Worst Anandtech review evar

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,027
11,606
136
What were they thinking? An Athlon 64 3500+ vs a 3.6 ghz Nocona? Were they trying to save face for Intel after that damning Doom III article?

Where's the Opteron 150 vs 3.6 ghz Nocona review? Or hell, use an FX-53 or something, jeez.
 

Kell

Member
Mar 25, 2001
138
0
0
That about sums up my thoughts: "WTF?" Comparing Intel's hen's-teeth best to a 3500+? What about an FX-53 or 3800+?

You can't reasonably blame it on testing constraints either--AnandTech ought to have plenty of top-of-the-line Opteron/Athlon64 kit in-house. It's not like they haven't reviewed said equipment several times now?
 

oupei

Senior member
Jun 16, 2003
285
0
0
"Although the Athlon 64 3500+ and the Xeon 3.6GHz EM64T processors were not necessarily designed to compete against each other, we found that comparing the two CPUs was more appropriate than anticipated, particularly in the light of Intel's newest move to bring EM64T to the Pentium 4 line."

huh? why is comparing the two CPUs appropriate now?
 

Shimmishim

Elite Member
Feb 19, 2001
7,504
0
76
seriously, how much did intel pay kris to do that crap job?

also he says 3500+'s cost less than $500... they cost $350 at newegg

wow, what a horrid review...

its worse enough trying to compare intel to amd (apples vs. oranges) but man..

it's like trying to compare an apple to a piece of meat...

server chip vs desktop chip?

what in the world!?
 

Avalon

Diamond Member
Jul 16, 2001
7,567
156
106
They actually said the 3500+ was $500 less than the Xeon, not $500 , which would put it at around $350.I haven't been too happy with Anand's reviews lately. As a matter of fact, I wasn't very impressed with the Doom 3 buyer's guide either, although many others seem to like to argue with me vehemently on that subject. Honestly, they took no notice of anyone wishing to play the game UNDER 1280x1024 on high detail, and I was also dissapointed that they didn't include an overclocker's guide to squeezing out a highly performing gaming rig that would run Doom 3 nicely. I hope people don't start thinking the minimum specs for Doom 3 are now a geforce 6800 :roll:
 

Vee

Senior member
Jun 18, 2004
689
0
0
AMD crowd reacting?

I think such a test is interesting, despite the 200% difference in price and 100% difference in L2 cache.

But I'm quite doubtful about some of the benchmarks. While the OS was 64-bit, were all the benchmarks 64bit? Look at the makes for John the Ripper. I've been out of touch with that kind of software crafting for years, so I read badly and don't understand gcc.

There's no doubt the K8 is a more powerful scalar math cpu than Northwood and Prescott. It has always been, and it still shows off in POV-ray, despite that I would expect POV-ray to have become optimized for vectors over recent years.

Intel usually does poorly on unoptimized encryption, while K8 does well. This makes 'John the Ripper' results surprising. There has to be something buried here. (Xeon and Athlon ran different binaries here!) Intel have maybe made spectacular progress in branchprediction on the Prescott? Or the benchmark fits in the 1MB cache, but not in the 512KB?

The Prescotts results look very much like packed SSE2. It's the only thing Intel is competitive on, and Intels benchmarking results, in general depends upon how well the benchmark can use SSE2 and how well it is optimized for it.
That always also raises the question of how the code is running on AMD, in its case?
The benchmarks were different for the Xeon and the Athlon. Why? The Athlon supports SSE2, so it should have been able to run the same binary? Or? And finally again, was this a 32-bit benchmark?

Did they simply mix up the results!?
 

LoganTeamX

Junior Member
Jan 15, 2004
6
0
0
It's sad, really... and not what I expected at all from Anandtech. I smell an Intel hissy fit over Doom 3, so I put as much stock in this review as people would put in Saddam investing their retirement funds.

Sad, very sad indeed.
 

Cpntrips

Senior member
Jan 6, 2000
217
0
0
Apparently even Anandtech is not free from INTEL's iron grip. How tough would it have been to test against a similiarly priced Opteron? Awful review. Cant't wait for the Opteron 150 vs Prescott 2.8 review to follow.

http://anandtech.com/linux/showdoc.aspx?i=2114&p=6

Why isnt the 64-bit score for MySQL used here. The 3500+ scores a 215 in 64-bit vs 289 for 32-bit from his own review.
 

clarkey01

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2004
3,419
1
0
Intel are sucking @ the moment, why didnt they just throw in a duron against Nocona ?

Hell I bet the 1.6 Duron would actaully give it a run for its money.


we know the truth, joking aside.I dont want to sound like Fox Mulder, but Conspiracry or not we all know the truth.
 

clarkey01

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2004
3,419
1
0
sorry, i thought i typed or rather clicked on anandtech.com on my faves, but i got a toms hardware review.

Whats next? a 256 Itanium 2 cluster against a sempron ?

" Blows it out the water"
 

Dman877

Platinum Member
Jan 15, 2004
2,707
0
0
And I wonder how my GF2 MX compares to a 6800 Ultra too, price difference is almost the same...
 

glugglug

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2002
5,340
1
81
Something is not right. The numbers in this review simply don't jive with everything else that is known about the 2 systems.
 

lxie123

Senior member
Oct 16, 2003
211
0
0
"Although the Athlon 64 3500+ and the Xeon 3.6GHz EM64T processors were not necessarily designed to compete against each other, we found that comparing the two CPUs was more appropriate than anticipated, particularly in the light of Intel's newest move to bring EM64T to the Pentium 4 line."

He's using the Xeon Nocona 3.6 because they don't have the P4 3.6 with EMT64 right now.
In this review, the author is trying to compare 64 bit desktop performance and subsituted a nocona for p4 3.6 with emt64 due to lack of availability. I don't think his intent was to do workstation/server review and then subsituted athlon 64 3500+ for the opteron 150/ 250 like everyone is accusing him of.
 

imported_fifi

Junior Member
Aug 9, 2004
3
0
0
Originally posted by: lxie123
"Although the Athlon 64 3500+ and the Xeon 3.6GHz EM64T processors were not necessarily designed to compete against each other, we found that comparing the two CPUs was more appropriate than anticipated, particularly in the light of Intel's newest move to bring EM64T to the Pentium 4 line."

He's using the Xeon Nocona 3.6 because they don't have the P4 3.6 with EMT64 right now.
In this review, the author is trying to compare 64 bit desktop performance and subsituted a nocona for p4 3.6 with emt64 due to lack of availability. I don't think his intent was to do workstation/server review and then subsituted athlon 64 3500+ for the opteron 150/ 250 like everyone is accusing him of.

I think some of the complaints about about the methodology used in the review. For example, he imported the results for A64 3500+ from a previous review, but in at least one place he used the 32-bit result instead of the 64-bit result (see MySQL-Test select). And he is not very clear on exactly which benchmarks are 32-bit apps and which are 64-bit apps. Also lack of direct comparison between 32-bit and 64-bit performance makes this review somewhat meaningless. Use of unfamiliar benchmarks without more explanation is also causing a bit of issue.

The lack of details and thoroughness makes it look more like a rushed job just to be the first to get out of the door, but seriously bungled up in places.

And I guess the comment that really agitated some readers is "Without a doubt, the 3.6GHz Xeon trounces over the Athlon 64 in math-intensive benchmarks." Since he made this comment knowing that he only tested a mid-range A64 (with somewhat dubious methods) when there are several more A64s higher up (FX51, 3700+, 3800+, FX53).

If the point of the article was to test the EM64T extension, then it would have been much more relevant and interesting to compare to the 32-bit performance as well.
 

lxie123

Senior member
Oct 16, 2003
211
0
0
Originally posted by: fifi
I think some of the complaints about about the methodology used in the review. For example, he imported the results for A64 3500+ from a previous review, but in at least one place he used the 32-bit result instead of the 64-bit result (see MySQL-Test select). And he is not very clear on exactly which benchmarks are 32-bit apps and which are 64-bit apps. Also lack of direct comparison between 32-bit and 64-bit performance makes this review somewhat meaningless. Use of unfamiliar benchmarks without more explanation is also causing a bit of issue.

I agree with the comments about in on the inconsistencies with the benchmarks, but his reasons behind comparing these 2 processors is not as ridiculous/outrageous as some people here make it seem.

Originally posted by: fifi
And I guess the comment that really agitated some readers is "Without a doubt, the 3.6GHz Xeon trounces over the Athlon 64 in math-intensive benchmarks." Since he made this comment knowing that he only tested a mid-range A64 (with somewhat dubious methods) when there are several more A64s higher up (FX51, 3700+, 3800+, FX53).

If the nocona 3.6 was meant to be a subsitute/represent the P4 3.6f until they can get their hands on one, then a a64 3500+ or 3600+ is the correct cpu to use in the comparison.
 

ToyYoda

Senior member
Jan 10, 2004
493
0
76
What about real world apps? Why not use those also

"..No memory-bound benchmarks (where the Athlon is supposed to have an edge) are presented, though."

worst....review....ever
 

imported_fifi

Junior Member
Aug 9, 2004
3
0
0
Originally posted by: lxie123
Originally posted by: fifi
I think some of the complaints about about the methodology used in the review. For example, he imported the results for A64 3500+ from a previous review, but in at least one place he used the 32-bit result instead of the 64-bit result (see MySQL-Test select). And he is not very clear on exactly which benchmarks are 32-bit apps and which are 64-bit apps. Also lack of direct comparison between 32-bit and 64-bit performance makes this review somewhat meaningless. Use of unfamiliar benchmarks without more explanation is also causing a bit of issue.

well considering that the wrong numbers used meant that, instead of showing A64 trouncing Xeon 3.6, it shows Xeon 3.6 beating A64. The conclusions would have to be re-drawn.

As for comparing the two CPUs, well, neither P4F 3.6 nor Xeon 3.6 are out on the market so why bother doing such a rushed job? Is a job QUICKLY done better than a job WELL DONE?

I agree some people are jumping at shadows here, but surely they know what their readers reactions are going to be? so (let me jump at my own shadows) this AT's way to get more visits? because the article is already being mentioned on slashdot's front page, I am sure AT is going to get a lot more clicks than usual.

it just seems that there's not much point at all to this article, except as a flame bait, which it is indeed working extremely well. A couple misplaced numbers, a few not mentioned details, voila, instead flame war.

I would have preferred reading a more comprehensive test, even just against a 3500+, since the PR numbers really SHOULD mean SOMETHING. Heck, even testing against a 2 GHz K8 would have been okay, as long as it was done properly. But instead of getting an appetite for more, I just have this bad taste in my mouth.

Nah, they truly screwed this one up. I mean, AT articles used to be the ones you quote when you want to settle arguments. But now, you read an AT article, you have to think "did they f*ck up this one as well?"
All I can say is they should fix up the errors and address the inadequacies. And THAT should be done quickly.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
29,559
24,421
146
He's using the Xeon Nocona 3.6 because they don't have the P4 3.6 with EMT64 right now.
In this review, the author is trying to compare 64 bit desktop performance and subsituted a nocona for p4 3.6 with emt64 due to lack of availability. I don't think his intent was to do workstation/server review and then subsituted athlon 64 3500+ for the opteron 150/ 250 like everyone is accusing him of.
The logic in this is still lost on me though Why pick the 3500+ for any reason??? It simply isn't the right CPU to match up even if attempting to look at AMD vs Intel in 64bit desktop performance. If attempting to compare what would be Intel's best 64bit desktop CPU against AMD, then use AMD's best Desktop 64bit CPU, and it most certainly is not the 3500+.

Most the outrage here is over KK stacking the deck against AMD then proclaiming the ringer the winner. It's possible the dedicated integer multiplier on the Nocona would still allow it to best any of the AMD line-up where it evidently shined in the tests, but I doubt it would be by the margin shown. "Unfair" sums it up in a word.

In KK's defense though, he did promise to add dual Opteron to the mix soon, so perhaps Nocona vs Opteron will be just another installment in creating a database of benchies, and new installments will follow until a full gamut of 64bit AMD and Intel microprocessors are covered?
 
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