Witnessing first-hand what a clustertrash US healthcare is in... (Qs for UK ppl:)

[smackababy]

Because it is peoples health and lives we are talking about. It is just hard to look at from the outside and be able to justify companies existing simply to make profit from people getting sick.

I'm not saying there is a better way it just feels wrong.

These companies don't exist purely to profit from people getting sick. Do you honestly think every can afford healthcare? Insurance companies didn't spring up before the healthcare industry. People had to pay doctors for their work. A few smart men decided they could charge people monthly and cover the majority of those health care costs when someone got sick, and if they charged X amount and had Y amount of customers, they payouts would not be as much as the total amount they were bring in. Same thing with car insurance and every other type of insurance.

The problem that Obamacare was trying to solve was people without insurance (those that couldn't afford it) receiving health care (that is against the law to deny) and then just not paying. The hospitals only income comes from insurance companies paying for services or people paying for services and donations. If they perform services and nobody pays them, they have to adjust the cost of everything to cover it. The idea is that if everyone is now paying, the costs should be less. However, that is highly unlikely to lower the cost of insurance, because for every dollar the insurance company saves, it is a dollar extra in profit they can earn for their shareholders.

 

[Puppies04]

These companies don't exist purely to profit from people getting sick.

However, that is highly unlikely to lower the cost of insurance, because for every dollar the insurance company saves, it is a dollar extra in profit they can earn for their shareholders.

Ok....

Edit.

Just to be clear if you think any company in the world that has shareholders doesn't exist purely to make profit you are sadly mistaken.

 

[ponyo]

Korea doesn't pay 38% income tax, neither is sales tax in double digits. Our family was appalled at US income tax when we first came here.

I don't know about income tax but they pay 10% VAT tax. But it's rolled into the purchase price so it's not transparent. You can get back the 10% VAT if you're a foreign visitor.

 

[Fern]

-snip-
4. I'm just your above-avg tech guy in this forum. If I'm going through this much trouble, holy fvck, how much trouble are other average joe's going through???

Sounds to me like you may be over-thinking this.

Unless you have a pre-existing condition you cannot predict your medical care costs with any degree of certainty, so why try to game plan all of the bazillion possible scenarios?

Perhaps I don't adequately understand your situation though. In my state we have exactly one HI company (even though we're a large state). For us it's a bronze, silver or gold plan from that one HI company and as simple as looking at premiums + deductibles.

Fern

 

[blinblue]

My biggest gripe with our health care system is it is near impossible to figure out how much something costs beforehand. Imagine if buying something on Amazon was like getting health care: There would be no prices. You would get a bill 3 weeks later from your insurance company stating that they only cover 80% of their agreed price for the product, but guess what Amazon's price for that product is 150% above the agreed price, so go pay the difference. And good luck figuring out before hand what the agreed price vs the actual price is in a timely manner.

If there were some mandate that prices be clearly posted and available before hand, and also require that the lowest negotiated price from any insurance company is what you will pay (ie, get rid of the stupid in/out of network BS. No more having to be part of the right club to get a decent price), I think that would go pretty far in making health care a customer friendly experience.

 

[mugs]

How many times do we have to say "nothing is free"? Can you imagine a nominal 40% tax rate on earnings over $56,500? Doesn't even consider the 20% VAT rate.

You know what's awesome though? Our government spends more per capita on healthcare than theirs. Our government spends more per capita on healthcare than the UK. That's not even counting private insurance. And that's prior to the Affordable Care Act.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...INQYdpIexdgCTkQ7A&sig2=kh37D8u1gJj6xJdmFKouRw

 

[smackababy]

Ok....

Edit.

Just to be clear if you think any company in the world that has shareholders doesn't exist purely to make profit you are sadly mistaken.

They don't exist to profit from people getting sick. In fact, it is in their best interest for you not to get sick. They should regularly promote healthy lifestyle choices!

 

[Capt Caveman]

Isn't the OP married? Why isn't he on his wife's health insurance?

 

[Zeze]

Sounds to me like you may be over-thinking this.

Unless you have a pre-existing condition you cannot predict your medical care costs with any degree of certainty, so why try to game plan all of the bazillion possible scenarios?

Perhaps I don't adequately understand your situation though. In my state we have exactly one HI company (even though we're a large state). For us it's a bronze, silver or gold plan from that one HI company and as simple as looking at premiums + deductibles.

Fern

Yea, NJ here.

3 different companies (Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield, AmeriHealth, and something else).

Each company has about 1-3 plans PER bronze, silver, gold. That's 6-9 plans per company. 18 to 27 plans for me to pick from.

Now I don't want Bronze, that's clear. I don't care for some of gold. It still leaves me down to about 5-6 plans. 3 of them have identical deductible but with varying coverage (% vs flat rate), one has better specialist coverage, while other has better in-hospital care.

 

[Puppies04]

They don't exist to profit from people getting sick. In fact, it is in their best interest for you not to get sick. They should regularly promote healthy lifestyle choices!

If people hardly ever got sick nobody would bother with health insurance. The same way I don't have being hit by an asteroid insurance. If I owned an insurance company I would want more people to get sick then I can scare the crap out of them with statistics and charge them more for insurance which means I make the same % profit but with a much larger bottom line.

Trust me if I am enough of a dick to think like that the insurance companies will be 10 levels above me.

 

[IronWing]

My biggest gripe with our health care system is it is near impossible to figure out how much something costs beforehand. Imagine if buying something on Amazon was like getting health care: There would be no prices. You would get a bill 3 weeks later from your insurance company stating that they only cover 80% of their agreed price for the product, but guess what Amazon's price for that product is 150% above the agreed price, so go pay the difference. And good luck figuring out before hand what the agreed price vs the actual price is in a timely manner.

If there were some mandate that prices be clearly posted and available before hand, and also require that the lowest negotiated price from any insurance company is what you will pay (ie, get rid of the stupid in/out of network BS. No more having to be part of the right club to get a decent price), I think that would go pretty far in making health care a customer friendly experience.

But the one time my wife went to the hospital they explained that stating the prices upfront would "interfere with the doctor-patient relationship".

 

[Puppies04]

But the one time my wife went to the hospital they explained that stating the prices upfront would "interfere with the doctor-patient relationship".

Did they manage to keep a staight face whilst they said it?

 

[biostud]

With a middle income in Denmark I pay ~35% in taxes and 25% in VAT, so combined its ~45% tax.

 

[IronWing]

Did they manage to keep a staight face whilst they said it?

It was on one of the many, many pieces of paperwork. Everyone there was entirely too busy to talk to patients.

 

[Puppies04]

It was on one of the many, many pieces of paperwork. Everyone there was entirely too busy to talk to patients.

Sounds about right lol.

 

[Fern]

Yea, NJ here.

3 different companies (Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield, AmeriHealth, and something else).

Each company has about 1-3 plans PER bronze, silver, gold. That's 6-9 plans per company. 18 to 27 plans for me to pick from.

Now I don't want Bronze, that's clear. I don't care for some of gold. It still leaves me down to about 5-6 plans. 3 of them have identical deductible but with varying coverage (% vs flat rate), one has better specialist coverage, while other has better in-hospital care.

It occurs to me that something not yet mentioned might be important here and could possibly help you in deciding. From what I'm hearing in many reports a good many medical providers are not accepting all plans under Obamacare. I.e., the whole fuss over "if you like your doctor you can keep him". You might want to check with your doctor(s) and local hospital to make sure all those HI companies/plans are accepted there. If one wasn't I think that would force my choice against them.

Something else: I can see some medical providers having a problem with, and not accepting, coverage from a flat-fee type HI plan. That's basically trying to dictate prices and I can see problems with that. I would imagine that the doctor/hospital likes to set its own prices, thank you very much, in which case you may be left to pay 100% of the amount above the HI companies pre-set flat-fee. I don't know if doctors/hospitals want that. Under a % plan the doctors and hospitals can still be guaranteed they'll collect a good portion of their fee even if unusually high.

Fern

 

[dud]

4. I'm just your above-avg tech guy in this forum. If I'm going through this much trouble, holy fvck, how much trouble are other average joe's going through???

5. Then I talked to a friend in UK. They pay absolutely NOTHING. ZIP. Not even a $30 copay or anything NOTHING.

"Above -avg" tech guy, huh? Hey above-avg, move to the UK and report back on how you enjoy socialized medicine.

 

[mugs]

"Above -avg" tech guy, huh? Hey above-avg, move to the UK and report back on how you enjoy socialized medicine.

Why not just ask someone from the UK? Or Canada? Or dozens of other countries. They all love their healthcare systems, and they laugh at us for handling ours the way we do.

Oh, but a guy on talk radio told you socialism is teh evil, right?

 

[Sonikku]

This is what liberals just don't understand about socialized medicine. NOTHING IS FREE.

If the UK's healthcare was free they'd be paying $0 per capita. Not $3,433 like they are.

Once again America is on top, bigger and badder than every other country in the world. Liberals are just too obsessed with socialism to see it.


This sort of over the top political rhetoric is not welcome in OT.

AT Moderator ElFenix

 

[OverVolt]

It never ceases to amaze me how stupid people are when it comes to finances and healthcare. Your buddy in the UK is absolutely paying for his healthcare. The difference is he doesn't get any choices at all, so it looks like it's catering to his every need when really he's undoubtedly being taxed for it in other ways. People who think a government can provide free healthcare are the dumbest of the dumb.

Not free but healthcare is a bit like a monopoly in the private sector. Prices charged aren't for the greater good, just like a power monopoly left to its own devices ends up gouging its customers. If a colonoscopy costs $900 in one town and $3,700 in the next one over it reeks of local monopolies. You need the government and their bargaining power to set fair prices for the greater good.

Hence why alot of these programs in the UK and Canada end up paying a smaller portion of GDP toward healthcare and have similar or better health outcomes.

 

[OverVolt]

Why not just ask someone from the UK? Or Canada? Or dozens of other countries. They all love their healthcare systems, and they laugh at us for handling ours the way we do.

Oh, but a guy on talk radio told you socialism is teh evil, right?

Is regulating power monopolies socialism?

 

[rh71]

We had a slew of options through the employer and I spent about half a work day comparing them. It was pretty stressful and I too was wondering how the avg joe decides. In the end I had to decide between:
-$75/mo. HMO plan that has copays and no deductible and good coverage for hospital/xray/surgeries.
vs.
- $10/mo. PPO plan that has no copays but a $2k deductible and much less hospital/xray/surgery coverage.

In the end, because I participate in a contact sport, and I've had surgery before, I decided to pay the $75/mo. So tempting to just risk the $10/mo. though. There was also a $0/mo. that was a very high deductible.

 

[brianmanahan]

I'm just your above-avg tech guy in this forum

please submit code sample for above-avg tech guy verification

also lake wobegon, lol

 

[Puppies04]

If a colonoscopy costs $900 in one town and $3,700 in the next one over it reeks of local monopolies.

I hear they are only $50 in Olds basement.

 

[Meghan54]

As long as health care is primarily run by for-profit corps, we'll never progress and will continue to outspend the rest of the civilized world and get results that place us around Cuba.