Winter tires?

[NetWareHead]

I have a diesel golf and my experiences with my previous diesel jetta in the winter had been less than stellar. The car is heavy on the front end and struggles to climb snow covered hills. In truth, Im not expecting 4wd performance but the fact that I was stuck on some moderate to light inclines has lead me to begin searching for remedies.

My local tire place has begun offering deal on snow tires and Im seriously considering.

1. Should I get 4 new snow tires and keep my existing rims; using these rims for my all season and winter tires? I received advice that I should get 4 beater rims for the winter for reasons of salt exposure and expected chance of sliding into curbs etc... Also, when remounting tires on rims, do they need to be rebalanced?

2. Size? Buy same size tires as currently mounted on my car or go with less wide tires?

3. Studded are available and wondering if I should go this route. At the very least I want an aggressive winter tire, Im still on the fence about studding them. They are legal in my state and neighboring states where I travel. I do roughly a 70 mile commute each day and was advised to not get studs for noise reasons. I also do make frequent trips up north to go skiing/hiking and do sometimes encounter worse winter conditions than where I live. I live in NH where winters are a real deal. Roads are usually well plowed unless a serious storm. Ice on roadways is a concern at times. What do you guys think about studs?

4. Storage in the off season? I was going to store each tire in a garbage bag in my basement and leave them until time to use them next winter season.

5. What about rotation etc... Im guessing I would have to keep track of mileage and placement on the vehicle on the winter set specifically and then decide when reinstalling them, what corner of the car they should go.

 

[Viper GTS]

1) It's cheaper long term to get a second set of wheels. You can buy pre-mounted and balanced sets from TireRack shipped right to your door. IMO the steel beater wheels aren't really worth it when you can get cheap aluminum wheels for not too much more (around $30 per wheel for clearance aluminum wheels typically). So you're looking at $400 in wheels vs $280 or so for wheels that will look better and won't rust. You'll pay $20+ per wheel to dismount and remount tires seasonally, having a second set of wheels pays for itself quickly - As in within the lifespan of your very first set of snow tires. Yes rebalancing is necessary each time a tire is put on a wheel. With a second set of wheels and a floor jack you can swap your own wheels in your garage vs lugging them all to a shop.

2) Generally narrower is better, but that's more applicable to performance cars with wide summer tires. For something like a Golf I might not bother. See what TireRack recommends.

3) Studs can be problematic. NH appears to allow them with no date restrictions which is very unusual nationally. Many states/municipalities outright ban them because they are hell on roads. Studless ice and snow tires exist, IMO they're the preferable choice but I've never lived in a serious snow region.

4) That's fine. TireRack also sells some wheel covers that provide handles for moving them. They're worth having around and work well on normal sized tires like you'd find on a Golf.

https://www.tirerack.com/accessories/detail.jsp?ID=216

5) I track mileage on my tire sets for sure. I don't always rotate mid season, that's highly dependent upon the annual mileage. You don't need to track which were where across seasons, when you swap just put the deepest treads on the front. Buy a tread depth gauge if you want to be really precise.

https://www.amazon.com/Pumpkin-Digi.../B01N5PZ7DJ/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1505397686

Viper GTS

 

[NetWareHead]

3) Studs can be problematic. NH appears to allow them with no date restrictions which is very unusual nationally. Many states/municipalities outright ban them because they are hell on roads. Studless ice and snow tires exist, IMO they're the preferable choice but I've never lived in a serious snow region.

We can only have studded tires in the winter months. I believe sometime around April 15, they need to be removed.

My only concern is what kind of road noise will I be forced to put up with? Is it that much of a concern? I know noise levels and individual tolerances are highly subjective and up to the individual. Anybody had them and regretted? Or glad they put them on?

And for the disadvantage in noise, is it worth the added performance? I know Im going to get snow tires; its the added option of studs that has me pausing (and at $15 dollars per tire to add them on, cheap enough where price is not even an issue).

 

[RLGL]

The car is heavy on the front end and struggles to climb snow covered hills.

Had this with a Dodge Neon and a Honda Civic. Both with new tires.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

1. Should I get 4 new snow tires and keep my existing rims; using these rims for my all season and winter tires?

Get different Rims. I got a set of steel basic wheels and had my TPMS sensors clones to go in them. The winters sit on that. The tires need to be balanced every time they're changed. So Dismount / Mount / Balance will easily eat up your savings on the wheels.

2. Size? Buy same size tires as currently mounted on my car or go with less wide tires?

I buy what lets me be cheapest. My Impreza came with with 17" Alloys, so I actually found the 15" base model steel wheels on a totaled 2013 and bought the wheels off that. The tires are *much* cheaper, and the sidewall is much taller (which is great for the unknown things you bump into in heavy snow or ice). Plus if I do ever slide our or hit a curb or something, worst I'm out is a cheap steel wheel and not the expensive factory alloys.

3. Studded are available and wondering if I should go this route. At the very least I want an aggressive winter tire, Im still on the fence about studding them. They are legal in my state and neighboring states where I travel.

Studs are bar none the best snow handling tire. Noise is atrocious. Also keep in mind that studded tires at high speeds on dry pavement are worthless. Not only are your studs being worn out quickly, but you have much less traction than even a well worn tire. Emergency stopping at high speeds is very risky on studded tires. If you're using studded tires, you should be limiting yourself to sane speeds.

4. Storage in the off season? I was going to store each tire in a garbage bag in my basement and leave them until time to use them next winter season.

I store the tires for my 2 cars in the basement. they sit on the floor with a 6 ft. 2x4 in front of them to keep them in place. Every couple of months I roll them a little to make sure flat spots don't develop (but I've never found it to be an issue).

5. What about rotation etc... Im guessing I would have to keep track of mileage and placement on the vehicle on the winter set specifically and then decide when reinstalling them, what corner of the car they should go.

I put just enough miles on each set that it's usually right around time for them to be rotated. Either way, I have the corner written in chalk (RL, RR, etc) when they come off the car. They're installed in their normal swapped position on the next go-around. I do the same with my all-seasons when they're off the car.

Included my answers in the quote

 

[PricklyPete]

I think studless is the way to go unless you are in pretty much non-stop snow and ice during the winter. When the roads are dry, the studded tires are much worse. Studless is a much better compromise.

Definitely get them. Normal size will be fine for your golf.

 

[PricklyPete]

Had this with a Dodge Neon and a Honda Civic. Both with new tires.

Weight on the front end (drive end) is a plus, not a minus. It is the open differential and All Season tires that are your issue.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Maybe smart option is to buy studless winter tires and keep a set of tire chains in the trunk/hatchback area?
If you go up into the mountains, then put the chains on for your trip, otherwise, for day to day, you can use the regular winter tires without the studs?

 

[PricklyPete]

Maybe smart option is to buy studless winter tires and keep a set of tire chains in the trunk/hatchback area?
If you go up into the mountains, then put the chains on for your trip, otherwise, for day to day, you can use the regular winter tires without the studs?

This.

 

[PricklyPete]

Very valuable information. I usually get "summer" tires for my BMW but that is because it snows like one time a year where I live. I have never had issues and they end up saving me a little bit of money. I know you are all going to say why are you saving money with a BMW but it was purchased used and every penny helps. Slam me anyway, I am an idiot for buying a BMW.

Just because you have money, does not mean you should spend it frivolously. No reason to be ashamed that you bought a BMW or that you try to save money where you can.

If you said you were not maintaining your BMW because it was too expensive...well that is a different story.

 

[Crono]

I got by last winter with Continental DWS tires on my Fiata (rear wheel drive). Those or Nokian WRGs would probably be sufficient except in icy conditions on steeper slopes.

Not as good as true winter tires, of course, but without the hassle of changing tires/wheels entering and exiting winter, which is a pain, especially if winters can sometimes be mild where you are.

 

[nk215]

l have winter tire/wheel for three of my winter vehicles including 2 awd suvs. They make a huge different in traction and breaking distance.

 

[NetWareHead]

Maybe smart option is to buy studless winter tires and keep a set of tire chains in the trunk/hatchback area?
If you go up into the mountains, then put the chains on for your trip, otherwise, for day to day, you can use the regular winter tires without the studs?

I like this option. Allows me to put on chains only if and when I need them for the worst of conditions. Thanks all for the responses.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Just realize that it's a pretty big PITA to put on the chains ... and may be extra difficult to do that unless you have a garage or a place where it's easy to jack up your car even if there's 10 feet of snow on the ground ...

 

[NetWareHead]

Just realize that it's a pretty big PITA to put on the chains ... and may be extra difficult to do that unless you have a garage or a place where it's easy to jack up your car even if there's 10 feet of snow on the ground ...

Ive never put them on so I dont know what exactly to expect. It probably is as unpleasant as changing a tire in the snow. Except you have to do it to all 4 tires, not just one. And then do it in reverse when its time to remove them.

Still, everyone I have spoken to says that the noise from studded tires is very loud to the point of being annoying and you have to live with this for the entire time the tires stay on. Plus the performance of studs on dry pavement, less traction, forces you to travel slower and braking that can upset the balance of the car, all things to keep in mind. I've somewhat come to the realization that while NH does experience pretty nasty winters, this is still not the Yukon or Alaska. There are going to be points in time during the winter where we can go days or weeks without snow/ice. So perhaps studs might be a bit overkill. Chains, while a big pain in the ass, are probably going to be better than using studs all winter long. Not 100% sure, but this is the logic I have employed to arrive at this decision, so I hope I'm right.

 

[ChronoReverse]

There are quick chains that can be put on fairly easily nowadays. I would presume they're not as durable as regular chains but as an emergency measure they should be fine: https://www.lesschwab.com/learn/article/how-to-put-on-snow-chains-and-drive-safely

 

[herm0016]

We live in the front range of CO and ski about every other weekend in the winter.

we have studless snows on dedicated wheels for our 4x4 truck and our Volt. I got used wheels for winter on the truck off an older escalade for 200 bucks, we bought new, fun enkei's that are very light weight for the volt for summer and use the stock wheels for the winter. Blizzak dmv-1 for the truck and Altimax's on the volt. I also carry cables in the truck, I have never had to use them.


to install chains, you don't have to jack anything up. The modern cables for cars are very easy to install. I have chained up cranes and big rigs for years, the duels are a pita.

peerless makes a good set of cables that meet or exceed S class requirements.

 

[teejee]

Use studless winter tires but choose the best ones. Nokian Hakkapaliitta R2:
https://www.google.se/amp/s/www.digitaltrends.com/cars/nokian-hakkapeliitta-r2-hands-on/amp/

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

 

[JCH13]

I grew up and live in NH and have had a FWD winter car my entire adult life, and an open-differential no-TCS RWD car when I was a teenager. I am also a serious skiier who never missed a powder day in school.

I strongly recommend the following:

-Have a different set of wheels with snows always mounted. Why? At ~$60-100 per season to change tires your ROI can be 2-4 years, you can change to snows yourself (or have a fast cheap appointment to do so), storage space isn't different, and you can under-size your snow wheels.

-Smallest aluminum wheels that you can fit on your car for winter tires. Why? Smaller wheel diameter keeps snow from building up inside the drum and causing vibration, reduces the cost of winter tires, and the extra sidewall smooths out all those frost heaves and other road imperfections. Steel wheels rust and then leak and are heavy. Two things that are bad for wheels.

-Decent snow tires that are slightly narrower than OE. Why? Going a little narrower helps the tire deal with deeper snow and reduces tire cost. You don't need to go all-in on the best rubber you can find, but don't get the cheapest shit either. Altimax Arctic is a great budget-friendly tire with good all-around performance. Nearly any snow tire is going to outperform the absolute best all-seasons in the winter by a hilarious margin.

-Don't stud them. Why? In NH, as most other states, the roads are clear a vast majority of the time so studs are loud, like really loud. The only time studs help is on ice, which is uncommon even in NH. Salt, sand, and sunlight keep ice to a minimum. Everyone else is going to have near-zero traction on ice, so you're always better off staying home when there is ice on the road (yeah, okay, your studs let you stop at the stop sign, but that delivery truck behind you still couldn't...). Cons far outweigh the pros for studs!

-Keep TPMS functionality. Why? They're there for a safety reason, no one wants to check tire pressures in the cold in NH, and fluctuating temperatures can result in low tire pressures.

I have literally never found the need for chains in NH. I don't own any, wouldn't suggest someone needs to get them, and have never been stuck for lack of chains. A decent winter tire setup is all you need!

 

[NetWareHead]

snip

Thanks, thats great. Someone from NH who skis maybe as much as I do! Weekly ski trips and 50+ ski days a year are relatively common for me plus more trips for hiking/snowshoeing in the winter. I'm up north in the Whites practically every weekend when there is snow even during bad snowstorms. Sometimes even as far away as Maine (Sugarloaf & Sunday River) or Vermont (Okemo, Killington Jay Peak etc...). I have been stuck a few times and some snowmobilers passing by stopped and gave me a push, saving my ass. Although most of the times I just dug myself out with a shovel and spread some kitty litter to get some traction.

I'll try to get the smallest rims I can find, see what can fit around my brake calipers. Good point on the aluminum vs steel.

I figured my tendency to venture out during falling snow would make chains a worthy investment. Maybe I'll see how I fare on the winter tires first before investing in chains...

Im pretty sure I have P225/45R 17s although could be P225/40R 17. Do you think I should downgrade to a 205 or even smaller winter tire?

 

[JCH13]

Thanks, thats great. Someone from NH who skis maybe as much as I do! Weekly ski trips and 50+ ski days a year are relatively common for me plus more trips for hiking/snowshoeing in the winter. I'm up north in the Whites practically every weekend when there is snow even during bad snowstorms. Sometimes even as far away as Maine (Sugarloaf & Sunday River) or Vermont (Okemo, Killington Jay Peak etc...). I have been stuck a few times and some snowmobilers passing by stopped and gave me a push, saving my ass. Although most of the times I just dug myself out with a shovel and spread some kitty litter to get some traction.

I'll try to get the smallest rims I can find, see what can fit around my brake calipers. Good point on the aluminum vs steel.

I figured my tendency to venture out during falling snow would make chains a worthy investment. Maybe I'll see how I fare on the winter tires first before investing in chains...

Im pretty sure I have P225/45R 17s although could be P225/40R 17. Do you think I should downgrade to a 205 or even smaller winter tire?

Heh, unfortunately I don't ski as much as I used to... but in ye olden days 50+ sounds right!

Fording snow in a low-ish sedan will usually just get you into trouble with ground clearance. Snow can pack up under the vehicle and high-center you. Chains will only be of marginal help in these situations. But if they're not terribly expensive it won't be a bummer to get them even if you never use them. The best tools for deep snow recovery are a shovel and a tow strap, and perhaps a comealong if you're alone.

My MS3 is a 215/45-18 OE tire size. I run 225/45-18 in the summer and 205/55-16 in the winter. I wouldn't venture below 10-20mm narrower. Tread life and weight ratings will start to be a serious concern.

 

[herm0016]

i am a big fan of my Maxtrax and they live in our truck for the winter. I have gotten others out of a few spots with just those, that would otherwise have required a yank with a strap. they even fit under the volt. For self recovery, i really don't think there is anything better and there are a few cheaper copycats out there now, that would be fine for a car.

 

[JCH13]

i am a big fan of my Maxtrax and they live in our truck for the winter. I have gotten others out of a few spots with just those, that would otherwise have required a yank with a strap. they even fit under the volt. For self recovery, i really don't think there is anything better and there are a few cheaper copycats out there now, that would be fine for a car.

I was browsing amazon for things like MaxTrax, and there really are a lot of options. These ones seemed pretty decent, especially for the money.

 

[herm0016]

heh.... the tred ones are well thought of. the smittybuilt ones are a direct ripoff of the first maxtrax and have been known to not stand up as well as the original. I have the v2 max trax and i have used them stacked as a bridging ladder for my truck with the slide in on it, about 7k lbs total. Im sure they may work, but i dont think they will work any better than a peice of 2x6 or a floor mat, and if they get any real weight on them, i would bet they break in half.

wow, i did not know there were so many knockoffs now! I am not sure i would trust a cheepie with a truck, but on a car i think its worth trying.


this one even stole the pictures from the originals..... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073FB9TX2?psc=1

 

[JCH13]

I think for clawing out of snow they won't need much strength. They're very well-supported, unlike bridging applications!