World may not be warming, say scientists

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jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
1
0
Ocean energy drives the weather and the climate. This is where the important data comes from.

As for surface measurements, high altitude and polar regions are unaffected by urban anomalies, and they support warming as well.

Use of fossil fuels provide no demonstrable benefit to the environment, but many actual and potential negative outcomes. Current research is simply trying to figure out how much the piper's bill will be in the future. Future generations will undoubtedly have "to pay the piper" someday.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Maybe its time to say even if a slightly growing number of scientists are questioning the idea of the existence of man made global warming, THEY ARE NOT CONCLUDING THAT MAN MADE GLOBAL WARMING DOES NOT EXIST. It simply means they await more evidence.

But to some extent we can expect this only temporary doubt, for the past number of years, we have been experiencing a very low point in the number of sunspots. And since the number of sunspots correlates in a highly positive manner with net solar output, a large increase in sunspots in the near future may answer the debate to the total dismay of those in the denier camp.

But for now, with the low sunspot count, the earth is now seemingly cooling.

BUT FOR HOW LONG?

They aren't waiting for more evidence, they are waiting for us to forget that they made up the old evidence. THEN they will make new evidence.

That snarkiness aside, Brainonska has some good points about the problems with fossil fuels and the benefits of moving away from them. CO2 is one of the most weak greenhouse gases but stress some marine and aquatic life in higher concentrations. We should all be for increased research to make solar, wind, and nuclear power safer and more cost effective. If we had reasonably priced, durable solar cells today, an average home's roof would supply all its energy needs during most daylight periods, taking a big load off of the grid and energy production.
 

jman19

Lifer
Nov 3, 2000
11,222
654
126
seems you believe in it, which is funny.

So thinking this:

You and the other deniers will be brought up on blashphemy charges during these years of inquisition.

is a bit dramatic, means I believe in global warming? Either you can't read or you fail at logic... not sure which is worse.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,685
6,195
126
This part of the article was ecpecially interesting:

"Kevin Trenberth, a lead author of the chapter of the IPCC report that deals with the observed temperature changes, said he accepted there were problems with the global thermometer record but these had been accounted for in the final report.

“It’s not just temperature rises that tell us the world is warming,” he said. “We also have physical changes like the fact that sea levels have risen around five inches since 1972, the Arctic icecap has declined by 40% and snow cover in the northern hemisphere has declined.”

The European Centre for Medium-Range Weather Forecasts has recently issued a new set of global temperature readings covering the past 30 years, with thermometer readings augmented by satellite data.

Dr Vicky Pope, head of climate change advice at the Met Office, said: “This new set of data confirms the trend towards rising global temperatures and suggest that, if anything, the world is warming even more quickly than we had thought.”"
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,571
7,634
136
Dr Vicky Pope, head of climate change advice at the Met Office, said: “This new set of data confirms the trend towards rising global temperatures and suggest that, if anything, the world is warming even more quickly than we had thought.”"

There can be no denying that there has been no warming the past 15 years, and yet you're doubling down on the lie. Fascinating stance, think we won't call your bluff?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,685
6,195
126
There can be no denying that there has been no warming the past 15 years, and yet you're doubling down on the lie. Fascinating stance, think we won't call your bluff?

Excuse me? When you say there can be no denying that the earth has not warmed in the past 15 years, and do so without documentation, I can only assume you are the fool won is a believer. I simply quoted a part of the article that claims global warming is real that was posted to say it is not. I have no idea myself what the real facts are. I thought it was rather stupendously stupid to put forward a case where your citation denies your claim.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Maybe its time to say even if a slightly growing number of scientists are questioning the idea of the existence of man made global warming, THEY ARE NOT CONCLUDING THAT MAN MADE GLOBAL WARMING DOES NOT EXIST. It simply means they await more evidence.

But to some extent we can expect this only temporary doubt, for the past number of years, we have been experiencing a very low point in the number of sunspots. And since the number of sunspots correlates in a highly positive manner with net solar output, a large increase in sunspots in the near future may answer the debate to the total dismay of those in the denier camp.

But for now, with the low sunspot count, the earth is now seemingly cooling.

BUT FOR HOW LONG?

Considering the earth spends more time in ice ages than it does warm spots, the real question is how long is it going to stay warm here.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
55,999
14,517
146
Excuse me? When you say there can be no denying that the earth has not warmed in the past 15 years, and do so without documentation, I can only assume you are the fool won is a believer. I simply quoted a part of the article that claims global warming is real that was posted to say it is not. I have no idea myself what the real facts are. I thought it was rather stupendously stupid to put forward a case where your citation denies your claim.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8511670.stm

Or read my post about him.

TWO bombshells in the same day completely destroying the MMGW scam. And yet, Moonie, you cling to it like a bible...
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,571
7,634
136
Excuse me? When you say there can be no denying that the earth has not warmed in the past 15 years, and do so without documentation, I can only assume you are the fool won is a believer.

The OP cites that very thing.

I simply quoted a part of the article that claims global warming is real that was posted to say it is not. I have no idea myself what the real facts are. I thought it was rather stupendously stupid to put forward a case where your citation denies your claim.
The PDO is a very solid scientific reason why there has been no warming for the "past 15 years". To double down on a claim that it has not only warmed, but MORE QUICKLY is really absurd.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,164
0
0
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8511670.stm

Or read my post about him.

TWO bombshells in the same day completely destroying the MMGW scam. And yet, Moonie, you cling to it like a bible...

Uh oh, there is a scientist out there who was is skeptical of MMGW? Wow. Oh wait, there has always been a minority opinion in the scientific community that was skeptical of MMGW. John Christy, the example you gave, has been a skeptic for years. Bombshell my ass.

- wolf
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
3
0
A little knowledge is a terrible thing. What you folks who happen to not be well versed in climate change are missing is that the evidence they are talking about here isn't the totality of climate change evidence... not even close. Ice cores show climate change very clearly, and there's no suburban development in Antarctica.

You can even go out in the ocean with a ruler, measure sea level, and do some simple physics calculations.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
A little knowledge is a terrible thing. What you folks who happen to not be well versed in climate change are missing is that the evidence they are talking about here isn't the totality of climate change evidence... not even close. Ice cores show climate change very clearly, and there's no suburban development in Antarctica.

Actually even that is questionable. The stations where the physical weathers stations exist in the artic are in fact habitated by people and these weather stations have grown significantly over the last several decades.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
3
0
Actually even that is questionable. The stations where the physical weathers stations exist in the artic are in fact habitated by people and these weather stations have grown significantly over the last several decades.

Even if the stations WERE enough to influence local climate within the radius that testing is done in, it wouldn't matter. The chemistry locked into the ice depends on global temperature average, not local.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Even if the stations WERE enough to influence local climate within the radius that testing is done in, it wouldn't matter. The chemistry locked into the ice depends on global temperature average, not local.

ANd those ice cores that are taken out show many warming periods, but mostly a much colder(ice age) place. The cores prove little.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
3
0
ANd those ice cores that are taken out show many warming periods, but mostly a much colder(ice age) place. The cores prove little.

Not true. They prove that:
a) The current rate of warming is extremely unusual
b) The warming we have experienced since the start of the industrial revolution coincides with our greenhouse gas emissions. If the physical properties of greenhouse gases were not responsible, it would only be because God said "I will make it so CO2 no longer retains energy, but I will STILL cause the expected change to happen, just to mess with these humans".
 
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Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
572
126
You know, even if the climate isn't being warmed by our actions, there are other good things about changing our relationship with the environment. We do affect the environment we live in. Pollution can cause all sorts of problems, like acid rain, smog, tainted water, etc...

Moving away from oil also has other benefits, as we can say FU to the ME. Diversification of our transportation fuels also has the benefit of not being stuck if one source should suddenly dry up (either because of economic pissing contests or difficulty in procuring more).

And cleaner energies, like solar, wind, tidal, and nuclear, give the benefit of not creating so much air and water pollution - why shit on the places we live?

But I'm sure we'll all ignore the practical and go back to driving our Canyoneros and doing whatever the hell we want, because we can do whatever the hell we want, because we pay for our resources and there are no externalities that aren't immediately apparent to our behavior. Yeehah!

Edit:
To clarify, I'm not saying we should bankrupt ourselves in the process, but we should look at what we're doing and invest in new technologies.

Absolutely agree. I'm very conscientious about my littering and polluting. I don't think anyone on the right is in favor of trashing the earth in the name of freedom. I was a boy scout. Any time I see trash on the ground I pick it up.

I think one cause of all the nastiness on this forum stems from caricatures that each side has of the other. In this case, I don't understand the origination of the caricature of right-leaners being selfish pricks who take every opportunity to crap on the earth and the environment.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,606
166
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
Not true. They prove that:
a) The current rate of warming is extremely unusual
b) The warming we have experienced since the start of the industrial revolution coincides with our greenhouse gas emissions. If the physical properties of greenhouse gases were not responsible, it would only because God said "I will make it so CO2 no longer retains energy, but instead cause the expected change to happen, just to mess with these humans".

Oddly, that seems to be the prevailing belief in this forum. That CO2 is a greenhouse gas is an indisputable truth. That there's more of it because of human activity is an indisputable truth as well. That the oceans level is rising - again indisputable. What made the oceans rise? Magic? I can't believe people can't figure things out from just that one little fact alone. Instead, rather than think, they just pick a group of loud mouths on one side or the other to listen to.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Not true. They prove that:
a) The current rate of warming is extremely unusual
b) The warming we have experienced since the start of the industrial revolution coincides with our greenhouse gas emissions. If the physical properties of greenhouse gases were not responsible, it would only be because God said "I will make it so CO2 no longer retains energy, but I will STILL cause the expected change to happen, just to mess with these humans".

oh really?

 
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