Witness 40: Exposing A Fraud In Ferguson

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,277
28,135
136
Watched interview with TSG reporter. He said it took 2 days to unravel the store of witness 40 where the prosecutor had access to her for weeks. This could blow up a lot of narratives.

In interviews with police, FBI agents, and federal and state prosecutors--as well as during two separate appearances before the grand jury that ultimately declined to indict Officer Darren Wilson--the purported eyewitness delivered a preposterous and perjurious account of the fatal encounter in Ferguson.

Referred to only as “Witness 40” in grand jury material, the woman concocted a story that is now baked into the narrative of the Ferguson grand jury, a panel before which she had no business appearing.

While the “hands-up” account of Dorian Johnson is often cited by those who demanded Wilson’s indictment, “Witness 40”’s testimony about seeing Brown batter Wilson and then rush the cop like a defensive end has repeatedly been pointed to by Wilson supporters as directly corroborative of the officer’s version of the August 9 confrontation. The “Witness 40” testimony, as Fox News sees it, is proof that the 18-year-old Brown’s killing was justified, and that the Ferguson grand jury got it right.

However, unlike Johnson, “Witness 40”--a 45-year-old St. Louis resident named Sandra McElroy--was nowhere near Canfield Drive on the Saturday afternoon Brown was shot to death.



http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/unmasking-Ferguson-witness-40-496236
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
Even worse than witness 10 who changed his story, at least he was actually there or was he? Makes you wonder how many of these "witnesses" there were "testifying".
 
Last edited:

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,320
15,117
136
What's wrong? The original ferguson thread not enough for you guys?

I covered this story several days ago


It's all good, justice was served! /s


Except that it wasn't...
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,320
15,117
136
Lulz. Let the butthurt flow.

If facts that are contrary to your beliefs then I'm guessing you are the one that's butthurt. Anytime someone points out an inconsistency in what happened, you tools never address the issue but rather you just yell, "butthurt". I'm guessing that's how people on the internet convey they are sticking their fingers on their ears and yelling, " lalalala"!.
 
Dec 11, 2014
135
0
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If facts that are contrary to your beliefs then I'm guessing you are the one that's butthurt. Anytime someone points out an inconsistency in what happened, you tools never address the issue but rather you just yell, "butthurt". I'm guessing that's how people on the internet convey they are sticking their fingers on their ears and yelling, " lalalala"!.

You misspelled "Hahahaha". As in they are just laughing their asses of at the liberal fraud and race baiting factory in Ferguson.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,617
5,311
136
If facts that are contrary to your beliefs then I'm guessing you are the one that's butthurt. Anytime someone points out an inconsistency in what happened, you tools never address the issue but rather you just yell, "butthurt". I'm guessing that's how people on the internet convey they are sticking their fingers on their ears and yelling, " lalalala"!.

Or we could be we are assuming that the grand jury heard the evidence, and decided not to indite. If witness forty lied, I hope they prosecute her for it, but I have to believe the entire case didn't pivot on her testimony.
That's really the end of the story, it's time to move on.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
126
Fraud? You mean "the gentle giant" and "he was about to start college" were ALL LIES?

<shocking>
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
Dramatic Thread Title: This title is so dramatic that strangers on the internet will have to take me seriously
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,320
15,117
136
Or we could be we are assuming that the grand jury heard the evidence, and decided not to indite. If witness forty lied, I hope they prosecute her for it, but I have to believe the entire case didn't pivot on her testimony.
That's really the end of the story, it's time to move on.

Lol! One witnesses lied, no biggie! Nothing to see here, move along.

As if that was the only issue with this idictment.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
81
Was the kid a criminal? Yes.

Honestly, I find it hard to be upset about there being one less criminal on the streets.

While I do believe that in some cases the police are overstepping their jurisdiction (mostly in the "war on drugs") and while I don't condone vigilantism, I simply can't be upset about taking a gangbanger lowlife being off the streets.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,320
15,117
136
Was the kid a criminal? Yes.

Honestly, I find it hard to be upset about there being one less criminal on the streets.

While I do believe that in some cases the police are overstepping their jurisdiction (mostly in the "war on drugs") and while I don't condone vigilantism, I simply can't be upset about taking a gangbanger lowlife being off the streets.

If you are focused only on browns character then you are missing the big picture. The system is rigged, this particular case offers insight into how the rigging occurs. Whether you or others care about brown doesn't matter, what you should be concerned with is a justice system that's hardly fair and not even close to being blind.

Love or hate brown or wilson, guilty or innocent doesn't matter if the process is unfair.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
81
If you are focused only on browns character then you are missing the big picture. The system is rigged, this particular case offers insight into how the rigging occurs. Whether you or others care about brown doesn't matter, what you should be concerned with is a justice system that's hardly fair and not even close to being blind.

Love or hate brown or wilson, guilty or innocent doesn't matter if the process is unfair.

So you're butthurt because you think a cop used excessive force and a jury of his peers found that he didn't.

Of course the system is rigged. When there are terms like "affluenza" thrown around, it's confirmed beyond a shadow of anyone's doubt. The assertion that the system is rigged against any particular group of people, though, is just plain silly. I'm sure a dozen and a half people didn't get together and say "kid was black, so cop gets a pass." And I'm sure that the cop didn't say "he's black, so I'm gonna shoot him."

The bottom line is that he was a criminal, engaged in criminal activity. If you can show me some vast conspiracy of a particular group of people being targetted by cops WITHOUT prior involvement in criminal activity, then be my guest. I'm fairly certain, however, that such data does not exist.

Fact: being a criminal means you live under greater scrutiny. White, black, brown, green, yellow, purple, man, woman, tranny...doesn't matter, that fact is true.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
81
Also, to say that Brown's character doesn't matter is a fucking joke and a cop-out. Of course his character matters. It plays DIRECTLY into why he was shot in the first place.

If he were carrying a napsack, wearing slacks and a belt and glasses that all fit properly, and walking home from school on the sidewalk, I guarantee you the cop wouldn't have looked twice at him.

Saying that character doesn't matter is like saying that the lack of a foundation couldn't possibly be why a house fell over. Everything builds on it and it's the most important thing of all.

I mean, it's obvious why you don't want people to look at his character...he was a criminal and a gangbanger, afterall...but seriously, it doesn't help your cause one bit. In fact, it kind of undermines your credibility and, indeed, your sincerity.
 

HTFOff

Golden Member
Oct 3, 2013
1,292
56
91
Lol

It's as if these charlatans are unaware that the grand jury testimony is open to the public. A simple google search tells the story. READ THE GJ DOCUMENTS PEOPLE. Witness 40 was heavily questioned, soup to nuts, by the prosecution and her testimony was found to be unreliable. More (and most) credible (consistent) witnesses' testimony corroborated the cops story. Witness testimony is only part of the process - it's not like they really needed much anyway, as the physical evidence was overwhelmingly in the cops favor.

You could literally make dozens of these same vain articles with witnesses who tried to go to bat for m. brown and were discredited or flat out admitted to lying.

The question is who cares? The rest of us who DO NOT suffer from neurosis have moved on.

I'm not even sure who the article is arguing against. Seems like it's fox news. Fox derangement syndrome strikes again.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,320
15,117
136
Lol! Your posts prove you guys have no idea how a grand jury works or the point of an indictment. Fucking priceless!

Anyone saying the grand jury proved wilson was innocent or brown got what he deserved are retarded. An idictment (whether a true bill or no true bill) says nothing about guilt. It's why you fucking morons continue to bring up irrelevant info when it's pointed out that the process of indictment is different for cops.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Or we could be we are assuming that the grand jury heard the evidence, and decided not to indite. If witness forty lied, I hope they prosecute her for it, but I have to believe the entire case didn't pivot on her testimony.
That's really the end of the story, it's time to move on.
Agreed, but it's pretty close to prosecutorial misconduct to even put her in the mix. The cops knew pretty quickly that she was a nut.

I too hope she is prosecuted - this ain't her first round of made up testimony - but her testifying at all is a legitimate issue. As HTFoff points out there were multiple pro-Brown witnesses just as bad who were heard, but this one might well be unique in having no known connection to the neighborhood AND having undeniably impeached herself in early testimony.
 

Riparian

Senior member
Jul 21, 2011
294
0
76
There were ridiculous witnesses on both sides of the aisle, so why focus only on witness 40?

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/078c82ad45ff4ec6aa1c7744dfa7df14/grand-jury-documents-rife-inconsistencies

On the pro-Brown side, we have at least 3 instances of witnesses flat out lying too. We have one witness who claims that she was certain there was another officer in the SUV, another witness who claims that Wilson shot Brown in the back and then finished off Brown while standing over him, and another witness who claims Wilson shot Brown in the head while Brown was on his knees with his hands in the air.

Where's everyone's outrage over these witnesses? It should be mentioned that the prosecutors discredited witness 40 in the GJ proceedings (along with the above witnesses).
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,320
15,117
136
There were ridiculous witnesses on both sides of the aisle, so why focus only on witness 40?

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/078c82ad45ff4ec6aa1c7744dfa7df14/grand-jury-documents-rife-inconsistencies

On the pro-Brown side, we have at least 3 instances of witnesses flat out lying too. We have one witness who claims that she was certain there was another officer in the SUV, another witness who claims that Wilson shot Brown in the back and then finished off Brown while standing over him, and another witness who claims Wilson shot Brown in the head while Brown was on his knees with his hands in the air.

Where's everyone's outrage over these witnesses? It should be mentioned that the prosecutors discredited witness 40 in the GJ proceedings (along with the above witnesses).

Uh, there is a difference between seeing an event differently than others and not seeing an event and claiming you did. One is illegal the other is not (unless you can prove the witness was lying). Not a single witness was both consistent and whose testimony matched exactly with another's eye witness account. Some witnesses were consistent but their testimony wasn't corroborated by another witness or physical evidence and some witnesses did have a matching story of another witness but their testimony wasn't consistent (ie they told the police something different than what they told the jury).
None of that matters as the job of the prosecutor in an indictment is to show there is evidence a crime was committed, not to prove his case before a grand jury, that's what a trial is for.

Had this been a normal indiectment, one the average citizen would face, the prosecutor would have presented evidence to make his case. So they wouldn't have had known false testimony, they wouldn't have had the accused testify, and they wouldn't have questioned witnesses that would have given testimony that would hurt their case.

It's why indictments return a true bill 99+% of the time and it's why there is a saying that a prosecutor could indict a ham sandwich, because the prosecutor controls the whole process. It's also why indictments don't carry any weight as to the guilt of the accused. Honestly it's a pretty pointless process that has been perverted.
 

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
world is upside down a flaming lib like homerjs is quoting fox news, without calling them 'fuaxnews'
 

Riparian

Senior member
Jul 21, 2011
294
0
76
Uh, there is a difference between seeing an event differently than others and not seeing an event and claiming you did. One is illegal the other is not (unless you can prove the witness was lying). Not a single witness was both consistent and whose testimony matched exactly with another's eye witness account. Some witnesses were consistent but their testimony wasn't corroborated by another witness or physical evidence and some witnesses did have a matching story of another witness but their testimony wasn't consistent (ie they told the police something different than what they told the jury).
None of that matters as the job of the prosecutor in an indictment is to show there is evidence a crime was committed, not to prove his case before a grand jury, that's what a trial is for.

Had this been a normal indiectment, one the average citizen would face, the prosecutor would have presented evidence to make his case. So they wouldn't have had known false testimony, they wouldn't have had the accused testify, and they wouldn't have questioned witnesses that would have given testimony that would hurt their case.

It's why indictments return a true bill 99+% of the time and it's why there is a saying that a prosecutor could indict a ham sandwich, because the prosecutor controls the whole process. It's also why indictments don't carry any weight as to the guilt of the accused. Honestly it's a pretty pointless process that has been perverted.

I guess you didn't bother to read the article, so I shall quote the relevant parts for you:

One woman, who said she was smoking a cigarette with a friend nearby, claimed she saw a second police officer in the passenger seat of Wilson's vehicle. When quizzed by a prosecutor, she elaborated: The officer was white, "middle age or young" and in uniform. She said she was positive there was a second officer — even though there was not.

Here's one witness that I referenced above, she claims to have seen another officer in the car, but there was not. Are you saying she's able to see people who aren't there or is the more likely answer that she was making it up? Next witness.

Another witness had told the FBI that Wilson shot Brown in the back and then "stood over him and finished him off." But in his grand jury testimony, this witness acknowledged that he had not seen that part of the shooting, and that what he told the FBI was "based on me being where I'm from, and that can be the only assumption that I have."

The witness, who lives in the predominantly black neighborhood where Brown was killed, also acknowledged that he changed his story to fit details of the autopsy that he had learned about on TV.

"So it was after you learned that the things you said you saw couldn't have happened that way, then you changed your story about what you seen?" a prosecutor asserted.

"Yeah, to coincide with what really happened," the witness replied.

Here we have a witness telling police a blatant lie as the witness did not see what transpired. Lying to the police during an active investigation is indeed a crime even when the truth of the testimony is revealed during a GJ hearing. Next witness.

Another man, describing himself as a friend of Brown's, told a federal investigator that he heard the first gunshot, looked out his window and saw an officer with a gun drawn and Brown "on his knees with his hands in the air." He added: "I seen him shoot him in the head."

But when later pressed by the investigator, the friend said he had not seen the actual shooting because he was walking down the stairs at the time and instead had heard details from someone in the apartment complex.

"What you are saying you saw isn't forensically possible based on the evidence," the investigator told the friend.

Shortly after that, the friend asked if he could leave.

"I ain't feeling comfortable," he said.

Here a witness testified at the GJ hearing to something that he or she admittedly, when pressed, didn't see. I'm not sure how you would like differentiate this testimony from witness 40. Witness 40 is quite literally the flip side of these three other witnesses. All of these witnesses had an agenda and testified or provided statements in support of that agenda. Then when pressed during the GJ hearing, had to recant by stating that they did not actually witness the events that they testified or provided statements for.

Regarding the second half of your argument, it's already been discussed ad nauseum in the main thread in which you participated in, that had this been a normal case, it would not have even gone to a GJ hearing. The physical evidence in this case align heavily in favor of Wilson's testimony. I know you will retort that the prosecutor should have had the courage to not bring the case to a GJ hearing at all than instead of hiding behind the GJ, but as it's been explained, the way the GJ was used is only rare but not unprecedented and is typically used when it's a high profile case.

To address your last point, I entirely agree that prosecutorial discretion has been heavily perverted, but the solution is not to make it so that GJ hearings wrongfully indict more white people and police, but to make all GJ hearings more akin to the Wilson GJ proceeding whereby the GJ has the opportunity to see all the evidence and testimony. Here's an Op Ed addressing this viewpoint:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/12/06/harvey-silverglate-on-fergusons-unexpected-lessons/
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,277
28,135
136
world is upside down a flaming lib like homerjs is quoting fox news, without calling them 'fuaxnews'

I do recall quoting the article not quoting Fox News.

Fox News asserted Witness 40 proved Wilsons side of the story.

My entire contention is there are enough witnesses who's testimony conflicts to the degree where it should have gone to trial and that's where their credibility gets sorted out.

It is improper to do this in a probable cause hearing (GJ)
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
My entire contention is there are enough witnesses who's testimony conflicts to the degree where it should have gone to trial and that's where their credibility gets sorted out.

It is improper to do this in a probable cause hearing (GJ)

No, there has to be probable cause to indict. As it's been stated more than a few times having witnesses for and against a person in a grand jury is not unprecedented. The way this grand jury was done did not violate any standards or laws.
 
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