World may not be warming, say scientists

[cybrsage]

Our restriction on CFC's is probably the best example of where we can effect the environment, and how we can do something about it with little end cost. YES our Air Conditioners are less efficient now and our Aqua Net is not quite as forcefully propelled, but I do not see Armageddon resulting from it....

Such things are great examples as they are things we can do which do not measurably affect the economy. Cap and trade tax? Stupid idea. Invest in wind, solar, batteries, etc? Great idea.

 

[werepossum]

I can show you quite a few peer reviewed papers if you agree to use the IPCC's definition of peer review.


As for your attempt to say I was talking out both sides of my mouth, I suspect you are smarter than that but are pretending to be stupid to try and make a point. I know you are smarter that what you showed in your post, but I will explain it anyway.

We do not understand enough about what is going on to say that man is the cause of the current warming. Those who say man is the cause of the current warming are lying, since we do not understand enough about how things work to actually make this claim. We should continue to study things and actually learn how the climate really works so that we can actually say man is doing the warming.

In the absense of actually understanding these things, the only honest thing to do is to say the natural cycle is still at work. It will take quite a few more years before we truely can say how things interact and can be honest.

Well said. But as Ninjahedge pointed out, we do know for an absolute fact that there are ongoing and immediate bad effects to excess CO2. So it behooves us to do what we can to reduce that pollution without too badly hurting our economy.

I absolutely reject Al Gore's claim on me giving up my automobile while he commutes by limousine and private jet because he's important and entitled. I also rejected the left's claim on my automobile when I was causing a new Ice Age. But I accept that government causing me pain to force me to use less petroleum is an acceptable solution, as long as government is also actively looking for cleaner alternative sources of cheap energy. I don't like government causing me pain; it is NOT my preferred method of government coercion. I'd much prefer government to push other forms of energy that are cleaner and also better (i.e. cheaper), but you often don't have a good choice and a bad choice, often you have only several bad choices. The only other caveat I'd place is that at the moment such pain should be caused with a very careful hand so as not to throw us back into recession.

 

[Ninjahedge]

No matter how fast a sprinter you are, chances are you are not finishing the Marathon.

If we want to go the whole 9 yards, we need to balance our efforts and not wait till the last minute and hope for a hail-Mary.

 

[cybrsage]

Yeah, right now is a bad time to inflict economic pain upon the people.

 

[shira]

Agreed. If we take small, incrimental, non-economy impacting steps, I have no problem with it. Pollution is bad, lets get rid of it.

We simply should not sacrifice our economy for something so unsettled and not fully understood.

MMCC is "so unsettled" only in the minds of those who reject science and desperately want to continue the enrichment of the fossil-fuel industry. For a revealing analog from the past, take a look at tobacco-company-funded "research," and that industry's pronouncements, on the health effects of cigarette smoking. Oh, but it's impossible the big oil could have any possible interest in discrediting MMCC. It's the pro-MMCC camp that's swimming is cash, not the oil industry.

Your phrasing "not fully understood" is just more obfuscation. NOTHING in science is "fully understood." Somehow, we don't let our lack of a "full understanding" of (say) the etiology of cancer prevent us from pursuing preventive strategies. But of course we must pretend that mankind is blocked from acting to mitigate the effects of MMCC until we "fully understand" climate.

Tell you what, let's block enactment of all Republican budgets until we "fully understand" economics. We can't possibly risk our "fragile economy" on unproven and "unsettled" right-wing economic theories.

 

[cybrsage]

No matter how fast a sprinter you are, chances are you are not finishing the Marathon.

If we want to go the whole 9 yards, we need to balance our efforts and not wait till the last minute and hope for a hail-Mary.

What if the last minute was 5 years ago? What if the last minute is 1000 years from now? We have no idea when the last minute is, but causing the still very fragile economy to tank without actually understanding how the system works is a bad idea.

10 to 15 years is insignificant to the temperature changes, but is massive to the science of understanding it. Right now, it is prudent to wait and only institute very small, gradual changes. Education is the key, start there. I don't litter because of the impact of that crying Indian guy when I was growing up.

 

[cybrsage]

MMCC is "so unsettled" only in the minds of those...

Blah blah blah...I am right, you are wrong so shut up and do as I demand. Blah blah blah.

I bet you still use cow products while complaining that the planet is warming up...

 

[shira]

MMCC is "so unsettled" only in the minds of those...

Blah blah blah...I am right, you are wrong so shut up and do as I demand. Blah blah blah.

I bet you still use cow products while complaining that the planet is warming up...

Cow products? Already asked and slam-dunk answered.

My quote-crapped post here? Already reported to the mods.

 

[werepossum]

Cow products? Already asked and slam-dunk answered.

My quote-crapped post here? Already reported to the mods.

LOL You could at least TRY to put on your big girl panties before running to mod mommy to make the bad man go away, you know.

 

[shira]

LOL You could at least TRY to put on your big girl panties before running to mod mommy to make the bad man go away, you know.

There's only one way to deal with trolling: report it to the mods. Mods are the only ones who can stop it.

Edit: All of us who feel strongly about things go over the line from time to time. I know that I do. Most of us have no problem with occasional transgressions. But people who consistently show a disregard for serious intellectual discourse are a detriment to this forum.

 

[Ninjahedge]

Shira, the key here is not to use reporting as a weapon. Report him, but keep it civil. If he develops a record of this, they will warn him. If they feel it is within the bounds of acceptability, they will do nothing, or leave a general message on the thread.

"Play nice" or the equivalent.

WP, "play nice" man! Right or not, prefacing your statement with "LOL" and "big girl panties" does not make for an intelligent discourse. (BTW, WTH is up with the panty analogy? It is kind of close to slamming women being "emotional" which just ain't kosher nowadays man......)

 

[cybrsage]

Cow products? Already asked and slam-dunk answered.

Nein, you did not. You said something like "I love my cow products, so even though they are bad for the environment, they are not as bad as other things, so I am not going to stop doing something bad for the environment. I demand you stop doing bad things, though."

Not very compelling.

 

[cybrsage]

Shira, the key here is not to use reporting as a weapon. Report him, but keep it civil. If he develops a record of this, they will warn him. If they feel it is within the bounds of acceptability, they will do nothing, or leave a general message on the thread.

He thinks me not quoting everything, but instead using the accepted ... to show there is more means I am misquoting him. He gets mad easy when he does not get his way.

 

[cave_dweller]

More like 3 hundredths of one percent.

And what cybrsage said.

Thats your opinion but is no proof. Did you make that number up?

An estimated 1300 billion becquerels of tritium was released to the environment as radioactive water vapour from this one spill. That’s enough tritium in principle to ruin 186 million litres of drinking water, making it unfit for human consumption.

Standard for tritium in drinking water is based on how many extra cancers develop if people drink tritium-contaminated water for 70 years. By applying the same logic that is used for other cancer-causing substances, ODWAC reasoned that the standard for an acceptable level of tritium in drinking water should not allow more than one additional cancer per million persons exposed. Many of the non-lethal cancer effects of tritium are not currently considered in the model upon which the current [7,000 becquerels per litre] standard is based.

Climate change is a natural thing just like evolution.

CO2 makes up 0.037% of the atmosphere. No one ever mention that in their Global warming logics

 

[Paul98]

Climate change is a natural thing just like evolution.

Climate changes naturally everyone knows this. In order to see man's impact on global climate you need to look at what we are doing to the environment and where we can impact global climate. Then look at analysis and see if it's a significant impact, and how much an impact we have. The climate will continue to change naturally, but man will also have an impact. In order to figure out how much you need to study it.

CO2 makes up 0.037% of the atmosphere. No one ever mention that in their Global warming logics

Considering it's always talked about as PPM, I am guessing you didn't know what that meant?

Those two lines showed how ignorant you are about the science. I suggest you do some actual research on the science, not what these people write in their blogs.

 

[shira]

Nein, you did not. You said something like "I love my cow products, so even though they are bad for the environment, they are not as bad as other things, so I am not going to stop doing something bad for the environment. I demand you stop doing bad things, though."

Not very compelling.

No, YOU said something like:

Even though what Shira actually showed was that cows can be raised in a way the cuts methane emissions much lower than current methods - meaning that humans can continue eating beef while at the same time reducing greenhouse gasses - I'm going to continue to insist that the only way reduce methane emissions from cows is for humans to completely stop eating beef.​

Pretty lame, even by the standards of your usual posts.

 

[shira]

Shira, the key here is not to use reporting as a weapon. Report him, but keep it civil. If he develops a record of this, they will warn him. If they feel it is within the bounds of acceptability, they will do nothing, or leave a general message on the thread.

"Play nice" or the equivalent.

WP, "play nice" man! Right or not, prefacing your statement with "LOL" and "big girl panties" does not make for an intelligent discourse. (BTW, WTH is up with the panty analogy? It is kind of close to slamming women being "emotional" which just ain't kosher nowadays man......)

Oh, my reports to the mods are very civil. And speaking entirely for myself - I do not presume to speak for the mods - I'm certain that sooner or later he will be banned.

 

[shira]

He thinks me not quoting everything, but instead using the accepted ... to show there is more means I am misquoting him. He gets mad easy when he does not get his way.

What I actual KNOW is that you use "..." as a way of hiding what the quoted post actually says so that it won't be obvious to casual readers that what you're actually doing is avoiding making a response to the substance of the hidden post. Because your arguments are lame on the merits.

 

[ericlp]

Every state in the nation experienced a record warm daily temperature during March. According to preliminary data, there were 15,272 warm temperature records broken (7,755 daytime records, 7,517 nighttime records). Hundreds of locations across the country broke their all-time March records. There were 21 instances of the nighttime temperatures being as warm, or warmer, than the existing record daytime temperature for a given date.

Now we are seeing forest fires...Drought... Prediction of Stronger Hurricanes due to High Ocean Temps... Already food prices for fresh produce are sky rocketing!!!

Just wait till Summer Hits! You fools haven't seen anything yet.

Nope, the weather isn't changing. Just keep reading your bibles and pray harder dammit! This one is gonna be a bumpy ride for the mid/east coast this year.

 

[SkullWalker]

Every state in the nation experienced a record warm daily temperature during March. According to preliminary data, there were 15,272 warm temperature records broken (7,755 daytime records, 7,517 nighttime records). Hundreds of locations across the country broke their all-time March records. There were 21 instances of the nighttime temperatures being as warm, or warmer, than the existing record daytime temperature for a given date.

Now we are seeing forest fires...Drought... Prediction of Stronger Hurricanes due to High Ocean Temps... Already food prices for fresh produce are sky rocketing!!!

And why is this happening? Because we keep destroying the one and only "air conditioning" our mother Earth has - the plants.

Plants and trees also function as a natural water reservoir, so the water doesn't immediately leave the soil and they also absorb the sun rays so they do not heat up the soil. If we do not stop the rapid deforestation, we can end up living on a Earth that really closely resembles our planet as it can be seen in every post-apocalyptic movie - dry, dusty and lifeless.

So we should not only concentrate on investing money into researching "new technologies" that will MAYBE be able to help our environment in the future, we should also build more parks in cities, design greenhouses in skyscrapers, try to renew forests and green spaces and basically help Earth cool itself.

 

[Ninjahedge]

Sun particles?

 

[SkullWalker]

Ugh, sorry. I meant sun rays - edited.

 

[Blackjack200]

Every state in the nation experienced a record warm daily temperature during March. According to preliminary data, there were 15,272 warm temperature records broken (7,755 daytime records, 7,517 nighttime records). Hundreds of locations across the country broke their all-time March records. There were 21 instances of the nighttime temperatures being as warm, or warmer, than the existing record daytime temperature for a given date.

Now we are seeing forest fires...Drought... Prediction of Stronger Hurricanes due to High Ocean Temps... Already food prices for fresh produce are sky rocketing!!!

Just wait till Summer Hits! You fools haven't seen anything yet.

Nope, the weather isn't changing. Just keep reading your bibles and pray harder dammit! This one is gonna be a bumpy ride for the mid/east coast this year.

Don't worry, I'm sure we can intercept (steal) a few private emails between scientists, take them out of context, publish them on the internet, and that will mean that global warming is not occuring and nothing should be done.

 

[Ninjahedge]

Ugh, sorry. I meant sun rays - edited.

Skull, the proper grammar/context would have been "sun's light" or even "energy from the sun".

The leaves themselves do not act as as much of a coolant as you would think, there is a bit more than just photosynthesis and reflected light going on here though.

So while I agree with your general statement, it is usually good to get the facts a bit straiter before expressing them or you end up being ridiculed and your message lost....

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Don't worry, I'm sure we can intercept (steal) a few private emails between scientists, take them out of context, publish them on the internet, and that will mean that global warming is not occuring and nothing should be done.

Horrible strawman "logic"...I can only hope that you're joking or being obtusely sarcastic.