Worthy upgrade from 2600k yet?

[alyarb]

It's refreshing to read a post like this. Last time I came to this forum it was to read a thread about haswell overclockers bitching about the low overclocks generated by the various auto tune or "ai overclock" features out there.

 

[Z15CAM]

you can be "totally stable" at load, but you perceive instability in idle.

Yes that is true but I find that if you gradually increase the offset voltage by increments of +0.005 you most likely will find a stable idle without the load voltage increasing by much. I think this has a lot to do with the thermal compositi8ons of each CPU as they are not all the same when pushing limits.

 

[tweakboy]

If you have a 2600k , OC it and stay put.

You can go to 4.2GB @ 1.31 or 1.30 voltage.. gl

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Yes that is true but I find that if you gradually increase the offset voltage by increments of +0.005 you most likely will find a stable idle without the load voltage increasing by much. I think this has a lot to do with the thermal compositi8ons of each CPU as they are not all the same when pushing limits.

On this motherboard and likely other Z68's, maybe Z77's and ) Z87's, there is an offset voltage setting and a "turbo" voltage setting. You can divvy up the amount to reach the stable target speed between the two.

But upping the offset also means all transient spikes are higher by that amount (if I remember from that old white paper). Anyway, my offsets are in 0.005V increments and the turbo setting is in 0.004V increments, so you can diddle with both to achieve increases or decreases of 1 or 2 millivolts.

The other part of this equation and the main factor for any worry about transients is the LLC setting. Apparently, higher LLC settings seem to counteract any addition in offset under idle conditions, so it's all about a balance or tradeoff.

So, beyond the white paper's cautions, there is a wisdom which says "vDroop is good." I want to keep my LLC settings for 4.6 and 4.7, and in both cases it leaves me with about 30 mV of vDroop. But I have to move the offset up slightly to get the idle volts that might eliminate my periodic little "glitch." Even so, I'm hoping that the PLL Voltage adjustment will also resolve it. If it "goes away" with these new settings, I'll drop the offset back to previous levels and test again.

Probably will take me a month of waiting, but I think this will do it.

 

[Z15CAM]

Again the Chip Lottery exists where not one chip is the same however SB Bridge does tend to scale well. For instance; if you get a stable OC at say 4.8G with a +0.035v offset yielding 1.384 idle/1.424 load on one chip the other chip may need a +0.045v offset yielding 1.392 idle/1.432 load - keeping in mind SB instability usually happens at idle. Either one of them examples I would consider a good chip. The i7 2700k tends to run higher clocks with less voltage then the i7 2600k but not by much.

Using 4.8G OC as I've exampled if your i7 2600k requires a + 0.050v offset to yield 1.400 idle and 1.440 load to be stable that's a good chip. It doesn't mean you have to run it at that 24/7 but you can relax running it 24/7 with say a + 0.035 offset yielding something like 1.384 idle/1.424 load with a 46G OC.

As long as you have the cooling to keep the chip say under 1.456v and 75C while under stress running Prime95 large FFT for 2 hrs and if you require a + 0.055v off set and up with 1.400v idle/1.440v under load to get your desired OC - I personally don't believe it will hurt a SB Chip because lots of OC'g enthusiasts are doing it and have had no issues after some 3 years with the chip. If it last me 3 years running 24/7 at 4.8G's - I would be happy - but I don't always need that power and mostly run it at 1600/4600Mhz between 1.0v / 1.334v with a - 0.005 off set.

One of the best tests I've found for testing stability at idle is watching video on the CNN News site with Firefox. If your system BSOD's, add another .005v until the system stabilizes to watch the news - LOL

 

[BonzaiDuck]

. . . . but I don't always need that power and mostly run it at 1600/4600Mhz between 1.0v / 1.334v with a - 0.005 off set.

That confirms somewhat my suspicion that these chips were a fairly uniform production. I'd seen the statistics: "50% @ 4.x, 25% @4.y . . " and so on. I had mine set at +0.005; bumped it up to 0.010. Buth -- yeah -- "1.334V" seems to be a prevailing load voltage for 4.6.

One of the best tests I've found for testing stability at idle is watching video on the CNN News site with Firefox. If your system BSOD's, add another .005v until the system stabilizes to watch the news - LOL

This sucker has fed cable, broadcast, Netflix and other MC-accessible sources to my AVR and HDTV 24/7 for days -- weeks! -- at a time. Last time I had the unannounced reset, it was 10 days stable. It has gone 1 month between these resets, but the statistics are more like 7 to 11 days. So "patience" is the order of the day. It seems so borderline and occasional, but I need to clear it up. Just a matter of waiting to "see" -- I suppose . . .

The idle-EIST phenomenon seems common for SB-K overclockers. The evidence seems to point toward those voltage settings we discussed. My case is way more borderline than what I'd seen at OC forums, though. For those folks, system resets a few times a day, once a day, etc.

 

[cytg111]

I wouldn't touch a thing until at least Haswell-E. 2011 platform is just too old and missing several features. And Haswell on 1150 isn't enough of an upgrade IMO.

8 Core haswell or bust.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

8 Core haswell or bust.

The skinny coming from the tech-review sites is that Intel won't offer 4-core variants as they did with the IB-E i7-4820K. But they should offer either 8-core or 6-core models.

I was almost prepared to build an IB-E 4930K system, until it slowly dawned on my impaired brain that the X79 socket was introduced for SB-E and is considerably dated for innovations and options.

 

[Z15CAM]

For readers: We were discussing that SB Static Over Clocking has issues with BSOD's at idle, specifically watching online video and there really seems to be no specific fix even if you increase the off set voltage. Perhaps some of you have found a cure.

There appears to be no issues of BSOD'g at idle with SB if you ENABLE "Enhanced Intel SpeedStep Technology" in BIOS. This will idle the CPU down to 1600Mhz's with no load and automatically increase voltage and timing to whatever off set and multiplier ratio you have set when under load.

This is the way my i7 2700K scales with EIST ENABLED :

4600 Mhz:
With a 46 Multiplier and - 0.005v offset the system Idles at 1600Mhz @ 0.992v/34C, at 4.6G under heavy application load like x264 encoding voltage ramps to 1.336v/47C then at 4.6G under Prime95 large FFT Stress Test voltage ramps to 1.376v/68C. NICE.

4800 Mhz:
With a 48 Multiplier and + 0.035v offset the system Idles at 1600Mhz @ 1.032v/35C, at 4.8G under heavy application load like x264 encoding voltage ramps to 1.384v/67C then at 4.8G under Prime95 large FFT Stress Test voltage ramps to 1.424v/72C. This is my Sweet Spot Spot ;o)

5000 Mhz:
With a 50 Multiplier and + 0.115v offset the system Idles at 1600Mhz @ 1.112v/35C, at 5.0G under heavy application load like x264 encoding voltage ramps to 1.472v/70C then at 5.0G under Prime95 large FFT Stress Test voltage ramps to 1.520/79C. Voltage somewhat High but not dangerous in my opinion as many OC'g Enthusiasts, after 3 years, have had no issues pushing SB to 1.5v.

For BonziaDuck - I think you're making it too complicated - Try this:

<< IMPORTANT that BIOS MAIN Page System Performance is set at NORMAL >>

Ai Tweaker TAB

Ai Overclock Tuner AUTO

Turbo ratio by all cores

By all Cores (Can adjust in OSD) 46 (48*) (48G Static is 48 - NFG)
(50G Static is 50 - Seems OK but Voltage too High)
WARNING: Keep Intel Enhanced SpeedStep - ENABLED

Internal PLL OverVoltage AUTO

Memory Frequency DDR3 1866* - 1.34 v )

EPU Power Saving Mode Disabled

Sub Menu

OC Tuner Leave alone

Dram Timing Control 9-9-9-24-1* (Samsung MV-3V4G3D-US) rest is Auto )

CPU Power Management

CPU Ratio 46 (48*)

This will automatically Enter the Ratio into
Advanced TAB\CPU Configuration\CPU Ratio

Turbo Mode Enabled

Turbo Mode Parameters All Auto

------------
DIGI-VRM

Load Line Calibration Ultra High

VRM Frequency Manual
VRM Fixed Frequency 350

Phase Control Manual Adjust

Manual Adjustment Fast

Duty Control Extreme

CPU Current Capability 130% * (120% is often OK but RED 140% maybe)
__________________

NOTE: CPU Voltage is 1.162v while in BIOS

For 1600 to 4600 MHz's:

Offsetmode Sign NEGATIVE
Offset Voltage 0.005* (If NFG use 0.000 or a +0.005)

(48G Offsetmode Sign is + : Offset voltage 0.055)*

(50G Offsetmode Sign is + : Offset voltage 0.115) - BIG STEP takes the CPU into the Danger Zone but I've had no issues with it running it on demand after 2 years with a SB 2700k processor. In all all accounts of OC'g the SB keep the processor below 80C under STRESS LOAD. Water cooling is the only answer.

ALL Rest is Set to AUTO

Advanced TAB

> CPU Configuration

CPU Ratio 46 (48*)

Intel Adaptive Thermal Monitor Enabled

Hyperthreading Enabled

Active Processor Cores All

Limit CPUID Maximum Disabled

Execute Disable Bit Enabled

Enhanced Intel SpeedStep Technology Enabled (KEEP ENABLED or OS BSOD's at Idle)

Turbo Mode Enabled

CPU C1E Auto

CPU C3 Report Auto

CPU C6 Report Auto

Intel Virtualization Technology Disabled

And download CPU Park Control (C6) v1.5.0.4 [64] and Disable CPU Parking. That is controll the c6 state through GUI.
Should I add to DISABLE all BIOS Peripherals that you are not using.


"*" denotes my 1600/4800 Mhz BIOS Configuration

----------------------------------------------------

i7 2700k/ASUS P8Z68-V Pro Gen3/Corsair H110 AIO running @ 1.032v/1600Mhz to 1.384v at 4800Mhz 24/7 between 32 to 67C, 16GB of Samsung MV-3V4G3D-US DDR3 at 1.34v/1866Mhz 9-9-9-24 1T with 4GB's assigned to a RAMDisk drive to handle Win7 64 slough to negate writes to the SSD, Samsung 840 Pro 256, 2 x's WD5001AALS HDD's in Raid-0, 1 x's WD1002FAEX 1TB, ASUS DRW-24B1ST DVDRW, Hauppauge WinTV HVR-1250 PCIe, 2nd Intel NIC for Dual Networking, XFX 850W Pro Black Black Edition, XSPC RAZOR GA-R9 290X at 1250/1500, Koolance 401x2 RP with 280x60x140 Rad, Nactua 140 Fans, Fractal Design ARC Midi R2, QX2510 Samsung PLS 2560x1440 display at 60/120Hz.

TOTAL Investment on this Platform including 13% HST Tax Plus Shipping is approx $3,200 spent over a period of a year.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

For readers: We were discussing that SB Static Over Clocking has issues with BSOD's at idle, specifically watching online video and there really seems to be no specific fix even if you increase the off set voltage. Perhaps some of you have found a cure.

Not quite. I didn't notice that "static overclocking" was the topic, and I never began my over-clock calibrations in this way: EIST, C1E and other C states were fully implemented.

The "BSODs" and resets at idle EIST are noted in a rash of forum posts including "just plain Windows." that is, "Event ID 41" is the only event viewer trace of some sort of idle instability, but it had occurred for many mainstreamers using OEMs and laptops with the power-saving enabled.

The frequency of the problem cited for these as well as some "SB-K overclockers" was much more troublesome than my case: it would occur one or more times daily, or every couple days at the least. For me, it happens between 10 days or longer -- sometimes a month. I won't trouble to print my spreadsheet log from Event Viewer with days-between-dates. Just assume that I've tracked it as a statistical series.

Possible troubleshooting priorities:

C1E and other C states enabled [but in my case, didn't fix anything by changing to "disabled."

Hardware failure -- RAM, VGA, PSU, etc. At one time, since I noticed my UPS beeped a switchover to battery some few times and a less than a day before my own reset events, I thought the UPS might be suspect, but all these items get a clean bill of health.

After you rule those things out:

OS corruption or buggy drivers -- particularly VGA, IRST, etc.

But, carefully ruling out those factors, eventually one runs across discussions with SB-K overclockers experiencing the difficulty at idle EIST. The sources of instability are cited as LLC in combination with vOffset, with mention of PLL voltage (not the "overvoltage" addressing the VRM control loop) and seemingly "safe" VCCIO settings even below 1.2V. But the observations about LLC and vOffset are the same things for which the 2007 December Anandtech article on the QX9650 cautioned with helpful graphic aids:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2404/5

. . . and the page that follows.

For SB-K, the caution is the same but less general: "Be careful venturing into "(-) negative offset territory."

None of these basic relationships would have changed much over the span from SB-K through IB- and Haswell-K, nor would the potential for idle crashes -- either with fixed-vcore OC'ing or under the power-saving features. Perhaps some refinements that attenuate the problem were added with IB or Haswell, but I wouldn't know firsthand. I'd have to see the BIOS options for a Z77 or Z87 motherboard to be sure.

Nor were the discussions I found indicative of anything other than "Offset" overclocking with EIST enabled.

I've used some of the features your settings show -- for instance, "Current capability 140%," although I limited mine to 120%, because I intuitively sensed upping the current would accelerate the same chip degradation over shorter time than would just occur naturally -- it happens whether you OC or not. I've found that for 4.6 and 4.7, it's unnecessary. As for LLC "Ultra High" setting, at higher clocks (and per the old cited white-paper) you then are likely to exceed VID at high clocks -- which is "not good."

Some early wisdom suggested using these features for better stability at load conditions, bench or more extreme overclocks. "PLL Overvoltage[Enabled]" was also given as a panacea above 4.5Ghz, but I've since discovered it isn't necessary. While it isn't a voltage per se but merely an adjustment of the control loop for voltage signal, it still has an impact on VRM components, or so I would think -- since setting it to "auto" or "disabled" seems to reduce my temperatures a bit -- beyond simply the perfunctory reduction of PLL voltage itself.


I'd never had a problem with "awake from sleep" with PLL_O____ Enabled, yet many people do. Even so, for this computer, I don't let it sleep as a practice as I do for the other household machines.

But the problem described in various discussion occurs with greater frequency. If a laptop user saw his system reset once every couple weeks of 24/7 usage, he might think it were heat or cosmic rays, but it wouldn't seem initially "serious." A laptop user isn't going to leave his machine running sleep-disabled 24/7/365 with a constant cable-TV feed, or two monitors. In my case, it seems to be extremely borderline and less frequent, but it has a cause.

Speaking of heat and cosmic rays, someone also noted that the occasional nature of my instability may be a result of over-stressing VRM components -- for instance, with settings I already mentioned. At this point, I can only cite small but noticeable temperature improvements at the same clocks and voltages.

I rather doubt that when some here refer to "24/7" it means they leave their computer "sleep-disabled" continuously, running 24/7 video feeds while gaming and other activities simultaneously. Maybe some do. But in my case, I'm running a mult-monitor setup (HDTV and desk monitor) with different resolutions -- again provoking situations raising discussion on various forums with "Event 41" log traces. This then leads to the VGA hardware and driver issues -- already mentioned and excluded -- if not excluded, then "fixed."

Like I said in another lengthy post, this little glitch requires me to watch for it over a month's time. If it doesn't occur -- well, then, it will be "fixed."

But it's not likely a result of my basic over-clocking choices -- not too different from your own, except for trading off "offset" choices against "extra voltage for Turbo." I still don't understand why folks don't avail themselves of this latter voltage feature, because it is "on demand" while offset is effective across the voltage range -- idle or load -- barring the unforeseen idle effects of high LLC settings.

The problem I have is infrequent and totally undetectable during IBT and LinX stress tests. I might even guess that with your own clock settings paired with my usage and peripherals, you might run into it, or you wouldn't without duplicating those conditions. I could run LinX for two days, and it wouldn't arise. But I'd be aging my CPU faster than I'd want to.

The original topic here was "Reason to upgrade from i7-2600K." As far as I can see, it's still "future-proof" for the moment. But if you overclock, you will do troubleshooting. Troubleshooting takes time. And if you want to reap the advantages, you either choose to ignore a minor problem -- or do everything you can to fix it.

If time is money and both are scarce, OC'ing would seem to take more time than it's worth -- if pursuing "last grains of rice." But the choice to do it separates "Enthusiast" and "hobbyist" from the "Mainstreamer" and "Dabbler."

 

[Z15CAM]

Thanks BonziaDuck for you interest and response - I UpDated my suggested BIOS OC'g guide to reflect your experience.

Here's a good TEST providing you can load and boot your SB OC. Open FF/U-Tube and play a video then run Prime95 large FFT at the same time with your Video Card OC'd to Max (Another story).

PS: I'm not much of a Gamer but I do play BF4 and War Birds from time to time - Looking into Star Citizen - Mostly into Video Encoding. Thinking about Crypto Mining but don't think it's worth it with just one R9 290X.

So, basically running this BIOS Profile; other then selecting a multiplier, everything works around the Offset Voltage when the BIOS is configured specifically for a SBK processor.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Thanks BonanziaDuck for you interest and response - I UpDated my suggested BIOS OC'g recommendations to reflect your experience.

PS: I'm not much of a Gamer but I do play BF4 and War Birds form time to time - Looking into Star Citizen - Mostly into Video Encoding. Thinking about Crypto Mining but don't think it's worth it with just one R9 290X.

Well, I was thinking I might update my graphics card this year -- possibly with two. Two would be more than I need, but SLI is nice. I can't be sure I'll get NVidia 760's or 770's. Or maybe just a single 780 card. I need to look into the performance differences. But -- really -- when it comes to top-end performance needs and demands, mine are less probably than yours, or my wants are less.

I just became obsessed with over-clocking, and as I was remarking to someone here (maybe you? I'm old and forget), there should be a 12-Step Program forum for addicted overclockers.

Maybe you got your high clocks not only stable, but "tuned." The voltages are a LOTTA HEAT! I might even try for 4.8, but my rule is this: "Get the 'occasional reset' problem fixed before going further." Certainly, I didn't do this when I pushed up to 4.7 in mid-January, but I thought I had it licked at that time. So I just tuned the setting and saved it. If my core-average maxes out at 72C @4.7, I can see 4.8 as worth finding if the average doesn't move over 80C. But for the voltage, I think you're right (or someone was) for saying "not for 24/7."

Somebody else with a 2500K posted that they got to 4.5 "stable" with vCORE 1.39V. I can't tell if this was the fixed (idle) OC monitor reading, or the more significant load value. But these last couple days I'd been refining a profile for 4.5 and 1.272V. I suspect it could have a lower optimum, but the GFLOPS spread around 125 has a standard error of only 0.33 GFLOPS. With voltages that are excessive, I thought I observed that more of the variation occurs at higher GFLOPS and drops back for several runs closer to the average. Insufficient voltage -- the variation occurs more at the lower end, and either way, there is greater statistical variance.

All the stress runs I've made seem to bear this out, and that's the only basis for the assertion here. But I would hope that this enables me to make shorter stress runs and find the optimum voltage more quickly.

It seems to . . . . But that's load conditions. I'm not really out of the water yet, and I'll just have to see if these occasional resets stop occurring over the next month. How else would I know?

 

[Z15CAM]

(maybe you? I'm old and forget), there should be a 12-Step Program forum for addicted overclockers.

Me too - But I can't help spilling my guts and I've seen no reason to upgrade from a SBK Predecessor other then your MB does not support USB3 and your all intent to fill the PCie-3 VGA Bandwidth.

Can you believe I've been running Prime95 large FFT in the back ground as we speak with a SBK clocked at 4800 Mhz's for the last 6 hours, using CPU Current Capability 130% with a 1600/4800Mhz BIOS Profile CPU Temp is 76C with a Corsair H110 - Very Stable - Voltage at idle 1.032 to 1.424v under stress. ;o)

I have confidence that either an i7 2600k or 2700k will putt along at 1600/4800 Mhz at say 1.036v Idle to 1.450v under Extreme Stress Prime large FFT Under Water - Doesn't mean I can't profile a 5.2GB BIOS with my 2700K using a 1.5v Load - Gotta Love the i7 Intel SBK Processor and you don't have to de-lid it ;o)

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Me too - But I can't help spilling my guts and I've seen no reason to upgrade from a SBK Predecessor other then your MB does not support USB3 and your all intent to fill the PCie-3 VGA Bandwidth.

Can you believe I've been running Prime95 large FFT in the back ground as we speak, for the last 6 hours, using CPU Current Capability 130% with a 1600/4800Mhz BIOS Profile CPU Temp is 76C with a Corsair H110 - Very Stable ;o)

I didn't know current capability had that increment; in mine, I thought I only saw 110, 120, 140. Maybe I'm wrong.

If you can do that with a Corsair H110, there's even a possibility I could do it with D14 air cooling. I just don't like voltages that go over 1.4V. Do you have HT enabled, and if so-- do you lock the affinity so there are only four threads? I'd been running PRIME95 with eight, and of course, the droop was lower than with LinX on the four physical cores. I took a look at the Prime95 documentation and discovered that you could specify the physical cores in a "Local.txt" file and the HT as either 1 (off ) or 2. When I ran it that way today, it was no different than when I usually ran it so that all eight threads were busy.

The trap of pursuing higher clocks that mean higher voltages: I'd think one would become more parsimonious with the voltage-- trying to control the heat. The setting might be stable, but one may not have the optimal voltage for completely ECC error-free, consistent GFLOPS stress-testing.

 

[Z15CAM]

At 4800 Mhz voltages only hit 1.440v and 76C running Prime95 large FFT Exreme Testing with a Corsair H110; other words, you verily reach 1.384v and 67C at 4800 mhz with Heavy Duty App processing like MeGUI Encoding X264 Video at 4800 Mhz.

You gotta question what's the % of time you TAX your processor beyond the recommended Limits Vs CPU Life Experience. The Intel SBK reigns as King for us common users and can hit 5.0+ GBits at 1.5v which is the likely termination point of a transistor.

I can run a constant 5200 Mhz with 1.5+v on this 2700k (Probably crashing at Idle) over spec'd and endangering the CPU Vs GUI Time; where as, a 1600/ 5.2 Mhz is feasible. Do you want SBK Spec POST where voltage will reach 1.65v - Personally I will not go over 1.5v under extreme stress with SB but many SB Enthusiasts, under water, do it.?

The SB i7 2600k along with the binned SB i7 2700k are now collector items for OCg Enthusiasts.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

At 4800 Mhz voltages only hit 1.440v and 76C running Prime95 large FFT Exreme Testing with a Corsair H110; other words, you verily reach 1.384v and 67C at 4800 mhz with Heavy Duty App processing like MeGUI Encoding X264 Video at 4800 Mhz.

You gotta question what's the % of time you TAX your processor beyond the recommended Limits Vs CPU Life Experience. The Intel SBK reigns as King for us common users and can hit 5.0+ GBits at 1.5v which is the likely termination point of a transistor.

I can run a constant 5200 Mhz with 1.5+v on this 2700k (Probably crashing at Idle) over spec'd and endangering the CPU Vs GUI Time; where as, a 1600/ 5.2 Mhz is feasible. Do you want SBK Spec POST where voltage will reach 1.65v - Personally I will not go over 1.5v under extreme stress with SB but many SB Enthusiasts, under water, do it.?

The SB i7 2600k along with the binned SB i7 2700k are now a collectors items for OCg Enthusiasts.

I agree. Best overclocker in a long time. Before that -- maybe Q6600, perhaps some Yorkfields . . . the E8600 C2D. Nehalem users are still happy, so those were also good.

But it's also notable to see that some Haswell cores clocked only to 4.4 match a 2600K @ 4.6. They attempt to improve performance, without major improvements in the clock speed, and I think this has been the trend all along. I'll admit that I want to build a new machine, but I insist that it is only for the "building," testing and OC'ing. For a good system, these SB-K processors are good to go.

Our stress-testing is an extreme absolute. There is the hope that if you beat the hell out of the processor for 50 IBT or LinX runs, nothing will make it fail. [Then along comes the occasional idle-EIST reset -- weeks after you thought everything was rock-solid!] And you'll never stress the processor like that with gaming or anything else. Still -- you "want to know."

And like I tried to point out, there are ways to reduce the stress-testing, and still come out of it "knowing" that nothing can clobber it.

 

[Z15CAM]

So much so, I almost feel sorry for IB Enthusiasts - Remember the AMD 1.8 Barton on the EPOX nForce2 or GA-N7400 MB and the Taulatin 1.3 Celron on a VIA Chipset with a Vidded Slot 1 converter card or the AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800 with a nVidia nForce 4 MB - I remember a Pentium 1 on the I Will MB. All great OC'rs and put to shame the Intel ABIT 440 - R.I.P.

In the long run a SBK on a GA-P8Z68 MB is a cheap OC'rs platform that nothing can beat for power in the last 3 years and it needs, at least, a Corsair H110.

The IB 4770K on a Z87 MB may come close with the Z68 2700K walking away - Short of NO2.

In other words, the 3 year old SB i7 2600k Z68 platform ='s the IB 4770K Z87 from an OC'rs point of view not considering the Z87 MB does offer more options - Specifically RAID with 6 Intel RSIT Channels.

Don't discard the i5 2500k Z68 under a Corsair H110 - It's still competitive.

In the long run I've spent too much on PC's but I can't live without one.

I trust the OP got a little more INFO then he/she bargained for ;o)

 

[OCGuy]

So much so, I almost feel sorry for IB Enthusiasts - Remember the AMD 1.8 Barton on the EPOX nForce2 or GA-N7400 MB and the Taulatin 1.3 Celron on a VIA Chipset with a Vidded Slot 1 converter card or the AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800 with a nVidia nForce 4 MB - I remember a Pentium 1 on the I Will MB. All great OC'rs and put to shame the Intel ABIT 440 - R.I.P.

In the long run a SBK on a GA-P8Z68 MB is a cheap OC'rs platform that nothing can beat for power in the last 3 years and it needs, at least, a Corsair H110.

The IB 4770K on a Z87 MB may come close with the Z68 2700K walking away - Short of NO2.

In other words, the 3 year old SB i7 2600k Z68 platform ='s the IB 4770K Z87 from an OC'rs point of view not considering the Z87 MB does offer more options - Specifically RAID with 6 Intel RSIT Channels.

Don't discard the i5 2500k Z68 under a Corsair H110 - It's still competitive.

In the long run I've spent too much on PC's but I can't live without one.

I trust the OP got a little more INFO then he/she bargained for ;o)

Explain how a Haswell @ 4.5ghz that is 10-15% faster than IB clock for clock, and even more so over 2700k, isn't better than a 4.8ghz SB?

The Core i7-4770K outperforms the i7-2700K by 7 - 26%, with an average performance advantage of 17%.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7003/the-haswell-review-intel-core-i74770k-i54560k-tested/6


Enough to upgrade from SB to Haswell? I wouldn't. I am more responding to the "nothing can beat" statement. Reviewers have moved on from SB for GPU reviews for a reason.

 

[Z15CAM]

Discussing MONEY over GAIN - Precisely my point. IB/Z68 is still competitive and no reason to upgrade dollar wise.

Really do you want a 5.2Ghz SB challenge and compare Bench Marks on LGA 1150 socket, catch me if you can, win or loose, I will succeed !

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Explain how a Haswell @ 4.5ghz that is 10-15% faster than IB clock for clock, and even more so over 2700k, isn't better than a 4.8ghz SB?



http://www.anandtech.com/show/7003/the-haswell-review-intel-core-i74770k-i54560k-tested/6


Enough to upgrade from SB to Haswell? I wouldn't. I am more responding to the "nothing can beat" statement. Reviewers have moved on from SB for GPU reviews for a reason.

Discussing MONEY over GAIN - Precisely my point. IB/Z68 is still competitive.

It's all a mix of need, want and perception. Need and Want are easier to sort out.

If a Mainstreamer just got the news from Geek Squad that their C2D or Q6600 OEM-box has a failing motherboard, their hard-drive is trashed -- or they were just disgusted at the kruft left on the carpet after the GS guy finished the maintenance, he/she may be inclined to do any number of things: get a laptop; buy a new desktop; figure it's about time to get a new computer even though desktop apps and a few games still run on the old system.

Then you're going to see folks like the one who came in here a couple months ago, decided he was going to build an IB-E 4960X system for as much as $10,000 because "he can." We (I) told him that fifteen fans would certainly provide cooling with diminishing marginal returns, and that the box would be a great conversation piece if you could hear the conversation. He got all offended and vowed never to come back to the forums. Call that an analog to what economists once called "The Solid Gold Cadillac" demand function.

Then you look at someone like me. I might look at the 20% gain reported in the Anandtech article, then realize that the comparisons were done on stock test-benches -- no mention of OC'ing. And someone here makes a call for Cinebench scores, so you make your initial run with 2600K @ 4.6 and find that you're neck-and-neck with i7-4770K @ 4.4 Ghz in the results. You then decide to raise your clock speed to 4.7 to see if you pull ahead, and -- it helps.

But I don't have the advantage of a revised instruction set and other features, and Cinebench is only one of several benchmarks.

Then the perception factor kicks in. Clocking a Q6600 from 2.4 to 3.4 was an accomplishment in 2007, and that's a whole Ghz-worth. Then, Intel releases its last Wolfdale @ 3.3 Ghz, you'd seen how the E8600 could clock to 4.2+, but it's still just a GHz increase in speed and a C2D at that. And you see this Sandy Bridge K chip (or Nehalem, for that matter) with potential still for 1 Ghz over a base speed that has slowly inched up.

You see how the thermals and voltages are very manageable. You may have fallen in love with your computer-building project of 2011. And you still have a Mainstreamer mindset in some regards: It may be a 3-year-old Corvette, but it still zooms.

I can wait for Haswell-E. I could get by without Haswell-E. But "time for a new computer project" is a different motivation than "I'm getting tired of seeing the hour-glass."

 

[Z15CAM]

It may be a 3-year-old Corvette, but it still zooms.

How about a 70Z with a 7000 rpm 625Hp 454 - I built one and still have it.

The SBK/Z68 has more PC power then the average user needs.

Discounting a server, after Intel's SB CPU, we are probably looking at the last Desk Tops and everything after this will be Mobil operating with mini-volts and SSD Drives and that's just whatever the future is.

I still love my 1150 socket Z68/i7 2700k and have no reason to Up Grade.

_____________________

i7 2700k/ASUS P8Z68-V Pro Gen3/Corsair H110 AIO running @ 1.032v/1600Mhz to 1.384v at 4800Mhz 24/7 between 32 to 67C, 16GB of Samsung MV-3V4G3D-US DDR3 at 1.34v/1866Mhz 9-9-9-24 1T with 4GB's assigned to a RAMDisk drive to handle Win7 64 slough to negate writes to the SSD, Samsung 840 Pro 256, 2 x's WD5001AALS HDD's in Raid-0, 1 x's WD1002FAEX 1TB, ASUS DRW-24B1ST DVDRW, Hauppauge WinTV HVR-1250 PCIe, 2nd Intel NIC for Dual Networking, XFX 850W Pro Black Black Edition, XSPC RAZOR GA-R9 290X at 1250/1500, Koolance 401x2 RP with 280x60x140 Rad, Nactua 140 Fans, Fractal Design ARC Midi R2, QX2510 Samsung PLS 2560x1440 display at 120Hz.

TOTAL Investment on this Platform including 13% HST Tax Plus Shipping is approx $3,200 spent over a period of a year.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

How about a 70Z with a 7000 rpm 625Hp 454 - I built one and still have it.

The SBK/Z68 has more PC power then the average user needs.

Discounting a server, after Intel's SB CPU, we are probably looking at the last Desk Tops and everything after this will be Mobil operating with mini-volts and SSD Drives and that's just whatever the future is.

Back in '84 when the 80286 chip was still waiting in the wings to replace the 8088, I remember an Econ professor who remarked that the micro-computer [what they were called then] phenomenon would lead to a faddist social stratum of people who wore CPU chips on headbands -- like hippies with peace symbols.

If grandpa was bewildered then, I'm bewildered now with the mass of relative latecomers to "micro-computing" whom I see in grocery stores tallying their purchases against budget on smart-phones and tablets.

I should really try . . . to break away . . . . from my desk . . . here . . .

 

[Z15CAM]

Back in '84 when the 80286 chip was still waiting in the wings to replace the 8088

I ran a integrated MB with a Cyrix 386 DX40 with Dos 6/Win3 at one time, On Line Net with Dial Up BBS and loaded Win95B on her and discovered Win GUI.

I actually worked with MS in the development of DX.

MS Direct Draw DX was a big factor back then - One Pixel at a time - LOL - When DX3 evolved I killed all connections with MS as it was taking too much of my time.

My ID was SafeMode.

Anand is a good guy and we communicated back in the early days of the net. He knows who SafeMode is.

Unfortunately the ID of SafeMode became synonymous with Hacking - Which I can't disclaim within reason.

I am SafeMode, in witch case CSIS will continue to track me and I had better behave or hire me - Too many imposters leaving a trail of garbage - I surrender - ROLF ;o)

 

[HumblePie]

I have a I7-2600K @ 4.4 Ghz still chugging along. I still have a crossfire ATI 6950's (unlocked to 6970's and OC'd some) and am able to run games at the settings I want just fine still.

I haven't seen a justification yet really based off performance and pricing to think about upgrading my main system. I use it for gaming, development, and other assorted things like surfing the net or watching videos. Nothing crazy and easily accomplished with what I have with no apparent bottlenecks.

Could I upgrade and get a bit of a boost? Sure, but will it be really noticeable? I doubt it. I had a feeling when I put this rig together it would last more than the 1/2 year cycle I had been doing. Good thing too because I'm not single anymore and have far less discretionary cash to spend on things like new computers all the time.

 

[Z15CAM]

Relish our Desk Tops while they exist and can buy components to build one.

Hence: SafeMode to Z15CAM.

It's obvious I stick up for the Z68/i7 2600k platform because within the last 3 years nothing can beat it for the money.

In the Canadian summer I ride a 71 Breganze Laverda 750 SF. I'm getting too old with too many children , whom I no longer have say but hopefully love never dies for a 76 Harley AMF 1100 Sportser - I'm shameless.

The Z68/i7 2600k socket 1150 Desk Top Platform was and will always be a Power House and sadly last of its kind.

Quiz - In what movie did George C. Scott, Orson Welles and Peter Seller star in? Yah! I know I'm sick.