Would you buy a GM if...

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puffpio

Golden Member
Dec 21, 1999
1,664
0
0
Corvette
Corvette Z06
Saab 9-2X
Saab 9-3
Saab 9-5

That's about the only cars I would buy
 

CFster

Golden Member
Oct 16, 1999
1,903
0
76
Originally posted by: ysperalda

And you expect us to take you seriously when you state that domestic car handles just come off?

Yes.

We keep the local GM dealers very busy with warranty work.

 

codegrinder

Member
Apr 21, 2005
179
1
81
bahhh bahhhh Goat for me! id do it in a heart beat. I don?t care if its that popular or not. f what other people think, do what you want to do. If you?re in the financial position to buy a car and want it then do it, just dont buy something because you can get 2500 off it.
 

fintheman

Member
Nov 7, 2004
97
0
0
Never had a problem with GM and I think Saturns are pretty good cars, as my family has had SEVERAL go over 250k miles.

 

JungleMan1

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2002
1,321
0
0
Originally posted by: CFster
See my reply two posts above, then realize that I could never take you seriously when you say "GM makes excellent products".

JD Power tests I don't take seriously either - I believe their results are biased. Reason being that a lot of domestic car buyers are life long buyers, and drive Oldsmobile's like their fathers did. They honestly believe it's normal to bring their car into the dealer several times a year for repairs and don't know any better vs. the Honda owner who just has to do oil changes and brakes. Most who end up making the transition are amazed.

Like I said above, I fix 'em, and see all manner of ridiculous problems with brand new GMs (and other domestics for that matter).
One of us in this conversation actually owns and uses domestic vehicles every day, and it isn't you, so I think you need to stop talking.

And JD Power is based on whether someone's daddy drove an Oldsmobile? Wow, I always thought it was based on objective PP100 statitics. I guess they must be biased against the Japanese as well, since Chevy and Toyota took 15 of the 18 awards, and Ford taking two more. Funny that the all-singing, all-dancing Honda didn't even make the article...

I guess they must have been biased half the time, and truthful the other half of the time, right? :roll:
http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2005069

I also call shens on the door handles thing.
 

HomeAppraiser

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2005
2,562
1
0
I would not by a GM. When I worked for the government we had GM and Fords in the fleet. Our boss would not let us take the GM cars out of the county because of the high break down rate! The Chevys were literally falling apart. The Fords were ok. The boss finally ordered a Subaru for his goverment car. I gave Dodge a chance, but my 1997 Neon barely outlasted the payments. My 2003 Toyota was built in the USA. It's Toyota and Honda from now on and I am not Asian.
 

VIAN

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2003
6,575
1
0
No, they're gas guzzlers and... 2500 just isn't all that much money.

I'm just a 4-banger guy.
 

CFster

Golden Member
Oct 16, 1999
1,903
0
76
Originally posted by: JungleMan1
One of us in this conversation actually owns and uses domestic vehicles every day, and it isn't you, so I think you need to stop talking.

Yes, and the other one is responsible for a fleet of over a hundred domestic vehicles every day, and witnesses tens of thousands of them go through his business every year. I also deal with new and used car dealers on a daily basis. I believe I'm more qualified to make an educated observation on this subject than you, or most likely anybody you know.

And JD Power is based on whether someone's daddy drove an Oldsmobile? Wow, I always thought it was based on objective PP100 statitics. I guess they must be biased against the Japanese as well, since Chevy and Toyota took 15 of the 18 awards, and Ford taking two more. Funny that the all-singing, all-dancing Honda didn't even make the article...

Statistic based on consumer reviews. See my earlier post. I stand by what I said.

I guess they must have been biased half the time, and truthful the other half of the time, right? :roll:

Yes, they are biased domestic car buyers half the time, and enlightened foreign car owners the rest.

I also call shens on the door handles thing.

Denial is the first step. Anger will come next, then acceptance.

 

JungleMan1

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2002
1,321
0
0
OK man, let's take the blurb from JD Power's site:

IQS is a model-level study. It measures 135 attributes across nine categories, including ride/handling/braking, engine and transmission, and a broad range of quality problems symptoms reported by vehicle owners.

The 2005 Initial Quality Study is based on responses from more than 62,000 purchasers and lessees of new 2005 model-year cars and trucks, who were surveyed after 90 days of ownership. This industry benchmark study for new-vehicle initial quality is now in its 19th year.

So according to your theory, all the domestic buyers who bought Ford and GM vehicles are deliberately lying about problems on their vehicles when surveyed about, not what their opinion of the vehicle is, but how many times they've taken it in and for what...this of course being because they are loyal to the manufacturer. Yet all the import buyers are being completely truthful...

Hell man, since the JD Power results are so easily swayed, why don't all the biased domestic guys just take all 18 of the Initial Quality awards while they're at it? Why stop at 7? All they gotta do is lie and say "Yeah, we had 0 problems with this vehicle" and bam, there you go.

Right :roll:
 

TNM93

Senior member
Aug 13, 2005
965
0
0
Originally posted by: JungleMan1
Originally posted by: CFster
See my reply two posts above, then realize that I could never take you seriously when you say "GM makes excellent products".

JD Power tests I don't take seriously either - I believe their results are biased. Reason being that a lot of domestic car buyers are life long buyers, and drive Oldsmobile's like their fathers did. They honestly believe it's normal to bring their car into the dealer several times a year for repairs and don't know any better vs. the Honda owner who just has to do oil changes and brakes. Most who end up making the transition are amazed.

Like I said above, I fix 'em, and see all manner of ridiculous problems with brand new GMs (and other domestics for that matter).
One of us in this conversation actually owns and uses domestic vehicles every day, and it isn't you, so I think you need to stop talking.

And JD Power is based on whether someone's daddy drove an Oldsmobile? Wow, I always thought it was based on objective PP100 statitics. I guess they must be biased against the Japanese as well, since Chevy and Toyota took 15 of the 18 awards, and Ford taking two more. Funny that the all-singing, all-dancing Honda didn't even make the article...

I guess they must have been biased half the time, and truthful the other half of the time, right? :roll:
http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2005069

I also call shens on the door handles thing.


Get with the program. Didn't you know anything American made or owned sucks? :roll:
 

SparkyJJO

Lifer
May 16, 2002
13,357
7
81
yeh I'd buy one, I'm a gm guy What model I'm not sure, depends on what you want to do with it (haul stuff or have passenger space or just have a hot ride)
 

The Pentium Guy

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2005
4,327
1
0
I'd still rather buy a Civic for cheap...much more dependable and it'll last you longer too. Less maintenance pays off the $2500 probably.
 

CFster

Golden Member
Oct 16, 1999
1,903
0
76
Originally posted by: JungleMan1
So according to your theory, all the domestic buyers who bought Ford and GM vehicles are deliberately lying about problems on their vehicles when surveyed about, not what their opinion of the vehicle is, but how many times they've taken it in and for what...this of course being because they are loyal to the manufacturer.

I gave you my theory about JD Power - it's an opinion at best, backed up by no hard evidence at all. I feel that like any other survey, it can be biased. I really hold no faith in it whatsoever, as I witness differently on a daily basis. Agree with me or not, I don't care.

I can tell you that when I call the local GM dealer for parts for one of the many GM cars in my shop, they have 7 guys working the parts counter. The Honda dealership has 2. I can tell you that the last time I as at that GM dealership, they had twenty bays going in the service dept - cars with engines and transmissions out, major repairs. When I was at the local Honda dealership, they had 19 out of 20 bays going with routine services - oil changes and brakes. Bay 20 was doing a transmission - the lady had run over a parking lot block. Now that the rebates are fizzling, they domestics can thank their lucky stars their vehicles are unreliable, that they have the backend (service) to fall back on, or a lot of dealerships would be going under. I can tell you that we get new Chevy trucks on our lot with a Chevy emblem on one side, and a GMC emblem on the other. I can tell you that at least twice in the past 10 years, we've assisted GM and Chrysler in repainting hudreds of vehicles. GM had a problem with their grey paint in the early 90s, and about 5 years ago we repainted a least a 100 red Dodge trucks - we had to take the entire bodies down to the bare metal. I can tell you that GM has so many recalls, that they send a tech TO OUR SHOP to do them on site. We have too many cars to move to them, it's just easier.

Honda has it's recalls, yes. Most notably the recent recall of certain Accords for transmission problems - they actually made the transmission case out of spec, and would need replacement. However, they take care of their customers and extended the warranties on them. On the flip side of that is a company such as GM, which calls engine knocks in their truck V8's and Caddy Northstar's "normal", and wont do a damned thing about it. They also say the same thing about clunking rear differentials in their trucks.

I agree that a large part of the reason for lagging domestic sales (cars anyway) are due to a preconceived notion that they're unreliable. GM even released a commercial a few years ago (the idiots) actually ADMITTING their previous cars were unreliable, and come buy a new one, they're so much better. Didn't help.

On my end, I haven't really seen an improvement in quality. Perhaps they don't break as much as they used too, but the same goes for everything else - the Japanese improve their design and manufacturing processes regularly as well. IMO, GM, Mopars and Fords still break much more often than their asian counterparts.

I've got nothing against American built cars - American autoworkers build Hondas and Toyotas too. My gripe is with the corporate end. They've screwed the pooch so bad that now 18% of every vehicle goes to union benefits. They have no choice but to make them cheaply.



 

HomeAppraiser

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2005
2,562
1
0
JD Power Initial Quality Study IS biased because it is taken during the owners "honeymoon period" with the car. For example, if you bought a Chrysler 300 for the cool looks, Magnum engine and American brand, then you are less likely to trash it on paper three months later for any minor defaults. Long term test results are more accurate. Door handles falling off, you bet ya. When I was a teenager my father and I had to replace all of our Dodge door handles. Entering Dukes of Hazard style got old after awhile.
 

EatSpam

Diamond Member
May 1, 2005
6,423
0
0
Originally posted by: CFster
See my reply two posts above, then realize that I could never take you seriously when you say "GM makes excellent products".

JD Power tests I don't take seriously either - I believe their results are biased. Reason being that a lot of domestic car buyers are life long buyers, and drive Oldsmobile's like their fathers did. They honestly believe it's normal to bring their car into the dealer several times a year for repairs and don't know any better vs. the Honda owner who just has to do oil changes and brakes. Most who end up making the transition are amazed.

Like I said above, I fix 'em, and see all manner of ridiculous problems with brand new GMs (and other domestics for that matter).

I could have sworn that my Chevy Cavalier and Saturn Ion were made by GM and all I had/have to do was oil changes. Guess someone else is taking it into the shop and not telling me!
 

EatSpam

Diamond Member
May 1, 2005
6,423
0
0
Originally posted by: CFster
Honda has it's recalls, yes. Most notably the recent recall of certain Accords for transmission problems - they actually made the transmission case out of spec, and would need replacement. However, they take care of their customers and extended the warranties on them. On the flip side of that is a company such as GM, which calls engine knocks in their truck V8's and Caddy Northstar's "normal", and wont do a damned thing about it. They also say the same thing about clunking rear differentials in their trucks.

My wife's Saturn Ion has a CVT transmission in it. GM discovered potential for problems so they extended the tranny warranty to 5 years, free of charge. :thumbsup: I had a recall take a little long on my Ion Redline, they hooked me up with a rental, free of charge. GM always has taken care of me. But maybe I imagined it, since you say they're so horrible.
 

EatSpam

Diamond Member
May 1, 2005
6,423
0
0
Originally posted by: VIAN
No, they're gas guzzlers and... 2500 just isn't all that much money.

I'm just a 4-banger guy.

My GM car has a 4 cylinder engine.
 

Pakman

Senior member
Nov 30, 2000
807
0
71
If I really wanted to buy a GM car, I would just buy a year old used car with low miles and pay half the price... hehe... I bought a Cavalier new back in 93 and the value of the vehicle took a nose dive like no other. There is a reason why GM is offering all these rebates. It's either because customer's have been burned by them in the past, or people just don't find the cars attractive. They always seem to be one step behind the current car trends. And it's still true even though they have come a long way. Hyundai has come a long way as well. I think their new Sonata looks pretty sharp.
 

RossMAN

Grand Nagus
Feb 24, 2000
78,794
266
116
Saturn or Chevy Malibu - MAYBE

Most likely "hell no" I'd rather buy a Hyundai.
 
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