalties overturned.

And our legal system once upheald Dred Scott. Does that mean it's a FACT that blacks are not entitled to be free?


so now we're back to ethics... obviously society's ethics have changed over time. the ethics of the here and now have black people free and microsoft a monopoly and an abuser of said monopoly. the punishment has yet to be meted out but it is coming.

Again, explain how MS is a monopoly if other viable OSes are available?

You gave one illogical definition, but that definition drew no line. At what predefined line does a dominant company become a monopoly?

Intel dominates the processor market. Are they a monopoly? If not, why not? How is Intel's domination of the processor market any different than MS's domination of the OS market? What % of market share must be crossed?
intel's x86 architecture has a very close subsitute in AMD. for the combination of ease of use and mix and availability of software there is no substitute to MS windows, to even speak of a close substitute.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
More crap. Please name one proffession in which the job cannot be done on a non-windows OS or a Mac. Just one.

You ignore the fact that many businesses and government agencies do not allow IT managers to make primary purchasing decisions. Even if they could they would then be restricted to an approved list of vendors. MS sticks it to a captive audience b/c they can . . . if you refuse monopoly let's try monopolistic influence.

Win95 was not good. Win98 was better. Win98SE umm a little better. NT4 nice. 2000 very nice. ME sux. XP pretty good. MS coerces businesses to upgrade by manipulating support for OS and manipulating programmers by fiat. But they do have a right to try to protect their intellectual property.
 

schizoid

Banned
May 27, 2000
2,207
1
0
This whole line of discussion cracks me up.

You don't have to do anything. I don't care how many people work for your company of how much it has invested in legacy MS software, whatever. It doesn't matter. The last time I checked, no one put a gun to your head and said "stick this damn CD in, and install it". Now, maybe there is an "economic" gun to your head, but guess what? That's YOUR problem, not mine, not anyone else's and certainly not Microsoft's. So your buisness is shackled to Microsoft? Sucks to you then, I guess. The fact of the matter is, your buisness is still profitable, otherwise you wouldn't be in buisness very long, would you?. Now, if your point of contention is that your buisness would be more profitable (productive, easier to manage, taller, or more fun to take on dates) without Microsoft, then I recommend you find another software company.

Can't? Well, then write your own.

Can't? Well, then we're back at square one. Now, who's fault is that? Mine? George Bush's? Angelina Jolie's? I'd say it's YOURS.

The point is, you've chosen MS for a reason. That reason is probably one of the following:

1. MS makes the most sense (most likely economically).
2. MS is the only possibile choice.

Now, when I go to dinner late at night, I usually end up at Jack in the Box. Why? Because it's cheap. Why else? Because it's the ONLY PLACE OPEN AT FOUR IN THE MORNING. So, do I get to complain because of my lack of options? And does my complaining make any more options appear? Now, I'd bet that if I was a smart buisnessman, and saw a large market for people who eat late, maybe I might start a late night food place thingee. And maybe Jack in the Box would put a store right next to mine. And maybe they'd lower their prices and put me out of buisness. Now, that would be illegal. And bad. But, just about anything else is pretty much...well...

say it with me folks: your problem.

 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,425
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so i guess it was a factory-town worker's problem back in the late 1800s early 1900s that he was mistreated by his employers too.
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,647
27
91
Originally posted by: ElFenix
so i guess it was a factory-town worker's problem back in the late 1800s early 1900s that he was mistreated by his employers too.

What's with the Anti-Microsoft fetish?
 

HendrixFan

Diamond Member
Oct 18, 2001
4,648
0
71
Microsoft has been twice convicted of illegally leveraging their monopoly power. The findings of fact in the case, upheld by the appellate court state that Microsoft was NOT a natural monopoly, rather they have set up many barriers to entry in the marketplace to gain their monopoly and maintain it. MS shut down choice from the OEMs in order to prevent viable alternatives to Windows.

Of course this quote from the findings of fact are particularly relevant to this discussion, especially considering the marketshare of OEMs:

"Although there is no legal secondary market for Microsoft's PC operating systems, there is a thriving illegal one. Software pirates illegally copy software products such as Windows, selling each copy for a fraction of the vendor's usual price. One of the ways Microsoft combats piracy is by advising OEMs that they will be charged a higher price for Windows unless they drastically limit the number of PCs that they sell without an operating system pre-installed. In 1998, all major OEMs agreed to this restriction. Naturally, it is hard to sell a pirated copy of Windows to a consumer who has already received a legal copy included in the price of his new PC system. Thus, Microsoft is able to effectively contain, if not extinguish, the illegal secondary market for its operating-system products. So even though Microsoft is more concerned about piracy than it is about other firms' operating system products, the company's pricing is not substantially constrained by the need to reduce the incentives for consumers to acquire their copies of Windows illegally."

When discussing the pricing behavior of MS for Windows, its clear that they are able to price without concern of competition. This quote is also relevant to the point shinerburke was trying to make:

"Finally, it is indicative of monopoly power that Microsoft felt that it had substantial discretion in setting the price of its Windows 98 upgrade product (the operating system product it sells to existing users of Windows 95). A Microsoft study from November 1997 reveals that the company could have charged $49 for an upgrade to Windows 98 ? there is no reason to believe that the $49 price would have been unprofitable ? but the study identifies $89 as the revenue-maximizing price. Microsoft thus opted for the higher price."

"Furthermore, Microsoft expends a significant portion of its monopoly power, which could otherwise be spent maximizing price, on imposing burdensome restrictions on its customers ? and in inducing them to behave in ways ? that augment and prolong that monopoly power. For example, Microsoft attaches to a Windows license conditions that restrict the ability of OEMs to promote software that Microsoft believes could weaken the applications barrier to entry. Microsoft also charges a lower price to OEMs who agree to ensure that all of their Windows machines are powerful enough to run Windows NT for Workstations. "


Now these are FACTS in the case, and the findings of fact were completely upheld by the appellate court.


 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,425
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Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: ElFenix
so i guess it was a factory-town worker's problem back in the late 1800s early 1900s that he was mistreated by his employers too.

What's with the Anti-Microsoft fetish?
its anti-monopoly, thanks.
 
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