**World Exclusive** Abit AT7 Review *UPDATE* Another review up

[McCarthy]

Didn't realize support for PS/2 ports would be such a panty twister for NFS4, but it was fun to watch!


AA0 - Yeah, I'm stubborn. I'm typing this on an IBM model M 'clickity clacker' with a PS/2 connector. Ditch PS/2 and I'm stuck using some inferior keyboard (meaning anything but these IBM) or having to spend more like $50 to track down a new version with USB hookup. Newest IBM keyboard I used felt like crap, looked the same, but the feel sucked.

Am I particular about this? Well, yeah. Since every keystroke I make goes through this human/computer interface I'm damned particular about it. I finally gave in and bought a new Logitech trackball in anticipation of PS/2 dying off when I saw the Trackman Marble disappearing from shelves, bought two, hopefully they'll last until USB gets ditched and we get moved along to whatever's next.


I'm sorry if I'm not joyful enough as your bandwagon passes by. Frames per second in games are nice, but 2D quality suffered with many of the gamer cards, even now I'm not sure how the 2D on GF3's compare to Matrox. It's that mentality though, the "that don't matter because it ain't cool to talk about" thinking. To me reliable computers are important. Durable and functional input devices are as well, even if they don't glow in the dark. And dull old ports like PS/2 I like. I've seen plenty of posts over the years from people saying their USB stops working, or gets laggy or doesn't work when they come out of hibernation and so on. Never seen one about PS/2.

Guess my definition of "better" is different than many of yours.

What's all this nonsense about designing a board to accomodate shortcomings in Windows XP? It sounds some of you are supporting the idea that computer hardware should fill in the gaps when the OS has flaws. Keep the floppy controller to make it easier to install XP on a raid drive. Move to USB devices because they work better in XP than PS/2 (though I'm not sure what you mean, PS/2 works fine there).

And these great gains of moving these two devices to USB...hot swapping. Oh yeah, that's something I know I do all the time, swap keyboards almost constantly. Mice too! Ok, for some gaming I can see maybe having a different mouse, but hey, plug that into your USB port when you want it and leave the PS/2 one connected, no problem there.

The refresh rate for mice is a debate I've peeked in on a few times and it seems people don't agree. I've seen more people saying PS/2 is smoother than the other way around though.

Chipsets. Ok, got me there. Not that it's a major cost, but there's no arguement that each feature does take a certain amount of time and circuits in the chipset.

Board layout...heh, the irony of mentioning board layout in reference to this board is wonderful. I take you to mean having all those USB plugs on the back, guess that's fine, though for people who don't have 6 USB and 2 firewire devices aren't those plugs just clutter the same as PS/2 is to you? Yes, they are.

3 PCI slots...who in the world needs more than that when it's got C-media audio built in! Heh. This is specific to this board of course, not legacy free concepts in general, but once I throw in my SCSI controller, my TV card and my modem (yes, an actual modem, some people still use them, the world of computing extends beyond the internet believe it or not) I'd be full up. No dual monitor since there's no room for a PCI video card. No chance to change the audio. No second NIC for using this machine to share net access. And so on. At least I _HOPE_ this 3 PCI isn't going to be a trend in future boards anyway.

Ok, I'm off, your turn to yell at me for being a stubborn old fart again.

--Mc

 

[AA0]

you have to get with the times, this is a new motherboard, which means you don't put your pentium 2 crap inside it.
Dual vid card? ya, they have those on one card now, and they are cheap. TV card? wait... those are on one card too....

whats a modem?

ps2 screws up just as much as usb, don't be so one sided. You can't think of one real reason that ps2 is better.

The hardware isn't making up for window's shortcoming, its just windows has finally caught up and is able to handle the hardware. Win95 and 98 usb sucked, win ME was a joke. WinNT is the worst OS I've ever used, but win2k if fine.

board layout means more than just the back ports, and experienced system builder knows what to look for. This is one of the best boards for layouts I've seen. 3PCI is good, I've been wishing for it for the past year. The space between PCI and the AGP is nice too.

My usb keyboard is amazing... I didn't think it would last this long, I've kicked it off the desk at least a dozen times this week alone. While IBM keyboards may last... they are far from good keyboards.

I hot swap all the time, whether I'm changing devices, or untangling cables.

 

[McCarthy]

Are you being serious? I am.

You can't use your cable modem to dial up to local systems, including the machine out at the airport. And I keep mine as a backup for when broadband goes down, which happened a lot with my cable, hasn't with my DSL though. That's been nice.

But more importantly, why should I have to defend why I might want to use more than 3 PCI devices. "Get with the times" you say, ok, I had 3 PCI slots on my 486 board, trend was towards more, times have reversed?

I've never had PS/2 screw up on me. Nor have I heard of it happening -UNLESS- someone tried to hotswap and blew up their controller. I can't help it that I haven't heard of PS/2 problems like I have heard of them (and experienced) with USB.

And again with the Windows thing. Because Microsoft finally got USB figured out now we should all switch to suit them? You know, we could all run out and buy Microsoft keyboards and mice. Yeah, there ya go. Maybe they'll screw up USB and we can all get Microsoft Firewire keyboards and mice later. Wouldn't that be swell? Not that you can type any faster because the bus your keyboard is on has a higher throughput.

Board layout....what's great this layout exactly? The CPU orientation? Those nice tall caps to work around? The RAID IDE cables all at stuck down where they'll be in the way? The floppy connector even more so? The RAM being crowded by AGP cards? And what's so great about that space between the AGP and PCI slots, if you want that much space on any other board you just don't use those PCI slots, simple enough. You'd make a great real estate agent, "don't look at it as a gaping hole in the wall, look at it as a breezeway".

Anyway there's room for PS/2 on this layout they have so it's not like you'd have to give up USB or Firewire to have it there. Blank spot in the backplane right next to the Firewire.

I'm not sure you're the person to ask, what with how you treat your keyboard, but why are IBM keyboards not good? It's comfortable for me, I don't have any joint problems from using the old design. They do last, that's a good thing in my opinion, but then as you like to get rid of things fast that's probably bad. And best of all, no Windows key. *shock* I'm behind the times there too, don't like to have a software company pushing a special key for THEIR OS on MY hardware. Besides, it gets in the way.

If you're going to support the "it's two years old, you're lame if you still use it" mentality about things then you must have a lot more money to piss away than most people. Yeah, I can go buy a new video card with dual heads and a tuner on it because Abit doesn't think I need more PCI slots. But why should I have to? I can also avoid buying this motherboard, which is a given. Problem is if this becomes the trend.

Curious, if you're such a supporter of integrated sound and having space free why do you have a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz when you could have had this Cmedia 8738 sound? Or maybe you do and have it disabled? In which case, if logic follows you'd do the same with the Abit and only have 2 PCI slots....but that's ok, you'll have lots of USB ports.

Yeah, I like progress. Real progress, not hype and not gimmicks. And yeah, I'm real REAL tired of replacing perfectly good hardware because there's no driver support for a year old device. Yet another reason to have to replace things that don't need replacing bothers me.

Personally? I'd rather have none of it onboard. No parallel. No serial. No USB. No Firewire. No audio. No 10/100 ethernet. Work on the chipset to give me 10 PCI slots and quit building the stuff into the motherboards where it'll all just go in the trash in a couple years. Talk about potential cost savings of that vs removing the PS/2 ports....

--Mc

 

[Eug]

Legacy is good, but I think USB alone is premature. From what little I've seen it seems that USB mice and keyboards are potentially buggy, with certain programs having problems with some systems. I'd rather see the floppy adapter gone - bootable cd-rom and zip are where it's at. I'm glad to see the Firewire. It's interesting that there is USB 2.0 and USB 1.1, since USB 2.0 is supposed to be downcompatible. It'd be nice to see 6 USB 2 ports instead, although I'm sure that'd increase the incompatibilities even more. And you'd have to make sure they were isolated from each other since USB 1.1 devices on a USB 2 setup supposedly can slow down the other devices on the same chain.

Serial should go. Those with older palms can get different boards. Parallel? Well that's a different story since LOTS of printers out there are parallel only, although I currently own nothing at home that absolutely requires parallel. (My NT box at work though uses a parallel flash reader and a parallel printer though.)

This board is a good start but there are some niggling issues with it as others have mentioned. And my friends have had so many reliability problem with Abit that I'll stay clear for now.

 

[AA0]

I use turtle beach because onboard Cmedia uses too many resources still, they aren't making them complete solutions, just cheap.
If you want to use your IBM ps2 ancient keyboard go ahead and use it on your 486, but don't get a Hammer when they come out and complain about saving a buck.

 

[anthrax]

I would say the AT7 isn't a very good board......It cost 179ish (new egg) and I would say that ...
There are much better alternative out there such as the A7V333 which has USB 2.0 , Firewire, RAID, Sound, legacy ports....and 5 PCI ports...
3 is simply not nuf....
Whats more the socket on the AT 7 is surrounded by hi capcitors...so you might have problems if you try to use very large heatsink......
As for USB....well, I use USB for both Keyboard and Mouse.....there is a chance you could run into problems with aUSB mouse...even in Windows XP if the drivers for the USB root hub some how deciede not to installl properly...(unlikely but does happen).........
As for the reivew..what a joke.....I say that guy is biased with the 98/100 ....

 

[Maleficus]

*drool*

I want one!!!!!!!

 

[JackBurton]

I think Abit made a good move getting rid of the crappy ass parallel port and serial ports. I wouldn't have gone as far as getting rid of the PS/2 ports but I can deal with that, no points taken off for that. However, I DON'T like integrated audio, no matter how good (or bad) it is. I say, take the audio out and give me an extra PCI slot. Also, that intergrated NIC better have support for PXE and BOOTP for booting from a network. Believe me, in the future, you'll DEFINITELY want to boot off your NIC from time to time. Other than that, I like what steps Abit has taken to get rid of that old useless technology.

 

[dakata24]

:Q

if you can get that in red or black pcb, im in... man o man.. that's one hellova board...

 

[Insane3D]

It seems in all this arguing you guys are forgetting something. Everyone has different needs for how they use their systems and what they use in it. For someone who is always upgrading and getting the latest stuff and doesn't have many older components, this board is perfect for them. If you are someone that still needs the legacy ports and/or needs to use older components, or you need more than 3 PCI slots, then this board is not for you.

This is why we have choices in motherboards. Take the KT333 chipset for example. If you are a "no frills", extreme overclocker type who pushes your hardware to the edge, the Epox 8K3A boards are probably a good choice. If you are looking more for a feature packed board that may not have be the "fastest", the MSI or Gigabyte variants might be better choices. Personally, I am a constant upgrader, and most of my stuff is USB so this board would be kinda neat....for me. I still would like to see at least one more PCI slot, but it's not a big issue.

The point is just because this board may be great for most of us "enthusiasts", it doesn't mean that it will be the best thing since sliced bread for everybody. Also, I don't really see this becoming a "standard" anytime real soon since the vast majority of users out there still need that stuff on their boards. Sure, down the line this may become a more common design, but right now this is really just a niche board. Relax everyone...it's just a mobo for god's sake.

 

[Insane3D]

Also, there is a way around the OS install without a floppy drive, albeit not too common anymore....a LS-120 drive. You've got your floppy but you use an IDE port...no floppy connector needed.

 

[Chubbz]

if it fits your needs, its a great mobo

 

[McCarthy]

Insane3D, well said. My problem with this board isn't it itself, but what trends it might forshadow. I don't like the board, but I have lots of choices now so the board itself isn't a concern.

There were two things I was talking about at once: things specific to this board and future trends. Somewhat mixed a few together when I shouldn't have. I highly doubt 3 PCI will be the way of the future and shouldn't have commented on it as if it were a possible trend.

And admittedly, mostly AAO's attitude rather stuck a thumb in my eye.

The loss of the serial and parallel ports leaves minimal problem because it's easy enough to grab a PCI card with them on there. While not a great solution for this particular board with limited slots, a viable alternative on others which will allow people to continue using their older devices for many many more years. My obvious distress about PS/2 comes from never having seen such an expansion board with those ports.

The trends this board probably do forshadow are the increase in USB ports, removal of serial and parallel and integration of Firewire. I'm hoping PS/2 shows up on the next board I get, though the loss of serial and parallel are of no concern to me personally. I do have a bit of concern about integration of Firewire on future boards, but I expressed that before and since have less. USB being integrated got it accepted fast, but not refined at the same speed. SCSI's never been integrated to any percentage on the PC side, but has evolved free of the restrictions of other integrated (cheap is best) devices. Since I'd like to see Firewire do well in both - acceptance and refinement, I'm a bit worried about it being integrated. How USB 2.0 catches on may tell the future of Firewire's evolution.

--Mc

 

[mikable]

wow, so much resistance to change! That's all it is, nothing more. Why get rid of the old comforable still working things you put so much effort into learning, and configuring? Heck I remember all the agruements when cars went from carborators, to fuel injectors. My mother still uses Pulse dialing for criminy sakes! Now here we are changing from isa/serial/parrallel/ps2 and what not, to usb, and look at the resistance! (they can have my old IBM selectric when they pry it from cold dead hands) Kinda funny to watch, but also sad. Here on this Hardware Enthusiasts board, people OCing the heck out of the systems moding the cases, Altering mobos, and in general pushing the envelope, SCARED to run a board without a ps2 connection!

I welcome the change!

 

[kgraeme]

The funny thing about this discussion is that it's a flashback to my Mac side. Apple completely ditched legacy ports in favor of usb/firewire roughly four years ago. People gnashed teeth and pulled their hair out saying that it would kill the Mac. It didn't. If anything, it made usb the viable bus technology that it is today. Compare that at the same time, MS was releasing Windows 98 with Gates demoing a bsod when he plugged in a usb scanner.

This "legacy-free" board isn't really that big of a change. Just wait until 3GIO and SerialATA. All the PCI cards and ide drives we have now will go the way of dot matrix printers and isa cards.

Edit: and for the few people that still need a serial or parallel connection, there ARE adapter cards.

 

[NFS4]

<< wow, so much resistance to change! That's all it is, nothing more. Why get rid of the old comforable still working things you put so much effort into learning, and configuring? Heck I remember all the agruements when cars went from carborators, to fuel injectors. My mother still uses Pulse dialing for criminy sakes! Now here we are changing from isa/serial/parrallel/ps2 and what not, to usb, and look at the resistance! (they can have my old IBM selectric when they pry it from cold dead hands) Kinda funny to watch, but also sad. Here on this Hardware Enthusiasts board, people OCing the heck out of the systems moding the cases, Altering mobos, and in general pushing the envelope, SCARED to run a board without a ps2 connection!

I welcome the change! >>


ROTFF!!!! AHAHAHA, good one man


<< The funny thing about this discussion is that it's a flashback to my Mac side. Apple completely ditched legacy ports in favor of usb/firewire roughly four years ago. People gnashed teeth and pulled their hair out saying that it would kill the Mac. It didn't. If anything, it made usb the viable bus technology that it is today. Compare that at the same time, MS was releasing Windows 98 with Gates demoing a bsod when he plugged in a usb scanner >>


True dat. People are so against change!!!! Get over it (and yourselves)!!!

 

[Mem]

I`ve to agree it depends on what hardware you`ve and want to keep ,anyway there are plenty of choices for the buyer at the moment.I don`t use any serial or PS/2 ports infact I`m all USB at the moment,so the AT7 board would be ok for me if I was buying one.You have to give credit to Abit for pushing the way forward and getting rid of the old excess baggage .




<< True dat. People are so against change!!!! Get over it (and yourselves)!!! >>



I for one don`t mind change just not keen on Abit but somebody has to lead the way.

I don`t know why some people are afraid of change ,we all upgrade all the time and new features are always added,it`s only a question of time before old technology is phased out.

 

[AGodspeed]

Personally, I want this board to start a trend. No more legacy is fine by me, Firewire and USB are the way to go for the future IMHO.

Whether people know it or not, legacy will be going the way of the dinosaur sooner than you think...

 

[Mucman]

<< Personally? I'd rather have none of it onboard. No parallel. No serial. No USB. No Firewire. No audio. No 10/100 ethernet. Work on the chipset to give me 10 PCI slots and quit building the stuff into the motherboards where it'll all just go in the trash in a couple years. Talk about potential cost savings of that vs removing the PS/2 ports.... >>



OMG, me too! I am a big fan of anything modular... Don't throw in so much stuff that will be unused. I love my no frills rock stable Tyan Trinity 400 with 6 PCI slots!

I find this Abit board neat in a gimicky sort of way, but I would not buy it though.

 

[Nate420]

<< You'd make a great real estate agent, "don't look at it as a gaping hole in the wall, look at it as a breezeway". >>



LMAO

 

[SonicTron]

WTF

Now I can't use my legacy PS/2 keyboard that has none of those useless windows keys and crappy "Internet" buttons :|

do they sell USB keyboards that don't have windows keys?

 

[NFS4]

http://www.viahardware.com/at7max_1.shtm

 

[Demonicon]

Congrats to Abit for doing this. Although I think it should have been sans 40-pin, they can always go minus floppy on their next board.

I think the statement would have been stronger had they not included the floppy connector. However, this is still a major step in the right direction IMO.