Worthy upgrade from 2600k yet?

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Makaveli

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2002
4,761
1,160
136
I would wait.

i'm on a build I created from 2009 with some upgrades here and there over the years and machine runs everything great.

I won't look at anything else until Haswell E but want to see what is going happen on the chipset front. x79 is a turn off due to its age!

While the newer stuff does have some large gains in benchmarks in real world use it just not there for me yet.
 

2is

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2012
4,281
131
106
I wouldn't touch a thing until at least Haswell-E. 2011 platform is just too old and missing several features. And Haswell on 1150 isn't enough of an upgrade IMO.
 

Braxos

Member
May 24, 2013
126
0
76
I wouldn't touch a thing until at least Haswell-E. 2011 platform is just too old and missing several features. And Haswell on 1150 isn't enough of an upgrade IMO.

+1

The only reason to thinking for a upgrade was r4be for the looks and for my 770 sli that runs pcie 2.0 x8 on my p8p67 deluxe with 2600k @ 4.5(on auto).

I had bought a pb278q which after 20 days had bright pixel on the middle of the monitor but after 3 refurbished shirt replacements from Asus I took my money back and I am using the old bx2335, the gsync was announced in that time so I am waiting for a gsync monitor.

My thoughts was 5-10% fps from cpu (4930k), 3-8% fps from sli and a option for tri-sli plus some performance boost from a higher clock ram.

But 550d doesn't have space for e-atx board without modding it or 130 for the 540 air.
Plus 350 for 32gb at 2400 gskill one's.
380 the board
480 the 4930k
So 1300 more for not even 20% for a 1080p @60hz to much for my taste since the 2011 is a overaged chip set. Better wait a 6-9 month and pay together 2.5k for new build.

500-700 gsync monitor (swift)
1k CPU and board hasswell-e
300 for ddr4 if prices are OK if not hello ddr3
And 700 for a gtx 880 (ti or not).
Last 2 can be left out if budget is low. Can be bought later on.

My 2600k can go 4.8 with low twicking had it so in the past for a month but clocked it down for the summer and the 4.5 is enough for me I think.
 

LittleTinGod

Member
Aug 27, 2013
34
0
0
I have an i5-2500k running at 4.3 and I just up'd my GTX 580 to an EVGA 780 SC ACX. I'm very happy with my decesion so far. I can't see any reasonable arguement for me changing my CPU anytime soon.
 
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steve wilson

Senior member
Sep 18, 2004
839
0
76
I recently asked the same question about my 2500k which was running at stock 3.3ghz. I Oc'd it to 4.5Ghz and it gave me a nice little boost in the games I play. I came to the same conclusion as most have in this thread. No need to upgrade until skylake at the earliest. So that's roughly 2 years time (factoring in the inevitable delays)?
 

CHEMEMAN

Member
May 28, 2010
29
0
66
I just upgraded my X58 with a Xeon W3540 at 4.4ghz to an X79 with a 4930K at 4.6ghz. Honestly, I wish that I had purchased a $50 combo card that gave me USB 3.0 and Sata 3 instead. I really felt that the Sata and USB 3.0 were holding me back, an that is the majority of what I gained by upgrading. The clock for clock performance is so close that it is practically immaterial and the extra cores sit idle the vast majority of the time.
 

Makaveli

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2002
4,761
1,160
136
I just upgraded my X58 with a Xeon W3540 at 4.4ghz to an X79 with a 4930K at 4.6ghz. Honestly, I wish that I had purchased a $50 combo card that gave me USB 3.0 and Sata 3 instead. I really felt that the Sata and USB 3.0 were holding me back, an that is the majority of what I gained by upgrading. The clock for clock performance is so close that it is practically immaterial and the extra cores sit idle the vast majority of the time.

Feel your pain bro.

Even though there is like a +20% IPC gain from Bloomfield to Ivy in real world usage its hard to see it and only some apps benefit greatly.

X58 has lasted so long its probably my favorite build out of all i've done in the last 15 years.
 

MBentz

Golden Member
Jun 8, 2005
1,049
0
0
With my 2600K purchased in July 2011 and a SSD, it's going to be a very long time before I upgrade. The occasional GPU upgrade keeps the system feeling fresh. Best to invest in a couple nice IPS monitors before building a new system.
 

Beavermatic

Senior member
Oct 24, 2006
373
7
81
eh, if youre running Sandy Bridge/Ivy Bridge/Haswell, then your pretty much good to go unless you need 6/8 cores of the -E series IB's, which no game is really gonna benefit from currently.. more so specific design and media apps. And as it's already been stated, the 2011 socket for the -E series is kind of old, especially considering the chipsets are in the not too distant future.
 
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BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,785
1,500
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I think I'm coming around to the view that if you "want" an "E" processor, you don't "need" the IB-E, and it's better to wait for the fall release of the Haswell-E.

Of those folks still running SB-K processors (2500 or 2600), if you seriously pursued a sweet spot for the PLL Voltage at 4.5 or higher, what was it?

Could I guess that it was somewhere between 1.65 and 1.68V? Just a student's T sample: three to five people could chime in here . . .
 

996GT2

Diamond Member
Jun 23, 2005
5,212
0
76
I think I'm coming around to the view that if you "want" an "E" processor, you don't "need" the IB-E, and it's better to wait for the fall release of the Haswell-E.

Of those folks still running SB-K processors (2500 or 2600), if you seriously pursued a sweet spot for the PLL Voltage at 4.5 or higher, what was it?

Could I guess that it was somewhere between 1.65 and 1.68V? Just a student's T sample: three to five people could chime in here . . .

I'm running at stock PLL voltage with internal PLL overvoltage off. 4.8 GHz 24 hours prime stable.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,785
1,500
126
I'm running at stock PLL voltage with internal PLL overvoltage off. 4.8 GHz 24 hours prime stable.

With my 4.7 clock, I needed to increase the idle EIST voltage by as much as 10 mV. So I bumped up the offset by 0.010V or two notches and then reduced the "Extra volts for Turbo" by 0.008V -- or two notches. I knocked down the PLL voltage to ~1.700V from 1.79V.

I'm now going to knock down the "Xtra. . Turbo" by another 0.004V -- net 2mV decrease over the previous setting I had judged as "final."

I saw some authoritative indications that there is a sweet spot for the PLL voltage in the range I cited. So planning to adjust it some more and run some shorter LinX runs, I thought I'd ask. Maybe someone else knows -- or has an idea.
 

jmartin357

Member
Oct 6, 2004
47
0
66
I've been running a 960 since the end of 2k9. every generation I tell myself "this will be the generation I upgrade!" ... and I don't. I'm currently planning to jump on haswell-e... until it arrives and I then also don't.

I'm starting to feel like a terrible enthusiast.
 

vshah

Lifer
Sep 20, 2003
19,003
24
81
Yeah, I'd look at other things to upgrade--SSD, video card, etc. I'm on a i7 920 and itching to upgrade but I might wait til DDR4 goes mainstream at least.

yeah, same boat here. OCed the 920 is still plenty capable for any game or program I use.
 

_Rick_

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2012
3,937
69
91
Well, there is one upgrade that might actually give a real sense of adventure and performance: A 130W+ IB-EP ten-core Xeon.
In single threaded applications it should be only slightly slower than a well OC'ed 2600, but 20 threads over 8 is going to be more noticeable, when you need them.
Of course, these things aren't exactly cheap, and make no real sense as an upgrade, except for the sake of upgrading
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,785
1,500
126
I'm running at stock PLL voltage with internal PLL overvoltage off. 4.8 GHz 24 hours prime stable.

It looks very much like there IS a PLL voltage sweet spot. We had 79F ambient the other night when my LinX temperatures averaged 72C. Today it is 80F, but LinX temperatures are 69C with the PLL voltage turned down (to 1.70) and "PLL Overvoltage" on either "auto" or "disabled."
 

Z15CAM

Platinum Member
Nov 20, 2010
2,184
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91
www.flickr.com
I run an i7 2700k which isn't much more then a binned i7 2600k. It will run 24/7 at 5G's with 1.462/1.512 volts but normally I have it set to operate between 1600 to 4600 Mhz at 1.16 volts. (Sorry that 1.16v is in BIOS should read 1.0v to 1.334v)
 
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BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,785
1,500
126
I run an i7 2700k which isn't much more then a binned i7 2600k. It will run 24/7 at 5G's with 1.462/1.512 volts but normally I have it set to operate between 1600 to 4600 Mhz at 1.16 volts.

That's where I limit my voltage settings. To reach 4.8GHz, I'd likely need to raise the load vCORE to 1.38, and the unloaded turbo voltage would be 1.40+V. At 1.34 to 1.35 load and 1.38 unloaded turbo, I'm inclined to stand pat at 4.7. My idle voltage is now about 1.020V

Is your 1.16 voltage reading taken from an EIST idle? Because I'd still think you'd need closer to 1.3 for fully loaded and drooped voltage at 4.6.

My additional tweaks are slowly troubleshooting EIST instability that occurs every 10 day to one month. It has been troublesome to troubleshoot, but I've mostly eliminated most of the possibilities other than some sort of hardware failure, and I think I've also put those to rest as well. It is very likely a result of PLL and VCCIO settings. The temperature drops are very encouraging, but I can only wait and see.
 

Z15CAM

Platinum Member
Nov 20, 2010
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Is your 1.16 voltage reading taken from an EIST idle?
OOPS! Sorry for that 1.162v I mentioned - that's the voltage while in BIOS. The 1600 to 4600Mhz OC runs between V1.000v to 1.334v with a - 0.005 offset while in Windows.

You also require a descent OC's MB. I'm running an ASUS GA-P8Z68V-Pro Gen3 which is a very friendly OC'r plus I'm water cooling with temps at idle of 34 maxing 47C under Prime95 for that clocking.

Temps for the constant 5000Mhz clocking with 1.462 to 1.521v's and + 0.115v offset is 42C at idle to 67C running Prime95.

Personally I don't like going over 1.5v on a SB processor as it could damage the CPU's memory controller but I've heard lots do it without issues.

That i7 2600k would love a Corsair H110 and easily run at 4600 to 4800 Mhz's and again a descent OC'g MB with a good PSU.
 
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BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,785
1,500
126
OOPS! Sorry for that 1.162v I mentioned - that's the voltage while in BIOS. The 1600 to 4600Mhz OC runs between V1.000v to 1.334v with a - 0.005 offset while in Windows.

You also require a descent OC's MB. I'm running an ASUS GA-P8Z68V-Pro Gen3 which is a very friendly OC'r plus I'm water cooling with temps at idle of 34 maxing 47C under Prime95 for that clocking.

Temps for the constant 5000Mhz clocking with 1.462 to 1.521v's and + 0.115v offset is 42C at idle to 67C running Prime95.

Personally I don't like going over 1.5v on a SB processor as it could damage the CPU's memory controller but I've heard lots do it without issues.

That i7 2600k would love a Corsair H110 and easily run at 4600 to 4800 Mhz's and again a descent OC'g MB with a good PSU.

I've got the first release of that board, and I'm not entirely sure of the difference. I thought I'd read where the Gen3 board was "ready for Ivy Bridge." Later, I thought I saw BIOS upgrades for my Pro board which included " . . to run 22nm" or "make compatible with new processors."

I have a friend -- retired physicist; we'd both sat in the same Thermo, Nuclear Physics and 4A-thru-4D freshman introduction classes. He still tells me the limit for a transistor is 1.5V. How this applies in some ballpark with the Intel processors, he couldn't likely explain, and I wouldn't know.

So -- no objection to your high benchmark clock. I just think it's marginally useful to push the processor over either a mfgr spec or a general consensus for "safe" voltage. Intel hadn't included that spec since Nehalem, if I'm not mistaken. It was ~1.38V. If the previous Wolfies and Yorkies were 45nm, the Nehalem has a lithography like SB or 32nm. There's some archive web article saying that Intel scrapped 45nm for Nehalem, and only the 775's mentioned, the Lynnfield and Clarksfield are 45nm. Other socket 1366 Nehalem cores were 32nm, like Sandy Bridge.

1.38V was also the safe range upper-bound spec'd for Wolfdale and Yorkfield.

So it may be that 1.38V is a reasonable safe limit for Sandy Bridge even though it's not a published spec, and this had been assumed in some reliable web overclocking guides. Even so, some subset of SB enthusiasts came to a consensus it should be 1.35. But any such official specs are a judgment about probability frequency distributions, RMA cost-accounting and other factors. In many of these respects, it is simply a line bisecting some probability density function of failure within the 3-year warranty, and the thinking behind it is to make the chances of warranty replacement unlikely enough to be insignificant or near-zero.

In my case -- 30 months after I built this rig -- I'm trying to eliminate the very most infrequent idle EIST instability. But I use the same techniques to hone in on the optimum voltages (among all those that are stable or near-stable) to get the maximum GFLOPS with the smallest variation. So I can take sample runs of 15 iterations or so, save the LinX logs, load them into the spreadsheet and put in a couple cells for each list using "AVG" and "STDDEV." Or, more crudely, I can look at the absolute range (Max less Min), and I can even throw away outliers that are explainable. For instance, I may observe that Media Center is doing a background update of program listings during a particular run which shows 126 GFLOPS when all the rest are between 127 and 129.

BAsed on these things, I might adjust voltage 4mv up or down, or 5mv up or down in "offset" and "Turbo Voltage" for the sweet spot. These will always be higher than voltages found just adequately stable and bumped up a notch for "safe measure."

So I might go to 4.8Ghz if I can further lower the sweet spot for 4.7, and if I venture into that higher failure distribution, I could only guess whether CPU life is shortened two, three, four years and so on. If I could only guess and I need my computer, I'll be more cautious.

ADDENDUM: "Earth, Air, Fire, Water." Today my RA is 75F, and my four-core maximum average for LinX fully-loaded temperatures is ~68C. So I made some slight improvements there, just for disabling PLL Overvoltage and reducing PLL voltage to 1.68V. Only time would tell if this slight improvement gets me lower load VCORE, but my last 15-pass sample tells me -- "Not much." Maybe next week I'll take another sample for giving it a closer look. Anyway -- all this occurs with a D14 cooler and a single, better fan.
 
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rgallant

Golden Member
Apr 14, 2007
1,361
11
81
That's where I limit my voltage settings. To reach 4.8GHz, I'd likely need to raise the load vCORE to 1.38, and the unloaded turbo voltage would be 1.40+V. At 1.34 to 1.35 load and 1.38 unloaded turbo, I'm inclined to stand pat at 4.7. My idle voltage is now about 1.020V

Is your 1.16 voltage reading taken from an EIST idle? Because I'd still think you'd need closer to 1.3 for fully loaded and drooped voltage at 4.6.

My additional tweaks are slowly troubleshooting EIST instability that occurs every 10 day to one month. It has been troublesome to troubleshoot, but I've mostly eliminated most of the possibilities other than some sort of hardware failure, and I think I've also put those to rest as well. It is very likely a result of PLL and VCCIO settings. The temperature drops are very encouraging, but I can only wait and see.
just saying
for me using EIST I did not like the massive clock swings \ and possible inrush voltage jumps , so I maxed out the win power plan so my 3770k idles at 3500 w\ 1.192v then ramps up to 4600 when needed.
-only issues I have is that ms programmers don't have a clue , why down clock every ms and have clocks and voltage cycle up and down ,there should be a adjustable delay on the down clocking say 5 mins.er my system does not have a battery .
 

Z15CAM

Platinum Member
Nov 20, 2010
2,184
64
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Yes, with latest firmware, you can run IB in the GA-P8Z68 and have PCIe3.0 support. PCIe 2.0 with SB.

You have USB 3 UASP support with the Gen 3 and Deluxe models via ASMedia. It has a 12/4 Phase DIGI+VRM with PWM and UEFI BIOS making it a great OC'g board.

About the only complaint I have with the board is that you can not RAID on either the Marvell Sata 2 or the JMicron Sata 3 controllers.

As far a getting 4.8G's or a stable 4.7G OC with 1.35v with a SB is just luck of the silicon lottery and highly unlikely but you should get 4.6G's. I can see a possible 4.8G's with 1.45v with your average chip. A Corsair H110 does give you an advantage. To me if I get 3 years out of this i7 2700k I'm ahead when I can push it to or above 5.0 G's on occasions with around 1.5v and keep the Temps below 67C under load.

To say there is a 1.35 or 1.5v max for transistors is perplexing as I have an AMD 1.8 Barton that has been running 24/7 at 2.3G with 1.8v for that last 12 years and hasn't slowed down - again the silicon lottery, I assume ; however as far as OC'g enthusiasts go, 1.35 to 1.5v is generally considered safe for SB when under water.
 
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Galatian

Senior member
Dec 7, 2012
372
0
71
To say there is a 1.35 or 1.5v max for transistors is perplexing as I have an AMD 1.8 Barton that has been running 24/7 at 2.3G with 1.8v for that last 12 years and hasn't slowed down - again the silicon lottery, I assume ; however as far as OC'g enthusiasts go, 1.35 to 1.5v is generally considered safe for SB when under water.


Well your Barton was made a completely different transistor size. Electron migration or whatever it is called and the damage resulting from it becomes more severe the smaller you get in size I think.
 

Z15CAM

Platinum Member
Nov 20, 2010
2,184
64
91
www.flickr.com
I get a stable constant 4.8G OC with a + 0.035 offset yielding 1.384v idle / 1.424v turbo under load temps ranging between 40C at idle to 68C under load - That is safer then a constant 5G OC at approx 1.5v.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,785
1,500
126
just saying
for me using EIST I did not like the massive clock swings \ and possible inrush voltage jumps , so I maxed out the win power plan so my 3770k idles at 3500 w\ 1.192v then ramps up to 4600 when needed.
-only issues I have is that ms programmers don't have a clue , why down clock every ms and have clocks and voltage cycle up and down ,there should be a adjustable delay on the down clocking say 5 mins.er my system does not have a battery .

See -- that gets back to a 2007 December Anandtech article on voltages -- albeit the old LGA-775 9650X. But the point of it still applies: there are unmonitored/unregistered voltage spikes in load to idle transition at the upper end, and there are harmonic spikes at the lower end just as the processor settles into idle. So even the advice then is relevant to today's processors: you can be "totally stable" at load, but you perceive instability in idle.

Otherwise, any means of clamping or managing the swings with today's motherboards would seem adequate. The worst outcome then and probably the one now -- is the spike that occurs ending the most drooped and loaded voltage that occurs. Probably for a lot of games and other applications, a mild loading means the CPU is running at higher-than-minimum load, but the spike would also reflect the mild loading. That's my best guess -- I could be wrong, but it seems right.

I found some guides at Overclockers or some such sites. There had been a problem with these SB-K processors with enough overclockers experiencing random idle code-124 BSODs or similar instability. The less frequent these are -- like mine occurring between a week and a month -- suggests some borderline factor. And the cited reasons are overvolted VCCIO even below its 1.2 safe limit, and PLL voltage at its stock value of 1.8. The suggestion there is to run VCCIO between 1.0 and 1.10, and PLL voltage as low as 1.65 although 1.68+ seems to be a good setting.
 
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