Would you do it?

[Chrono]

if that is true then... would emotion also come to play with the androids?

 

[Ornery]

They don't even have to be androids to pursue this thought. There could be a method to clone you, flesh and blood, with every last physical detail perfectly in place, then your thoughts all transferred over via some scientific method. So, there's an identical 'you' sitting there. You could clone it and copy the thoughts to the clone over and over for infinite time. Would you do it?

I would argue that the new clone, even with all your thoughts passed on to it, would still not be 'you'. It would have it's own perception of the world, and it's own self. So sure, I'd do it, but it still wouldn't be me. Call it spirit, call it soul, call it your own being, the id or whatever the hell you want, but 'you' won't be copied in a physical manner.

 

[Migroo]

I just feel we are all supposed to die sometime, hence my negative vote.

 

[Grminalac]

It appears that throughout history the big losers have always been the people saying "it can never be done". Artificial intelligence will happen. People will be able to save thoughts and even copies of themselves. We will not live to see this occur but it will happen and is possible, because we are and what is possible can be duplicated, can be made if enough resources are applied. The question of is this "me" is a foolish question. Ask yourself if you are the same person you were at 3 years old? Of course you are not, that person is dead. That "me" no longer exists. You Live and die as your memories fade away. Is the person with alzheimers the same person they were when they were 40, 50, even 10? No, they are not. True immortality is the ability to remember everything as well as live forever.

 

[Ornery]

That other 'me' is going to have experiences and you will continue to have your own experiences. You will NEVER be the clone. It will be it's own self. 'You' will not be immortal, though the clone/android may live forever. Bummer, eh?

 

[BeauJangles]

The andriod would still not be me. It would not have a soul. (No I am not religious, but I believe everything living has a soul).

 

[Ornery]

"I believe everything living has a soul..."

...except Osama bin Laden

 

[PistachioByAzul]

Death is a part of nature. There are many cultures that actually celebrate death. The act of trying to escape death is, first of all, egotistical. But then if you consider, what would life be like without limitations as incentives? Then looking at the widespread implications such as overpopulation, the way societies would to be structured around immortals, it's all bad, it just doesn't work.

The whole notion is a testament to human arrogance. It represents a complete lack of foresight.

 

[Elledan]

<<

<< After the artificial neural network has been initialized, you'll watch yourself sitting or lying . From that point on, you'll probably trouble accepting that that person you see is yourself, that the body you see was once your own body.

>>



That is only your opinion, and has yet to be proven. It may behave like me, it may look like me (or it may look like a giant toaster but that's beside the point), and it may think its me, but who's to say that it really is me? Read my above post, too. >>

Again, do the words 'hypothical question' ring a bell?

I'm not saying that this method is even feasible, it probably isn't, but that doesn't take away that we might one day be faced with such a situation.

 

[Elledan]

<< if that is true then... would emotion also come to play with the androids? >>

Emotions are a part of a neural network, so yes, the emotions would be transferred too.

 

[Elledan]

<< It appears that throughout history the big losers have always been the people saying "it can never be done". Artificial intelligence will happen. People will be able to save thoughts and even copies of themselves. We will not live to see this occur but it will happen and is possible, because we are and what is possible can be duplicated, can be made if enough resources are applied. The question of is this "me" is a foolish question. Ask yourself if you are the same person you were at 3 years old? Of course you are not, that person is dead. That "me" no longer exists. You Live and die as your memories fade away. Is the person with alzheimers the same person they were when they were 40, 50, even 10? No, they are not. True immortality is the ability to remember everything as well as live forever. >>

Thank you. A most insightful post

 

[Elledan]

<<

<< Does anything beyond the functions of the nerve cells really matter? No. >>



Dude, you are really something! Did the great Elledan cook up this conclusion through years of research into the secrets of the human mind? Just to throw your words right back at you... How do you know that only the nerve cells matter? Give us some proof! Evidence! Facts! Links! Something! Without that you are simply making a fool of yourself if you keep repeating, "It is proven blah blah blah". You have no right to refute opposing theories unless you have evidence to support yours. >>

Please stop making a fool of yourself.

Do I really have to add a disclaimer to every single post in this thread that every 'fact' and 'theory' presented by science is to be accompanied with the sentence 'As far as we know.'?!

There's no evidence against the statement you objected against, unless you've to tell us something. Do you have new evidence?



<<

<< To answer the question, no way!!! I much prefer my jar of clay!!! >>




<< Why? >>



Oooh, this one's really gonna get you going... Because my body is simply an earthly vessel for my soul, when it dies I will receive a better, newer body that will last forever in heaven. A copy of my body would simply be an empty shell. It would not be me! >>


I say that there is no soul. Now try to refute this statement without using metaphysical stuff.
I say that after death there's no heaven or hell. Again, try to refute this statement.

Good luck.


<<

<< Perhaps you didn't know it yet, but I've a hard time lowering myself to the level of an idiot.

I don't call someone closed-minded without good reason. >>



Oh... Hang on... Maybe I am an idiot too... And if that is the case I definitely should not be posting in this thread because poor Elledan will have to lower himself to my level.

I am amazed at how easy it is to make you reveal your true self - in fact you do not even try to hide how conceited and stubborn you are. Spewing words like "idiot" and "closed-minded" at anyone and everyone. Have a good chat with yourself! I will leave you to it! >>

Have it your way.

 

[Elledan]

<< Death is a part of nature. There are many cultures that actually celebrate death. The act of trying to escape death is, first of all, egotistical. But then if you consider, what would life be like without limitations as incentives? Then looking at the widespread implications such as overpopulation, the way societies would to be structured around immortals, it's all bad, it just doesn't work.

The whole notion is a testament to human arrogance. It represents a complete lack of foresight. >>

Yet, no matter what you think, a situation like this will become reality, somewhere, sometime. It's inevitable.

And lack of foresight? I wouldn't be so sure of that.

 

[Elledan]

<< That other 'me' is going to have experiences and you will continue to have your own experiences. You will NEVER be the clone. It will be it's own self. 'You' will not be immortal, though the clone/android may live forever. Bummer, eh? >>


The biological being will be you.
The artificial being will be you.

That's the whole point of this thread: that what we call 'ourself', our personality and memories, isn't undividable.

I asked an hypothetical question. The last thing you should do is try to point out why it would or would not work.

 

[Ornery]

...that what we call 'ourself', our personality and memories, isn't undividable.

I asked an hypothetical question. The last thing you should do is try to point out why it would or would not work."

The question is, "would you do it?" I said simply, yes. Big deal. But there wouldn't be much point, since it will not be 'you' that continues living. Even if your 'self' is dividable, once it's divided, it ain't 'you' anymore. It's its own self.

Now, if you want to ask if you wouldn't mind having everything, including your 'self' transfered to an immortal body I could go along with that, but your 'id' can't be copied, IMO.

 

[Elledan]

<< (..) but your 'id' can't be copied, IMO. And you state this based on what evidence?

 

[Ornery]

It's MY opinion. Why don't cells in your body have their own perspective that you're aware of? They're made from the same DNA as the rest of you. They came ultimately from a single cell, yet you have only one 'you'. It's going to keep coming back to this argument no matter what you propose. You might as well start over and ask if there will ever be a time that you can be aware from two different bodies, perspectives or locations.

 

[JupiterJones]

*tap* *tap* *tap* wiating for all the fundamentalists who want to claim the "soul" is intrinsic to your flesh without any proof.

Ok...the soul is intrinsic to your flesh. If man creates an artificial construct (w/o depending on biological processes) then the replicate will not be flesh, will possess no soul and no spirit. The replicate will not bear God's image.

I would do it. I do not see any moral problems with this process. If fact, what this would actually be is the programming of a complicated computer to be much like me. I think that I would enjoy having another me around.

Don

 

[Elledan]

<< It's MY opinion. Why don't cells in your body have their own perspective that you're aware of? >>

The Human body is a collection of many smaller parts. Together they're more than the sum of their parts.


<< They're made from the same DNA as the rest of you. >>

They are 'you'.


<< They came ultimately from a single cell, yet you have only one 'you'. >>

One fertilized egg will develop into a single being. This does not deny the possibility that this being is limited to an existance in a single body.


<< It's going to keep coming back to this argument no matter what you propose. You might as well start over and ask if there will ever be a time that you can be aware from two different bodies, perspectives or locations. >>

Don't be foolish.

 

[Ornery]

"Don't be foolish"

Hah! You beat me to it! You're the one proposing that you can exist in two different bodies, not me!

 

[Elledan]

<< "Don't be foolish"

Hah! You beat me to it! You're the one proposing that you can exist in two different bodies, not me! >>

*sigh*

Apparently you understand absolutely nothing of the explanation in my first post.

Let me spell it out once more:

- you're happily living in your biological body.
- during the procedure, your brain is scanned.
- the data obtained during the scan is used to configure an artificial neural network or a similiar technology.
- you'll then 'awake' in the artificial body.

The artificial 'you' will be the same person as the biological 'you' was during the scan. The same memories and personality will occupy the brains of both 'versions' of you.

This is the explanation. It's a hypothetical question, therefore you're not supposed to question whether it could work or not. Use your imagination. That is, if you have one.

 

[PistachioByAzul]

And lack of foresight? I wouldn't be so sure of that.

I would...what is the purpose beyond the idea that we can eternally pursue hedonistic and materialistic desires? Because that's the underlying notion in the mind of anyone who would say that they'd do it.

 

[JupiterJones]

would...what is the purpose beyond the idea that we can eternally pursue hedonistic and materialistic desires? Because that's the underlying notion in the mind of anyone who would say that they'd do it.

I don't know, it could be Megalamania. Some of us think we'd be doing the world a service to live forever.

 

[Servanya]

Use your imagination. That is, if you have one.

Dude....




the data obtained during the scan is used to configure an artificial neural network or a similiar technology.
- you'll then 'awake' in the artificial body.

I am glad that you explained it this way. Thanks. BUT - I, like many others, am having problems understanding where my "thoughts" will go when this happens. If it is a transfer, and the biological "me" dies, then I get it. BUT, if the bio me still lives, then where do my thoughts occur? Both beings will have individual thoughts, but what about the same conciousness that I once had? If the "bio me" is able to look at the android me, the the bio me will still be the only true me. I guess I'm arguing for the "soul", but I'd like to think that I'm not.
hmmmm.
Hell yea! Give me (eternal) life!!!!!

 

[Ultima]

<<

<<

<< After the artificial neural network has been initialized, you'll watch yourself sitting or lying . From that point on, you'll probably trouble accepting that that person you see is yourself, that the body you see was once your own body.

>>



That is only your opinion, and has yet to be proven. It may behave like me, it may look like me (or it may look like a giant toaster but that's beside the point), and it may think its me, but who's to say that it really is me? Read my above post, too. >>

Again, do the words 'hypothical question' ring a bell?

I'm not saying that this method is even feasible, it probably isn't, but that doesn't take away that we might one day be faced with such a situation. >>



hypothetical? You stated it as if it were a fact? Sorry, but I don't share your opinions, and I, along with everyone else here, are allowed to state our points of views. You don't own this thread or our thoughts Funny how you didn't respond to my other post either If one day it came along and worked just like you think it would work then yes, I would do it, but for now I think I'll stand by my other post.