Wouldn't it be hilarious...

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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
The point of trying to compare nuclear weapons to small arms, more specifically handguns, is quite clear. Its like comparing a tabby to a wild lion because they are very remotely related, in other words it is idiotic.

You must have something better than that Craig, I simply can't believe that is the best you can do.

Probably the weakest response (idiotic, you could say) to an analogy is to make an issue of an unrelated difference between the things in the analogy.

For example, say you argue that limiting banks from mixing their banking and investing functions, which liberals advocate to prevent conflicts of interest that can hurt voth types of customers, is wrong because the government has no business telling a private business what they can do. I then say, 'so the government has no business telling big pharma whether a drug is safe to sell, either?'

You could respond, 'uses of money and drug safety are not the same. You don't swallow money, but you tak pills.'

Now, I pointed out a relevant point between the items - the issue of government regulation of business. You pointed out an irrelevant difference.

I dare say you would add it's idiotic to compare money to drugs.

To make it even clearer, a second example. You are with a friend and their 8 year old, and at McDonalds,the child orders 8 applie pies as their meal. You ask the friend why they don't require a less unhealthy pick, and the friend says they don't think the child should be dictated to, and should get what they want. You ask if that logic means they should decide whether to do anything else, too, like take drugs. The friend says, 'applie pies and crack cocaine are not the same thing, that's idiotic'.

Now you asked the relevant question, about the logic they used that children should not be required to do some things. The friend avoided the relevant question about their own logic, by pointing out an irrelevant difference in your analogy. They could make the case why their logic makes sense with apple pies and not crack cocaine, but they didn't make the case, they avoided the issue you were raising with their logic.

In the analogy under discussion, I pointed out the relevant issue, the issue of whether the government limiting access to more dangerous weapons is addressed by 'don't limit the access to have them, but make the killing with them illegal'. Now, admittedly, the extra danger posed by a 30-round clip over a 10-round clip is far less than a nuclear weapon. But the issue is the same, when the ONLY argument for keeping the 30-round clip presented was 'keep it legal to have, but not to use to kill'.

That's a very inadequate argument - clearly, the issue there is whether the person who is going to kill, will have access to 10 or 30 round clips in their semi-automatic gun.

You have not provided any real argument why the 30 should remain legal - and to expose the weakness of your argument I applied its logic to nuclear weapons. Clearly the logic says, the only issue with making more deadly weapons available is that their being more deadly - whether they can kill 1 to 20 more people (per clip), or thousands more, it's the same logic - is no reason to ban them, all that's needed is to make the misuse illegal.

The nuclear weapon is to expose the weakness of the argument, and say how the 'make it illegal' is inadequate as an argument. If you say 'we should not just make the misuse of nuclear weapon illegal, but should restrict access', you are asked why the same doesn't apply to the smaller number of added danger from the 30-person clip.

But you miss the point, not addressing the relevant point about when the more dangerous weapon becomes too much more dangerous versus 'legitimate' need.

Instead you make an irrelevant point about the differences between the two items in the analogy.

The only one who has any business expressing disappointment here is me.

But since you are not too good with analogies, the point can be made more directly:

Clearly, making the misuse of firearms to kill illegaly is not enough to prevent it in some cases; and once the person will misuse a 10-clip to do it, they can misuse a 30-clip too.

The only issue there is they can kill more. The question is, while access to some firearms is a right, where is the line drawn where more deadly arms are so much only more deadly for misuse, rather than having a 'legitimate' use, for general public access, that the public should be protected from killers having them legally available?

I could list items from 30-slip magazines to assault rifles to machine guns to bazookas and on up to nuclear weapons, but the point is the same for any example.

Simply saying 'make the killing illegal' is clearly not an answer, since that's ineffective for both the 10 clip and 30 clip - not a reason to make the 30 clip available.

You needed this spelled out. You got it wrong saying what the point of the analogy was. You got insulting to make the point that was wrong. That's not good.

The response 'make the 30-round clip legal and its misues illegal' is an inadequate response. You have not shown you understand that or provided any argument for it.

The topic could raise issues of how much killing power is appropriate. Like any laws picking a point, it can be a gray area why not higher or lower, but, say, 'more than 10 rounds in a clip' might be one place to draw the line. A flimsy bit of bad logic is not an answer to the issue. The nuclear weapons application of the bad logic exposed its weakness clearly without the longer spelling it out. You did not answer the issue, but dodged it.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Then you'll be interested to know that Loughner was tackled when he ran out of bullets in his first magazine and was trying to change magazines. If he'd had only a 10-bullet magazine, he'd have been tackled sooner and fewer people would have been killed or injured. Fact.

Most psychotics are NOT well trained handgun users, capable of switching out a magazine in seconds. Limiting the number of bullets in a magazine CAN and WILL make a difference in the real world, not in the straw-man world of the "everyone's an expert with handguns" NRA.

And, yes, it's a tradeoff between the benefits of total freedom to use any handgun with any enhancement you want and and the benefit of limiting the lethality of handguns in the hands of madmen. In the warped minds of the NRA, there are no benefits to controlling handguns. None.

I don't doubt that's the case. And honestly, I don't feel that high-capacity magazines are uniquely useful or necessary, but just because you might think no one *needs* a product is not reason to make it unavailable for those who want them. Large capacity magazines are no more dangerous than a large car engine in a car; would you ban sports cars because a reckless driver could run over people faster in one than in a Yugo? Banning an item for its potential misuse is stupid - it's akin to banning large capacity hard drives because a pedophile could store more kiddie porn on it.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
I don't doubt that's the case. And honestly, I don't feel that high-capacity magazines are uniquely useful or necessary, but just because you might think no one *needs* a product is not reason to make it unavailable for those who want them.

No reason to have them alone isn't a reason to ban them. No reason to have them plus greatly increased killing capacity is.

Large capacity magazines are no more dangerous than a large car engine in a car; would you ban sports cars because a reckless driver could run over people faster in one than in a Yugo?

That's a bad analogy. Killing power isn't increased much at all by a larger engine. Now, a tank, even gunless is more deadly - we could talk about allowing tanks.

Other more deadly vehicles like trucks have far greater utility value than big clips.

Banning an item for its potential misuse is stupid - it's akin to banning large capacity hard drives because a pedophile could store more kiddie porn on it.

No, it's nothing like that. Banning hard drives with the info to hack nukes, makes sense.

To keep it simple, compare the relative harm and utility value of big clips and big drives.

How useful are big drives, compared to what you admitted is 'no value' to clips?

And how much is the harm of big clips - 1 to 20 more people shot - versus storing pics?
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
My solution is to make ownership linked to taking and passing required gun school.
You cannot get a driver license without passing a test, and at some
point have passed drivers ED. Requiring passing a class in gun school would educate the owners in responsibe gun ownership. Educate the owner with how to handle a gun, both usage and storage.
If everyone at my local Wal-Mart is going to pack a gun, I would at least know they can
shoot straight, and operate the safety feature.

Gun class would include graphically showing would-be owners the physical damage a gun
wound does to a body, the head, the chest, and so on. Show what someone looks like
with their head blown off, or gunshot holes in the body, or like the congresswoman in the ICU unit with tubes coming out of every part of their body and half their skull removed after brain surgery.
So when someone with a gun feels John Wayne-ish, they would realize the difference between actually shooting someone and the fantasy of watching someone getting shot on TV.

We have laws and requirements for getting a drivers license, why not guns?
If you cannot pass gun class, as with failing the driver’s test, you get no license.
You only get a gun if you pass and demonstrate you can handle a gun.
If you cannot shoot straight and cannot prove you can handle a gun, then no gun.

Last week, one congress person said they wish at least one other person with a gun were at the grocery store shooting in AZ. But what he actually said makes a lot of sense. He actually said, "a responsible person with a gun". He was saying someone
that knew how to actually use a gun, i.e. security or police.
I have no trouble with his statement. He was not saying he wished "anyone else" with a gun, he was saying someone "responsible" with a gun.

The shooter might have been stopped sooner, if someone that was a responsible gun owner had been present. Not just anyone, but someone that actually might have been able to stop the shooter and not accidently kill more people in the crowd.

Allow all and every type of gun ownership. BUT... only if the owner has taken part in and passed a gun ownership class, proving they can be responsible.
Just like the drivers license...!

And I completely agree with the idea in theory. The issue for guns is the slippery slope. Unlike cars, guns are owned by a minority of general society and this breeds lack of understanding, which in turn breeds fear. Doesn't help that the only usage of guns you hear about on the media are from cops and madmen. Any form of gun licensing would quickly progress to gun confiscation.

And you don't need to be security or police to know how to use a gun by any means. In fact I'm willing to bet that I know more than your average cop, and I have no formal training whatsoever. Go actually talk to one of your local police officers and ask them how many times they shoot/year. Outside of SWAT teams, you'll probably be surprised. My local PD only shoots about 4 times a year IIRC, although most of them are pro-gun and go to the range on their own time.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
More people die in america, because for some stupid old reason everyone is allowed to own guns

/Discussion

Felons are not allowed to own guns. The mentally unstable are not allowed to own guns. Anyone convicted of a violent crime is not allowed to own a gun. Minors are not allowed to own guns and <21 year old cannot own handguns. The fact that some slip through the cracks is a fact with every law on the books.

And despite what you hear on the news, there are plenty of people who defend their homes and loved ones from home invasions/robberies, muggers, every day. Tell them their guns are killing innocents. Tell them that their family should have died for the "greater good" as you see it.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,027
3
76
Felons are not allowed to own guns. The mentally unstable are not allowed to own guns. Anyone convicted of a violent crime is not allowed to own a gun. Minors are not allowed to own guns and <21 year old cannot own handguns. The fact that some slip through the cracks is a fact with every law on the books.

And despite what you hear on the news, there are plenty of people who defend their homes and loved ones from home invasions/robberies, muggers, every day. Tell them their guns are killing innocents. Tell them that their family should have died for the "greater good" as you see it.

However you look at it, the United States has one of the highest rates of gun death in the world. The UK has one of the lowest based on the &#37; of a 100,000 population. (Based on statistics from 2000)

USA = 78% of Homicides are committed with a firearm
England and Wales = 8%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence

So however you look at it, people die ALOT because of gun law in america.

Firearm death per 100,000:

USA: 3.97
England and Wales: 0.12

Based on these statistics with your gun laws and in your country you are 33.083 times more likely to be killed in a firearm death than with our gun laws in ours.

If you take out gun deaths. Then Deaths per 100,000 go to:

USA: 4.58
UK: 1.33

Meaning that in the USA you are only 3.4 times more likely to be killed than in the UK. Still higher but considerably less than gun related deaths.
 
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irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
However you look at it, the United States has one of the highest rates of gun death in the world. The UK has one of the lowest based on the &#37; of a 100,000 population. (Based on statistics from 2000)

USA = 78% of Homicides are committed with a firearm
England and Wales = 8%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence

So however you look at it, people die ALOT because of gun law in america.

Firearm death per 100,000:

USA: 3.97
England and Wales: 0.12

Based on these statistics with your gun laws and in your country you are 33.083 times more likely to be killed in a firearm death than with our gun laws in ours.

If you take out gun deaths. Then Deaths per 100,000 go to:

USA: 4.58
UK: 1.33

Meaning that in the USA you are only 3.4 times more likely to be killed than in the UK. Still higher but considerably less than gun related deaths.

And that's fine. In the UK. Effective gun prohibition in the United states is impossible. For reference, fully automatic firearms have been banned from the mainstream civilian populace for close to a century now. With a few phone calls and the right money I could easily acquire one.

Now fully automatic weapons were never that widespread to start with. Start outlawing semi-automatic civilian handguns and long guns and we end up with an exploding black market and guns being in the hands of criminals only. Criminals do not care about the law. If they want to be armed, they will be armed.


Impracticality aside, I fail to see why we should make our laws punish the innocent majority of responsible gun owners for the acts of an extreme minority. And as I mentioned, take away their right to effective self defense of them and their families. One of the reasons I get so passionate about this issue is that every time I hear someone mention a gun ban, I hear them saying my life, and the lives of my loved ones whom it is my responsibility to protect, is worth less than that of a would-be murderer.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
However you look at it, the United States has one of the highest rates of gun death in the world. The UK has one of the lowest based on the % of a 100,000 population. (Based on statistics from 2000)

USA = 78% of Homicides are committed with a firearm
England and Wales = 8%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence

So however you look at it, people die ALOT because of gun law in america.

Firearm death per 100,000:

USA: 3.97
England and Wales: 0.12

Based on these statistics with your gun laws and in your country you are 33.083 times more likely to be killed in a firearm death than with our gun laws in ours.

If you take out gun deaths. Then Deaths per 100,000 go to:

USA: 4.58
UK: 1.33

Meaning that in the USA you are only 3.4 times more likely to be killed than in the UK. Still higher but considerably less than gun related deaths.


What's awesome about all your useless statistics is that if you look at the actual break down, the majority of gun crimes are in liberal social experiment areas with lots of gun control, it actually makes the case that more gun control will do nothing, which is why no using these statistics every goes down that far.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
What's awesome about all your useless statistics is that if you look at the actual break down, the majority of gun crimes are in liberal social experiment areas with lots of gun control, it actually makes the case that more gun control will do nothing, which is why no using these statistics every goes down that far.

This too, although they'll start blaming gun "importation" from those crazy red states/areas.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,027
3
76
And that's fine. In the UK. Effective gun prohibition in the United states is impossible. For reference, fully automatic firearms have been banned from the mainstream civilian populace for close to a century now. With a few phone calls and the right money I could easily acquire one.

Now fully automatic weapons were never that widespread to start with. Start outlawing semi-automatic civilian handguns and long guns and we end up with an exploding black market and guns being in the hands of criminals only. Criminals do not care about the law. If they want to be armed, they will be armed.


Impracticality aside, I fail to see why we should make our laws punish the innocent majority of responsible gun owners for the acts of an extreme minority. And as I mentioned, take away their right to effective self defense of them and their families. One of the reasons I get so passionate about this issue is that every time I hear someone mention a gun ban, I hear them saying my life, and the lives of my loved ones whom it is my responsibility to protect, is worth less than that of a would-be murderer.

Because as americans keep telling me america is not "mob rule" it's not what's best for the majority, it's all about the minority...
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
Because as americans keep telling me america is not "mob rule" it's not what's best for the majority, it's all about the minority...

Yeah, those would be stupid Americans. Our legal system is based on the concept of better 100 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man be unjustly punished. That's why we have an endless appeals system and such opposition to the Patriot act and TSA searches.

It's not all about the majority, but it isn't all about the minority either. And those that say so are just compensating.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,027
3
76
Yeah, those would be stupid Americans. Our legal system is based on the concept of better 100 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man be unjustly punished. That's why we have an endless appeals system and such opposition to the Patriot act and TSA searches.

It's not all about the majority, but it isn't all about the minority either. And those that say so are just compensating.

Good to know, I would have still thought that the majority don't want gun deaths. I always just assume that american gun law is down to ignorance, Logic dictates that guns should be banned.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
Good to know, I would have still thought that the majority don't want gun deaths. I always just assume that american gun law is down to ignorance, Logic dictates that guns should be banned.

No one wants unlawful gun deaths, but logic and experience (assault weapons ban, prohibition, gun bans in cities, etc) also dictates that a gun ban would produce more problems than it solves. It is also logical that, were a large portion of the population lawfully armed, criminals would think twice before assaulting an armed target.

The cops are not even close to everywhere or 100% dependable, and, as our supreme court thankfully ruled, the right to self defense is a fundamental civil right. And I have yet to meet or hear about someone in favor of a gun ban continue to be so after they've been caught helpless.

The key is keep guns out of the hands of criminals. The problem is the measures to effectively do so (licensing and such) usually result in a slippery slope due to the demonization of guns in some regions. So gun laws are kept loose to offset the slippery slope.

Also, since you seem to be big on statistics, here in the US gun sales have gone through the roof as overall crime has gone down.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,027
3
76
No one wants unlawful gun deaths, but logic and experience (assault weapons ban, prohibition, gun bans in cities, etc) also dictates that a gun ban would produce more problems than it solves. It is also logical that, were a large portion of the population lawfully armed, criminals would think twice before assaulting an armed target.

The cops are not even close to everywhere or 100% dependable, and, as our supreme court thankfully ruled, the right to self defense is a fundamental civil right. And I have yet to meet or hear about someone in favor of a gun ban continue to be so after they've been caught helpless.

The key is keep guns out of the hands of criminals. The problem is the measures to effectively do so (licensing and such) usually result in a slippery slope due to the demonization of guns in some regions. So gun laws are kept loose to offset the slippery slope.

Also, since you seem to be big on statistics, here in the US gun sales have gone through the roof as overall crime has gone down.

If america were to 100% ban the ownership of a gun, deaths would go down.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
If america were to 100&#37; ban the ownership of a gun, deaths would go down.

No they wouldn't. Even if the laws are there, the guns are still there too. There are ~270,000,000 privately owned guns in America. And the criminals will not turn in their guns or stop using them because of words and paper. Criminals by definition do not believe in the rule of law. If they did, they wouldn't be criminals. Tell me you understand that.

Would you start warrantless door-to-door sweeps for firearms? That's the only way to ensure such a ban would be effective.
 
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HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,027
3
76
No they wouldn't. Even if the laws are there, the guns are still there too. There are ~270,000,000 privately owned guns in America. And the criminals will not turn in their guns or stop using them because of words and paper. Criminals by definition do not believe in the rule of law. If they did, they wouldn't be criminals. Tell me you understand that.

Would you start warrantless door-to-door sweeps for firearms? That's the only way to ensure such a ban would be effective.

I would grant warrants to police officers to remove firearms from people who have a licensed one, people in the UK happily gave over there weapons in 1988, theres no good reason it couldn't happen the same over there.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,328
126
Probably the weakest response (idiotic, you could say) to an analogy is to make an issue of an unrelated difference between the things in the analogy.
There we go, I knew ya had a wall'o'text in ya. This is much more Craiglike.

For example, say you argue that limiting banks from mixing their banking and investing functions, which liberals advocate to prevent conflicts of interest that can hurt voth types of customers, is wrong because the government has no business telling a private business what they can do. I then say, 'so the government has no business telling big pharma whether a drug is safe to sell, either?'

You could respond, 'uses of money and drug safety are not the same. You don't swallow money, but you tak pills.'

Now, I pointed out a relevant point between the items - the issue of government regulation of business. You pointed out an irrelevant difference.

In the context of this argument nuclear weapons have no relevant similarities with small arms. Period. Throw out all the examples you want but it won't change the absurdity of comparing small arms to nuclear weapons.

In the analogy under discussion, I pointed out the relevant issue, the issue of whether the government limiting access to more dangerous weapons is addressed by 'don't limit the access to have them, but make the killing with them illegal'.

First of all, I didn't see anything relevant that you pointed out. Secondly, the "law" was tongue in cheek, it is already illegal to wrongfully kill someone with a gun. The issue isn't the gun it is the "crazy". Unless you can legislate crazy out of existence things like this will happen regardless of what you quasi-ban.

Now, admittedly, the extra danger posed by a 30-round clip over a 10-round clip

It is not a clip. It is called a magazine.

is far less than a nuclear weapon.

If by "far less" you mean one is capable of holding 30 rounds of pistol ammunition and nothing more and the other is capable of destroying entire cities, I would agree with you.

But the issue is the same, when the ONLY argument for keeping the 30-round clip presented was 'keep it legal to have, but not to use to kill'.

That's a very inadequate argument - clearly, the issue there is whether the person who is going to kill, will have access to 10 or 30 round clips in their semi-automatic gun.

Not a clip it is a magazine.

And it isn't an "issue". The same nutjob would have had access to the same (or probably better quality) 30 round magazine with the ban in place. The only difference would have been price and if you are a crazy nutjob hell bent on killing people I doubt he would have had an issue paying 4 or 5 times what he did. Furthermore, as has been pointed out many times in the other thread, most 30 round magazines are cheap aftermarket junk. The are bulky, very difficult to reload, prone to jamming, etc... Anyone with a few days at the range can swap standard 15 round magazines in a second or so while 30 round aftermarket mags take much longer due to the quality and sheer bulk/weight.

You have not provided any real argument why the 30 should remain legal - and to expose the weakness of your argument I applied its logic to nuclear weapons. Clearly the logic says, the only issue with making more deadly weapons available is that their being more deadly - whether they can kill 1 to 20 more people (per clip), or thousands more, it's the same logic - is no reason to ban them, all that's needed is to make the misuse illegal.

They are magazines, not clips.

I have made a very real argument in this thread and the other about the ignorance of banning 30 round magazines over this issue. YOU are the one who has made no real argument to why they should be banned. It is NOT a fact that less people would have died if he had used the standard 15ish round mags. Perhaps the 30 rounds kept his focus down range (bad term but I couldn't think of anything better) for longer and allowed the people to get close enough to tackle him. Perhaps he would have seen them getting near him as he swapped out standard mags and killed them too. Perhaps he would have emptied a full 3 or 4 magazines if he wasn't using cheap aftermarket 30 round magazines. All of this, including your "30 round magazine allowed him to do more damage" is pure speculation. Speculation is not a good reason to ban things.

The nuclear weapon is to expose the weakness of the argument, and say how the 'make it illegal' is inadequate as an argument. If you say 'we should not just make the misuse of nuclear weapon illegal, but should restrict access', you are asked why the same doesn't apply to the smaller number of added danger from the 30-person clip.

Magazine not clip.

You have yet to prove that cheap, ultra-low quality aftermarket magazines "add danger". Everybody that I know that is decent with a handgun will "lose danger" if forced to use 30 round magazines, not gain. They might be fun at the range but in the real world I would never even consider using one.
But you miss the point, not addressing the relevant point about when the more dangerous weapon becomes too much more dangerous versus 'legitimate' need.

No, I understand the point very well. Let me give you another tidbit, the nutjob was most likely using full metal jacket rounds or FMJs. FMJs are basically used as target ammo due to cost. If he had been using even cheap JHPs (or jagged hollow points), it would have had a much larger impact on how deadly his weapon was than the extended magazine. The Congresswoman would not be alive today had he been using off the shelf self defense rounds instead of FMJs. The caliber of gun comes into play as well, if he had used a .40 caliber instead of a 9mm she likely wouldn't have survived either. Personally, I would take 15 rounds of decent .40 over 30 rounds of FMJ 9mm any day. A lot of police departments are even moving away from the 9mm because other rounds have more stopping power.

I would wager that if the nutjob would have used a 1911 .45 with JHP and 10 round magazines that the list of injured would not be very long at all because few would survive a close range shot to anything vital. He would have been forced to swap magazines more often and those mag swaps would have been much quicker with a greatly reduced chance of the weapon jamming.


So now its your turn, why SHOULD they be banned?


The only one who has any business expressing disappointment here is me.

Whatever helps you sleep at night bud.

But since you are not too good with analogies, the point can be made more directly:

Clearly, making the misuse of firearms to kill illegaly is not enough to prevent it in some cases; and once the person will misuse a 10-clip to do it, they can misuse a 30-clip too.

The only issue there is they can kill more. The question is, while access to some firearms is a right, where is the line drawn where more deadly arms are so much only more deadly for misuse, rather than having a 'legitimate' use, for general public access, that the public should be protected from killers having them legally available?
Magazines not clips.

The bigger issue is that due to your ignorance about the subject (not trying to put you down, to each their own) the above argument is flat out wrong.



You needed this spelled out. You got it wrong saying what the point of the analogy was. You got insulting to make the point that was wrong. That's not good.

Of course I needed it spelled out. I have no idea what wrong answer people can come up with.

The response 'make the 30-round clip legal and its misues illegal' is an inadequate response. You have not shown you understand that or provided any argument for it.

Magazine not clip.

The topic could raise issues of how much killing power is appropriate. Like any laws picking a point, it can be a gray area why not higher or lower, but, say, 'more than 10 rounds in a clip' might be one place to draw the line. A flimsy bit of bad logic is not an answer to the issue. The nuclear weapons application of the bad logic exposed its weakness clearly without the longer spelling it out. You did not answer the issue, but dodged it.

As I have pointed out, the gun I carry every day is a .40 caliber pistol with 2 15 round magazines loaded with good quality JHP self defense rounds. It has far more "killing power" than the nutjobs pistol and 30 round magazine. You could give him 50% more ammo and I would still bet that my everyday carry weapon has more "killing power". Hell, they taught me how to "tactical reload" in my CCW class. Since my weapon can fire without a magazine inserted I would never lose the ability to shoot someone trying to tackle me while reloading (assuming I can actually count the rounds I fire in a real situation).

I don't fault you for being ignorant of the subject but I do fault you for having ignorant opinions due to your lack of knowledge on the subject.

Kudos on the post though, it is definitely more along the lines of what I expect from a Craig post.

And it is a magazine, not a clip. Here is a good video explaining the difference:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF21sihEgOU
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
I would grant warrants to police officers to remove firearms from people who have a licensed one, people in the UK happily gave over there weapons in 1988, theres no good reason it couldn't happen the same over there.

People would. Criminals wouldn't. Criminals wouldn't have a licensed firearm to begin with, even if such a thing existed in the US.

And actually most gun owners like their guns and wouldn't give them up "happily".

Edit: And thanks for pointing out how gun licensing would be used for gun confiscation.
 
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HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,027
3
76
People would. Criminals wouldn't. Criminals wouldn't have a licensed firearm to begin with, even if such a thing existed in the US.

Edit: And thanks for pointing out how gun licensing would be used for gun confiscation.

Very true, and the same thing happened over here, criminals didn't give up their weapons but their ability to get weapons was severely reduced. And over time fewer and fewer people had them, now almost none have them. It wouldn't happen over night, but it would happen. It's taken us 22 years to get to where we are and now we have so few gun related deaths its not worth even talking about.

Edit: No problem...?
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,328
126
Good to know, I would have still thought that the majority don't want gun deaths. I always just assume that american gun law is down to ignorance, Logic dictates that guns should be banned.

Why should I think a gun ban would be anymore effective than the current drug ban? Between the guns already here and our huge land and sea borders I can't imagine it would be difficult for thugs to remain armed while law abiding citizens are disarmed.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,328
126
I would grant warrants to police officers to remove firearms from people who have a licensed one, people in the UK happily gave over there weapons in 1988, theres no good reason it couldn't happen the same over there.

Please oh please tell me why mr. gang banger drug dealer protecting his "corner" with his glock "fotay" would happily turn it in?

Besides, I lost all my guns in a boating accident. They are at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico...

Oh yeah, what about the majority of guns that are not registered/licensed?

Then you can explain how we keep the thugs from importing them with the drugs.
 
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