Would now be a good time to start deporting illegals?

[Chunkee]

How about grant them citizenship, have them pay taxes, then deport all freeloaders on welfare? Sounds a little better to me. At most of these guys want to work.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Again, so if we FOLLOW THE ACTUAL LAW and don't grant these babies citizenship then they go right back to the country they are subjects are - just like their parents.

Enforcing the law costs a shit load of money. Why people think that raiding America in search of illegals without infringing on the privacy rights of legal Americans will be effective, cheap, and easy is beyond me.

Eh? Why not stop the flow first? One way is to emphatically end the anchor baby travesty. Another would be to finish the damn fence. And another would be strict business enforcement along with an SS# check system that BHO looks to have defunded/ended/whatever.

THEN after those things in place we deport as we catch them. IMMEDIATE deportation would work.

In regards to the children of illegals, I think a lot of you are missing one very important point. That is, the laws of other countries. Sure, we can change our laws to state that these kids do not get granted any kind of citizenship, but then what do we do? Where do we send them? What if the laws in other countries states that in order to be a citizen of their country they must be born on their own soil? That would mean that the kids born here in the US cannot just be sent to the country where their parents hold citizenship. What if those other countries say "no" or change their laws? We can't stop them.

Even if you do manage to get some legislation passed which ceases these children from gaining citizenship I can guarantee you that it will include some kind of grandfather clause. That means all kids here now will remain citizens. There is no way you will ever see legislation passed which does not include that kind of clause. After that, you will need to contend with the problem of separating kids from their illegal parents through deportation. That will never be allowed to happen either and that is not just a bleeding heart liberal concern. Most people have issues with separating the parents from legal American children unless those parents are threatening to the kids. Not to mention that you, the tax payer, would then be paying for them in full at a state run orphanage if you did. Not only is this idea incredibly unrealistic, it is beyond inhumane. Illegals are still people no matter how you slice it and it is not like these kids had a choice.

I agree with the fence thing. We do need to stop the flow.

In regards to business penalties, the hard part is enforcement. Businesses which have no issues paying illegals to work for them know how to get around nearly any law you could possibly throw at them unless you plan to allow the government to severely regulate our markets in ways that the vast majority of conservatives oppose. It is kind of like how the rich work around taxes placed on them. They always find loopholes. That doesn't mean that I think those kinds of laws should not exist. I think they should. However, I don't think you should look at it as some kind of silver bullet either. The effectiveness will be much more limited than you think. It will not be effective enough to stop them from desiring to come here. Remember, where they are coming from in most cases is a lot worse regardless of these kinds of threats.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Again, so if we FOLLOW THE ACTUAL LAW and don't grant these babies citizenship then they go right back to the country they are subjects are - just like their parents.

Enforcing the law costs a shit load of money. Why people think that raiding America in search of illegals without infringing on the privacy rights of legal Americans will be effective, cheap, and easy is beyond me.

Eh? Why not stop the flow first? One way is to emphatically end the anchor baby travesty. Another would be to finish the damn fence. And another would be strict business enforcement along with an SS# check system that BHO looks to have defunded/ended/whatever.

THEN after those things in place we deport as we catch them. IMMEDIATE deportation would work.

In regards to the children of illegals, I think a lot of you are missing one very important point. That is, the laws of other countries. Sure, we can change our laws to state that these kids do not get granted any kind of citizenship, but then what do we do? Where do we send them? What if the laws in other countries states that in order to be a citizen of their country they must be born on their own soil? That would mean that the kids born here in the US cannot just be sent to the country where their parents hold citizenship. What if those other countries say "no" or change their laws? We can't stop them.

Even if you do manage to get some legislation passed which ceases these children from gaining citizenship I can guarantee you that it will include some kind of grandfather clause. That means all kids here now will remain citizens. There is no way you will ever see legislation passed which does not include that kind of clause. After that, you will need to contend with the problem of separating kids from their illegal parents through deportation. That will never be allowed to happen either and that is not just a bleeding heart liberal concern. Most people have issues with separating the parents from legal American children unless those parents are threatening to the kids. Not to mention that you, the tax payer, would then be paying for them in full at a state run orphanage if you did. Not only is this idea incredibly unrealistic, it is beyond inhumane. Illegals are still people no matter how you slice it and it is not like these kids had a choice.

I agree with the fence thing. We do need to stop the flow.

In regards to business penalties, the hard part is enforcement. Businesses which have no issues paying illegals to work for them know how to get around nearly any law you could possibly throw at them unless you plan to allow the government to severely regulate our markets in ways that the vast majority of conservatives oppose. It is kind of like how the rich work around taxes placed on them. They always find loopholes. That doesn't mean that I think those kinds of laws should not exist. I think they should. However, I don't think you should look at it as some kind of silver bullet either. The effectiveness will be much more limited than you think. It will not be effective enough to stop them from desiring to come here. Remember, where they are coming from in most cases is a lot worse regardless of these kinds of threats.

lol, same old tired garbage...

What effect does another country's law have on ours? That's right - NONE.
No where did anyone suggest that current anchor babies be stripped of their unearned citizenship status.

Business enforcement would be easy. Have a SS# check in place. If it comes back OK, the company is off the hook as they may have no reason to think otherwise. It would then be on the gov't to make sure the SS# check system could sense fraud. I thought we were working on just such a program but it looks like BHO is going to let it drop. As for the penalties - a business who gets caught employing a person and failed to run them through the SS# check(or other sorts of fraud) would have stiff monetary penalties and in the case of willful fraud - potential jail time.

It's not that hard of an issue - just too many people letting their feelings cloud rational thought.

 

[Infohawk]

Sounds good to me, but BHO won't do it.

And I'm tired of the "they add to the economy argument." Anything they add is drowned out by the significant strain they put on public services.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
What effect does another country's law have on ours? That's right - NONE.
No where did anyone suggest that current anchor babies be stripped of their unearned citizenship status.

...and what about future children? They would be in limbo with no citizenship anywhere in some cases. Which country do you plan to drop them off at and what are you going to do if that country opposes such a thing? They are not obligated to cooperate with us.

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Business enforcement would be easy. Have a SS# check in place. If it comes back OK, the company is off the hook as they may have no reason to think otherwise. It would then be on the gov't to make sure the SS# check system could sense fraud. I thought we were working on just such a program but it looks like BHO is going to let it drop. As for the penalties - a business who gets caught employing a person and failed to run them through the SS# check(or other sorts of fraud) would have stiff monetary penalties and in the case of willful fraud - potential jail time.

It's not that hard of an issue - just too many people letting their feelings cloud rational thought.

You really need to look into how incredibly easy it is to get illegals to do work for you. SS checks will not help much of anything because their pay is not on the books.

Three words: "Under the table"

I'm telling you. They will find a way. They always do. I know tons of companies in S. FL that pay a lot of money for illegals to work all of the time. SS# checks would not effect them at all because none of that stuff is on the books and they have very efficient ways of hiding everything they need to hide. You are relying on the govt. to be able to "sense" this fraud, but how confident are you really in its effectiveness to do so? How exactly are they going to magically "sense" it? What makes you think that these companies will not be able to easily find ways to avoid such things even if new measures are put into place? How much money are you willing to spend regularly in order to make such detection effective?

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Drakkon

Originally posted by: shinerburke
We should be rounding their asses up every day and shipping them back to wherever it is they came from.

Problem with that is they just come back. Every day i drive by a spot in town that is known for illegals. They stand on the side of the street waiting for work. The cops know it and the public knows it. What do they do about it? Not a darn thing because the cops know they will just be back the next day and the next day.

.

we could shoot them

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: Drakkon

Originally posted by: shinerburke
We should be rounding their asses up every day and shipping them back to wherever it is they came from.

Problem with that is they just come back. Every day i drive by a spot in town that is known for illegals. They stand on the side of the street waiting for work. The cops know it and the public knows it. What do they do about it? Not a darn thing because the cops know they will just be back the next day and the next day.

.

we could shoot them

Or pay a bounty. $20.00 per set of ears.

(EDIT) Sarcasm does not equal racism. Go fuck yourself.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
What effect does another country's law have on ours? That's right - NONE.
No where did anyone suggest that current anchor babies be stripped of their unearned citizenship status.

...and what about future children? They would be in limbo with no citizenship anywhere in some cases. Which country do you plan to drop them off at and what are you going to do if that country opposes such a thing? They are not obligated to cooperate with us.

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Business enforcement would be easy. Have a SS# check in place. If it comes back OK, the company is off the hook as they may have no reason to think otherwise. It would then be on the gov't to make sure the SS# check system could sense fraud. I thought we were working on just such a program but it looks like BHO is going to let it drop. As for the penalties - a business who gets caught employing a person and failed to run them through the SS# check(or other sorts of fraud) would have stiff monetary penalties and in the case of willful fraud - potential jail time.

It's not that hard of an issue - just too many people letting their feelings cloud rational thought.

You really need to look into how incredibly easy it is to get illegals to do work for you. SS checks will not help much of anything because their pay is not on the books.

Three words: "Under the table"

I'm telling you. They will find a way. They always do. I know tons of companies in S. FL that pay a lot of money for illegals to work all of the time. SS# checks would not effect them at all because none of that stuff is on the books and they have very efficient ways of hiding everything they need to hide. You are relying on the govt. to be able to "sense" this fraud, but how confident are you really in its effectiveness to do so? How exactly are they going to magically "sense" it? What makes you think that these companies will not be able to easily find ways to avoid such things even if new measures are put into place? How much money are you willing to spend regularly in order to make such detection effective?

Again, their legal status in a different country has ZERO bearing on the laws of this country.


"under the table" - :roll: And what did I post? That's right - if they bypass the SS# check that constitutes willful fraud and thus would face prosecution.
Sure, it's on the gov't to "sense" it but IF we could get people like you to stop with the BS emotional crap and sign on to rational and logical systems then maybe there would be a push within the gov't to do it right instead of half-assed.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Again, their legal status in a different country has ZERO bearing on the laws of this country.


"under the table" - :roll: And what did I post? That's right - if they bypass the SS# check that constitutes willful fraud and thus would face prosecution.
Sure, it's on the gov't to "sense" it but IF we could get people like you to stop with the BS emotional crap and sign on to rational and logical systems then maybe there would be a push within the gov't to do it right instead of half-assed.

The real difference between you and I is that I am heavily considering what actually has a chance at being effective rather than letting my emotional hatred of these people effect my thinking. You want laws in place, but you are not objectively considering the whole picture enough in order to really form an educated idea about whether or not the laws you want will actually work. Laws that sound good and fair on paper to the point where you are emotionally satisfied are useless if they are not effective.

I think it is really funny how you lack so much confidence in government when it comes to programs that you do not support, but you have blind faith on programs which you like such as this SS# fraud detection stuff to rid the country of illegals.

You want to convince me otherwise? Why not lay out a plan for us all on how they will "sense" this fraud and do so effectively? All you have done so far is tell us how the magical government will all the sudden be able to efficiently perform such a thing without any justification as to why it will perform well other than stating BS like "OMG IT IS ALL THE LIBS FAULT!" blah blah blah.

Lastly, I am still waiting for you to tell me which country you plan to drop these kids off that have zero legal status in any country. Which country is going to let you use them as your trash bin? What incentive do you plan to give them?

 

[StormRider]

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: eskimospy


This is incorrect. Well, technically police can ASK for whatever they want, but you are not required to give ID to the police. The only time they can compel you to give ID is if they have reasonable cause to believe that a crime has been committed, or is about to be committed. You know as well as I do that 'standing in front of Home Depot' is not going to cut it. Furthermore they can tell the cops to fuck off if they ask them about their tax returns.

I'm also not sure how the cops would set up a sting to report undeclared wages done by the workers, as they aren't compelled to disclose their wages to anyone but the IRS and below a certain point (which they are probably at) unreported income is only subject to fines, not arrest.

I thought being in this country illegally was a crime?

There are a lot of things that are a "crime". I'm pretty sure that if someone was "out to get you" they could find something you've done in the past to charge you with a crime of some sort.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: StormRider

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: eskimospy


This is incorrect. Well, technically police can ASK for whatever they want, but you are not required to give ID to the police. The only time they can compel you to give ID is if they have reasonable cause to believe that a crime has been committed, or is about to be committed. You know as well as I do that 'standing in front of Home Depot' is not going to cut it. Furthermore they can tell the cops to fuck off if they ask them about their tax returns.

I'm also not sure how the cops would set up a sting to report undeclared wages done by the workers, as they aren't compelled to disclose their wages to anyone but the IRS and below a certain point (which they are probably at) unreported income is only subject to fines, not arrest.

I thought being in this country illegally was a crime?

There are a lot of things that are a "crime". I'm pretty sure that if someone was "out to get you" they could find something you've done in the past to charge you with a crime of some sort.

So this is some reason not to enforce the law?


I speed sometimes, so immigration laws should not be enforced!

That is a reach.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Again, their legal status in a different country has ZERO bearing on the laws of this country.


"under the table" - :roll: And what did I post? That's right - if they bypass the SS# check that constitutes willful fraud and thus would face prosecution.
Sure, it's on the gov't to "sense" it but IF we could get people like you to stop with the BS emotional crap and sign on to rational and logical systems then maybe there would be a push within the gov't to do it right instead of half-assed.

The real difference between you and I is that I am heavily considering what actually has a chance at being effective rather than letting my emotional hatred of these people effect my thinking. You want laws in place, but you are not objectively considering the whole picture enough in order to really form an educated idea about whether or not the laws you want will actually work. Laws that sound good and fair on paper to the point where you are emotionally satisfied are useless if they are not effective.

I think it is really funny how you lack so much confidence in government when it comes to programs that you do not support, but you have blind faith on programs which you like such as this SS# fraud detection stuff to rid the country of illegals.

You want to convince me otherwise? Why not lay out a plan for us all on how they will "sense" this fraud and do so effectively? All you have done so far is tell us how the magical government will all the sudden be able to efficiently perform such a thing without any justification as to why it will perform well other than stating BS like "OMG IT IS ALL THE LIBS FAULT!" blah blah blah.

Lastly, I am still waiting for you to tell me which country you plan to drop these kids off that have zero legal status in any country. Which country is going to let you use them as your trash bin? What incentive do you plan to give them?

Except you're exactly wrong. I do not hate anyone. Your accusation is just the typical emotional liberal accusations against those that want the law to be upheld and for ILLEGALS to be sent home. I have ZERO problem with Immigrants("immigrant" is reserved for those here legally).
Also you are wrong about who is using emotional arguments - it's been you. "what about the future children" Yeah, no emotional play there...:roll:

lol, you(not surprisingly) don't understand my position on having the gov't run the program. As it is right now - hells no I don't have any confidence - because they don't seem to be interested in admitting the problem or even attempting to fix it in a rational manner. Now IF we could get libs like you to drop the emotional BS and stick to logical discussion than maybe, just maybe our gov't will be able to put together a rational program that people actually want to work. Without some solidarity - I would have ZERO confidence in it.

wow, are you really that stupid? Do you not understand data mining? Do you not understand that multiple hits would flag numbers? Do you not understand that name mismatches would flag them? Also on top of that would be employer history so there could easily be more thorough audits and checks of those "caught" to make sure there is no funny business. And also IF we could get everyone behind it, the program would adapt as some of the fraudsters find holes. IT's not just a one time effort which you don't seem to understand.

The kids would go with their parents. When the parents are in their appropriate country, they can deal with any issue with their kid. Again, another country's issue has ZERO bearing on our law despite your attempts to try to bring some emotional children argument into it. Yes, there will be some issues that come up but that doesn't mean we don't enforce the law.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: StormRider

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: eskimospy


This is incorrect. Well, technically police can ASK for whatever they want, but you are not required to give ID to the police. The only time they can compel you to give ID is if they have reasonable cause to believe that a crime has been committed, or is about to be committed. You know as well as I do that 'standing in front of Home Depot' is not going to cut it. Furthermore they can tell the cops to fuck off if they ask them about their tax returns.

I'm also not sure how the cops would set up a sting to report undeclared wages done by the workers, as they aren't compelled to disclose their wages to anyone but the IRS and below a certain point (which they are probably at) unreported income is only subject to fines, not arrest.

I thought being in this country illegally was a crime?

There are a lot of things that are a "crime". I'm pretty sure that if someone was "out to get you" they could find something you've done in the past to charge you with a crime of some sort.

So this is some reason not to enforce the law?


I speed sometimes, so immigration laws should not be enforced!

That is a reach.

Pssttt... don't try to find logic in the illogical - it's just not there. Libs and open border types fail time after time on this when forced to apply logic instead of emotion.

 

[StormRider]

You guys all like to scapegoat all your problems on "illegals" but I'm pretty sure that if we native born US citizens did the following then our country would be in pretty good shape right now:

1) Not think that making and packaging loans to people who can never pay it back is worth something and leveraging companies on these loans.
2) Not pursue a unwise/immoral war that will drain tons of money when we didn't even finish the job in Afghanistan
3) Maybe lessen our desire for drugs so drug cartels in Mexico can't become this big and dangerous.

Most of our problems are caused by us -- not them.

I'm personally not bothered when I see an "illegal" looking for work such as painting our houses or landscaping. They're not trying to push a service that no one wants.

It's a lot better than seeing our citizens on the street with signs like "Homeless. Please Help. God Bless you".

Or how about going door to door and trying to sell useless magazines through guilt? "Hi, I'm selling magazines to help prevent kids like me going into gangs. How many magazines can I put you down for? You do want to help prevent kids like me from being in gangs, don't you?".

Or how about rushing to your stopped car and washing your windshield without asking and then demanding money for the "job"?

We have a society that sends kids on decadent vacations to Mexico and Florida on Spring Break. We have kids that like to take a break after graduating from college so they can backpack across Europe for a year. We have 2 or 3 cars in our garages. We have multiple computers and HDTVs in our houses. We have cell phones and iPods.

And yet we get our panties in a wad if someone comes here without official permission just so they can paint our houses, cut our grass, and clean our toilets -- so they can send a little bit of money back home to their families so they can have some hope for a better future.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
wow, are you really that stupid? Do you not understand data mining? Do you not understand that multiple hits would flag numbers? Do you not understand that name mismatches would flag them? Also on top of that would be employer history so there could easily be more thorough audits and checks of those "caught" to make sure there is no funny business. And also IF we could get everyone behind it, the program would adapt as some of the fraudsters find holes. IT's not just a one time effort which you don't seem to understand.

I understand auditing and data mining very well. The problem is there is no data to mine. They are not on any of the books and those books look very clean from the eyes of an auditor. There are no "flags" to detect because everything looks like it matches up if you do it right. I am still waiting to hear from you regarding what these auditors will be doing differently which will actually be effective. It seems like you are more interested in having laws in place that appeal to you than actually doing something which will work effectively.

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
The kids would go with their parents. When the parents are in their appropriate country, they can deal with any issue with their kid. Again, another country's issue has ZERO bearing on our law despite your attempts to try to bring some emotional children argument into it. Yes, there will be some issues that come up but that doesn't mean we don't enforce the law.

Other countries do not have to let us into their borders in order to drop them off. What do you plan to do when they say "no"? They don't want those people there any more than we want any legal lazy welfare abusers here. Do you plan to force them into that country? Do you plan to sneak them in illegally since those kids are technically illegal immigrants in their parent's country? You realize that right? You realize that what you want is for America to assist these kids in illegally immigrating into a country that they don't want to go to.

This is an international recipe for disaster. It is not nearly as easy as you are trying to make it out to be.

 

[StormRider]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: StormRider

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: eskimospy


This is incorrect. Well, technically police can ASK for whatever they want, but you are not required to give ID to the police. The only time they can compel you to give ID is if they have reasonable cause to believe that a crime has been committed, or is about to be committed. You know as well as I do that 'standing in front of Home Depot' is not going to cut it. Furthermore they can tell the cops to fuck off if they ask them about their tax returns.

I'm also not sure how the cops would set up a sting to report undeclared wages done by the workers, as they aren't compelled to disclose their wages to anyone but the IRS and below a certain point (which they are probably at) unreported income is only subject to fines, not arrest.

I thought being in this country illegally was a crime?

There are a lot of things that are a "crime". I'm pretty sure that if someone was "out to get you" they could find something you've done in the past to charge you with a crime of some sort.

So this is some reason not to enforce the law?


I speed sometimes, so immigration laws should not be enforced!

That is a reach.

No, it's not a reach. It's to show the hypocrisy from people who claim they are only against "illegals" because it's "against the law". It has nothing to do with racism. It only has to do with the law. We are a nation of laws and therefore they support enforcing of all laws.

Meanwhile, if they were 19 years old and had a 17 year old girlfriend and did what normal kids do, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to go to jail and be labeled a pedophile.

I'm pretty sure most of them wouldn't want to go to jail for sodomy or adultery for something they've done in the past.

I'm pretty sure all of them have reported all your income from selling items on Ebay. They wouldn't want to be a tax evader.

I'm pretty sure none of them have ever tried drugs or drank while underaged.

I'm pretty sure all their DVDs and MP3s were downloaded legally.

Also, noticed that all the above "crimes" are kind of selfish crimes -- they do these things for their personal pleasure -- not for survival. And yet they get their panties in a wad if someone comes here to work so they can survive or have hope for a better future. To provide for their families back home who might be living in wooden shacks and would otherwise have to search through garbage dumps to look for aluminum cans to earn maybe a few cents/day.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: StormRider

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: eskimospy


This is incorrect. Well, technically police can ASK for whatever they want, but you are not required to give ID to the police. The only time they can compel you to give ID is if they have reasonable cause to believe that a crime has been committed, or is about to be committed. You know as well as I do that 'standing in front of Home Depot' is not going to cut it. Furthermore they can tell the cops to fuck off if they ask them about their tax returns.

I'm also not sure how the cops would set up a sting to report undeclared wages done by the workers, as they aren't compelled to disclose their wages to anyone but the IRS and below a certain point (which they are probably at) unreported income is only subject to fines, not arrest.

I thought being in this country illegally was a crime?

There are a lot of things that are a "crime". I'm pretty sure that if someone was "out to get you" they could find something you've done in the past to charge you with a crime of some sort.

So this is some reason not to enforce the law?


I speed sometimes, so immigration laws should not be enforced!

That is a reach.

Pssttt... don't try to find logic in the illogical - it's just not there. Libs and open border types fail time after time on this when forced to apply logic instead of emotion.

At least most of them have dropped the "OMG you're a racist!!" BS.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: StormRider

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: StormRider

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: eskimospy


This is incorrect. Well, technically police can ASK for whatever they want, but you are not required to give ID to the police. The only time they can compel you to give ID is if they have reasonable cause to believe that a crime has been committed, or is about to be committed. You know as well as I do that 'standing in front of Home Depot' is not going to cut it. Furthermore they can tell the cops to fuck off if they ask them about their tax returns.

I'm also not sure how the cops would set up a sting to report undeclared wages done by the workers, as they aren't compelled to disclose their wages to anyone but the IRS and below a certain point (which they are probably at) unreported income is only subject to fines, not arrest.

I thought being in this country illegally was a crime?

There are a lot of things that are a "crime". I'm pretty sure that if someone was "out to get you" they could find something you've done in the past to charge you with a crime of some sort.

So this is some reason not to enforce the law?


I speed sometimes, so immigration laws should not be enforced!

That is a reach.

No, it's not a reach. It's to show the hypocrisy from people who claim they are only against "illegals" because it's "against the law". It has nothing to do with racism. It only has to do with the law. We are a nation of laws and therefore they support enforcing of all laws.

Meanwhile, if they were 19 years old and had a 17 year old girlfriend and did what normal kids do, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to go to jail and be labeled a pedophile.

I'm pretty sure most of them wouldn't want to go to jail for sodomy or adultery for something they've done in the past.

I'm pretty sure all of them have reported all your income from selling items on Ebay. They wouldn't want to be a tax evader.

I'm pretty sure none of them have ever tried drugs or drank while underaged.

I'm pretty sure all their DVDs and MP3s were downloaded legally.

Also, noticed that all the above "crimes" are kind of selfish crimes -- they do these things for their personal pleasure -- not for survival. And yet they get their panties in a wad if someone comes here to work so they can survive or have hope for a better future. To provide for their families back home who might be living in wooden shacks and would otherwise have to search through garbage dumps to look for aluminum cans to earn maybe a few cents/day.

I'm pretty sure damn few of them have went to Mexico and broke their laws.

DUHHHHH!!!

 

[rudeguy]

Originally posted by: StormRider

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: eskimospy


This is incorrect. Well, technically police can ASK for whatever they want, but you are not required to give ID to the police. The only time they can compel you to give ID is if they have reasonable cause to believe that a crime has been committed, or is about to be committed. You know as well as I do that 'standing in front of Home Depot' is not going to cut it. Furthermore they can tell the cops to fuck off if they ask them about their tax returns.

I'm also not sure how the cops would set up a sting to report undeclared wages done by the workers, as they aren't compelled to disclose their wages to anyone but the IRS and below a certain point (which they are probably at) unreported income is only subject to fines, not arrest.

I thought being in this country illegally was a crime?

There are a lot of things that are a "crime". I'm pretty sure that if someone was "out to get you" they could find something you've done in the past to charge you with a crime of some sort.

His point was that the police needed to be investigating a crime to ask for ID. I responded that being in this country illegally is a crime.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: StormRider

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: eskimospy


This is incorrect. Well, technically police can ASK for whatever they want, but you are not required to give ID to the police. The only time they can compel you to give ID is if they have reasonable cause to believe that a crime has been committed, or is about to be committed. You know as well as I do that 'standing in front of Home Depot' is not going to cut it. Furthermore they can tell the cops to fuck off if they ask them about their tax returns.

I'm also not sure how the cops would set up a sting to report undeclared wages done by the workers, as they aren't compelled to disclose their wages to anyone but the IRS and below a certain point (which they are probably at) unreported income is only subject to fines, not arrest.

I thought being in this country illegally was a crime?

There are a lot of things that are a "crime". I'm pretty sure that if someone was "out to get you" they could find something you've done in the past to charge you with a crime of some sort.

His point was that the police needed to be investigating a crime to ask for ID. I responded that being in this country illegally is a crime.

"The only time they can compel you to give ID is if they have reasonable cause to believe that a crime has been committed"

The color of your skin and the language you speak is not enough to believe that it is reasonable that someone is a criminal. How are the cops supposed to justify it?

If you think that such a thing is enough, do you also think that cops should be infiltrating homes in a college town just because there is a party in order to search for pot or underage drinkers?

Where is the line drawn?

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: StormRider

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: eskimospy


This is incorrect. Well, technically police can ASK for whatever they want, but you are not required to give ID to the police. The only time they can compel you to give ID is if they have reasonable cause to believe that a crime has been committed, or is about to be committed. You know as well as I do that 'standing in front of Home Depot' is not going to cut it. Furthermore they can tell the cops to fuck off if they ask them about their tax returns.

I'm also not sure how the cops would set up a sting to report undeclared wages done by the workers, as they aren't compelled to disclose their wages to anyone but the IRS and below a certain point (which they are probably at) unreported income is only subject to fines, not arrest.

I thought being in this country illegally was a crime?

There are a lot of things that are a "crime". I'm pretty sure that if someone was "out to get you" they could find something you've done in the past to charge you with a crime of some sort.

His point was that the police needed to be investigating a crime to ask for ID. I responded that being in this country illegally is a crime.

"The only time they can compel you to give ID is if they have reasonable cause to believe that a crime has been committed"

The color of your skin and the language you speak is not enough to believe that it is reasonable that someone is a criminal. How are the cops supposed to justify it?

It's called "loitering".

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

It's called "loitering".

Good luck with that. Since this is such a good idea, please pass along your 'ID check and arrest of all illegal immigrants by using loitering as probable cause' plan to the appropriate law enforcement groups. When they are done laughing at you, come back and tell us about your experience.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

It's called "loitering".

Good luck with that. Since this is such a good idea, please pass along your 'ID check and arrest of all illegal immigrants by using loitering as probable cause' plan to the appropriate law enforcement groups. When they are done laughing at you, come back and tell us about your experience.

You dont need probable cause, just "reasonable suspicion." Big difference.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

It's called "loitering".

Good luck with that. Since this is such a good idea, please pass along your 'ID check and arrest of all illegal immigrants by using loitering as probable cause' plan to the appropriate law enforcement groups. When they are done laughing at you, come back and tell us about your experience.

You dont need probable cause, just "reasonable suspicion." Big difference.

You're right. My suggestion remains... please go alert your local law enforcement to this. You know as well as I do that they will gently pat you on the head and tell you to go home.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: Drakkon

Originally posted by: shinerburke
We should be rounding their asses up every day and shipping them back to wherever it is they came from.

Problem with that is they just come back. Every day i drive by a spot in town that is known for illegals. They stand on the side of the street waiting for work. The cops know it and the public knows it. What do they do about it? Not a darn thing because the cops know they will just be back the next day and the next day.

.

we could shoot them

Or pay a bounty. $20.00 per set of ears.

Can I subscribe to your newsletters?



IMO, there's never a BAD time to START deporting illegal immigrants, only a BAD time to STOP.