wireless N worth it?

[tornadog]

How good is a wireless N router if all my devices have built in wireless b/g adapers in them? Would I notice any benefit over a simple wireless g router like the linksys wrt54gl which I presently have.

 

[Eug]

You would notice no increase in speed at all if your clients do not support 802.11n.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Probably not. The hardware might be a bit better, but I wouldn't count on it.

The biggest benefit I see in 11n right now is the use of 5ghz. And that seems to come with a bit of a price increase.

 

[JackMDS]

If you are you using your Wireless at very close range and need additional Local bandwidth then Draft_N (there is NO 802.11n) Router and a matching card would provide some help.

Otherwise you are just financially support Hardware manufacturers that do not care about their clients and prefer to stay as long as possible in a draft stage to bilk more money from the ignorant market.

 

[ccbadd]

Originally posted by: JackMDS
If you are you using your Wireless at very close range and need additional Local bandwidth then Draft_N (there is NO 802.11n) Router and matching card would provide some help.

Otherwise you are just financially support Hardware manufacturers that do not care about their clients and prefer to stay as long as possible in a draft stage to bilk more money from the ignorant market.

That is BS. A draft N router set to G only mode(or not) will help improve performance of a G network just with the ability to handle signal reflection and separating the coverage in spacial directions. This would reduce noise the g devices see and provide full bandwidth for multiple simultaneous clients. One with a good set of antennas will also improve coverage. I know you guys are against draft n, but don't deny what it does bring and call people would would like to use these features ignorant. Just call it G with MIMO if it makes you feel better.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Get a TrendNet 652 draft N 2.0 router.

 

[kevnich2]

Originally posted by: ccbadd

Originally posted by: JackMDS
If you are you using your Wireless at very close range and need additional Local bandwidth then Draft_N (there is NO 802.11n) Router and matching card would provide some help.

Otherwise you are just financially support Hardware manufacturers that do not care about their clients and prefer to stay as long as possible in a draft stage to bilk more money from the ignorant market.

That is BS. A draft N router set to G only mode(or not) will help improve performance of a G network just with the ability to handle signal reflection and separating the coverage in spacial directions. This would reduce noise the g devices see and provide full bandwidth for multiple simultaneous clients. One with a good set of antennas will also improve coverage. I know you guys are against draft n, but don't deny what it does bring and call people would would like to use these features ignorant. Just call it G with MIMO if it makes you feel better.

They call it DRAFT for a reason and yes, Jack is pretty much on the nose with it but hey, go ahead and believe what you want.

There is a difference between Draft N and 802.11G MIMO router.

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: tornadog
How good is a wireless N router if all my devices have built in wireless b/g adapers in them? Would I notice any benefit over a simple wireless g router like the linksys wrt54gl which I presently have.

Use e.g. inSSIDer to see how crowded your wireless neighborhood is, and which channels are best to use.

Use e.g. iperf version 1.7 to see how fast your wireless is going.

server: iperf -s
client: iperf -c server -l 64k -t 15 -i 3 -r

The max throughput for standard-g under ideal conditions is around 23 Mb/s. Distance, obstructions, interference and wireless crowding all reduce the achievable performance. This will however give you an idea of how much room you have for theoretical improvement with standard g -- obviously if you're getting close to 20 Mb/s then there's no real room for improvement with standard-g.

It is certainly possible that you would see a performance improvement, but the likelihood is not great, and the degree of improvement is not likely to be great either. A better bet might be to reduce the number of wireless devices you're using.

 

[JackMDS]

Originally posted by: ccbadd

That is BS.

I usually do not read post beyond scientific statement like this.

However since I read what Kevin posts I got back to this one.

In a certain theoretical way you are right since the MIMO aspect of a Router can improve somewhat the signal propagation.

However the Draft_Ns are usually bad products with bad firmware, bad drivers, and bad attitude whatever comes out stays as is because of the Nature of being Draft the so called manufacturers do not really try to make a model much better since sooner or later they would have to come out with real standard products.

So MIMO or Not they simply do not deliver.

I do understand the Cognitive Dissonance* that urges many End Users the Glorify the products, they have to justify to themselves the extra useless cost.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

P.S, That said, if you notice I did not post categorically not to look at the Draft. I do think that some time there is a limited use to it as posted in my first post above.

 

[ccbadd]

kevnich2

There is a difference between Draft N and 802.11G MIMO router.

What is the difference between Draft N in G mode and G with MIMO? NONE There are different implementation of MIMO that exist for both, the two I mentioned be the most important to me.

JackMDS

I do understand the Cognitive Dissonance* that urges many End Users the Glorify the products, they have to justify to themselves the extra useless cost.

Again, put someone down who does not agree with your fact less opinion. By the way, I paid $20.00 for each of my WNR834b's and $22.00 for my Airlink AR670W's. My old wrt-54g's cost more than that.

Sorry if the "BS" was offensive though, I didn't think it would be taken as such. I just don't think you guys are seeing past your opinions and being objective on the topology and I think the standards system is broke permanently due to patent abuse and no more standards will ever be finalized in the WIFI area.

 

[Chrono]

My AR670W died on me. !!!!!!!

 

[Eug]

? IIRC there is no official MIMO support in 802.11g. All the implementations with 802.11g are proprietary. ie. If you're talking MIMO then it isn't really 802.11g.

Correct me if I'm mistaken.

Also, I've read articles that stated 802.11g MIMO implementations can actually slow down 802.11g networks when some non-MIMO hardware is used.

 

[ccbadd]

Eug, You are correct that there is no official MIMO spec for 802.11g. There are several techniques used in a MIMO config that can help a g client and some that don't. Typically, the only benefits a non MIMO g client could get is greater coverage and the ability for multiple clients to not have to share the same 54mb of bandwidth (depends on the number of spacial zones the router can create and the line of site each client is to the router). In a big house this could be a major benefit. As to your last statement, I believe there were some 802.11g MIMO routers with "sudo" MIMO that were horrible, but I think we need to focus on Draft N 2.0's MIMO implementation.

Chrono, How long did it last?

 

[tornadog]

got the dlink 655 yesterday and noticed straight out the connection stayed pretty consistent throughout a download. I downloaded 75 files of 50 mb each from usenet and previously i could see the speeds fluctuating between 6 and 15 MBps. Ths time it stayed pretty consistent at 13-15 and needless to say it finished much earlier than the previous. Also there seems to some headroom when doing simultaneous upload and download. Previously if my upload was close to my max of 2 MBps my downloads would fall below 5 MBps, now they stay close to the 10MBps mark

I need some help positioning the router though. THe last one was in the attic because my modem was sitting there. But now people are telling me attic is the worst place to put a router/modem because of the weather in Louisiana. The heat and moisture can take a tool on the product's life. If thats the case, should I bring both to the ground level?

 

[kevnich2]

Yes, put both router and cable modem in a low humidity environment <110F or so

 

[tornadog]

ok update on my end. I tested the router and compared speeds and connection strength over the weekend. I have finally come to the conclusion theres zero advantage for me with the new dlink. The results I reported earlier were probably perceptions after seeing a shiny new toy. But after talking over with my wifey, I have decided to return the dlink and keep the wrt54gl back.

 

[ajaidevsingh]

Dont get it... The reason why i bought a super G router is that the N standard is a not final and its a DRAFT. The horror is that if i buy a expensive Draft N router it may not even talk to a N Final card/ router!!!

 

[Eug]

Yeah, I'm not jumping in until n goes final. By that time, the pricing will be a lot lower anyway.

 

[kevnich2]

Sadly by the time N goes final, I may be retired. cannot believe how long it's taking them.