Wisconsin's NO CALL list goes Live!! - and links to other states

[cappsa]

The Indiana list is wonderful. I've been on it since April and the annoying calls have completely stopped.

 

[spwango]

As far as the hypocracy comment, quite simply: bite me. The issue here is not the benefit of the law that I may personally get--I would have (or did--can't remember if it was a ballot issue or not) voted against it had I been given the oportunity, but it was passed, so sure, I'm going to use it. The damage of the law is done, so its stupid not to take personal benefit from it, even if I disagree with it.

In my state, there are no fees for the list.

As far as harassement, again, the same one calling you daily or weekly is harassment, but in all the years I"ve owned a phone, I've never been in that situation. We allready have law enforcement for that situation anyway. It's just not a valid argument. By law, if you ask them to take your name off their list, and they don't, you can sue them. Why do we need an additional law at additional expense for that?

Past that, disgree with me, that's fine...I know not many will agree with my stance on this issue because there is so much hate for these folks (and yes, I hate them too)--but that's not the point...my point is that law is not the answer.

 

[cappsa]

I'm no fan of these guys, but this law is wrong.

Fine. Give me your phone number and I'll start calling you at 8:01 am every day, including Saturday, and try to sell you stuff.

 

[BJS]

Everyone knows that Wisconsin is the land of Cheese, Beer, and the Green Bay Packers, but did you also know (this is AT, afterall) that all Cray Research (now Cray Inc) hardware is designed from scratch in Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin?

So, next time you're sippin' on a MGD and running your code on a Cray X1, think of this midwestern state.

 

[Nolan75]

Sweet.

 

[Snyder81]

Originally posted by: spwango
As far as the hypocracy comment, quite simply: bite me. The issue here is not the benefit of the law that I may personally get--I would have (or did--can't remember if it was a ballot issue or not) voted against it had I been given the oportunity, but it was passed, so sure, I'm going to use it. The damage of the law is done, so its stupid not to take personal benefit from it, even if I disagree with it.

You reek of hypocrisy on this particular issue. Using your logic, let's say that murder is legalized. Does that mean you should do it anyway even though you disagree with it? There's a lot of laws that I disagree with, and I try to fight them whenever I get the chance, usually by educating others or occasionally my political representative.

Why exactly do you disagree with this particular law? Is it because it takes away an avenue of potential revenue for businesses(And in turn our economy)? If that is the case, you shouldn't be on the list at all if you are worried about someone not being able to call you and try to sell you stuff.

These cold-call scumbags always call a relative of mine that is mentally incapacitated and sell him stuff that he can't use . Just because he doesn't understand, these people use it to their advantage to get money from him. SCUM!

 

[res1bhmg]

Sorry to some of you out there, but I hope the eventual outcome of lists like these is the abolishment of cold-call telemarketing.

Some of you bash the lists because it harms your livlihoods, but cold-call telemarketing is a shady institution in the first place. People don't open telephone lines into their residence so strangers can call them to sell them products they did not request. Even if you politely say no, it still interrupts your routine and wastes at least 30 seconds to a minute of your life. Now multiply that time by the number of calls you get per day, then by the days in the year, and some of you will realize that 12 hours or more of your life was spent answering phone calls for services or products you never wanted. Unless they start paying me for answering their calls, I'm going to be a little ticked off.

 

[Devistater]

Telephone marketeers are going to get far far worse in the next year or two. Reason? The FCC on July 16th (I can provide links to everything if anybody asks) passed a ruling saying that Telephone companies can now sell lists of numbers that you call, including when you called to other companies. WITHOUT ASKING YOUR PERMISSION FIRST! Previously this was opt-in (i.e. they had to ask your permission) now its opt-OUT (YOU have to call THEM and beg for your name NOT to be sold). Personally I view this as one of the worse invasions of privacy in the last couple years, including all the crap that MS does. The scary thing to me? Almost NO one has reported on this.

Some people will argue that this is not a big deal, because the ruling says telco's have to sell lists to someone (and yes they can sell to 3rd party) "communications related." Not so, the term "communications related" is NOT further qualified. So a ISP is communications related, radio shack is communications related (they sell phones) etc. And it doesn't limit who the person they sold the list to can resell too.

Some other people might argue, the court made them do it. Not true, the court mearly said that the FCC needed to further justify thier opt-in policy about this. FCC took the lazy way out and said fine, we'll go opt-out since we don't want to spend out time doing a study.

If you go to http://www.fcc.gov and click on the link for past headlines you can find the info on July 16th (7-16-02) and the dissenting opinion by 1 of the 4 commisioners, Michael Copps, is a fascinating read. Has a lot of the dangers of this ruling.

Think about it, what if someone calls a rape crises center, do they want people getting ahold of the list of numbers they called and calling them about abortion (if you are pro life), or adoption or Christian organizations calling (if you are pro choice).
Or how about if someone calls an AIDS/HIV center for some information even if he doesn't have it. What if his insurance suddenly drops him?
How about if you call compusa, do you want all the local computer stores calling you?

I mean this is stuff you previously needed a warrant for, now it can just be sold to almost anyone at will.

If you don't want information sold on who/when/where you call I suggest calling up your local telephone company and telling them you do NOT want your CPNI (Customer Proprietary Network Information) sold or given to anyone else. CPNI is just a fancy term for all your personally identifiable information like what services you subscribe to on the phone, who/when/where you call. They might try to tell you they want to be able to send that information only in the company so you can get calls selling a particular phone service, don't fall for it. If they haven't already started selling the information to 3rd parties, I doubt its that far away.

Anyway, just wanted to let people know about this. I have a number of links about all this stuff if anyone cares for more info. Does anyone have any thoughts about this?

 

[MaroonGuru]

While it is ok to have such lists, we shouldn't need them.

Since you can put up a sign on the outside of your house that says "no solictors" and stop door-to-door marketers, why can you not do the same with your phone line? Why? Because the Incumbent Local Exchange Carriers make lots of money on call completions. They want you to have to pick up the phone as many times a day as possible.

Verizon, the ILEC here offered us a line package that included "Anonymous Call Rejection." I had AT&T local service before, and "Anonymous Call Rejection" stopped all calls that were not identifiable.

The Verizon reps tell me that since telemarketers don't send their ID, instead of sending it as private, that they are not anonymous. They even sound like they are able to say that with a straight face. Oh, but the good news is I can "divert" those calls for an extra $5.00 a month. The diversion will tell the callers they must identify themselves. And, if they. or the computerized voice, says anything, then it will ring through to my line.

So, the ILEC gets $5.00 to make up for possible lost call completions, and then the wireline equivalent of spammer can still get through.

Even funnier is that a computer calling at eight minute intervals and then hanging up isn't considered harrassing.

FYI, no callback available, nor call trace on those jerks.

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

Originally posted by: darth maul
My wife works for an insurance agent, and they are not looking forward to this list, cause it afects them too. No more cold calling for them if your on the list, which means lost income. Maybe I am biased a little but this list isn't all good.

It's good for people who don't have to take cold calls from your wife. Sorry, dude, but if your family income is deirved from bothering people in their homes, maybe your wife needs to consider more considerate marketing techniques.

 

[worms]

Even funnier is that a computer calling at eight minute intervals and then hanging up isn't considered harrassing.

8 Minute intervals? How about 80,000 calls per second or so?
8 minute intervals would be mere harassment. The fact that machines capable of extreme levels of mass destruction on the order of tens of thousands of calls per second are legal in this country is an absolute outrage.

Thanks for siding with me Scrut. I feel bad that it's his wife and all, but man - what a fukin despicable job.

 

[microAmp]

THANK YOU!

 

[jjmIII]

Come on Ohio.........lets get this going in our fine state!

 

[hunt3r]

Devistater :: Thanks I will be looking into that. What a bunch of horse pucky. I would love to here some big wig TRY to explain to me how he has the right to sell my personal data when I am PAYING him for a service.

darth maul :: Frankly I think most of the guys in here are being a bit abusive in handling of such a delicate subject. They are intitled to their opinions, but it is mine that they should be more considerate. Yes this is the internet boys and girls but there is no need to be rude. As to your wifes company.... I use to be in sales and understand the companies loss of a lead generation through cold call with this list, however in as a former sales person I would echo the point that has been made a couple times. I would want to talk to PROSPECTS, not SUSPECTS. Big dif. This list just elminates a lot of suspects so your wifes company will have a better closing ratio. I did not do cold calling for that very reason. Many companies take the if we throw a bunch of $hit on the wall some has to stick approach. Here.... talk to 10 prospects sell 5. Closed 50% OR talk to 50 suspects sell 5 Closed 10%. There are soooo many better ways to get clients.

spwango :: I somewhat understand what your saying and that scares the hell out of me. NOW I don't agree with you in this instance for the many many many reasons that have been put out, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think this is an example of what your trying to say.... Our former Mayor in Ft. Wayne, IN wanted to ban guns on City property, including parks. I argued that laws already exsisted to cover this and we didnt need his feel good law. Specifically, if you do not have a personal carry permit then to carry a weapon ANYWHERE in the state was against the law. Permit holders were not the problem, so what are you trying to accomplish.... bla bla bla. If the afore mentioned example is correct... then I would state that all of the current laws to prohibit me from being solicited, harassed, bothered, etc, were not working. I too would repeatedly ask to be removed from lists, and yet would be called. Now I have to spend my money and time to sue. Bog down the courts for crap like this. BS. I work at home... I have no time for crap like that. There was little teeth in the previous laws and were difficult for the public to act on. Now there is a easy way. This is not a law for the sake of making a law. Its a feel good law that feels soooooo good!

I have been on the Indiana list since it came out, and BOOM, all is silent. I have even had the pleasure of turning a couple of companies in. O and I use pop up stopper to.

Trouble ahead? I have heard of a challenge to the Indiana list, because it makes exeptions, what seems unfairly, to some business. IE: Newspapers, charities, etc etc. I agree, NONE of them should call.

Sorry I came in late.....I am done now.

 

[SpideyCU]

The whole spiel about this impeding our "freedom" is a load of bull. It's amazing how people will use that term for anything. Get this into your heads - in this country, the basic premise of FREEDOM is that you have the FREEDOM to do what you want AS LONG AS you are not adversely affecting someone else. Now, there are tons of variants and conditions for specific situations, but this is just the basic idea. The argument that our freedoms are being limited by this law is analogous to me saying my freedom to smack people randomly upside the head is being taken away by these horrible, terribly unfair laws. Boo hoo. Freedom isn't "do whatever the hell you damn well please". The argument that we don't HAVE to buy what they're selling is also missing the point - it's the constant hassle of the CALL itself that we're trying to eliminate, not the product/service being sold. In all my years of getting these calls, not ONCE have I ever ended up buying or agreeing to anything - I'm sure it's the same for many, MANY other people. Anything else I wanted to say on this topic has already been said quite well by others.

P.S. I've never heard a more rational, compelling argument than "Bite me". It's so eloquent.

 

[darth maul]

I can't believe the insults that are flying at me and my wifes profession. Hay lets take down all the billboards too, cause thats obstructing my view of the country side and hay I didn't ask them to be there nor did they ask me. Oh and if you are really worried they make about 5% of thier business from cold calls. Now if the mods would lock worms account, life around here can get back to normal. Get a life peeps, people can make money anyway they need to, as long as it doesn't break any laws.

 

[SpideyCU]

Darth, the unnecessary outlashes at your wife's profession are certainly uncalled for, you might as well just ignore them because if a person does that in the first place, there's not much chance of talking sense to them anyway. But, as for "people can make money anyway they need to, as long as it doesn't break any laws"...well, it's a law - can't solicit from the numbers on that list. Isn't much room for argument there.

 

[hunt3r]

darth maul That is exactly what I was saying.... ie we do not need to stoop to insults and in no way was that my intention. I said > "They are intitled to their opinions, but it is mine that they should be more considerate."

I am not "worried" that this company earns 5% from cold calls and I might add I am impressed that you would know that figure. I was mearly pointing out that they will most likely earn the same percentage from that method due to the cold call "buyers" still being reachable. In fact thier closing ratio would theoretically go up. My interjection about there being better ways to find clients is one from experience which I felt justified in mentioning. It was not a slam.

 

[Devistater]

Originally posted by: hunt3r
Devistater :: Thanks I will be looking into that. What a bunch of horse pucky. I would love to here some big wig TRY to explain to me how he has the right to sell my personal data when I am PAYING him for a service.

Watch out, because when I called they said stuff about how they would never sell that information. I have an idea that they just haven't found out about the FCC ruling though, or it hasn't percolated through the company. They did admit they might pass some info on to other departments in order to sell you "services" i.e. call waiting etc. Anyway, I imagine it will take a few months to a year or so for phone companies to start doing that kinda thing. That's why its important to take care of it now

Couple links with more info about the FCC ruling if anyone wants it.

Link to the previous headlines, check July 16th (7-16-02) "FCC Adopts Rules Resolving How Phone Companies Share and Market Customer Information."
http://www.fcc.gov/headlines.html
Direct link to the FCC news release about the FCC ruling:
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-224366A1.pdf
Michael Copps the dissenting opinion out of the 4 commisioners, a MUST read if you want info on it lots of good info in here about why it was not a good ruling.
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-224366A5.pdf

Anyway, just a few links if you are interested in reading up on it.

 

[Nyconx]

Originally posted by: darth maul
I can't believe the insults that are flying at me and my wifes profession. Hay lets take down all the billboards too, cause thats obstructing my view of the country side and hay I didn't ask them to be there nor did they ask me. Oh and if you are really worried they make about 5% of thier business from cold calls. Now if the mods would lock worms account, life around here can get back to normal. Get a life peeps, people can make money anyway they need to, as long as it doesn't break any laws.

I thought you said your wife was a secretary? Then why is she a telemarketer? Anyway I agree with hunt3r and I am sure you do too. If thought of wisely this can be a good thing for telemarketing. Only calling people that want your calls! How great is that for these companies! Its kinda like hollywood against the vcr because of lost revenue then realizing they make more money selling tapes then would have ever been lost. Same thing applies here, more sales to people who will talk to you. I dont disagree about having telemarketers and dont think its a bad profession cause hey everyone needs cash but for companies there is so many more ways to let people know about what your selling. Not to mention 5% of her bussiness is not that much at all for being cold calls. So this wouldnt affect her much at all (other than buying the list) which is a big bonus for your wife and her company!

 

[darth maul]

Gosh people are stupid men's idiots on here. I didn't say it was all bad, said it wasn't all good. WOW the level of stupidity has reached an all time low, really I didn't think it could get this low, but yet it has. People don't bother reading what was said, yet, they believe what they want to about what they know nothing about. Yawn, I get sick and tired and its such a bore to even talk to people that live in their own worlds not even reaching out to those things they know nothing about or haven't experienced yet.

 

[worms]

If your wife does not do any cold calling then I sincerely apologize for misunderstanding your statement. I do wish however, that she would tell her cold calling co-workers how unforgivably rude and inconsiderate they are. And then give them a couple of good slaps.

 

[progex]

Pennsylvania

This link to NoCallsPlease.com is a scam. Most of you missed out on what happened in the last thread. So read this.

 

[Devistater]

Originally posted by: progex

Pennsylvania

This link to NoCallsPlease.com is a scam. Most of you missed out on what happened in the last thread. So read this.

I don't live in PA, but I don't know why you say that site is a scam. The link you post to the FTC refers to a crook calling YOU and asking for personal info like social security number, etc. Nothing to do with that site.

That no call web site seems to be a PA no call registry. If you look at the form they dont ask for any private info like credit card or social security #, just your name, address, and telephone #. The godaddy whois seems to be pretty legit for that site. If it is a scam, please provide links to previous threads, or more concrete info. Thanks.

 

[Salvador]

Hopefully we can get rid of all the monkey's running Illinois during the next election. I'd love to see them get rid of the freaking tollway system and put some sort of law into place to help get rid of the telemarketers.

Sal