OK, but if drugs were legal more people would die from them than currently, It is a good comparison. And making drugs illegal would have cut down deaths as does gun ownership. That being said more reasonable people want to take drugs than own a gun!
Why should I think a gun ban would be anymore effective than the current drug ban? Between the guns already here and our huge land and sea borders I can't imagine it would be difficult for thugs to remain armed while law abiding citizens are disarmed.
Very true, and the same thing happened over here, criminals didn't give up their weapons but their ability to get weapons was severely reduced. And over time fewer and fewer people had them, now almost none have them. It wouldn't happen over night, but it would happen. It's taken us 22 years to get to where we are and now we have so few gun related deaths its not worth even talking about.
Edit: No problem...?
Please oh please tell me why mr. gang banger drug dealer protecting his "corner" with his glock "fotay" would happily turn it in?
Besides, I lost all my guns in a boating accident. They are at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico...
Oh yeah, what about the majority of guns that are not registered/licensed?
Then you can explain how we keep the thugs from importing them with the drugs.
You guys live on a relatively tiny island. We do not.
OK, but if drugs were legal more people would die from them than currently, It is a good comparison. And making drugs illegal would have cut down deaths as does gun ownership. That being said more reasonable people want to take drugs than own a gun!
Very true, and the same thing happened over here, criminals didn't give up their weapons but their ability to get weapons was severely reduced. And over time fewer and fewer people had them, now almost none have them. It wouldn't happen over night, but it would happen. It's taken us 22 years to get to where we are and now we have so few gun related deaths its not worth even talking about.
Edit: No problem...?
Because if they are illegal then they are more difficult to come by...
What's a "fotay"...?
A drug dealer wouldn't the police would need to take it. It happened over here...
More people currently do drugs, have access to more potent drugs, and the drugs are cheaper than when they were banned. Said another way drugs have become stronger, cheaper, and more wildly used.
Next argument?
And as I pointed out, automatic weapons have been banned for close to a century here and if you know who to go to their still readily available for the right price. Maybe its cultural, but in some form or other guns are here to stay in America. Which means my family will be safer in the US than in Britain.
And as Darwin (and myself previously) pointed out all it would do is make the black market explode. Guns are made outside of the US too you know.
Wrong. It is easier for most high school kids to find and purchase illegal narcotics than it is for them to purchase a beer.
What thugs call a .40 caliber hand gun.
The police haven't been doing a very good job on either the guns or drugs so far. Forgive me if I would prefer to depend on myself for protection than the police who are always just a few minutes away when seconds count.
You've got a bigger government to compensate.
Guns kill people!.. Statistically proven. Making guns illegal reduces the number of people killed. Statistically proven.
Next argument?
So because people have guns you are safer? Did you read the statistics earlier?
Yes, yes they are, but we managed it, try harder.
Well that's fucking retarded and it's not the case over here.
Retarded
Then you are living in the wrong country, if you can't depend on your government for safety then the government needs reform, and removing guns from the streets would be a good start.
They can't keep fuckloads of people, drugs, and other contraband from illegally entering the country every year. Our big governments track record blows donkeys in this regard so again, forgive me for not believing they can stop guns (but not hordes of people and tons of drugs) from entering the country illegally.
It doesn't stop it from being true.
Agreed.
The police by their very nature are reactionary. They react AFTER a crime has been committed.
Tell ya what, I'll make everyone a deal. After the government removes all the bad guys from the streets, to prove that they actually could remove the guns, I will consider giving up mine. Until then all they will be doing is removing guns from law abiding citizens and I am not sure if anyone has told you but the law abiding citizens aren't the ones to be concerned with.
And that still doesn't solve the root cause of the shooting in question which is fucking batshit crazy assholes doing batshit crazy things. He could have used an 18 wheeler with similar results. You can't fix crazy.
Statistically proven in the UK. In the US, banning guns has done nothing and in some cases crime has actually gone up during said bans.
Yes, because in the event of a home invader with a crowbar, here I could shoot him. In the UK I'd be forced into h2h or cowering in a room somewhere. Just because your statistics are valid for a nation doesn't make them valid for an individual.
And yes you managed it. You're on an island that's smaller than more than a few of our states (we have 50). You had much fewer guns to initially deal with and fewer methods of illegal entry. And most importantly, here we have a culture that puts at least some value on self-reliance and responsibility (despite what you may see on the media). How anyone can put the government in charge of their personal security and still consider themselves an adult is beyond me.
Banning guns hasn't happened in the US, obviously you can't ban some guns and not others and expect it to work, it's an all or nothing thing.
How you can make this statement is beyond me, you rely on other people for everything, for your health care, for your car servicing (unless you are a mechanic) unless you can do your own open heart surgery you are completely dependant on the government and society as a whole that doesn't make you less of a man, it makes you a valuable part of society where people rely on each other.
I can make that statement because, unlike you, I don't generalize. You on the other hand keep pointing out shit in the UK and saying it would work over hear, despite completely different circumstances, culture, resources, and a host of other factors.
I am dependent on other people for many things, as it should be. Humanity is a social species. But that doesn't mean there is no value of self-sufficiency. There's a difference between making use of other people's advanced skills and taking care of myself. I don't go to the dentist to brush my teeth every night, even though he/she should probably do a better job than I could. Do you want your government nanny to Brush your teeth? I'm sure in the UK it could be arranged.
Getting back on topic, I don't hold the government responsible for my safety if I knowingly walk through, say, Camden New Jersey at night. Because I'm an adult, the decision to walk through it was mine, and I take responsibility for my actions. By your logic I should be able to sue the government for negligence if I get mugged.
If I'm going to rely on the government for personal protection, I expect an armed, trained bodyguard to follow me around 24/7. Until that happens, I'll keep my guns thank you.
OK Guys, I think I'm done with this argument for today, it's late I've got stuff to do I will leave you with this:
If guns are illegal less people will own them. Therefore fewer people will get shot, I'm not sure what's wrong with this logic for you. It has been proven that this is the case. Obviously not in the US because guns are legal in the US, so in the UK, a similar western country.
In any event it has become apparent that you guys have no confidence in your society to keep you safe, so you feel like you need to lock yourself in a small room carrying a shotgun.
Enjoy your selves. I just take comfort in the fact that If I go out tonight at 3 am, I won't (statistically) get shot. 'Night.
Not true at all, and I won't get shot if I go out at 3am either. In my 23 years on this planet I've never been shot at despite taking many risks and being to more than a few shady areas. But whatever makes you feel good. Enjoy your fantasy.
I don't need to carry a gun to feel normal, but it's nice to know that if some idiot does decide to go ape-shit, I'll have the option.
In short, yet more generalizing out of you. Come back when you're ready to acknowledge that the US isn't the UK and realize that individual reality isn't solely based on vague overarching statistics.
Sigh. You can't argue with the paranoid.
Not paranoid at all. I feel perfectly comfortable in the knowledge that I can protect myself if need be. Outside of threads like these I hardly think about it. I just prefer the security of knowledge, experience and proven capability as opposed tot he false security of "well the government will protect me."
The US isn't the UK, but (believe it or not) you'd prefer if it was, you'll never know though.
And I, and the rest of humanity feel uncomfortable knowing that there are people out there carrying guns so that they can defend themselves if provoked. If I get in a fight with someone I like knowing that he wont whip out a gun. You sir are the guy that you want to defend yourself against. Until america realises that their solution to this issue is the problem that causes it nothings going to happen.
Guns kill people!.. Statistically proven. Making guns illegal reduces the number of people killed. Statistically proven.
Next argument?
So because people have guns you are safer? Did you read the statistics earlier?
Yes, yes they are, but we managed it, try harder.