Wisconsin Senate Passes Union Reform Legislation

[Engineer]

March counts as Winter 2011 in Wisconsin?

The First Day of Spring is Sunday, March 20, 2011, so yes, it's "STILL" Winter in Wisconsin, lol!

 

[sportage]

I would bet voters will recall or vote out the WI gov, and put democrats back in power, then reverse all this back to square one. Just will take a little while. The fat lady has not even began to sing. As they say... stay tuned. Its not over till its over and its not over by a long shot.
Fact is... they (they meaning republicans) say this type of anti union action will solve all fiscal problems that states suffer. And we all know that savings and state windfalls from this will never show up as real dollars and cents. Then voters will realize union busting has no effect on state financial issues. THE UNIONS ARE BUSTED... HERE COMES THE MONEY WAGON... Me Thinkest not...
Don't you just love politics.

 

[senseamp]

March counts as Winter 2011 in Wisconsin?

I support their actions, it was necessary to close the budget gap and fix problems with the state. The Dems had plenty of chances to debate and combat the bill in the spirit of democracy, and they chose to run. Spineless.

This will be extremely good for everyone but the Unions.

Actually, the only reason there was any debate on this is because the Dems ran.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

March counts as Winter 2011 in Wisconsin?

It snowed two inches last night/this morning. Yes, March is definitely winter in Wisconsin.

Well, looks like the shit show down at the other end of State St. is finally coming to an end. I suspect Walker's approval rating will drop to around 33% in the coming days, but that doesn't matter. What matters is that 500,000+ signatures have to be gathered in the last two months of this year to hold a recall vote in early 2012. We'll see what happens. For now I'll just be glad to be able to find parking near Cap Square on the weekends so I can eat, drink, and be merry.

 

[Fear No Evil]

The 8 Republicans who are eligible for recall are in pretty solid Republican districts. I doubt people are going to vote in a Democrat over 1 issue. However, at least 1 of the Democrats is in a pretty solid Republican district as well.. This could end up 20-13 in favor of the Republicans.

People also seem to forget that even though the public may not be happy with this particular vote, it doesn't mean they are going to elect a Democrat. There are many other issues Walker is wildly popular on.

 

[sportage]

I’m hearing and reading a national school student walk out this Friday 2pm in protest, is in the making.
Interesting....
Reminds me of the Vietnam war student protests, if it materializes.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

I’m hearing and reading a national school student walk out this Friday 2pm in protest, is in the making.
Interesting....
Reminds me of the Vietnam war student protests, if it materializes.

Students? oh please... kiddies who don't know any better and are trying to suck up to teachers? big deal.

 

[Craig234]

Doing what is right is not always popular. :thumbsup: for republics.

Neither is doing what's wrong.

The bottom line on this issue is that the Republicans DID NOT RUN on the issue of removing union rights. They were dishonest by ommission with the public, and ran with a stealth agenda.

The Wisconsin public DOES NOT AGREE to their stripping of rights, as shown in polls and in disapproval of the Republicans.

Even those who agree with their position on unions should, if they had any integrity, which I haven't seen one right-winger in this thread have, oppose the abuse of democracy by running dishonestly with a stealth agenda the public disagrees with.

They passed this clearly illegally in violation of the open meetings law - but that appears to be a speed bump they can fix (too bad the violation can't put them in jail).

If you haven't seen the video of the vote, it's one of the most disturbing cases of legislating against the rule of law I've seen.

The word fascism isn't too strong to describe the scene as the Democratic leader object waving the law against what they're doing, and instead of responding, they ignore him, and say they're voting in a few seconds to the shouts of 'shame, shame!'.

Fascism because this is so clearly an abuse of power strong-arming a corporatist agenda for power at the expense of the people trampling on the law to seize the power and money of the people they want.

Wisconsin is the birthplace of many if not most of the union rights we all - ok, most of us - support, and this is a historic move in the wrong direction for the country, this movement of the national Republican party to try to cripple labor rights for their own power.

This is the fruit the Supreme Court has watered by giving the country the 'nuclear option' for corporations to be out of any control by the people as to their buying elections - as seven of the top 10 spenders on national elections last election were right-wing and the others three were all unions which are a tiny fraction of what they were - something like 7% of private workers and 36% of public workers - and are under more attack so that 10 of 10 top givers will be for Republican whores for the corporations and democracy can't do a thing about it and we return to the robber-baron days, the example for the world of a strong middle class in the US from Roosevelt on over.

 

[Fear No Evil]

I’m hearing and reading a national school student walk out this Friday 2pm in protest, is in the making.
Interesting....
Reminds me of the Vietnam war student protests, if it materializes.

NATIONAL protest? LOL. Yeah right. A protest that hasn't materialized reminds you of the Vietnam War protests? /Facepalm.

 

[nyker96]

I think the Republicans got too anxious on this one, some of the Dem already willing to come back even negotiate, although Rep. gets the bill passed, this will seem quite heavy handed and even dishonest in labeling a labor busting bill in guise of financial reform. I don't think it's a smart move in the long run. They make themselves seem very authoritarian, too heavy handed, too one-sided making Dem look very much like the victims.

 

[Lemon law]

Wisconsin has been mostly a democratic state, with occasional flirtations with the GOP. and also Gov. Wallace long ago. The election of 11/2010 was a GOP year in Wisconsin as even a long standing democratic Senator went.

But I very much wonder if Gov Walker and the GOP, who have become very much like Pete Wilson in California in the early 1990's. Because as they alienate the working class families in Wisconsin, Wisconsin like California, may not go GOP again for many many decades. Long after the temporary joy of pandering to your base dissolves in no significant improvements, the risk of totally offending large minorities results in long term memories that last for life. And for many, the label GOP may result in a knee jerk reaction of will not ever vote for.

When Pete Wilson played his shenanigans in California, he was being touted as having GOP presidential timber, by the time ole Pete left office, he could not even run for dog catcher in a 100% GOP county.

 

[Craig234]

These Republicans are the greatest enemy America faces in the world.

They're ideologues who are misguided and have an agenda that can hurt the American people from positions of power like no one else in the world can threaten the people.

Look at the grandiose notions of this radical Walker, who thinks he's spearheading some 'great change' to the 'history' of his state as he fights against the people's rights.

From the phony call:

This is an exciting time. This is — you know, I told my cabinet, I had a dinner the Sunday, or excuse me, the Monday right after the 6th. Came home from the Super Bowl where the Packers won, and that Monday night I had all of my cabinet over to the residence for dinner. Talked about what we were gonna do, how we were gonna do it. We’d already kinda built plans up, but it was kind of the last hurrah before we dropped the bomb. And I stood up and I pulled out a picture of Ronald Reagan, and I said, you know, this may seem a little melodramatic, but 30 years ago, Ronald Reagan, whose 100th birthday we just celebrated the day before, had one of the most defining moments of his political career, not just his presidency, when he fired the air-traffic controllers. And, uh, I said, to me that moment was more important than just for labor relations or even the federal budget, that was the first crack in the Berlin Wall and the fall of Communism... And, uh, I said this may not have as broad of world implications, but in Wisconsin’s history — little did I know how big it would be nationally — in Wisconsin’s history, I said this is our moment, this is our time to change the course of history. And this is why it’s so important that they were all there. I had a cabinet meeting this morning and I reminded them of that and I said for those of you who thought I was being melodramatic you now know it was purely putting it in the right context.

So here he is blathering about a great moment of Reagan was his firing a union that *was the first act that brought down communism in the world*.

Note how he cites this with a picture of Reagan for setting his own agenda - and refers to his union busting agenda that was hidden in the campaign as "dropping the bomb".

He clearly is a radical as he says he wants to "change the course of history" having just cited union busting as purportedly his inspiration that 'started the fall of communism'.

Walker: All right, that would be outstanding. Thanks, thanks for all the support and helping us move the cause forward, and we appreciate it...

Murphy: Absolutely. And, you know, we have a little bit of a vested interest as well. [Laughs]

Walker: Well, that’s just it. The bottom line is we’re gonna get the world moving here...

Here he is thanking the radical billionare Koch who heavily donated to Walker's campaign and his union busting movement for the money, and when he thinks Koch just admitted his motive is a 'vested interest' - the profit of the Koch companies, some of the great polluters in the country, fighting the EPA and any attempts by the people to reign them in, fighting the rights of unions for their own profits, Walker says 'That's exactly it'.

I did not quote his standard flowery language about 'doing the right thing' which is what he sees this crusade against unions and for the corporatist Republicans as, because I'm highlighting the relevant point of what he's doing. He's a radical ideologue out to attack all the middle class progress of the country since FDR, funded by his fellow radical Koch and similar.

If this goes through, and the unions are crippled, and the Republicans get almost all the political funding, our democracy is no longer a real democracy much more than Mubarak.

It becomes one in which the only real party - even if we have the lie of two, both with the same donors and agenda - is the corporate interest, and the people lose their power.

 

[comptr6]

CA pays its teachers the most and it has one of the worst public school systems in the country.

Based on how bad the situation is in WI I bet they pay their teachers the 2nd most and have the 2nd worst school system!

 

[First]

Meh. They'll be ousted in 2 years when the unemployment rate is ~7%.

 

[JSt0rm]

Students? oh please... kiddies who don't know any better and are trying to suck up to teachers? big deal.

We know how the neocons take care of students like this eh? :sneaky:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-XYPJ3_YAY

 

[Craig234]

I think the Republicans got too anxious on this one, some of the Dem already willing to come back even negotiate, although Rep. gets the bill passed, this will seem quite heavy handed and even dishonest in labeling a labor busting bill in guise of financial reform. I don't think it's a smart move in the long run. They make themselves seem very authoritarian, too heavy handed, too one-sided making Dem look very much like the victims.

To be clear, the union busting has ECONOMIC impacts, in terms of slashing the union's power and therefore lowering their compensation; but it does not have FISCAL impact, in the sense of the government spending or taxing a certain amount of money, such that it seems it doesn't fit the definition needed for the larger quorum.

It will have fiscal impact down the road, but indirectly, by slashing unions' rights.

If the Democrat can argue in court otherwise, great, but it seems unlikey they can.

As to why Republicans didn't do it sooner, I don't know, but it might have been to keep up the pretense of their lie that this was all about their manufactured 'fiscal crisis'.

So, they didn't want to say their real top priority 'wasn't a fiscal issue'.

 

[nonlnear]

If this goes through, and the unions are crippled, and the Republicans get almost all the political funding, our democracy is no longer a real democracy much more than Mubarak.

So you're saying that government unions with mandatory dues are a way for Democrats to subsidize their own lobbyists with public dollars? I'm shocked! Shocked! - to hear such candor, that is.

 

[JSt0rm]

funny how the supreme court ruled that unions and corporations can have money as speech and a year later they try to destroy the union part of that equation.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Since nearly every federal worker doesn't have the rights that WI state workers (used to) have, I don't understand how the left can possibly call this an attack on the middle class. If Walker is attacking the middle class then Obama and the Democrats have declared jihad on the middle class.

 

[Craig234]

So you're saying that government unions with mandatory dues are a way for Democrats to subsidize their own lobbyists with public dollars? I'm shocked! Shocked! - to hear such candor, that is.

First, I'm referring to the larger Republican initiative to cripple unions nationally, and to turn this into effectively a one-party nation, the party of the rich and corporations.

Second, attack the means all you like, the fact is that the unions are the by far dominant source for the Democratic party as they represent their members' interests.

And they're already far, far small in their money than the corporations.

 

[Craig234]

funny how the supreme court ruled that unions and corporations can have money as speech and a year later they try to destroy the union part of that equation.

Of course, this current union busting isn't a Supreme Court issue.

But that Corporaitons and Unions thing was just to try to make it appear balanced, as they gave the right to:

C O R P O R A T I O N S, CORPORATIONS CCOORRPPOORRAATTIIOONNSS, CORPORATIONSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!! (and unions).

This takes that 'nuclear option' given to corporations to take over American democracy, and as you say, further destroys the weaker side for the people.

And idiots cheer the power in this country being taken from the people which will hurt them, because they're already such kool aid drinkers for the corporatist propaganda.

 

[Fear No Evil]

First, I'm referring to the larger Republican initiative to cripple unions nationally, and to turn this into effectively a one-party nation, the party of the rich and corporations.

Second, attack the means all you like, the fact is that the unions are the by far dominant source for the Democratic party as they represent their members' interests.

And they're already far, far small in their money than the corporations.

Fact is people like you are racists and bigots. Not only do you do everything in your power to keep minorities in what you consider "their place", but you hate women as well.

Fortunately the American people see through your bigotry and are beginning to reject it.

 

[matt0611]

First, I'm referring to the larger Republican initiative to cripple unions nationally, and to turn this into effectively a one-party nation, the party of the rich and corporations.

Second, attack the means all you like, the fact is that the unions are the by far dominant source for the Democratic party as they represent their members' interests.

And they're already far, far small in their money than the corporations.

And you don't see any conflict of interest of a group collectively bargaining with government to get more taxpayer money which some of it is used as mandatory dues to the union and then that money going to fund campaigns and organize for the re-election of those very same government officials?

 

[nonlnear]

First, I'm referring to the larger Republican initiative to cripple unions nationally, and to turn this into effectively a one-party nation, the party of the rich and corporations.

You do know that the DNC is in bed with them on that one, right? (The rich and corporations bit, not so much the unions bit.) The only worthwhile Democrats are as marginalized in their party (federal, that is) as Ron Paul is in the federal GOP.

Second, attack the means all you like, the fact is that the unions are the by far dominant source for the Democratic party as they represent their members' interests.

Small local unions with voluntary dues represent their membership. Large government unions with mandatory dues do not. They lobby for causes that have virtually nothing to do with the interests of their membership, and do so unapologetically.

And they're already far, far small in their money than the corporations.

Given the fact that Democrats apparently have no trouble getting in the pants of the same corporate fatcats the GOP do, losing union dues won't really affect much then, will it?

As for big corporate money harming politics I'm mostly on your side, believe it or not. I'm quite ecstatic that the Kochs' power plant fiasco got left behind in this little stunt.

 

[MovingTarget]

Fact is people like you are racists and bigots. Not only do you do everything in your power to keep minorities in what you consider "their place", but you hate women as well.

Fortunately the American people see through your bigotry and are beginning to reject it.

A fact, huh? How do liberals "do everything in their power to keep minorities in their place" and "hate women"? This oughta be good...

/lawnchair