Winter car suggestions, 4-8k

[jlee]

Update:
I bought an '06 Mazdaspeed6.

Looks like I might be doing a fair amount of snowy winter driving this year, and since I don't own anything that I want to see salt, I'm looking for something cheap to use for this purpose.

However, I don't do well with boring...so I prefer to avoid Corolla/Camry/etc.

Current thoughts-
2008+ CTS 3.6DI (unsure on long term reliability, but they are findable for 6-8k)
First gen Speed3
Saab 9-3 2.0T (super cheap)
Cobalt SS
V6 Accord w/6 speed?
Acura TSX (or whatever the manual trans optioned ones are)
Volvo S60R

The CTS-4 (AWD CTS) likes to strip the input/output shafts on the transfer case, so that's out. I don't mind RWD.

I'm open to a wide range, just prefer to have something I haven't owned yet.

So, collective knowledge of ATG....any thoughts?

 

[Crono]

Audi TT Quattro

Failing that, I'd probably get a 2005-2007 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT. I don't know if you've had one or if it's too bland, but it would be an affordable and good car for snow.

If you could find one: Celica All-Trac (aka Celica GT-Four)

 

[jlee]

Legacy GTs are nice. I had a Forester XT already, but if I found the right LGT I might think about it. A buddy had one and had tons of problems, though.

An alltrac would be a blast but if I found one in good shape, I wouldn't want to put it in salt

 

[MDE]

First gen Mazdaspeed6? Not sure if you can get one in the price range, but it'll get you AWD over the Speed3.

 

[jlee]

Seems pretty hard to find a manual Legacy GT in my price range. Speed6's can be found for 6-7k, hmm.

 

[Harrod]

I'd do a Saab 9-3 in a heartbeat if my wife would let me, I used to have a 9-5 Aero, and it did pretty well with the ice in the winter. It was just a pain to get parts for it. I'm under the impression that the 9-3's have quite a bit in common with the Cobalt platform. I ended up getting rid of the Saab before I got married, we didn't have room on the driveway for 4 cars.

Keep in mind though that the cobalt SS comes with an LSD, and the Saabs don't if thats an issue for you. Stick with the non-aero 9-3's if you choose to go this route, based on your previous car threads, the v6 version of the car is a pain to work on and there is little aftermarket support for the engine. Ideally if I was going to get one I would get the ARC model of the car.

 

[ballmode]

What about that Saab WRX? The 9-2X?

 

[_Rick_]

First gen S3 or S4?
Passat VR6?

How about a Volvo V70R? Or a boring V70XC

 

[jlee]

German cars scare me a little re: overall reliability. I'm kinda tempted to go 4Runner, but I've had two Tacomas, a Tundra, an LX450 and a GX470 so that's pretty similar to what I've already had.

I did a bunch of reading on the 9-3's a while back and the general consensus was to get a 2.0T over a 2.0t (different engine/turbo/fuel setup).

I haven't looked for V70R's. Hmm.

 

[NutBucket]

The haldex diff likes to go out on the Volvos so if you can accept it will be fwd you're all set.

 

[jlee]

Hmm. That would bother me - native FWD is okay, but broken AWD would not be cool.

I'm finding 9-3's stupid cheap. Like $2k for the 2l turbo. That might be hard to beat.

 

[mmntech]

FWD is going to give you better traction in snow and ice than RWD for sure. AWD is of course better but it's going to be a more expensive option.

Out of the ones listed, I've only driven the Accord and Cobalt. The Cobalt is a sack of crap on wheels, so the Accord is the hands down winner.

Subaru Legacy or an older Audi is probably a good pick if you want something AWD.

Audis, like all Volkswagens, can run into electrical issues but their engines and drivetrains seem fairly reliable. You can easily find third gen (B7) A4 2.0L Turbo Quattro with manual transmission for under $10,000.

 

[jlee]

Not too worried about RWD - I have years of driving Crown Vics and Chargers in northern NH, during storms and times the plows weren't running.

The CTS was Motor Trend's car of the year for 2008, but I'm not finding much on their long term reliability except the AWD models break and the motor can have timing chain problems (warranty extended to 10yr/120k).

 

[nitrous9200]

TSX looks like the best overall option out of that list in terms of dependability/reliability/easiness to work on - which matters since any one in that price range is going to have a ton of miles.

We have two 9-3's in the family, a 2003 Arc (2.0T) and 2006 Aero (v6), so it's the only one I can comment on with any good information.

They have common problems for sure, but there's a ton of DIY info out there (saabcentral forums) and parts are easy to come by in my experience (eeuroparts). I'm willing to bet they are more reliable than similar German cars of that vintage (no sludge or complete cooling system overhauls necessary). You can check out the forums to get a better sense of this, but the powertrains have proven to be dependable on the whole and many electrical gremlins can be solved with a new battery (it gets cooked with the engine bay heat).

2003-2006 were visually pretty similar, 2007 got a new dashboard, and 2008-2011 had a face lifted exterior. 2003 had some unique problems as the first model year; not a huge deal IMO, but you should probably go newer unless you can get a bargain.

There is a problem with intake valves on the 2007 and newer cars (with the 2 liter) that causes a hard start when cold. Since you mentioned winter driving, there was also a recall in rust belt states because the front springs were prone to snapping; you should check if that was done.

I think a 2005 or 2006 2.0T would serve you well.

 

[pete6032]

you want a "winter" car but you're looking at cars that are not 4WD/AWD?

Really do you want a winter car or do you just feel like using this as an excuse to buy another car?

 

[_Rick_]

you want a "winter" car but you're looking at cars that are not 4WD/AWD?

A winter car, because it sees salt and sludge, not because of issues getting ahead in snow.
Chains are lower maintenance and cheaper than 4 WD and will get you out of/through snow more of the time.

 

[mmntech]

you want a "winter" car but you're looking at cars that are not 4WD/AWD?

Really do you want a winter car or do you just feel like using this as an excuse to buy another car?

Lol. No kidding. Well he is in Arizona. Don't know what salt and grime he's talking about. Do they roads even ice over down there?

RWD is doable but you do have to be extra careful. Most cars are not 50/50, even some of the ones that claim to be. So you do need to weigh down the back axle and have tires with good tread. I used to drive a lot of panel vans in the winter and they're utterly terifying on bad roads when they're empty.

For a winter car, FWD is the better option if you don't want to spend the extra on AWD.

 

[cabri]

you want a "winter" car but you're looking at cars that are not 4WD/AWD?

Really do you want a winter car or do you just feel like using this as an excuse to buy another car?

A winter car, because it sees salt and sludge, not because of issues getting ahead in snow.
Chains are lower maintenance and cheaper than 4 WD and will get you out of/through snow more of the time.

Chains are not usually allowed for where they are not needed.
They tear up the roads and are uncomfortable to drive with on clean pavement.
I have a set of chains in present vehicles just in case and will put them on when 4" has come down and roads have not been cleaned.

Lol. No kidding. Well he is in Arizona. Don't know what salt and grime he's talking about. Do they roads even ice over down there?

RWD is doable but you do have to be extra careful. Most cars are not 50/50, even some of the ones that claim to be. So you do need to weigh down the back axle and have tires with good tread. I used to drive a lot of panel vans in the winter and they're utterly terifying on bad roads when they're empty.

For a winter car, FWD is the better option if you don't want to spend the extra on AWD.

I got the impression (unsure how) that he will have to go to areas where there is actual white stuff (North of I40) and salt is used.

• Tire tread is primary, no matter what vehicle you will use.
• Then common sense
• Also, if the vehicle gets salted, run through a complete car wash as soon as the temps get above freezing

I have used RWD ('89 Pontiac), FWD ('07 Mirage) and AWD/4WD (Jeeps) in Colorado with no issues.

 

[pete6032]

A winter car, because it sees salt and sludge, not because of issues getting ahead in snow.
Chains are lower maintenance and cheaper than 4 WD and will get you out of/through snow more of the time.

What does road salt and "sludge" have to do with anything? Do you think all cars driven in winter weather automatically start rusting out? My car is a 2001 and it's lived it's entire life parked outside in Minnesota and Wisconsin and it doesn't have any rust on it.

 

[_Rick_]

What does road salt and "sludge" have to do with anything? Do you think all cars driven in winter weather automatically start rusting out? My car is a 2001 and it's lived it's entire life parked outside in Minnesota and Wisconsin and it doesn't have any rust on it.

If you have a throw-away car, you don't need to be quite as diligent in anti-rust maintenance, as with your crown-jewel MR2

 

[Viper GTS]

What does road salt and "sludge" have to do with anything? Do you think all cars driven in winter weather automatically start rusting out? My car is a 2001 and it's lived it's entire life parked outside in Minnesota and Wisconsin and it doesn't have any rust on it.

Coming from someone who has lived in both salt states (Pennsylvania, New Jersey) and no salt states (Oregon) - Yes, salt destroys the vast majority of cars save the few that are fully galvanized from the factory.

If you own a car from a no salt state you understand this and would never willingly expose it to that garbage. Buy a car you don't care about, lease one you can walk away from, whatever. Just don't expose a car you care about to that.

Viper GTS

 

[cabri]

Salt will not generate rust when the temp is below freezing.

Getting the salt off as soon as possible after a thaw is best.

I find it amusing when the self service car washes are full of people after a day of driving after a storm. Until the roads are cleared, they are not doing anything but self gratification. :biggrin:

 

[jlee]

If you have a throw-away car, you don't need to be quite as diligent in anti-rust maintenance, as with your crown-jewel MR2

Yup. Or my GX470, which came from New Mexico and now lives in AZ. I plan on keeping both of those for a while and I'd rather have a throwaway car I can just sell when I'm done with it, instead of starting irreversible permanent damage on something that lives in the desert.

What does road salt and "sludge" have to do with anything? Do you think all cars driven in winter weather automatically start rusting out? My car is a 2001 and it's lived it's entire life parked outside in Minnesota and Wisconsin and it doesn't have any rust on it.

I can practically guarantee you don't work on your own car. Try taking your exhaust off and tell me it hasn't rusted.

Lol. No kidding. Well he is in Arizona. Don't know what salt and grime he's talking about. Do they roads even ice over down there?

RWD is doable but you do have to be extra careful. Most cars are not 50/50, even some of the ones that claim to be. So you do need to weigh down the back axle and have tires with good tread. I used to drive a lot of panel vans in the winter and they're utterly terifying on bad roads when they're empty.

For a winter car, FWD is the better option if you don't want to spend the extra on AWD.

I'm going to be in NJ next winter.

Re: RWD not being ideal for snow, I am aware. I was a police officer in northern NH for years. I'm not worried about RWD + snow...I did that for a living, during hours the snowplows don't run.

 

[cabri]

Y

I'm going to be in NJ next winter.

Re: RWD not being ideal for snow, I am aware. I was a police officer in northern NH for years. I'm not worried about RWD + snow...I did that for a living, during hours the snowplows don't run.

Amazing how many RWD vehicles existed from the 1920s thru the 1980s (when the foreign imports really arrived that were FWD)

The snow belt states did not shut down during the winter

 

[Jumpem]

Any Subaru.