Wisconsin Senate Passes Union Reform Legislation

[dmcowen674]

Excellent!

Now, how soon can we go back to hiring children and making them work for 14 hours a day, 6 days a week; all for $1 a day?

They are calling for $2 an hour. Get your facts straight.

 

[wirednuts]

How do you figure that? A lot of people make a good living and do without being in a union.

but most people dont. a great majority dont. and a great majority of union members live a good life. not a rich life, but a good one so lets not skew the truth here.

 

[PokerGuy]

it absolutely shocks me how people who work for a living dont want an 8 hour day with honest pay. well, they do, but they are told they dont and they believe it. the blind faith is just horrific.

What the heck are you talking about? The vast majority of people in this country are not part of a union and don't need to be. Since when is a union a necessity for getting honest pay?? WTF are you smoking?

 

[Naeeldar]

Originally Posted by wirednuts
it absolutely shocks me how people who work for a living dont want an 8 hour day with honest pay. well, they do, but they are told they dont and they believe it. the blind faith is just horrific.




Where? CEO's and other exec positions don't count.

Lol so because there are people out there who make $200,000+ a year suddenly all the jobs where people make 60-150k suck?

Fine I work for a tech firm managing/selling to current clients. I cleared about 6 figures last year. Jobs exist. It's just not the same types of jobs that 30-40 years ago paid high wages. The world changes with times and there is less value in those jobs these days. Why should they pay the same money?

 

[fskimospy]

Prove to me, then, oh proveyer of things mathematically proven, that these polls are correct 100% of the time. Until then, I'm done wasting my time with you.

The best part about this post is that I asked you if you knew what a 95% confidence interval was, and your retort was for me to prove that polls are right 100% of the time.

The stupidity here boggles the mind sometimes.

 

[Genx87]

the republicans didnt even discuss the issues with the democrats, forcing the dems to walk out. they are simply doing what they needed to do in order to protect their people from unjust governing.

Huh? Nobody forced the dems to flee from their duty.

 

[Naeeldar]

but most people dont. a great majority dont. and a great majority of union members live a good life. not a rich life, but a good one so lets not skew the truth here.

Because they are guaranteed income levels regardless of the quality of the employee. Hell often times they are guaranteed income levels regardless of the value of the job. If your valuable to your company you’ll be paid. It’s simple.

Manufacturing isn’t valuable anymore in a world of electronics and manufacturing lines.

 

[wirednuts]

What the heck are you talking about? The vast majority of people in this country are not part of a union and don't need to be. Since when is a union a necessity for getting honest pay?? WTF are you smoking?

the vast majority of people in this country live below a middle class status.

 

[fskimospy]

Huh? Nobody forced the dems to flee from their duty.

Nobody forced them to go anywhere, correct. Strange that you are saying their move out of the state 'allowed' this to happen however, because that action was the only thing standing in the way of it passing. Had they 'fought the good fight', they would have lost 3 weeks ago, and public opinion wouldn't have turned as decisively against the Republicans as it has.

If anything, all this raises the probability that successful recall campaigns will be run against Republican senators, and perhaps even Walker himself next year. That would be a far more successful fight of the good fight than toothlessly pushing a 'no' button.

 

[Genx87]

the vast majority of people in this country live below a middle class status.

Define "middle class status".

 

[fskimospy]

the vast majority of people in this country live below a middle class status.

The median household income in the US is about $45k a year. In most of the country, that's definitely a middle class status.

 

[dmcowen674]

Fine I work for a tech firm managing/selling to current clients.

I cleared about 6 figures last year.

Thank you for coming clean that you are rich.

That should disqualify you for speaking about any of peons.

 

[Genx87]

Nobody forced them to go anywhere, correct. Strange that you are saying their move out of the state 'allowed' this to happen however, because that action was the only thing standing in the way of it passing. Had they 'fought the good fight', they would have lost 3 weeks ago, and public opinion wouldn't have turned as decisively against the Republicans as it has.

If anything, all this raises the probability that successful recall campaigns will be run against Republican senators, and perhaps even Walker himself next year. That would be a far more successful fight of the good fight than toothlessly pushing a 'no' button.

If I had a house rep flee his\her duty. Regardless of party they wouldnt get my vote. They ran from their jobs because they didnt like the expected outcome. Why are they immune from losing their jobs?

 

[wirednuts]

Because they are guaranteed income levels regardless of the quality of the employee.

this used to be true of a lot of unions. its really not that way anymore with most. the money just isnt there to have incompetent workers on the job. i know you can argue that the teachers unions are ones that still employ underachieving people, but im not sure there is that many qualified people who would actually want those jobs. and now they are going to get paid a lot less, so i dont see how that is going to improve the quality of their work.

 

[dmcowen674]

The median household income in the US is about $45k a year.

In most of the country, that's definitely a middle class status.

Yeah maybe like 30 years ago.

 

[tk149]

I would bet voters will recall or vote out the WI gov, and put democrats back in power, then reverse all this back to square one. Just will take a little while. The fat lady has not even began to sing. As they say... stay tuned. Its not over till its over and its not over by a long shot.
Fact is... they (they meaning republicans) say this type of anti union action will solve all fiscal problems that states suffer. And we all know that savings and state windfalls from this will never show up as real dollars and cents. Then voters will realize union busting has no effect on state financial issues. THE UNIONS ARE BUSTED... HERE COMES THE MONEY WAGON... Me Thinkest not...
Don't you just love politics.

You've unwittingly pointed out exactly why the Senate Democrats are despicable.

The old bill, if passed, would not have affected current contracts.

The old bill, if passed, would only have affected new contracts.

If the Democrats are so sure that the clear majority of Wisconsinites support public union unrestricted collective bargaining, then all they have to do is wait for the next election in 2012. Then they could be sure of getting enough Senate/Assembly seats to pass a new law repealing this one.

Therefore, public employees would probably only be affected by the bill for less than two years since the unions would not sign a contract for beyond 2012.

The fact that the Senate Democrats chose to run away rather than show some fortitude and wait a lousy two years to get back in power, shows that they:

1. Don't really believe that they have a substantial majority backing them, or

2. Just wanted to grandstand at the expense of a functioning government and taxpayer expense (last night's news said that Racine police billed Madison $100,000 because they sent officers to help out during the protests - Racine is only one of several cities to send cops to Madison).

Both Democrats and Republicans have garnered a LOT of money in donations since this debacle began.

In related news, before the Dems fled, the Senate Minority Leader Mark Miller (D) ("my" fvcking representative) had attempted to convince the Secretary of State to delay publication of the new law. The new law does not actually take effect until publication. This delay would give unions more time to lock in new contracts under the old rules. Not illegal, but not especially ethical either.

 

[fskimospy]

If I had a house rep flee his\her duty. Regardless of party they wouldnt get my vote. They ran from their jobs because they didnt like the expected outcome. Why are they immune from losing their jobs?

Do you consider the job of a legislator to push voting buttons, or to represent the interests of their constituents?

 

[PokerGuy]

the vast majority of people in this country live below a middle class status.

Oh, and you think using a union to push someone doing something that isn't valuable into the middle earning class is a viable solution? Since only a relatively small percentage of people are in unions (mostly government employees of course), it means the rest of the folks (the ones you say are below middle class) are paying tax dollars to overpay those people. Wonderful.

 

[wirednuts]

If I had a house rep flee his\her duty. Regardless of party they wouldnt get my vote. They ran from their jobs because they didnt like the expected outcome. Why are they immune from losing their jobs?

incorrect. they ran from the job because the job wasnt moving along properly. if a coworker just puts on headphones and watches his ipod while driving a forklift around, you get the fuck out of the way.

 

[Jaskalas]

It takes THIS battle to shave pennies off the debt. Now imagine trying to resolve the whole thing.

 

[dmcowen674]

Nobody forced them to go anywhere, correct. Strange that you are saying their move out of the state 'allowed' this to happen however, because that action was the only thing standing in the way of it passing. Had they 'fought the good fight', they would have lost 3 weeks ago, and public opinion wouldn't have turned as decisively against the Republicans as it has.

If anything, all this raises the probability that successful recall campaigns will be run against Republican senators, and perhaps even Walker himself next year. That would be a far more successful fight of the good fight than toothlessly pushing a 'no' button.

Looking forward to seeing if the Wisconsin people are Americans or America hating pussies.

They already fucked up by voting for and allowing an all Republican Government to begin with.

They will either redeem themselves or die as a traitorous state to the country.

 

[fskimospy]

Yeah maybe like 30 years ago.

Well you're in luck! The median income in the US 30 years ago (adjusted for inflation) was right about $45k too. (a bit lower, actually)

 

[Naeeldar]

Thank you for coming clean that you are rich.

That should disqualify you for speaking about any of peons.

I'm far from rich. I have no college degree and I don't work in a union. But I'm not qualified to speak upon how somebody can make it without unions? your nuts.

 

[wirednuts]

Oh, and you think using a union to push someone doing something that isn't valuable into the middle earning class is a viable solution? Since only a relatively small percentage of people are in unions (mostly government employees of course), it means the rest of the folks (the ones you say are below middle class) are paying tax dollars to overpay those people. Wonderful.

what kind of argument is that? you do realize everyone could get union wages and the corporations and wallstreet (that your so worried about) would still be the some of the richest in the world?

 

[Genx87]

incorrect. they ran from the job because the job wasnt moving along properly. if a coworker just puts on headphones and watches his ipod while driving a forklift around, you get the fuck out of the way.

So your solution to govt is when one side doesnt like what is happening they flee? What a wonderful idea actually. I think the Republicans should do this more often to gridlock govt.