work/life balance and security in Europe and US

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Linflas

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: Linflas

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: fiksi

Well, it's not like i haven't been in US... i just wondered why my US colleague was afraid if he got bad teeth- when i heard prices they charge for little things, i couldn't believe it!

Few teeth, leg and kidney and you're bankrupt...

BTW- look at US economy, dollar is ALL time low, Deficit is record, debt is record... Euro is holding, unemployment is falling in EU. Wouldn't say US economy is doing great... if you keep piling that debt and deficit, it will be bad for you, and in THE end- for all of us.

I don't think you understand much of anything about america.

You get health insurance, it pays for all of your medical expenses. So stop this "you go bankrupt!" nonsense. Also do you even know what bankruptcy is?

that has to be the most ignorant statement i've seen concerning our health insurance policies.

break a leg outside of your HMO's network, then see how willing they are to cover you.
or...get in a carwreck, take a ride in an ambulance (while unconscious, of course), and wee how willing they are to help you out since you "neglected" to OK an out-of-network trip on that ambulance ride.

HMO's are run by profiteers, not medical personel.

My mother in law has had to visit the emergency room on 2 different occasions while visiting us here in Virginia. She is from Montreal, Quebec and guess how much of the bill her wonderful national health care reimbursed her for? Try 0. Oddly enough even though they had no guarantee of ever receiving a single cent in payment for their services both time the hospital here treated her without hesitation.

again, it's not about being denied treatment. It's about being confronted with the cost. Hospitals are routinely driven into bankruptcy b/c of the BS insurance industry. They have policies to cover these expenses, but that don't make up for the costs, often forcing them to sell out to the Insurance Company.

So, where did the bill for your mother-in-law's emergency visits go?

The bills went to her of course and like any responsible person she paid them out of her own pocket since the Canadian system would not. Most places I have worked that offer HMO also offer a PPO plan as an alternative. They cost more but I am willing to pay the cost in order to not have to deal with the limitations of HMO's.

as do I. anyhoo, I don't think that any countries healthcare is perfect. But I think the universal coverage you get in other countries is a step in the right direction. Indeed, in the US we can depend on an average higher-quality healthcare than anyone else. Which is a very nice thing, and perhaps the argument for why the system is crowded.

still...I would love to see a portion of that $430 billion dumped in Iraq have gone towards your mother-in-law's hospital stays.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

No, I wasn't one of the people that landed on Omaha beach, My grandfather was and he says you can suck his cock anytime.

 

[Excelsior]

healthcare is a universal human right, no different than adequate drinking water, education, etc.

Wrong. Health care is absolutely not a universal human right.

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
No, I wasn't one of the people that landed on Omaha beach, My grandfather was and he says you can suck his cock anytime.

I doubt that he said that, that great generation had manners and style, he's probably ashamed that he has a family like you, you know the "fat armchair general generation"
thank him for his contribution


you are just a ghetto punk

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: zinfamous
BTW: Freedom is not having to choose, let alone PAY for medical care. In fact, our system is the antithesis of freedom when it comes to health care. The private insurance companies, who restrict medical professionals towards what kind of care they can provide, who determine where you will be given this care, are not concerned with your freedom.

so the insurance companies are holding a gun to yours and the doctor's heads forcing you to not pay cash and the doctor not to accept cash?



again, medical care is scarce and must be rationed in some fashion. that you think anything, let alone something as complex as medical care, can go unpaid for shows how naive you are.

argh. that's not my point at all. healthcare is a universal human right, no different than adequate drinking water, education, etc. There is currently $435 billion of taxpayer money that has been thrown into the pooper over an illegitimate war that 72% of Americans do not support.

...this indeed sounds like a nice revenue source to provide healthcare. Do you disagree?

Universal human right? You must like going to Amsterdam and smoking lots of pot in the bars. The Only human right you have at birth is that you have the right to die. Show me one place where it says I have the RIGHT to health care? Does the Constitution or whatever document your country use to law out it's fundamental values and laws state that everyone has the right to Universal health care? Does the Bible or Koran or Snoopy comic strip say everyone get universal health care? Also notice, it says universal, not FREE.

my country? go back and read some of my posts.

you are an insult to your name, btw. The Dude would certainly not abide such bastardization of his good name

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: zinfamous


argh. that's not my point at all. healthcare is a universal human right, no different than adequate drinking water, education, etc. There is currently $435 billion of taxpayer money that has been thrown into the pooper over an illegitimate war that 72% of Americans do not support.

...this indeed sounds like a nice revenue source to provide healthcare. Do you disagree?

i disagree that anyone provides "healthcare." and if it was provided it'd certainly be a failure.

and there is more money in the overhead of the current system than in the iraq occupation.


you still haven't shown how you can overcome the scarcity of the good.

well, if there's plenty in the overhead, then the Iraq money could go into building new hospitals and clinics, hiring more professionals. The resources are certainly there...

 

[fiksi]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: fiksi

Originally posted by: wyvrn

Originally posted by: fiksi
Might be an interesting thing to discuss...

I've been around the world, seen Europe(where i live) and US, also have friends and relatives in both places.

First of all, Europeans get long guaranteed and paid vacations, which Americans don't have at all guaranteed by law-was a bit shocking to em at first! So, a company can offer you, and also can refuse to do so... god forbid if you are not skilled, and work for some little company,
you may get nothing at all!

Yes, was wondering what happens when you get sick... also, few days, or nothing! Here, you get a portion of your pay if you're really sick, and have nothing to fear.

Heard a lady somewhere working as call agent couldn't get days off to CARE for her sick daughter! Also, i hear ppl are afraid of getting sick at all...

No wonder, because you can get fired anyday, for no reason at all... so, my boss is angry this morning, i get fired... nice.

Health insurance? Millions of Americans are uninsured, and afraid to fall sick... prices to be insured are enormous, and many companies don0t even offer insurance. If you lose a job, insurance is pricey as gold, GOD forbid you have some existing condition, then you're f****d.

paid Mother leave...not in America! Is there an industrialzed country that doesn't give that?
Only US... (richest country with LEAST benefits)

Oh, and i forgot, more and more Americans go belly up because of health bills.
Us health system ranks VERY bad, countries spending three times less are better off.
It is PERFECT for rich, but for whole population? I don't think so... i got dizzy when i heard costs for operations, even when you're insured.

And yes, Americans work long hours... actually, there is no limit to how much your employer can push you it seems.


Ah, YES, wages... ppl think they are higer in US. While average may be somewhat higher, median is lower than in developed Europe. Distribution is uneven, poverty is astonishing in such rich country. Slums, gangs, violence etc.

Minimum wage is a joke! I read stories of ppl getting this, no health insurance, no nothing, no vacation... do you wonder why their children might turn to streets?

Even if you are well off, you are AS good as much as you work, get sick, disabled or something, and face doom. Seems disabled/sick people here get more money than bottom 20% of Americans working their asses off like crazy(not to mention they HAVE health insurance)


Europe places stronger emphasis on family, benefits, health and wellbeing of society. Parents have time off to be with children, and overworked parents lead to children wandering around streets, early sex etc. (might explain some problems in US)

No wonder, i met Americans here in Europe... they say they like it here, and life is much better for them, for children. Quality isn't only $$$.

What use is all of my money, if i go belly up if i get a stroke?

Even more so, THERE is money to solve this problems in US, instead dealing with poverty, health etc. $$$ are spent in wars etc. Seems everything is done for corporate profits, and people are behind.

We've worked so hard to move past harsh capitalism and beginnings of industrial age, so now people can enjoy, and we can have a humane society...

I like US, especially California, but i wonder why don't people do anything about that?
As for me, i PREFER lower growth, less money and happier life...

Didn't read all of the thread, just the first 15 posts or so. This post is so full of ignorant crap that I had to reply. You sound like a complete idiot, and a troll to boot. First, Family Medical Leave act gives mothers 12 weeks when they have a baby. This is Federal Law, and a company cannot fire you for taking the extra time. Most companies offer 6 weeks paid leave already, and the extra 6 are not paid but most of the time you can use your paid vacation in substitution. Also, most companies are now offering 4-6 weeks of paid paternity leave for fathers. For example, a male executive at my firm just took 6 weeks paid off when his wife gave birth. Now there are some exceptions with part time workers who are not always protected by the same laws, but part time work is very transient anyway and easier to obtain when a woman wants to re-enter the workforce.

Seconly, our healthcare is not universal, but it is higher quality. I am in Holland in the moment on business. One of colleagues here is complaining about his mother-in-law, who CANNOT get proper treatment for cancer, even with her full state coverage, because there are not enough resources and doctors. So in other words, she is dying and the government cannot guarantee her care, even though she was guaranteed exactly that in the first place. So much for the higher taxes to pay for health care. At least in the US, you can obtain care. Most people have insurance which is heavily subsidized by corporations. Most people pay about $50 per month for themselves, sometimes $150-$300 for a family of 3-4. That is not bad considering we make more than anyone else. And their are free hospitals for basic care. I know because my wife has worked at one for 7 years.

Thirdly, Europe has a low standard of living. I have a 3100 square foot house that I paid $210,000 for 3 years ago. Appreciation brings that to about $250,000 now, and I do not live on the coasts either. I live in TX. But my standard of living here is extremely high. Everything is cheap, including child care, food, and entertainment. I am in Europe, and Directors over here who out earn me and out rank me have much smaller habitation, so-so health care, very small cheap cars, and cannot afford to eat out all the time. I would say their average quality of living is much lower. Now, they like to come to the US because of exchange rates makes it cheap, and they get more when they are here. There is a reason for that.

I like Europe a lot. I plan to travel here quite a bit. But the picture you have painted in your post is completely out of line.

YOU simply don't realise, now do you?

The source is NOT me, but all the researches and everything...

best cities to live in the world- most in Europe. Best countries to live in-most in Europe. Best quality of life- most countries in Europe.

Minimum wage in EU is in some countries almost double of yours. Wages, median, are HIGHER. Access to free education, medical help etc is almost universal.


NO, america is not the best country to live in, by quality of life... because quality of life
is more than money.

YOu keep forgetting that MANY things you PAY we get here for free... kindergartens, universities, many things.


If YOU think USA has highest salaries on for example IT managers- then scroll HERE, down to middle...

http://www.finfacts.ie/Private/isl/salcomp.htm

US ranks number 14 for wages for IT managers!

Every, but EVERY research, or anything places European countries higher in quality of life...
So, all of THEM must be wrong, right?

And i never attacked anyone here, or called him/her an idiot...

Adjust your figures for buying power, and we are the highest paid in the world.

Also, you get NOTHING for free, except maybe national security provided by the United States. You pay for what you get through taxes.

Adjust it all you want, minimum wage in Europe-developed countries is in purchasing power much higher than US.

Also, per capita, however you adjust it, usa is not the leader...

You can find all of that data by yourself...

 

[Carom]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: zinfamous
BTW: Freedom is not having to choose, let alone PAY for medical care. In fact, our system is the antithesis of freedom when it comes to health care. The private insurance companies, who restrict medical professionals towards what kind of care they can provide, who determine where you will be given this care, are not concerned with your freedom.

so the insurance companies are holding a gun to yours and the doctor's heads forcing you to not pay cash and the doctor not to accept cash?



again, medical care is scarce and must be rationed in some fashion. that you think anything, let alone something as complex as medical care, can go unpaid for shows how naive you are.

argh. that's not my point at all. healthcare is a universal human right, no different than adequate drinking water, education, etc. There is currently $435 billion of taxpayer money that has been thrown into the pooper over an illegitimate war that 72% of Americans do not support.

...this indeed sounds like a nice revenue source to provide healthcare. Do you disagree?

Universal human right? You must like going to Amsterdam and smoking lots of pot in the bars. The Only human right you have at birth is that you have the right to die. Show me one place where it says I have the RIGHT to health care? Does the Constitution or whatever document your country use to law out it's fundamental values and laws state that everyone has the right to Universal health care? Does the Bible or Koran or Snoopy comic strip say everyone get universal health care? Also notice, it says universal, not FREE.

The United States is a charter member of the United Nations

United Nations, Universal Declaration of Human Rights, 1948
Article 25. (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Carom

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: zinfamous
BTW: Freedom is not having to choose, let alone PAY for medical care. In fact, our system is the antithesis of freedom when it comes to health care. The private insurance companies, who restrict medical professionals towards what kind of care they can provide, who determine where you will be given this care, are not concerned with your freedom.

so the insurance companies are holding a gun to yours and the doctor's heads forcing you to not pay cash and the doctor not to accept cash?



again, medical care is scarce and must be rationed in some fashion. that you think anything, let alone something as complex as medical care, can go unpaid for shows how naive you are.

argh. that's not my point at all. healthcare is a universal human right, no different than adequate drinking water, education, etc. There is currently $435 billion of taxpayer money that has been thrown into the pooper over an illegitimate war that 72% of Americans do not support.

...this indeed sounds like a nice revenue source to provide healthcare. Do you disagree?

Universal human right? You must like going to Amsterdam and smoking lots of pot in the bars. The Only human right you have at birth is that you have the right to die. Show me one place where it says I have the RIGHT to health care? Does the Constitution or whatever document your country use to law out it's fundamental values and laws state that everyone has the right to Universal health care? Does the Bible or Koran or Snoopy comic strip say everyone get universal health care? Also notice, it says universal, not FREE.

The United States is a charter member of the United Nations

United Nations, Universal Declaration of Human Rights, 1948
Article 25. (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

ouch...


but don't expect a favorable opinoin of the UN from the closet repubs here.... no matter it's intent, it's failures (those that relate only to US interest) are far too great for them...

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: fiksi

Adjust it all you want, minimum wage in Europe-developed countries is in purchasing power much higher than US.

Also, per capita, however you adjust it, usa is not the leader...

You can find all of that data by yourself...

again, who cares about minimum wage when the only people getting it are high school students who live under mom and dad's roof?

 

[intogamer]

When you mean better, are you talking about EU or Europe :roll:

 

[fiksi]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: fiksi

Adjust it all you want, minimum wage in Europe-developed countries is in purchasing power much higher than US.

Also, per capita, however you adjust it, usa is not the leader...

You can find all of that data by yourself...

again, who cares about minimum wage when the only people getting it are high school students who live under mom and dad's roof?

Who says that the minimum wage in Europe's developed countries, which is a lot higher, does not go just to same population you mentioned?

 

[fiksi]

Originally posted by: intogamer
When you mean better, are you talking about EU or Europe :roll:

Talking about western countries in Europe, and northern countries. Living standard is higher there. As for the rest of countries, even poor European countries have better social systems than US.

 

[fiksi]

Originally posted by: Carom

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: zinfamous
BTW: Freedom is not having to choose, let alone PAY for medical care. In fact, our system is the antithesis of freedom when it comes to health care. The private insurance companies, who restrict medical professionals towards what kind of care they can provide, who determine where you will be given this care, are not concerned with your freedom.

so the insurance companies are holding a gun to yours and the doctor's heads forcing you to not pay cash and the doctor not to accept cash?



again, medical care is scarce and must be rationed in some fashion. that you think anything, let alone something as complex as medical care, can go unpaid for shows how naive you are.

argh. that's not my point at all. healthcare is a universal human right, no different than adequate drinking water, education, etc. There is currently $435 billion of taxpayer money that has been thrown into the pooper over an illegitimate war that 72% of Americans do not support.

...this indeed sounds like a nice revenue source to provide healthcare. Do you disagree?

Universal human right? You must like going to Amsterdam and smoking lots of pot in the bars. The Only human right you have at birth is that you have the right to die. Show me one place where it says I have the RIGHT to health care? Does the Constitution or whatever document your country use to law out it's fundamental values and laws state that everyone has the right to Universal health care? Does the Bible or Koran or Snoopy comic strip say everyone get universal health care? Also notice, it says universal, not FREE.

The United States is a charter member of the United Nations

United Nations, Universal Declaration of Human Rights, 1948
Article 25. (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

Well, this is just what i was looking for... it tells everything.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: fiksi

Who says that the minimum wage in Europe's developed countries, which is a lot higher, does not go just to same population you mentioned?

exactly! that's why it's stupid to look at. less than 2% of the working population here works for minimum wage (or less) and the (or less) part is made of wait staff that makes well above minimum wage once tips are factored in. minimum wage, contrary to popular belief, is not part of the social safety net. (in fact, minimum wage is more of a tool of unions to increase unionized labor).

 

[fiksi]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: fiksi

Who says that the minimum wage in Europe's developed countries, which is a lot higher, does not go just to same population you mentioned?

exactly! that's why it's stupid to look at. less than 2% of the working population here works for minimum wage (or less) and the (or less) part is made of wait staff that makes well above minimum wage once tips are factored in. minimum wage, contrary to popular belief, is not part of the social safety net. (in fact, minimum wage is more of a tool of unions to increase unionized labor).

You could just look at median salary then (NOT average,median- salary of 1/2ppl is lower,of 1/2 higher).
In that case, some Euro countries also fare quite a bit better...

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

I'm not so sure if I thought I lived in superior country that I'd feel the need to initiate a lengthy post about it and argue at length about it on the Internet. It actually smacks far more of a lack of security in your beliefs like you want to convince yourself you are right.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
Lets not forget that Europe creates all these social programs at the expense of their own security, well not really because the U.S. provides them their security. Without a U.S. deterrent, Russia could steamroll through Europe, just as they would have 50yrs ago if we werent standing guard over your continent. If the U.S. decided to pack up and go home, you would be completely at the whim of your eastern neighbors, because living under the skirt of the U.S. for so long has made you impotent to external threats. You think you are better than us because you can sit back and enjoy the benefits of having another country at your becking call to look after you. We cant afford these grand social programs, because we are busy trying to keep order in a world European colonial powers royally fucked up. Europe hates us because they need us.

if the Russians would try something they would be welcomed by a couple of hundred French and English ICBM

actually they wouldn't. the russians would have called their bluff

the russians could have easily gobbled up a state or two and then survived the outrage.

as said, the euros do have a lot of social spending, but its at expensive of their global responsibilities. and its done under the us defence unbrella. these are facts they do not want to acknowledge when they pretend they are morally superior to the us.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: fiksi

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: fiksi

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: fiksi
http://time-blog.com/curious_capitalist/2007/06/americas_poor_overtaxed_corpor.html

read this... "communist" Europe lower on taxes? It can't be... Also, count in all federal and state taxes for wages, you'll see it's not that little...

@MagicConch-> Spain is a poor country, kind of... wages are like half of wages in most developed western countries.

Unemployment rates? Here you go...

I'll give you standardised employment rates by OECD- you'll see US isn't so "shiny".

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/15/24/38335554.pdf

I asked for unemployment rate, not employment rate. You can't calculate one off of the other.

I gave it ALREADY...

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa....7/3-03072007-EN-AP.PDF

read and comment

BTW, Norway is too cold for me otherwise... hmm

I was referring to west countries, not eastern... when i was talking about things.

I was born in one former communist country...

I think that explains a lot of your thinking.

Comment for the link: US is quit better than the majority of European countries. Hats off to Netherlands and Denmark, though. And I knew Ireland's economy was chugging along well, but the US would get hammered and the world would be in crisis if it had the unemployment rates of some of those countries.

Really? I'm not communist or anything, i'm GLAD it's over...
Why would health benefits, caring for sick etc be communist? I still work... we work in Europe, ppl, we work!


Unemployment in EU is falling quickly, as economies are gaining momentum...
US is not economically that far ahead of Europe anymore. Look at the list of richest countries per capita, richer are some EU countries than US.

Also, US has MOUNTANEOS debt! Your debt is going through the roof!

Deficit? What's US trade deficit?


DID YOU know Germany EXPORTS more goods than ALL OF USA?? Us is importing goods, creating debt... on your backs. US deficit is RECORD high! Find me developed EU countries, with this high deficit...

you fail at economics. you will fail at life.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: spidey07
Zinfamous,

You are more than welcome to purchase a more comprehensive plan that meets your needs. THAT's freedom.

you still don't get it, Jr. I'm pretty sure my plan is better than anything you would be offered. read my latest posts.

BTW: Freedom is not having to choose, let alone PAY for medical care. In fact, our system is the antithesis of freedom when it comes to health care. The private insurance companies, who restrict medical professionals towards what kind of care they can provide, who determine where you will be given this care, are not concerned with your freedom.

This isn't about my health plan, it's about the millions in this country who have no care, who have a significantly shorter lifespan, and even those who are covered but are driven into poverty b/c they have no choice of health plan.

Anyhoo, this thread is about jingoistic Americans without any experience outside of the country (read: absolutely no understanding of what their rights or freedoms mean, let alone grounds for comparing the US system to any other) blasting the OP after bltatantly misreading his intent. get back on it

It's almost laughable but more scary at how you see the US medical system.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: zinfamous


argh. that's not my point at all. healthcare is a universal human right, no different than adequate drinking water, education, etc. There is currently $435 billion of taxpayer money that has been thrown into the pooper over an illegitimate war that 72% of Americans do not support.

...this indeed sounds like a nice revenue source to provide healthcare. Do you disagree?

i disagree that anyone provides "healthcare." and if it was provided it'd certainly be a failure.

and there is more money in the overhead of the current system than in the iraq occupation.


you still haven't shown how you can overcome the scarcity of the good.

well, if there's plenty in the overhead, then the Iraq money could go into building new hospitals and clinics, hiring more professionals. The resources are certainly there...

You can build all the hospitals you want but you can't exactly build doctors and nurses :roll:

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: zinfamous


argh. that's not my point at all. healthcare is a universal human right, no different than adequate drinking water, education, etc. There is currently $435 billion of taxpayer money that has been thrown into the pooper over an illegitimate war that 72% of Americans do not support.

...this indeed sounds like a nice revenue source to provide healthcare. Do you disagree?

i disagree that anyone provides "healthcare." and if it was provided it'd certainly be a failure.

and there is more money in the overhead of the current system than in the iraq occupation.


you still haven't shown how you can overcome the scarcity of the good.

well, if there's plenty in the overhead, then the Iraq money could go into building new hospitals and clinics, hiring more professionals. The resources are certainly there...

You can build all the hospitals you want but you can't exactly build doctors and nurses :roll:

by resources, I don't just mean money to go into it. I should have said "people." I apologize for my vaguery, and lack of details when I get into a posting storm (I try to make them brief, really I do...)

We have the best medical training programs in the world. We have the best hospitals in the world. There are plenty of people in this country, as well as the rest of the world, that would be willing to train and work here more than anywhere else, IF we provided a friendly environment to practice medicine (which the US does not do--ask a doctor, I have plenty of them in my family btw...and will be going into the medical profession myself....), as well as the necessary infrastructure.

This is what has happened in Bush's war against stem cells. The majority of our best talent, in this--the most promising field of medical research--has fled to Ireland, Switzerland, Singapore, et al. We have become unfriendly towards medicine...how should we expect our "wonderful" healthcare system to survive this great "F-you!" to the leading medical base? (God Bless Arny though, for seeing the light.... :beer

should medicine be determined by Pat Robertson? That's what the Admins want, and you know it.

(This (ES cells) is a Bush thing--healthcare in general has been broke for many, many years. certainly not the worst, far from the best, but plenty of room for improvement. In our system profit comes first--and not medicine. Those who think otherwise (you) are clearly naive. I've never said that medical professionals think this way, but the malpractice-driven insurance companies do...)

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: fiksi

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: fiksi

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: fiksi
http://time-blog.com/curious_capitalist/2007/06/americas_poor_overtaxed_corpor.html

read this... "communist" Europe lower on taxes? It can't be... Also, count in all federal and state taxes for wages, you'll see it's not that little...

@MagicConch-> Spain is a poor country, kind of... wages are like half of wages in most developed western countries.

Unemployment rates? Here you go...

I'll give you standardised employment rates by OECD- you'll see US isn't so "shiny".

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/15/24/38335554.pdf

I asked for unemployment rate, not employment rate. You can't calculate one off of the other.

I gave it ALREADY...

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa....7/3-03072007-EN-AP.PDF

read and comment

BTW, Norway is too cold for me otherwise... hmm

I was referring to west countries, not eastern... when i was talking about things.

I was born in one former communist country...

I think that explains a lot of your thinking.

Comment for the link: US is quit better than the majority of European countries. Hats off to Netherlands and Denmark, though. And I knew Ireland's economy was chugging along well, but the US would get hammered and the world would be in crisis if it had the unemployment rates of some of those countries.

Really? I'm not communist or anything, i'm GLAD it's over...
Why would health benefits, caring for sick etc be communist? I still work... we work in Europe, ppl, we work!


Unemployment in EU is falling quickly, as economies are gaining momentum...
US is not economically that far ahead of Europe anymore. Look at the list of richest countries per capita, richer are some EU countries than US.

Also, US has MOUNTANEOS debt! Your debt is going through the roof!

Deficit? What's US trade deficit?


DID YOU know Germany EXPORTS more goods than ALL OF USA?? Us is importing goods, creating debt... on your backs. US deficit is RECORD high! Find me developed EU countries, with this high deficit...

you fail at economics. you will fail at life.

because economists are experts in life :roll: While I believe an economist would make a far better president than any we have ever seen, they are not the arbitors of how one should live a fulfilled life.

EDIT: for fusetalk ignorance

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: fiksi

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: fiksi

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
fiksi, you are an idiot. It's sad that you can't see past your own ignorance.

So i am an idiot for giving something to think? I am an idiot for giving
you real statistical data, i am an idiot who has traveled around teh world and Europe,
i am an idiot who was always in top of class?

I am an idiot because i work and get paid well, with all benefits?

Well, if it is so, then be it. Your fellow Americans here don't think that way. Perhaps they are all idiots for coming in Europe?

You didn't give any statistical data, only conjecture based on your "experiences".

BTW, how do you account for the numerous Europeans who have moved to the US? Many more, I would think than Americans who have moved to Europe?

What about minimum wages before? I gave data, which shows what minimum wage is in US, and what purchasing power it gives.


Well, most Europeans who moved to states seem to be from eastern european countries, and because almost all ppl know english- they went to states. Also,
i didn't say that doctor or top engineer doesn't have higher salary in US, he DOES.

In that respect, Europe is still lagging somewhat.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2006.htm

Less than 500,000 people are paid minimum wage. Over half of them are college aged kids or younger. It's statisically insignificiant because it's not intended to be a living wage. It's supplemental income.

There are another 1.3 million that make less than minimum wage but those are service oriented with tip compensation that isn't factored into the hourly rate. Many of those workers are making far more than the minimum once that is factored in. And my point still stands that it was never intended to be a living wage.

Let's gain some perspective here. Minimum wage here is about $8/hr. That works out to roughly 16k a year. That's about 27% of the country. 42% of Americans earn under 25k a year, which is still drastically below poverty level. 70% earn less than 50k a year, which is where we enter good middle-income living. Don't sugar coat things...most Americans earn next to nothing.

 

[jackace]

It's plain and simple really. If you are an unskilled or uneducated worker in the US you will most likely earn poverty wages. If you are a skilled and/or educated worker you will most likely earn a middle class living with a possibility of higher level earnings. I'm not saying I agree with the situation. In fact I would like to see all full-time workers make enough money so they are not reliant on the government and other social programs to support themselves and their families.

In most areas of the country minimum wage would need to be raised to $15-$18/hour (or more in places like NYC and San Fransisco) to allow families to support children without any government aide. If this type of change occurred it would put a lot of service based businesses out of business or force them to rethink their business models. This is not a bad thing though. Us Americans would have to reconsider the worth of a house keeper, eating at restaurants, washing our cars, etc. Things us Americans pay others to do might not be worth the cost if the person doing the service is making a "living" wage rather then "poverty" wages. The same thing would apply to Corporate America. A lot of the services they sub-contract out will actually end up being handled in-house.

The pitifully low wages most Americans earn does not benefit the US. It actually hurts our country and our way of life. It also helps to facilitate 2 of the largest concerns in the US today, outsourcing and illegal immigrants.