Wisconsin Senate Passes Union Reform Legislation

[werepossum]

well, this I have to disagree on. I think some union compensation pensions do need to be slashed to balance budget. But let's also be clear that for this to be a democratic process, they at least have to negotiate with the other side and come up with a compromise at the end. To pass something that satisfies only Republican side w/o chance for debate/amendments is bypassing the democratic process entirely. That is plain wrong no matter which party you are from.
SNIP

The democratic process does not guarantee compromise, merely a seat at the table. If one side has a majority, be it Wisconsin Republicans or federal Democrats circa 2009, that side is going to get its way unless the other side can propose arguments attractive enough to the majority to gain support. Republicans did not remove Democrats' democratic rights, rather the Democrats forfeited them when they refused to participate if they could not have their way.

That is one of the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Let's see students in New Mexico walk out of the classrooms because Wisconsin public unions have to contribute more to pensions and lost some collective bargaining rights.

Actually, this is one point where PUBLIC sector unions are a drag on the nation - they should NOT have the power to strike. None of them. Ever. No union which controls a monopoly over an industry should be allowed to strike.

The public sector is not supposed to work for the benefit of the public sector. They work for the benefit of the private sector.

Very well said. The problem with public sector unions is that one side is bargaining for its own wages and benefits whilst the other side is bargaining with others' money. This is made even worse when the unions can take some of those wages and benefits to buy the politicians who are the taxpayers' only representatives at the table.

Maybe not small businesses. But Intel and Boeing can build plants wherever they want, as long as that state gives them the sweetest property and income tax exemptions.

Pretty sure the average Joe can move his household more easily than Intel or Boeing can move a plant, but you have a point. However that point plays more to the Pubbies than to the Dems, as the large employers are the ones with the resources to move large numbers of jobs out of Wisconsin should the Dems be successful in once again raising taxes on businesses. With large employers moving to more business-friendly states, Wisconsin would take even more of a tax hit than keeping them with low taxes as workers must either follow them or else switch from net contributors to net consumers of state resources.

 

[senseamp]

Democrats played this as well as it could have played, and Republicans botched it by waiting to short circuit this.
Also, Dems did shine enough light on the GOP roach nest to prevent them from selling off state assets that the state would then have to pay rent for to a private company. That would have been harder to undo than reinstating collective bargaining once the Democrats get back in power.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Don't worry senseamp, the national right to work act will be next.

 

[davmat787]

Democrats played this as well as it could have played, and Republicans botched it by waiting to short circuit this.
Also, Dems did shine enough light on the GOP roach nest to prevent them from selling off state assets that the state would then have to pay rent for to a private company. That would have been harder to undo than reinstating collective bargaining once the Democrats get back in power.

If you spin any harder you are going to have your own moon pretty soon.

 

[werepossum]

if you spin any harder you are going to have your own moon pretty soon.

lol!

 

[boomerang]

Don't worry senseamp, the national right to work act will be next.

Oh man, I've been gunning for that one for about 40 years. I always said that if I won the lotto I'd hire a cadre of lawyers and take it all the way to the Supreme Court.

Oh and davmat787, a big thumbs up on the moon comment. Funniest thing I've read here this week I believe. :awe:

Edit: Speaking of gunning, I just ran across this.

http://thepeoplescube.com/peoples-blog/new-handgun-in-honor-of-obama-t6906.html

I heard Glock has plans on making a new gun in honor of Obama.

It's called the Union Worker. Problem is it doesn't work, and you can't fire it.

I find it quite humorous. ()
​

 

[Schadenfroh]

Don't worry senseamp, the national right to work act will be next.

Hmm, using the interstate commerce clause to limit the power of labor unions...

 

[Nebor]

It's called the Union Worker. Problem is it doesn't work, and you can't fire it.

I find it quite humorous. ()
[/INDENT]

 

[werepossum]

Oh man, I've been gunning for that one for about 40 years. I always said that if I won the lotto I'd hire a cadre of lawyers and take it all the way to the Supreme Court.

Oh and davmat787, a big thumbs up on the moon comment. Funniest thing I've read here this week I believe. :awe:

Edit: Speaking of gunning, I just ran across this.

http://thepeoplescube.com/peoples-blog/new-handgun-in-honor-of-obama-t6906.html

I heard Glock has plans on making a new gun in honor of Obama.

It's called the Union Worker. Problem is it doesn't work, and you can't fire it.

I find it quite humorous. ()
​

LMAO!

Even though I'm most familiar with trade unions, whose members (usually) work as hard as non-union workers and generally with better results, that's funny.

 

[boomerang]

LMAO!

Even though I'm most familiar with trade unions, whose members (usually) work as hard as non-union workers and generally with better results, that's funny.

It was intended to be humorous and I'm glad that it has been taken that way so far. Just to be clear for anyone that doesn't know, I was a tradesman and a UAW member for the last thirty years of my working life. The overwhelming majority of my co-workers put in an honest days work everyday. A small minority were slackers. They exist throughout society and are not exclusive to unions.

My issue has never been with union workers my issue is with the unions themselves. They feel compelled to provide more and more to justify their existence. From time to time they must be reminded that they're killing the golden goose. After reading what those in Wisconsin government have been gleaning, I now realize that the UAW is probably one of the least militant unions around. When on the inside, I would never have been convinced of that.

I've touched on all this and more in various posts so no sense rehashing it any more.

 

[werepossum]

It was intended to be humorous and I'm glad that it has been taken that way so far. Just to be clear for anyone that doesn't know, I was a tradesman and a UAW member for the last thirty years of my working life. The overwhelming majority of my co-workers put in an honest days work everyday. A small minority were slackers. They exist throughout society and are not exclusive to unions.

My issue has never been with union workers my issue is with the unions themselves. They feel compelled to provide more and more to justify their existence. From time to time they must be reminded that they're killing the golden goose. After reading what those in Wisconsin government have been gleaning, I now realize that the UAW is probably one of the least militant unions around. When on the inside, I would never have been convinced of that.

I've touched on all this and more in various posts so no sense rehashing it any more.

Very good points.

 

[davmat787]

You meanies are forgetting it is all about the children. Remember Chanin's comments? Just saw them on TV in an ad. Also, wouldn't "required" be more apt than "willing" in the second bold?

"Despite what some among us would like to believe it is not because of our creative ideas; it is not because of the merit of our positions; it is not because we care about children; and it is not because we have a vision of a great public school for every child.

The NEA and its affiliates are effective advocates because we have power. And we have power because there are more than 3.2 million people who are willing to pay us hundreds of million of dollars in dues each year because they believe that we are the unions that can most effectively represent them; the union that can protect their rights and advance their interests as education employees.

This is not to say that the concern of NEA and its affiliates with closing achievement gaps, reducing drop rate rates, improving teacher quality, and the like are unimportant or inappropriate. To the contrary these are the goals that guide the work we do. But they need not and must not be achieved at the expense of due process, employee rights, or collective bargaining.

That is simply too high a price to pay."

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/07/09...nion-dues-not-education-are-our-top-priority/

FYI: yes it is a blog link, to heritage no less, but it was one of the first links returned. Just using it to reference the quote itself, not the opinion piece.

 

[OCGuy]

Poor libs...HAHA.

 

[fskimospy]

Don't worry senseamp, the national right to work act will be next.

Be sure to let us know how far that goes, hahaha.

 

[Craig234]

Its a little ridiculous to claim that businesses are more mobile than average workers. That fails the sniff test.

First, it's just one part of the issue, the race to the bottom over new development.

But yes, companies planning that new development ARE usually quite mobile, and as a regular practice play states against each other bidding down revenue for the state, to the point that states screw their own citizens and take big LOSSES with no taxes and subsidies, so that they can have a sound bite next campaign they 'brough the jobs'.

Go look at the numbers sometimes, spending outrageous sums to do just that.

Of course, it's not just for a campaign claim - it's to be 'business-friendly' (citizen unfriendly) and attract the business donations, too.

Politicians selling out the people they represent to special interests who sometimes 'make it worth their while' is one of the oldest political thefts in the book.

It's not always 'corrupt', just having the system messed up can cause harm.

Even good politicians are faced with the problem that other states will give ridiculous benefits to these expansions, and they can match it or not get the business.

That's not 'normal competition', it's a broken system when you check the numbers that show the subsidies are not at all in the state's interest, but are politically compelling.

 

[pcgeek11]

First, it's just one part of the issue, the race to the bottom over new development.

But yes, companies planning that new development ARE usually quite mobile, and as a regular practice play states against each other bidding down revenue for the state, to the point that states screw their own citizens and take big LOSSES with no taxes and subsidies, so that they can have a sound bite next campaign they 'brough the jobs'.

Go look at the numbers sometimes, spending outrageous sums to do just that.

Of course, it's not just for a campaign claim - it's to be 'business-friendly' (citizen unfriendly) and attract the business donations, too.

Politicians selling out the people they represent to special interests who sometimes 'make it worth their while' is one of the oldest political thefts in the book.

It's not always 'corrupt', just having the system messed up can cause harm.

Even good politicians are faced with the problem that other states will give ridiculous benefits to these expansions, and they can match it or not get the business.

That's not 'normal competition', it's a broken system when you check the numbers that show the subsidies are not at all in the state's interest, but are politically compelling.

Next you will be telling us how Towns with no business' are better off.

Cities want business because it is better to have people with jobs rather than people on welfare. That is why they trade off taxes etc to get business in the city / county ...

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Be sure to let us know how far that goes, hahaha.

Just a few more senators in 2012 and it's a done deal.

 

[Craig234]

Next you will be telling us how Towns with no business' are better off.

Cities want business because it is better to have people with jobs rather than people on welfare. That is why they trade off taxes etc to get business in the city / county ...

You completely miss the point. Do a little research on the phrase "race to the bottom", and then come back.

 

[SandEagle]

starting to look like Egypt.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x629773
http://www.salon.com/news/wisconsin...1/03/13/wiscons_labor_protests_100_000_people

 

[Phokus]

Some more pictures, the farmers bringing their tractors to the huge protest is pretty damn :awe:

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...15364076359_1604040001_31371689_6370025_n.jpg

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...15364516370_1604040001_31371692_6175814_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...15362596322_1604040001_31371680_4864597_n.jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...15358396217_1604040001_31371657_1028478_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/196685_1615358196212_1604040001_31371656_689292_n.jpg


http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...15357516195_1604040001_31371652_7156642_n.jpg

 

[her209]

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...15358396217_1604040001_31371657_1028478_n.jpg

TEA does not grow in Wisconsin.

:awe:

 

[Londo_Jowo]

TEA does not grow in Wisconsin.

:awe:

This is true, at this time you can't get iced tea at restaurants in Wisconsin because it's out of season.

 

[werepossum]

starting to look like Egypt.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x629773
http://www.salon.com/news/wisconsin...1/03/13/wiscons_labor_protests_100_000_people

If public sector unions win this fight, then Wisconsin and probably the country are going to look even more like Egypt in the future.

 

[matt0611]

Civility LOL

http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-20110313-greendale-graffiti,0,4403628.story

 

[tk149]

Civility LOL

http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-20110313-greendale-graffiti,0,4403628.story

Disgusting.