Wireless Carriers Chip Away at Phone Subsidies

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
6,674
7
76
Wireless carriers are taking their first steps to change the terms of smartphone deals that have mostly benefited phone makers like Apple Inc., in a push that could leave consumers paying more for devices like the iPhone.
Carriers in the U.S. have been raising monthly rates and charging higher fees when customers upgrade to new phones. In Europe, embattled carriers are taking more aggressive measures: Spain's two leading wireless companies are refusing to subsidize devices for new customers.
In the global wireless market, where device manufacturers such as Apple and Samsung Electronics Co. and software makers like Google Inc. continue to hold considerable sway, carriers still typically pay full price for their phones, then sell them at deep discounts to customers who sign two-year contracts.
But the carriers' latest signs of resistance are drawing applause from investors and analysts. They say the carriers could benefit more from the smartphone boom if they succeed in raising prices for service plans and slowing the rate at which customers buy new phones.
"Optimism has increased that we are witnessing the leading edge of a more disciplined, and more profitable, future," Craig Moffett, a telecom analyst at Bernstein Research, wrote in a research note on Tuesday. The question now, he wrote, is how much carriers can increase their profits thanks to "increased discipline and pricing power."
At Sprint Nextel Corp., AT&T Inc., and Verizon Communications Inc., combined revenue from contract customers increased 6.2% from a year earlier in the first quarter of 2012, the fastest growth rate since before the recession, according to Bernstein Research. In the past month, AT&T and Verizon shares have gained more than 5%, while the broader market, as measured by the Standard & Poor's 500-stock index, is down 1%. Verizon Communications co-owns Verizon Wireless with Vodafone Group PLC.



Apple, meanwhile, is in the opposite situation. Its shares are down 12% from their April 10 record of $644, partly because of investor concerns that carriers may be looking to ratchet back the big subsidies that have allowed so many people to own an iPhone.
Apple Chief Executive Tim Cook has played down concerns that changes in subsidy policies could affect iPhone sales. He told analysts last month that carriers will continue supporting the iPhone because it brings them satisfied customers. Carriers "want to provide what their customers want to buy," he said. He argued that the Spanish market, which is reeling from Europe's economic crisis, "shouldn't be viewed as a proxy for the world."
Wireless carriers shell out $400 for every iPhone sold, analysts estimate.
Now, carriers are adding fees to discourage customers from getting new phones. Verizon imposed a $30 upgrade fee for some customers last month, and both AT&T and Sprint have doubled their upgrade fees to $36 in recent months. Customers pay the fees when they get a new phone.
"It will have a meaningful impact on us in managing those handset costs," AT&T Chief Financial Officer John Stephens said on a conference call with analysts last month.
Monthly rates for smartphone service plans have been rising, too. In January, AT&T boosted some monthly data plans by $5, or as much as 33%, while giving consumers more data. In April, pay-as-you-go carrier MetroPCS Communications Corp. raised its unlimited high-speed data plan to $70 from $60. Sprint raised smartphone data prices early last year by $10 a month.
Amid the smartphone craze, much of the profits are bypassing wireless carriers, going instead to app developers and Internet companies like Google, which charge for services and sell ads, and hardware companies like Apple, which sold 35 million iPhones in the first three months of this year.
That's why U.S. companies are closely watching the wireless industry's experiment in Spain. There, leading wireless carrier Telefónica SA stopped subsidizing phones for new customers in March. The No. 2 carrier, Vodafone, quickly followed suit. The No. 3 carrier, France Télécom SA's Orange Group, refused to go along.
As a result, new customers at Vodafone and Telefónica can no longer get an iPhone for a discounted rate with a two-year contract. Instead, they have to pay nearly $800 to buy the phone outright or sign up for an installment plan that, at Telefónica, adds 18 monthly payments of about $45 to their bills.
Telefónica and Vodafone, which have made the decision to shift resources from acquiring customers to retaining them, say they will continue to subsidize new phones for existing customers that upgrade. Still, the policy change will reduce Telefonica's spending on device subsidies by 25%, a spokesman said.
"People didn't know the effort we were making," a Telefónica spokesman said.
Orange's Spanish operations declined to comment.
For Telefónica and Vodafone, the risks is that Orange will seize the opening to try to win over customers with cheaper, subsidized phones. And, in fact, Orange has said it hopes to use its competitors' moves to increase its market share in Spain.
The industry is watching to see how well Vodafone and Telefónica hold on to customers, as a test of whether other carriers around the world might be able to wriggle free of the subsidy model.
Verizon Communications Chief Executive Lowell McAdam mentioned Telefónica's installment-plan experiment in an interview with The Wall Street Journal in late March. Verizon Wireless, he said, may cautiously follow the Spanish carrier's lead.
"We'll probably offer some things like that, and then we'll see what the adoption is like," Mr. McAdam said. "You can't push this on customers before customers are ready for it."
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...yu2aBA&usg=AFQjCNEaP_Lku-Y6C2HlwdWzrupBKaafDg

Not sure if this is a good or bad thing...:hmm:
Actually, looking at that picture, it's bad.
 
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Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
5,723
325
126
Getting rid of subsidies- Good in the long run.
Getting rid of subsidies and not lowering plan prices- ludicrous.

They have to give the consumer something, even if it doesn't add up to what the subsidy was over the life of the plan. Great thing is that it allow competition strictly base on monthly rates then. Move carriers if their service sucks, or data speeds drop (hello sprint!)
 

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
6,674
7
76
Getting rid of subsidies- Good in the long run.
Getting rid of subsidies and not lowering plan prices- ludicrous.

They have to give the consumer something, even if it doesn't add up to what the subsidy was over the life of the plan. Great thing is that it allow competition strictly base on monthly rates then. Move carriers if their service sucks, or data speeds drop (hello sprint!)
I'm guessing all the carriers will do is throw in something like an extra GB or two data allowance for good measure.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
They say the carriers could benefit more from the smartphone boom if they succeed in raising prices for service plans and slowing the rate at which customers buy new phones.

Such as releasing software and OS updates? :/
 

alent1234

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2002
3,915
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Carriers are dumb, news at 11

If AT&T makes it too much of a pain for me to uPgrade I'll go to Verizon

Contracts and subsidies aren't going away
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
Carriers are dumb, news at 11

If AT&T makes it too much of a pain for me to uPgrade I'll go to Verizon

Contracts and subsidies aren't going away

Course not. But you'll see the price of 2yr contract phones creep from 199 to 299, then to 349, then to 399. Possibly higher. Possibly with a 3yr contract. And all with a tidy 2GB data plan.
 

alent1234

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2002
3,915
0
0
And unless the resale values compensate I won't upgrade every 2 years or less. Or someone will figure out how to build one cheaper. After all costs Are added in it costs Apple around $300 or so to make an iPhone 4s
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
And unless the resale values compensate I won't upgrade every 2 years or less. Or someone will figure out how to build one cheaper. After all costs Are added in it costs Apple around $300 or so to make an iPhone 4s

And Apple&Carriers would love to sell it to you for 399, with a 3yr contract, at 120/month, with a 2Gb data plan, with $10/GB overage fees.
 

alent1234

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2002
3,915
0
0
It's a lot harder to sell something than it sounds. I can see the carriers enforcing the 2 year upgrade policy. Depends on the carrier. AT&T and Verizon will need to run financial models with estimated contract end dates and numbers to see if it's worth it playing hard with apple

Do people in Europe with byod really upgrade every 2 years or less?


This year I might just upgrade at the same time as my wife to make it easier to switch next time. Family plans are a pain in the ass to cancel because the contract end dates are spread out
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,480
8,339
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Why is anyone still going with contract plans with all of the prepaid options out there today?

Other than T-Mobile and a runaround of work, what BYOD, pay as you go carrier supports iPhones or even some of the premium Android devices? And it's not like you save much money, if any anyway if you include the subsidy that AT&T and Verizon provide on the high end devices.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,688
2,810
126
Other than T-Mobile and a runaround of work, what BYOD, pay as you go carrier supports iPhones or even some of the premium Android devices? And it's not like you save much money, if any anyway if you include the subsidy that AT&T and Verizon provide on the high end devices.

Straight Talk. $45 a month, unlimited talk, text, ~2gb monthly data. Works with any GSM phone.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,480
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Straight Talk. $45 a month, unlimited talk, text, ~2gb monthly data. Works with any GSM phone.

Uses T-Mobile and AT&T networks right? I'm in the midwest and it's almost entirely better covered by Verizon in my experience. I don't know a single person that has T-Mobile. I know one or two AT&T people, but they were 3GS iPhone users that moved to Verizon once it got the iPhone 4. I'm in a heavily entrenched Verizon, US Cellular and Sprint market.
 

ilkhan

Golden Member
Jul 21, 2006
1,117
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Do people in Europe with byod really upgrade every 2 years or less?
Don't know. But it seems like itd be a lot easier to sell a phone when you want to upgrade in an environment where people are used to paying full price and frequencies/compatibility aren't issues.

Getting rid of subsidies- Good in the long run.
Getting rid of subsidies and not lowering plan prices- ludicrous.

They have to give the consumer something, even if it doesn't add up to what the subsidy was over the life of the plan. Great thing is that it allow competition strictly base on monthly rates then. Move carriers if their service sucks, or data speeds drop (hello sprint!)
I never noticed slow CDMA speeds on Sprint, the ludacrisly expensive monthly charge (per minute used, especially) was enough to convince me to switch. I think I was paying around $5 per minute for a smartphone, as little as I use my phone for voice. Now I pay something like $1 per minute. Much better.

Carriers may love increased monthly charges, but the customers will rebel at some point.

The ideal carrier would be a dumb (unlimited) pipe on ATTs frequencies and T-mobile's prices. Too bad it will probably never happen. Although the 1900Mhz transition for T-Mo does give some hope.
 
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lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
6,674
7
76
It's a lot harder to sell something than it sounds. I can see the carriers enforcing the 2 year upgrade policy. Depends on the carrier. AT&T and Verizon will need to run financial models with estimated contract end dates and numbers to see if it's worth it playing hard with apple

Do people in Europe with byod really upgrade every 2 years or less?


This year I might just upgrade at the same time as my wife to make it easier to switch next time. Family plans are a pain in the ass to cancel because the contract end dates are spread out
Why would they need to? Where will the iPhone users run to if the carriers did that?
Sprint with their shitty network? T-Mobile doesn't have any iPhones unless you can pay $600-700 out of pocket for one. Most Americans live their lives on credit. Most of them won't be able to purchase iPhones or Samsung Galaxy phones out of pocket.

If AT&T raises prices to play hard with Apple, Verizon would immediately follow suit. Followed possibly by Sprint.

Ultimately, the carriers will endup looking at what happens in Spain with regards to Telefónica and Vodafone.
Also, remember that Vodafone owns a 45% stake in Verizon wireless. No doubt they could try to implement this same thing here and learn from whatever mistakes they make in Spain since they will have first hand access to information about it's success/failure.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,061
6,640
136
Not a big deal. Phones are getting to the point where there's no reason you couldn't keep the same phone for more than two years. In the past, I've held on to phones for as long as five years. Granted, they were dumb phones, but as long as they still worked it wasn't a big deal.

As long as the software updates are still available it shouldn't be a big issue for phones either. Apple has usually been pretty good about keeping their older models updated with the latest version of iOS. Android handset manufacturers less so, but there's usually still good custom ROM support for older devices so really it's not a big issue for most Android phones either.
 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,950
569
136
My inlaws and I split $180 for a 4 line family plan on AT&T. Why go to straight talk?

Are you skipping data? Texting? If someone did 700 minutes (the min to do 4 lines) that is $70 right there, + $30 per line for 3GB data for $120 then another $30 for extra line fees then another $20 for unlimited texting on the account. So that's basically no minutes across 4 lines for $230.

That's why for most people... AT&T is charging $40 just for 3GB /w & extra line fees.

Not saying it fits for everyone. But for many people pre paid is becoming a MUCH better option.
 

alent1234

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2002
3,915
0
0
$180 includes data for 2 iPhones and they have 2 dumb phones

And once family data plans come I'll hook my father in law with an iphone
 

Headcase_Fargone

Senior member
Nov 20, 2009
388
0
0
$180 includes data for 2 iPhones and they have 2 dumb phones

And once family data plans come I'll hook my father in law with an iphone

And for the same price you could get data on four smartphones with Straight Talk. And not have to worry about anyone hogging minutes. Why would you go with an AT&T family plan?
 

Denithor

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2004
6,298
23
81
Not saying it fits for everyone. But for many people pre paid is becoming a MUCH better option.

+1

Just made the jump from Verizon to Page Plus Cellular. Previously shared pool of 1400 minutes/month, unlimited texting, "unlimited" data at $90/month. Now have unlimited talk+text and 1GB data for $55/month. Kept my current 1st gen Incredible (3G), everything works great.

If you can live with a slightly older phone the money you can save is really nice. In my case, dropped from $2160 ($90*24) for two years of service down to $1320 ($55*24), a net savings of $840 over two years. And looking around eBay you can find like new phones from 1 generation back for <$200 (girlfriend just got a Droid 3 for $180).
 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,950
569
136
+1

Just made the jump from Verizon to Page Plus Cellular. Previously shared pool of 1400 minutes/month, unlimited texting, "unlimited" data at $90/month. Now have unlimited talk+text and 1GB data for $55/month. Kept my current 1st gen Incredible (3G), everything works great.

If you can live with a slightly older phone the money you can save is really nice. In my case, dropped from $2160 ($90*24) for two years of service down to $1320 ($55*24), a net savings of $840 over two years. And looking around eBay you can find like new phones from 1 generation back for <$200 (girlfriend just got a Droid 3 for $180).

And with the gnex low pricing ($400) even if you want a new phone it still make financial sense.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,480
8,339
126
I would consider page plus, but again it's just not enough of an incentive to switch. For example, I've got two iPhones, a 700 minute family plan, two 500 text packages, an unlimited data plan and a 3 gig data plan. I pay $125 a month for that with an employer discount at VZW.

With page plus I'd lose the ability to use the iPhones, I'd take a massive hit to data limits, and my wife would lose 2 gig of data use to save $15 a month.

Just not worth it.
 
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