World Chess Federation bows to iran

[realibrad]

Gawd. The whole thing is petty & dim. It's really a small thing, like women covering their breasts (actually their nipples) in public in our culture. When it comes to things that really matter, like women's dominion over their own bodies, the double standard becomes obvious. Well, to anybody capable of seeing it. That's not rabid pro lifers going on about head scarves.

I'm not a pro lifer and yet I see your argument as "it's okay because it's just a little sexism, we only need worry about big sexism". This is not on the level of genital mutilation, but it's still bad and sexist. You can agree on that and still say TH is being inconsistent in his beliefs.

 

[realibrad]

Dude, you're arguing against something that I did not say. Go play with someone else cause I'm not interested.

I did not accuse you of anything. I asked so as not to presume. You came in with a snarky comment that I could not gather your position on the matter. Your second response seems to imply that you might not think this as sexist or at least not that sexist. I asked what I thought was a non provoking question but you sure seem to be pissy about it.

 

[realibrad]

Closer to home:

Speaking up about skimpy clothes could cost waitresses their jobs: labour groups

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...waitresses-their-jobs-labour-groups-1.3486612

Bosses admit they would discriminate against women not wearing makeup

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/10...iminate-against-women-not-wearing-makeup.html

What does this have to do with the situation? At the very least you seem to show there are other issues in the world. Are we not allowed to criticize sexism abroad because things happen around us too?

 

[realibrad]

This is definitely an attack the OP since there's no way to defend this thread. Insane that the would follow through with this. I dont care if it's Islamic or Christian or ancient Egyptian customs or what, women shouldn't be forced to dress any different than men. Having to cover their hair or face or anything is a huge slap in the face to women everywhere. It's 2016, it's time the Middle East get with the times rather than women from the rest of he world curtailing to them.

It's a signaling circle jerk. TH is not allowed to talk about sexism because he is an ass. We can't talk about it because the real issue is not sexism bit the OP and his issues. Remember only the pure can point out imperfect.

 

[Victorian Gray]

What does this have to do with the situation? At the very least you seem to show there are other issues in the world. Are we not allowed to criticize sexism abroad because things happen around us too?

Feel free to defend hypocrisy all you want to. Nobody is trying to 'silence' you.

 

[Victorian Gray]

It's a signaling circle jerk. TH is not allowed to talk about sexism because he is an ass. We can't talk about it because the real issue is not sexism bit the OP and his issues. Remember only the pure can point out imperfect.

Lose the victimhood. TH can talk about sexism all he wants to. Just as the rest of us are allowed to point out that the only reason he's doing so is because he's bored again and decided to troll the forum just as he does every other time he's bored.

In short, the reason he's talking about it *is *because he's being an ass and not because he gives a damn about women's rights in Iran.

And you're pretending that you don't understand this? Why?

 

[Victorian Gray]

I did not accuse you of anything. I asked so as not to presume. You came in with a snarky comment that I could not gather your position on the matter. Your second response seems to imply that you might not think this as sexist or at least not that sexist. I asked what I thought was a non provoking question but you sure seem to be pissy about it.

Once more time. Not gonna try and argue/defend things that I didn't say or do. You can have that particular fight with yourself.

 

[realibrad]

Feel free to defend hypocrisy all you want to. Nobody is trying to 'silence' you.

I never said anyone was trying to silence me. What I am saying is that you are simply here to signal. I believe this because when I asked you your opinion on the situation and not about the OP, you responded with this...

"Dude, you're arguing against something that I did not say. Go play with someone else cause I'm not interested."

I'm trying to have a conversation about this. I am not sure what you are doing in this thread though. I will ask again. Do you think this is sexist by Iran, do do you believe the org had a response that was not simply dismissive? I personally think its shit that this is happening and I am glad those women who are bringing this up are doing so.

 

[Grooveriding]

Ever been to a wedding in a Catholic church ? The bride and bridesmaids are expected to wear dresses that do not expose their arms and cleavage.

i live in a neighbourhood that has a good number of hasidic jews. I see the women in their long black dresses and flat shoes in the dead heat of Summer having to walk around like that.

Religion is quite likely the largest contributor to the oppression of women. All of them make the point that women are inferior/subservient to men and are to blame for men's attraction to them. Batshit crazy ideologies that have vilified what is normal inherent behaviour to keep the species propagating.

 

[realibrad]

Ever been to a wedding in a Catholic church ? The bride and bridesmaids are expected to wear dresses that do not expose their arms and cleavage.

i live in a neighbourhood that has a good number of hasidic jews. I see the women in their long black dresses and flat shoes in the dead heat of Summer having to walk around like that.

Religion is quite likely the largest contributor to the oppression of women. All of them make the point that women are inferior/subservient to men and are to blame for men's attraction to them. Batshit crazy ideologies that have vilified what is normal inherent behaviour to keep the species propagating.

Agreed. We should be far more willing to call out shit religion and religious cultures. For some reason, some here don't like to see others call out other cultures when stuff happens closer.

 

[arsjum]

Of course not, the NFL has handed down harsh penalties (like a two game suspension) for players who beat up women.

But back to the point, do men have a natural biological advantage over women in chess?

Yes, they do. For those who are not familiar with chess, it may seem strange but professional chess games last 5-6 hours and require, among other things, a great deal of physical endurance. And I'm not talking about the preparation.

Besides, when women manage to play on the same level, they are not prohibited from participating in tournaments and matches against men. Nevertheless, only a small number of women, usually world champions or prodigies such as J. Polgar, square off against men.

 

[nickqt]

Most of the people in this thread don't even care about the story, they just really enjoy using Texashiker as a punching bag because it makes them feel more smug

Actually, Texashiker punches himself in the face and we just sit back and laugh. It's not so much that we're laughing at Texashiker, as much as he just doesn't seem to understand why he should be laughing at himself.

In essence, we're laughing with Texashiker, but he just doesn't see how much of a joke he is, so it seems much more malevolent than it really is.

Really. We're laughing with him. He's just still working up to understanding why he should be laughing at himself.

 

[agent00f]

A lot of places have dress codes, like formal business attire for women. This is just your "do you hate muslims, too?" controversy for bigots.

 

[woolfe9998]

But your argument was a general statement, not about TH logic. You were trying to exemplify TH's bigotry by saying that Eastern Europe has the same type of thing going on. While it is true that the religious there also have dumb rules, it is many factors of magnitude different in terms of punishment. It would be completely illegal to be punished in the same ways that Iran currently has.

So, while the issue does not seem directly related to politics, it does bring to light a troubling issue that people are okay with dismissing sexism as "culture".

Indeed. You're basically spot on here. I've highlighted the part that sums it up tidily.

 

[realibrad]

A lot of places have dress codes, like formal business attire for women. This is just your "do you hate muslims, too?" controversy for bigots.

Spot on. We all know that if women don't adhere to those formal clothing rules they too are publicly lashed and or imprisoned. They are very much the same. It's not like women can wear a suit like men...oh wait. Well still the same punishment.

 

[cytg111]

It is held in Iran. Their country their rules, dont like em dont go.
Just as we might implement laws against religious headwear, if they want to play chess when a tournament is held here, they have to loose said headwear .. or dont come at all.

 

[Qwertilot]

The point isn't that you shouldn't at least humour Iran when choosing to play a tournament there, its purposefully choosing to hold a World Championship there which is a bit of a problem.

The worst part of it is actually much more that there's several countries with genuinely non trivial chess presences - Israel for starters - who will have real trouble participating.

The leadership of FIDE really is seriously bad at the moment, and has been for quite some time.

 

[zinfamous]

Most of the people in this thread don't even care about the story, they just really enjoy using Texashiker as a punching bag because it makes them feel more smug.



The issue isn't simply that Iran has a culture of forcing women to wear head-scarves. The issue is that this is a Western international sports organization failed to ask its representatives how they felt about playing in a restrictive, sexist nation.

No.

Western women travel to these middle eastern regions and usually adopt these practices either out of respect, or simply because it allows you to interact with the locals. What is often missed, also, is that some women actually prefer to wear hijab, western or not, if having grown up in that culture and actually given a choice to do so or not. The differences in thought here can be generational but also an acceptance of the reality that traveling in these countries without adopting a rather simple cultural norm paints you as an outsider and can easily isolate you.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/02/08/cover-story-personal-history-elif-batuman

It's a nuanced, strangely complicated issue that the OP is rightfully attacked for because he thinks this is a simple situation that he can swat away with the petulant little infantile ideas that he has formulated from within his culturally homogeneous south Texas bubble.

 

[zinfamous]

Agreed. We should be far more willing to call out shit religion and religious cultures. For some reason, some here don't like to see others call out other cultures when stuff happens closer.

we already made those arguments early on in the thread. Why do you only now agree after having already called out others for doing exactly that?

 

[cytg111]

I think its great that common folk, that is non politicians, gets to mingle across borders religions and political issues. If wearing a scarf brings that to the table, then for eff's sake wear a scarf and get on with it . It is a big middle finger to the powers that be that you can try to divide us but at the end of the day we're all just people.

 

[disappoint]

I also visited a Jewish temple and my Jewish friend explained to me that I should wear it out of respect. I had no problems with doing that even though I'm a non-believer. I don't have a problem with being respectful.

Help me understand. Did he think you couldn't have been respectful without dressing like them? Do you?

 

[agent00f]

Spot on. We all know that if women don't adhere to those formal clothing rules they too are publicly lashed and or imprisoned. They are very much the same. It's not like women can wear a swimsuit like men...oh wait. Well still the same punishment.

I'd love to hear what wisdom your professor of spelling might care to share.

 

[Texashiker]

Trump wanted to fire women who weren't pretty enough, say employees at his California golf club

I support right to hire and fire laws.

An employer does not have to have a reason to fire someone.

 

[realibrad]

I'd love to hear what wisdom your professor of spelling might care to share.

Ohhhh damn! I showed how your analogy was wrong so you change the usage of the word and thus the original point of the analogy. It's like you use meanings that suit your needs.

 

[realibrad]

we already made those arguments early on in the thread. Why do you only now agree after having already called out others for doing exactly that?

Because someone posted something that furthered the topic and I wanted to respond to it. I'm an atheist so I am not sure what you mean when you say "now agree".