Would you buy 6850k, if you already have 980x?

[Boze]

Yeah it is their problem, just like with Crysis 1, and RO2, Rising Storm. Gaming wise there is nothing I haven't come across to warrant a platform upgrade. Even CS:GO is usually > 250fps

Lemme explain something to you hoss... unless you, personally, can force someone to change their underperforming product, its your problem.

You can hand wring and cry and whine about it, but unless they're compelled to change it, its your problem.

DOOM crashes for some reason on my machine. I have no idea why. It doesn't even produce an error log. It just up and crashes on startup. Bethesda already has my $38 and I can't get a refund. So its my problem until its no longer my problem.

I can't force their programmers to sit at their desks until its working, so its my problem.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Lemme explain something to you hoss... unless you, personally, can force someone to change their underperforming product, its your problem.

You can hand wring and cry and whine about it, but unless they're compelled to change it, its your problem.

DOOM crashes for some reason on my machine. I have no idea why. It doesn't even produce an error log. It just up and crashes on startup. Bethesda already has my $38 and I can't get a refund. So its my problem until its no longer my problem.

I can't force their programmers to sit at their desks until its working, so its my problem.

Ok, son. The only thing that transpires is currency. You can trash talk the company from the issue and if it persists with others it will be their problem. While not all issues arise and some scenarios don't cause others issues, just leave the game. And in the end we are out the money.

 

[2is]

Ok, son. The only thing that transpires is currency. You can trash talk the company from the issue and if it persists with others it will be their problem. While not all issues arise and some scenarios don't cause others issues, just leave the game. And in the end we are out the money.

All this translates to is "it's my problem until it's not"

 

[YBS1]

Just to add to what a few have said in here, unless you have things that really benefit from a 6 or 8 core CPU, going from a 980X to even the 4 core 6700K will be a massive step. You likely won't even lose anything in apps that can benefit from the additional cores (and maybe will even gain unless your 980X is uber-clocked). I thought I'd play around with my new 6700K to see how it stacked up to my old X5670 and 3930K in something that can use additional cores. I already knew it came within a hair of even the highest clocked Westmeres from the Cinebench R11.5 I ran the other day, (6700K@4.8 11.63 vs. X5670@4.95 12.33) that 4.95Ghz run was right on the ragged edge BTW, very few Westmeres can even sniff near 4.95GHz. Looking to use a more modern bench that could take advantage of a Skylake, I decided to try the Handbrake bench. Unfortunately I never bothered to run Handbrake on my X5670, but I had ran it on my 3930K before. At just 4.6GHz it got within reasonable striking distance of the 3930K at 5.1GHz.....let that sink in, a 4.6Ghz 4-core nearly matching a 5.1GHz 6 core. My 3930K is listed in the Handbrake thread at 450fps, the 6700K@4.6 did 390fps. I can assure you the 3930K would handily beat my old X5670 in that bench. Now this wasn't completely scientific, I was using the latest version for the 6700K run and I had used the svn5784 nightly build in that 3930K run so the 3930K would probably gain a few frames from the latest version, but still. I would be really surprised if the typical speed overclocked X58 six-core could beat this 6700K in anything, even when it can take advantage of the 6 cores.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

All this translates to is "it's my problem until it's not"

You're still stuck on if a game runs over 100fps than it's not saying anything, huh? lol ok. Well then why would I upgrade?

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

11.70 is ~ 4.6Ghz Westermere which is the same as your OC'd 6700K results. What Cinebench 11.5 is a good measure of is beyond me..

 

[Arachnotronic]

DOOM crashes for some reason on my machine. I have no idea why. It doesn't even produce an error log. It just up and crashes on startup. Bethesda already has my $38 and I can't get a refund. So its my problem until its no longer my problem.

A little OT, but I was actually getting regular crashes-to-desktop with Doom as well. It turns out that Doom will push your CPU in ways that other games/software might not. In my case, I had to apply additional voltage or reduce my overclock in order to put an end to the issue.

I recommend setting your CPU/memory to stock and giving the game a shot.

Doom also hates SLI with a passion, so in your NVIDIA control panel set Doom to use a single GPU only. I found that SLI causes severe performance degradation in the game.

 

[YBS1]

11.70 is ~ 4.6Ghz Westermere which is the same as your OC'd 6700K results. What Cinebench 11.5 is a good measure of is beyond me..

That was kind of the point which I was making. Even when an application can take advantage of the additional cores, a four core Skylake will match an X58 six core, and will simply curb stomp one in anything that doesn't take advantage of more than four cores. You comment dismissively about Cinebench as if it's irrelevant, when we both know it's simply a measurement of CPU performance. Yet you don't mention Handbrake as we all know exactly what it's a good measure of. Again, CPU performance, specifically encoding.

 

[StrangerGuy]

Just to add to what a few have said in here, unless you have things that really benefit from a 6 or 8 core CPU, going from a 980X to even the 4 core 6700K will be a massive step. You likely won't even lose anything in apps that can benefit from the additional cores (and maybe will even gain unless your 980X is uber-clocked). I thought I'd play around with my new 6700K to see how it stacked up to my old X5670 and 3930K in something that can use additional cores. I already knew it came within a hair of even the highest clocked Westmeres from the Cinebench R11.5 I ran the other day, (6700K@4.8 11.63 vs. X5670@4.95 12.33) that 4.95Ghz run was right on the ragged edge BTW, very few Westmeres can even sniff near 4.95GHz. Looking to use a more modern bench that could take advantage of a Skylake, I decided to try the Handbrake bench. Unfortunately I never bothered to run Handbrake on my X5670, but I had ran it on my 3930K before. At just 4.6GHz it got within reasonable striking distance of the 3930K at 5.1GHz.....let that sink in, a 4.6Ghz 4-core nearly matching a 5.1GHz 6 core. My 3930K is listed in the Handbrake thread at 450fps, the 6700K@4.6 did 390fps. I can assure you the 3930K would handily beat my old X5670 in that bench. Now this wasn't completely scientific, I was using the latest version for the 6700K run and I had used the svn5784 nightly build in that 3930K run so the 3930K would probably gain a few frames from the latest version, but still. I would be really surprised if the typical speed overclocked X58 six-core could beat this 6700K in anything, even when it can take advantage of the 6 cores.

Funny, isn't it. The Xbitlabs charts posted by RS was made 5 years ago and we still have X58 diehards asking whether their CPUs are still viable for gaming.

 

[2is]

You're still stuck on if a game runs over 100fps than it's not saying anything, huh? lol ok. Well then why would I upgrade?

The only thing stuck here is the notion that if a game doesn't perform well in your system it's the games problem. That's comedic to say the least.

 

[mnewsham]

11.70 is ~ 4.6Ghz Westermere which is the same as your OC'd 6700K results. What Cinebench 11.5 is a good measure of is beyond me..

My 5820k scores 14.99 at 4.7GHz in R11.5

Obviously IPC improvements are decent enough to matter if the 6 core westmere at 4.6GHz is ~40% slower than the 5820k at 4.7GHz. Both are 6 core 12 thread CPUs.

 

[Arachnotronic]

My 5820k scores 14.99 at 4.7GHz in R11.5

Obviously IPC improvements are decent enough to matter if the 6 core westmere at 4.6GHz is ~40% slower than the 5820k at 4.7GHz. Both are 6 core 12 thread CPUs.

The CPU cores have higher IPC and the actual on-chip interconnect fabric as well as the memory controller are much improved. Although the improvements generation on generation might not be compelling, those improvements really add up over multiple generations.

Westmere is based on a CPU architecture that launched in 2008, Intel CPUs have gotten a lot better since then.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

The only thing stuck here is the notion that if a game doesn't perform well in your system it's the games problem. That's comedic to say the least.

lol, And why would I upgrade if my system isn't hindering my performance?

 

[mnewsham]

lol, And why would I upgrade if my system isn't hindering my performance?

>game doesnt run well on my system
>it's the games fault not my hardware
>why should I upgrade if my hardware isn't hindering performance?

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

>game doesnt run well on my system
>it's the games fault not my hardware
>why should I upgrade if my hardware isn't hindering performance?

Crysis never ran good on any system

Rising Storm runs horrible with guys that have 3770K's and 1080 GTX's and 980Tis. So as far as my hardware it isn't the issue. You take the same engine with RO2, Heroes of Stalingrad and the game runs great. Same engine, same type of game-play.

Two examples of un-optimized coding.

My performance isn't isolated by how well the game runs.

 

[2is]

lol, And why would I upgrade if my system isn't hindering my performance?

I think you need to read my posts again. Never once did I say you should upgrade if your performance isn't being hindered.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

I think you need to read my posts again. Never once did I say you should upgrade if your performance isn't being hindered.

That was my original point but you started splitting hairs about all you need is 100fps and that i'm not saying alot. "That's all UT4 needs to run at 100+ fps so that isn't saying a whole lot lol"

If some people are good at a game or several games then it is what it is. Some people fall under the notion that better hardware will improve their scoring.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

That was kind of the point which I was making. Even when an application can take advantage of the additional cores, a four core Skylake will match an X58 six core, and will simply curb stomp one in anything that doesn't take advantage of more than four cores. You comment dismissively about Cinebench as if it's irrelevant, when we both know it's simply a measurement of CPU performance. Yet you don't mention Handbrake as we all know exactly what it's a good measure of. Again, CPU performance, specifically encoding.

The last time I used handbrake was over several years ago and from what I can recall it was briefly (less than a week?) and I've never paid attention to it after that. And I wasn't using it for benching my cpu

As far as cb 11.5 all I'm saying is that they can match each other in scoring but where does an old westmere out shine Skylake in real world? It simply cannot. All it does it hint at DX12 possibilities.

 

[2is]

That was my original point but you started splitting hairs about all you need is 100fps and that i'm not saying alot. "That's all UT4 needs to run at 100+ fps so that isn't saying a whole lot lol"

If some people are good at a game or several games then it is what it is. Some people fall under the notion that better hardware will improve their scoring.

You obviously misinterpreted what I said. Point blank, if a game you want to play doesn't perform the way you want it, it's your problem. I hope that's clear and to the point enough for you.

 

[Timmah!]

Thank you all for your responses.

Just to explain few things regarding my current situation, my motivation and needs....

I am aware the current i7 line-up is quite more powerful compared to the first i7 iteration - my CPU. Thats why i am considering upgrading in the first place.

I am not getting 4-core Skylake, even if it made most sense. After having six-core CPU for last 6 years, it would feel like a step-down - even if it technically is not, certainly not compared to 980x. Anyway, six-core for me. And since i dont want 8-core for 1000, if there is still 10-core, which is out of my league, i just settle for 6-core again. I checked Cinebench 11.5 scores and stock 6850k gets 13 points/OC to 4400 15...thats quite an upgrade to 980x, which gets 9,5 at the clocks i roll (3,78GHz)....and yeah, given my rendering background, i rate Cinebench as a CPU benchmark.

I dont really need it. What i need is new GPU - thats why i am going for 1080 or 2. I am going to use those for some archviz, so they are going to earn me some money and pay themselves back. Actually, i already saved some money for them this way.
I would love me some 1080Ti, but i dont want to wait another half year or probably even more. Already waited a year since last summer, when my previous GPU broke.

So going for a new CPU and mobo is mainly about enthusiasm for a new HW and pleasing myself. I cant really justify it rationally. I do the rendering with GPUs and as far as games go, i game nowadays only here and there and lets be honest, my current CPU is just fine for all the current games, including CPU intensive games like Ashes of Singularity. The GPUs are way more important for gaming anyway. And really, the games i probably played most this year, were Call of Duty: Black Ops from 2010, The Crew, which runs ok even with my current setup including mighty GTX580 and then game called Infinite Space: Sea of Stars, which would probably run on mobile phone.


But i still want to do it. There is one more thing to consider... i could wait another year or 2 and save for some proper upgrade (8,10,12 cores) in the future...but given the fact i am getting the GPUs now, at that point those will be obsolete again. So when i upgrade CPU at that point, still wont be completely satisfied cause of GPUs. And no, selling them and buying new by then its not an option. This is not big and rich country, where i live, so there ever wont be zillion of people lined up to buy my used HW at (for my) acceptable price.

Now the question is, which CPU? I read a bit, and it seems Broadwell -E dont OC as well as Haswell-E...so even 5820k/5930k might actually be options? I am leaning toward 6850k, since i rather new stuff and those 40 PCI-E links (and potentially higher binned CPU, so more likely to ask for less voltage when OCing?), even if RS says otherwise...if i go for it, I can spend those 150 EUROs premium... anyway, what do you think are the chances of 6850k OC to 4400? Anyone with any experience with these particular chips?

BTW, are these Broadwell six-cores cut-down parts from 8/10core, or native six-cores like my 980x? Out of curiosity, i could not find that info anywhere.

If i went for it, i actually consider buying AiO waterpump cooler. Which one would you recommend? Ideally not too expensive. I looked at Corsair Cooling Hydro Series H75 - is that good one? Another question is, will THIS and 2 1080s with their own AiO coolers (Evga Hybrid, MSI Seahawk) fit into my case, which is Fractal Design R2?

Finally, if i change mobo and CPU, but keep my disks, would the computer work or will Windows reinstall be needed? I had Win7 OEM, which i recently upgraded to W10.

Aww, bit of a litany. Sorry for that. Looking forward to your further advices.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

I think your main criteria will be the 40 pcie lanes. Start from there and choose your parts

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

I would piece together a loop instead. Swiftech has an all in one radiator, pump, and res. Link. This way you can choose your own block. The HK 3.0 is a very very good block. I think it was the best 4-5yrs ago. I use one.

Here is a pic of my setup. Keeps my W3690 under 70*c in 90*f ambients running IBT.

 

[24601]

A little OT, but I was actually getting regular crashes-to-desktop with Doom as well. It turns out that Doom will push your CPU in ways that other games/software might not. In my case, I had to apply additional voltage or reduce my overclock in order to put an end to the issue.

I recommend setting your CPU/memory to stock and giving the game a shot.

Doom also hates SLI with a passion, so in your NVIDIA control panel set Doom to use a single GPU only. I found that SLI causes severe performance degradation in the game.

This is what happens when people don't properly test their overclocks.

Crysis 3 and well programmed DX12 games will destroy people's illusions about "it's stable because I say it's stable".

 

[Timmah!]

Shameless bump with quick question>

do you think that 6850k is better binned than 6800k? In other words its capable of higher clocks, or at least same top clocks at lesser voltage?

Per Tom´s HW review, this is the case, 6850k requiring just about 1,2V for 4,4Ghz instead of 1,4V like 6800K....even though neither could be stable at 4,5GHz.... do you think its just a luck of a draw? Or its common theme?

Additionally, i checked the product review on Newegg for 6850k, there are currently just 6 of them, but out of those 3 claim OC to 4,4GHz....

1080 Seahawk appeared today on stock at my reseller, so my decision to choose on my next build is closing... i decided to go with BW-E instead of Haswell-E, the only question now is which 6-core. If i am more likely to OC it higher with the more expensive one, 6850k it is.

 

[mnewsham]

do you think that 6850k is better binned than 6800k? In other words its capable of higher clocks, or at least same top clocks at lesser voltage?

Highly unlikely it will matter, it's luck of the draw. You're just as likely to get a good 6800k as you are a 6850k. There will be good silicon and bad silicon for both. and since their stock clocks are both so conservative it's not like they are actually bothering to bin them, there would be little reason to.