Wireless Networking Thread (DEAD)

[RandyH]

It's unlikely I'll get broadband in the near future. I live in the boonies and there is no cable or dsl service here. I may get satellite internet when the prices drop. Why is an access point better than a router?

Randy

 

[shadowfaX]

excellent thread, albrandwood! much thanks.

 

[Stoerm]

I have some network questions that I believe many network noobs reading this thread might appreciate being answered.

Most of understand what routers are now.

Is there a type of router that uses both wireless and wired connections? So we have the option for superfast connections or wireless at any point?

What is an access point, exactly? Is this what is used to combine a wired router's speed with wireless practicality?

What is the difference between an access point and a wireless bridge? Is it true that bridges just port one signal from one place to another?

In short, what is the relationship between routers, access points, and bridges? How would your average professional's family go about setting up (with one cable or DSL connection):
~2 desktops (on a wired router connection for sheer speed),
~2 laptops (which included wireless PCCards and would work throughout the house) and an
~xbox (in a different room)

?

Thanks!

PS - If this is too OT, I apologize and will move it to another forum when I get home. LMK!

 

[memo]

$29.99 - Netgear MA311 - Outpost SKU:3840367

under 802.11b pci, link doesnt work anymore

 

[Deleted member 4644]

awesome thanks

 

[albrandwood]

Originally posted by: Stoerm
I have some network questions that I believe many network noobs reading this thread might appreciate being answered.

Most of understand what routers are now.

Is there a type of router that uses both wireless and wired connections? So we have the option for superfast connections or wireless at any point?

What is an access point, exactly? Is this what is used to combine a wired router's speed with wireless practicality?

What is the difference between an access point and a wireless bridge? Is it true that bridges just port one signal from one place to another?

In short, what is the relationship between routers, access points, and bridges? How would your average professional's family go about setting up (with one cable or DSL connection):
~2 desktops (on a wired router connection for sheer speed),
~2 laptops (which included wireless PCCards and would work throughout the house) and an
~xbox (in a different room)

?

Thanks!

PS - If this is too OT, I apologize and will move it to another forum when I get home. LMK!

OK ...

some definitions first. (without pictures it gets difficult to explain)

An AccessPoint is where wireless meets wired networking ... it can be considered the equivalent of a wireless hub attached to a wired network. All wireless devices need an AP to connect to a network.
Think of an accesspoint like the star on top of the christmas tree ... the tree is the wired network, then the wireless clients (PC's etc) connect to the points on the star.

A router is a unit that seperates local traffic from global traffic, and will "route" the traffic to where it needs to be.
A Home Office Wireless Router, is (usually) made up of: AccessPoint, 4 port wired Hub (or switch) and software (such as DHCP & DNS servers, and gateway/firewall/filtering software.

A bridge is literally that, a bridge between to networks. (with a bridge, the two networks are peers, with no control on what is local to each physical network) ... A wireless bridge is where wireless is used to join two wired networks together with wireless equipment.

A sidenote on Accesspoints ... A lot can be used in 3 different combinations...
a) Accesspoint
b) Bridge (technically 1/2 a bridge, since you need two to make a bridge)
c) client (this is where the AP is used to join wired equipment (such as TiVo or Xbox) to a wireless network.)

Hopefully the above is descriptive enough on the relationships.

The average broadband would use a wireless router (If you go for 108Mbps "802.11g" then it doesn't matter if you are running wired or wireless, since the maximum wired speed is 100Mbps ...)

And use either a Game Adapter (although how well these work with WEP I don't know) or an AP configured as a client with a crossover cable to the ethernet adapter for the xbox.

If you want cheap, buy 802.11b ... its faster enough for 90+% of home users.

@shley

 

[albrandwood]

Originally posted by: RandyH
It's unlikely I'll get broadband in the near future. I live in the boonies and there is no cable or dsl service here. I may get satellite internet when the prices drop. Why is an access point better than a router?

Randy

ok ... it is a question of software and configuration ... routers contain a lot of extra software, such as DHCP, DNS and Firewall/Filtering software ... and this can give you a problem.

for simplicity, most people prefer to use DHCP, that way, there is no thought given to setup the network. Unfortunately, you can only have one dhcp server per (logical) network (wired and/or wireless) ... The DHCP server will hand out IP addresses, including the IP address of the gateway. Unfortunately, a wireless router will always assume that it is the default gateway ... so you have to turn off the DHCP server on the wireless router ... however, that leaves another problem... the filtering software on a lot of routers will not forward the DHCP requests from the wireless network to the wired network...

An accesspoint removes all these problems. its nothing more than a wireless hub ...

@shley

 

[RandyH]

Thanks for the info. So, I need an access point to connect to built in nic on desktop and a pc card for the lappy, and I should be good to go. Any specific setup that someone could recommend?

Randy

 

[albrandwood]

As for manufacturer/model, I buy the cheapest available ... Though I don't like the CompUSA / FMI accesspoint ... get one with a web interface ... I haven't seen any significant incompatibility issues.

The gigafast FAR from PCClub seems to work reliably for me ... and the rebate took 68 days from the time I sent the forms till the checks were cached ...

As for the AP, I've got a D-Link ... works fine after a flash upgrade (inoperability with Centrino before) ... I've also used the CompUSA/FMI one, but I don't like the interface on that one (un-intuitive SNMP interface). I've used 3com equipment, and I like their wireless router, but I haven't tried their AP.

@shley

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

How can I go about using a printer wirelessly?

Like I have 3 computers (2 notebooks, 1 desktop) that I want to be able to share an HP OfficeJet.

What would I need to do? Printer is USB

 

[Stoerm]

Thanks allbrandwood!

Looks like all I really need is an 802g wireless router then. I was under the impression that the wired routers were markedly faster than the wireless ones. This works out just fine because my wired router is actually one that was borrowed from a friend.

Does anyone have any opinions on any of these above-mentioned wireless routers? I would like one that isn't too security oriented. My current Netgear model will not allow me to do any p2p traffic or MSN msgr file transfer without using the DMZ setting. It also interfere's with many of the online games I like to play.

Is this why you go with the El Cheapo models (to avoid the fancy firewalling)?

 

[RandyH]

Is there a wireless access point that has a jack to accept a serial modem? Would this work as my dialup connection?

This has been a most informative discussion!

Randy

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: Stoerm


I was under the impression that the wired routers were markedly faster than the wireless ones. This works out just fine because my wired router is actually one that was borrowed from a friend.

Wired routers ARE markedly faster, but the question is how much speed do you need? Dialup or private broadband throughput is less than even 802.11b provides, and 802.11g is enough for watching compressed video over the LAN, but for maximum performance with filesharing, file transfers or remote control apps (like PCANywhere) a wired 1Gb or even 100Mb is still better.

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: RandyH
Is there a wireless access point that has a jack to accept a serial modem? Would this work as my dialup connection?

This has been a most informative discussion!

Randy

You'd want a router for that. I don't recall any wireless routers (at affordable prices) that have a serial port, but it's certainly possible, the few I've opened up even had pinout spots on the PCB for a serial-port module, but it's not something you can *easily* hack together yourself. It seems serial ports were more common on wired routers, I have a D-Link 704(?) that has one. You could instead dedicate a system to being the gateway with Window's ICS enabled, the modem and a wireless card in it.

 

[albrandwood]

Originally posted by: mindless1

Originally posted by: RandyH
Is there a wireless access point that has a jack to accept a serial modem? Would this work as my dialup connection?

This has been a most informative discussion!

Randy

You'd want a router for that. I don't recall any wireless routers (at affordable prices) that have a serial port, but it's certainly possible, the few I've opened up even had pinout spots on the PCB for a serial-port module, but it's not something you can *easily* hack together yourself. It seems serial ports were more common on wired routers, I have a D-Link 704(?) that has one. You could instead dedicate a system to being the gateway with Window's ICS enabled, the modem and a wireless card in it.

I've not seen a wireless router supporting dialup ... although I have used the USRobtics wired router (Bought one for a friend on ebay, added a cendyne modem (the $14 one), and the CrapUSA/FMI AccessPoint, and he now has wireless in his country shack)

@shley

 

[albrandwood]

Originally posted by: mindless1

Originally posted by: Stoerm


I was under the impression that the wired routers were markedly faster than the wireless ones. This works out just fine because my wired router is actually one that was borrowed from a friend.

Wired routers ARE markedly faster, but the question is how much speed do you need? Dialup or private broadband throughput is less than even 802.11b provides, and 802.11g is enough for watching compressed video over the LAN, but for maximum performance with filesharing, file transfers or remote control apps (like PCANywhere) a wired 1Gb or even 100Mb is still better.

Most wireless routers have wired capability anyway. 108Mbps g (like the DLink Extreme) is going to be on par with a 100Mb network ... and for 99% of the time, that will be fine ... just remember most g routers drop to b speeds when _any_ b device is added.

And 99% of people dont run 1gb at home (and most machines, can't support that bandwidth to the disk etc ...

as for PCNoWhere, use Remote Desktop ... its much faster :-D (although it does require XP Pro or win2k server)

@shley

 

[albrandwood]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
How can I go about using a printer wirelessly?

Like I have 3 computers (2 notebooks, 1 desktop) that I want to be able to share an HP OfficeJet.

What would I need to do? Printer is USB

I just share the printer from which ever desktop is on continuously ... since it's probably at a desk, and set up all the time ...

Try:
$89.99 - Trendware TEWP1U - NewEgg SKU:33-156-019 PRINT SERVER (802.11b)
I know linksys has one as well.... I think Netgear and D-Link both do as well.

@shley

 

[ChaplainDave]

I'm really new to wireless. I have a pretty good computer (Abit NF7-S, 2500+ Barton, 2 x 256MB Corsair PC3200LLPT, WD 120GB SE drive, Pioneer DVR-A06, TDK 4800B CD-RW, Pioneer 16x slot load DVD player, PNY Verto GeForce4 Ti4200, Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound, etc). I also have Comcast high speed cable...so I am looking at networking my wife's computer to mine...and later this summer my daughter will be adding her computer.

So here is my question...what is the best way to go with wireless...and what is the bare minimum (not cost wise...just equipment wise) equipment to network my two computers? I am assuming I will need a router and PCI cards for both computers...correct?

Thanks ahead of time for all of you great Anandtech forum partners out there.

 

[RandyH]

A wireless access point still connects to a computer with a cat 5 cable right? Can I use a Netgear MR814 as an access point with dialup internet?

Randy

 

[albrandwood]

Originally posted by: ChaplainDave
I'm really new to wireless. I have a pretty good computer (Abit NF7-S, 2500+ Barton, 2 x 256MB Corsair PC3200LLPT, WD 120GB SE drive, Pioneer DVR-A06, TDK 4800B CD-RW, Pioneer 16x slot load DVD player, PNY Verto GeForce4 Ti4200, Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound, etc). I also have Comcast high speed cable...so I am looking at networking my wife's computer to mine...and later this summer my daughter will be adding her computer.

So here is my question...what is the best way to go with wireless...and what is the bare minimum (not cost wise...just equipment wise) equipment to network my two computers? I am assuming I will need a router and PCI cards for both computers...correct?

Thanks ahead of time for all of you great Anandtech forum partners out there.

OK ... you haven't specified where your PC's are located ... if your PC and your wife's PC are in the same room as the cable modem etc, I'd advise that you connect those machines together with the router using cat5 cable, rather than wireless... Your daughters computer (presumably) is in her bedroom, so for her, I'd advise a USB wireless. Eitherway, unless you _really_ want 802.11g, I'd advise 802.11b with USB wireless ... more than adequate for most home users ... capable of sharing photos and music, just not video.

@shley

 

[albrandwood]

Originally posted by: RandyH
A wireless access point still connects to a computer with a cat 5 cable right? Can I use a Netgear MR814 as an access point with dialup internet?

If you wish to use dialup you must use either
a) a wireless router that supports a modem or
b) a wired router that supports a modem
b) a PC with connection sharing.

If b) or c) , you would be advised to use an AccessPoint. You may be able to get a router to work, but as discussed above, its not guaranteed ... most routers want to be the default gateway, which if the PC is providing the modem, it can't. Also, there is a good chance that a router will block DHCP traffic (this is required to get an IP address) ... you _could_ use a router, if a) you turn off the DHCP server, and b) set static IP addresses...

For a friend I used the USRobotics wired router, and a seperate wireless accesspoint ... took about 10 minutes to set up and configure ... but it did require an external modem.

@shley

@shley

 

[mindless1]

D-Link 614+ is an 802.11b router that will work as an access point. Newegg currently has them for $38 AR. They've been cheaper in some past deals though, might be cheap again soon at some local office superstores or ???

 

[ChaplainDave]

Originally posted by: albrandwood

Originally posted by: ChaplainDave
I'm really new to wireless. I have a pretty good computer (Abit NF7-S, 2500+ Barton, 2 x 256MB Corsair PC3200LLPT, WD 120GB SE drive, Pioneer DVR-A06, TDK 4800B CD-RW, Pioneer 16x slot load DVD player, PNY Verto GeForce4 Ti4200, Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound, etc). I also have Comcast high speed cable...so I am looking at networking my wife's computer to mine...and later this summer my daughter will be adding her computer.

So here is my question...what is the best way to go with wireless...and what is the bare minimum (not cost wise...just equipment wise) equipment to network my two computers? I am assuming I will need a router and PCI cards for both computers...correct?

Thanks ahead of time for all of you great Anandtech forum partners out there.

OK ... you haven't specified where your PC's are located ... if your PC and your wife's PC are in the same room as the cable modem etc, I'd advise that you connect those machines together with the router using cat5 cable, rather than wireless... Your daughters computer (presumably) is in her bedroom, so for her, I'd advise a USB wireless. Eitherway, unless you _really_ want 802.11g, I'd advise 802.11b with USB wireless ... more than adequate for most home users ... capable of sharing photos and music, just not video.

@shley

Thanks for the quick reply. My computer will be in the family room...my wife's will be upstairs in her craft room or in an open landing at the top of the stairs (where her sewing machine is). My daughter's...after she graduates from college in May...will be in her bedroom...just down the hall from where my wife's will be.

Is there really a lot of advantage over 802.11g from the 802.11b??? My only concern is interference from things like the microwave...or cordless phones. 802.11b I think is slightly older technology, correct? Isn't the 802.11g newer? My guess is that they have perfected the 802.11b a bit more than the "g" model, correct? Again...does this mean I would need a router between my cable modem and my computer with PCI cards in my wife's machine and daughter's machine???

Thanks again for the help... I figured I would see what kind of deals were out there for BF. By the way, someone posted a deal they found for routers on Amazon.com. They are both 802.11b routers (Netgear WGR 614 and MR 814 for $79.99 with $20 rebate and $49.94 with $20 rebate respectively...good deal???)

 

[RandyH]

Buy.com has DI614+ on sale for $19.99 after rebate here.

dlink

If I knew for sure this will work with a dialup connection, I would be all over this. Can anyone verify that this will work as an access point without requiring broadband?

Thanks,
Randy

 

[PDubs]

Can anyone recommend a good USB wireless NIC for Win98? I looked at some cheap ones on eBay, but would like to hear stories if anyone has experience using Win98...