Wow, Apple upgrade prices when ordering iMac are absurd

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Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
5,723
325
126
I've used both OS's extensively. I think a large part of the perception of OS X being better than Windows is because OS X has a hardware standard.

You can't really buy garbage grade hardware on a mac. People buy $400 windows laptops and when they suck they blame it on the OS rather than them being cheap.
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
23,752
1,285
126
I've used both OS's extensively. I think a large part of the perception of OS X being better than Windows is because OS X has a hardware standard.
Yes, and it's a huge advantage.

You can't really buy garbage grade hardware on a mac. People buy $400 windows laptops and when they suck they blame it on the OS rather than them being cheap.
The problem is you never know what's going to work and what isn't, when it comes to software upgrades and even worse, OS upgrades.

This relates to the above, which is that there is no hardware standard. This dramatically increases flexibility, but it also causes headaches for compatibility. You can buy name brand hardware to minimize this, but it only helps in terms of the actual OS you buy. Once you decide to upgrade the OS, you may run into problems.

I think the number 1 feature I like on OS X is I can run the exact same install that I have on my iMac that I have on my MacBook Pro if I want to. This simplifies backups greatly for example. I just backup the entire install and if I have a hardware problem I can simply just plug in the drive (via USB or whatever) and boot off that.

I think the biggest problem right now though is that some certificates on the Mac App Store have expired, so you can no longer run old installers. You have to re-download those installers.

http://tidbits.com/article/16302

That certificate expires in 2023, so if you re-download the installer now, you can use it for 7 more years. But in my case I actually store clean installs on backup drives. If I ever have to reinstall the OS, I generally just re-image it from a stored clean install.

BTW, this is another reason why although I like Macs a lot, I think the Mac App Store sucks.
 
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Essence_of_War

Platinum Member
Feb 21, 2013
2,650
4
81
Almost all Apple laptops (the aged 101 [the 13" NON retina Pro that they keep selling for... reasons] being the only outlier), the Mac Mini, and MAYBE the 21" iMac have soldered RAM. The 21" certainly doesn't have user accessible RAM, whether it's ultimately removable or not, I'm not sure.

The 27" iMac has user accessible/serviceable RAM, as does the Mac Pro.

I shied a relative away from the 13'' non-retina Pro earlier this year..."reasons" indeed!

Thanks for clarifying TheStu!
 
Nov 20, 2009
10,051
2,577
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I still find it funny how Apple was in terms of trying to be so different from the Windows Personal Computer that they refused to use any hardware technology that could have been construed as originating from PC, and hence Windows.

Intel? F-that. IDE/SATA? "We are SCSI!" Etc.

Any now look at them Apples. They are so Intel as to be a hypocrite on the Intel usage as if Intel and M$ got some sort of divorce. Attention Apple, you are still buying Intel as a function of Microsoft, AND nothing says this louder than all those running Hackintosh PC's.

But this aside the one poignant aspect that spoke loudly about Apple came by way of my first OS X experience as I setup my wife's Q3 2011 27" iMac. I got her this product to make my life easier from a management and maintenance standpoint. I had to train her to use the iMac, and by this i mean OS X.

That wasn't easy and my wife isn't stupid (she's got a PhD in Chemistry). Yet, trying to make the littlest of things easier, like creating a shortcut that was so yesterday in the Windows world was oblivious to the OS X and Apple world.

OK, I'm the ignorant one for not knowing how to do this. So i go get help from the <holding laughter>Genius Bar</holding laughter> and no one knew how to do this. Some pleaded to not knowing what a Shortcut was, to those honest enough to say they simply had no idea how to replicate this feature.

And while I have since been told that this is an easy thing to do you would not believe what kind of Anandtech and Macrumors assistance I had to get over a month period to code this into existence. Seriously? I hate coding. I'm too lazy to do it. I could if I had to, but guess what? I don't do it professionally ... because I hate.

Are Apple people too good to use something like a shortcut? In 2011 (and before), yes would have been the Apple community. Sure Apple comes with premium hardware [from the PC world thank you very much Intel+Microsoft] and their products 'look' fantastic, but the sticker shock keeps me grounded in non-Apple, or at least non-official Apple.
 

nerp

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,866
105
106
I think they call it an alias. Right click "make alias" done.
 

dclive

Elite Member
Oct 23, 2003
5,626
2
81
I was considering getting a 27" iMac for my wife and was checking out the different loadouts on them.

To go from 8GB memory to 16GB is $200 when the entire 16GB kit probably costs about $50-$70 retail.

Fusion drive to 512GB SSD is $200 when that's around the retail price of a top of the line consumer 512GB SSD.

$250 to go from i5 to i7 Haswell. The combination of overpricing and last gen processor is baffling.

I remembered that Apple overcharged for upgrades but these are way out there...

Hard drive -> Upgrade via Thunderbolt - it's there for a reason, folks.
RAM -> Easy to upgrade on the 27" model; agreed it can't be on the 21.5". Crazy.

I'm happily using a Seagate Thunderbolt -> SATA3 bridge on my 2011 iMac. I have the cord and contraption tucked away, and it's working great. Sure, it's not $10 that a USB3->SATA3 bridge costs on NewEgg (I think all told it was around $150, and it's ugly...) but it does work, and my 256GB Samsung 830 is happily plugging away, years after being installed. That's what's keeping me from upgrading to a Retina iMac.

(I wish it would die....)
 

Ice_Dragon

Senior member
Nov 17, 2011
236
0
71
In my opinion, they used to be absurd but aren't as bad anymore.

In 2011, when I bought my first Mac, the cost to go from a base $599 mini with 2 GB of RAM to the mid-range model (+$200 to $799) and put an Apple 256 GB "branded" SSD inside (+$600) was $1,399. In addition the controller inside the Mac mini was SATA III and the SSD I found out was SATA II.

In 2012, although discrete graphics was removed, you got a quad-core processor for $200 less (which a year earlier was only available on the $999 "server" model) and the cost to upgrade to an SSD went down by $300. Shortly before the 2014 model was released, it eventually went to $200.

I think what does suck though is not all options are available to you unless you upgrade to more expensive models. I should be able to get 1 TB Flash Storage on the 4K 21.5" iMac and base model 27" iMac for example and not settle for 512 GB.
 

Tyranicus

Senior member
Aug 28, 2007
914
6
81
I still find it funny how Apple was in terms of trying to be so different from the Windows Personal Computer that they refused to use any hardware technology that could have been construed as originating from PC, and hence Windows.

Intel? F-that. IDE/SATA? "We are SCSI!" Etc.
Apple was not using Motorola processors and SCSI drives just to be different. The original Macintosh in 1984 had a Motorola CPU. At the time, Intel chips were just one of many competing standards. The first Mac with SCSI was the Mac Plus in 1986. Again, at this time, IDE was hardly a universally-accepted standard. Putting aside the fact that nothing was stopping PC users from getting a SCSI card for their machines, Apple was not still using SCSI when SATA became the standard. By the mid to late 90's, they had switched to IDE, and they switched from IDE to SATA the same time the PC industry did.

Attention Apple, you are still buying Intel as a function of Microsoft
What does this even mean?

And while I have since been told that this is an easy thing to do you would not believe what kind of Anandtech and Macrumors assistance I had to get over a month period to code this into existence. Seriously? I hate coding. I'm too lazy to do it. I could if I had to, but guess what? I don't do it professionally ... because I hate.
What coding? Right-click the thing you want to make a shortcut to and click "Make Alias." There. You now have a shortcut.
 
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KeithP

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2000
5,660
198
106
You can't really buy garbage grade hardware on a mac. People buy $400 windows laptops and when they suck they blame it on the OS rather than them being cheap.

I guess it depends on how you define "garbage." I would say the entry level Mac Mini with the 1.4GHz dual-core Intel Core i5, 4GB memory and 500GB/5400RPM hard drive qualifies as garbage for running El Capitan.

I would also classify the entry level 21.5" iMac hardware as garbage as well although it is a little bit better class of garbage then the Mini.

-KeithP
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
136
I ran into the same issue configuring an iMac on the apple store web.
Then, I went to mac mall and found one already upgraded to what I wanted for A LOT less than the apple store.
I suggest visiting mac mall web and getting what you want without busting the bank.
 

rugby

Senior member
Oct 11, 2001
437
0
0
Yet they still only have ~12% of the computer market.

I wonder since everything is converging what the % will be if iPads were included as well. Since MS has come out with Surface tablets/laptops that are hybrid devices.

"Computer market" doesn't mean what it did even 2 years ago.
 

Oyeve

Lifer
Oct 18, 1999
21,940
838
126
I wonder since everything is converging what the % will be if iPads were included as well. Since MS has come out with Surface tablets/laptops that are hybrid devices.

"Computer market" doesn't mean what it did even 2 years ago.

True. Though i think it would be near impossible to sort out all that user base info.
 

Rakehellion

Lifer
Jan 15, 2013
12,182
35
91
@Subyman

the argument that "just works" implies that Windows doesn't. You know fully well that even XP was stable, and only failed when the user pushed it by installing tons of freeware.

It isn't really a matter of stability, it's more driver issues and a frustrating interface.
 
Nov 20, 2009
10,051
2,577
136
I don't think Apple is really focused on computing anymore. There margin is in mobility toys. They are a tablet and cell phone company than anything else. They go where the money goes easily from the stupid.
 

rugby

Senior member
Oct 11, 2001
437
0
0
I don't think Apple is really focused on computing anymore. There margin is in mobility toys. They are a tablet and cell phone company than anything else. They go where the money goes easily from the stupid.

The money is in the App store. The hardware is just the platform to deliver it.
 

jaydee

Diamond Member
May 6, 2000
4,500
2
81
Apple wanted to pivot to being a more mainstream product. Their ads did that and they were ingenious and produced huge results for the company. I agree that Mac was and somewhat still is the industry standard for design applications and that pretty much only super nerds used them at the time, so the ads were dubious. The ads were meant to change Apple's image, which they handiedly did.

As for giving a more user friendly item to someone who is completely disinterested in learning about technology being a disservice to them, I do not agree. People have different interests and you can't expect every single person to fully understand everything they use on a daily basis. People have very busy lives and need the things in which they rely on to "just work."

Apple was the first to really embraced the fact that it's far easier to change public perspective about a brand with slick marketing than it is to make products that stand on their own.
 

Essence_of_War

Platinum Member
Feb 21, 2013
2,650
4
81
The money is in the App store. The hardware is just the platform to deliver it.

That's not really what the revenue numbers bear out.

iPhones and ipads make up almost 80% of apple's quarterly income, macs make up about 9%, and the app store + itunes is more like 8%.

The "real money" is in their hardware, but the existence of a regulated app store makes the hardware environment more appealing to buy into.
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
23,752
1,285
126
I hate the Mac App Store. Its implementation and limitations just suck.
 

jaydee

Diamond Member
May 6, 2000
4,500
2
81
That's not really what the revenue numbers bear out.

iPhones and ipads make up almost 80% of apple's quarterly income, macs make up about 9%, and the app store + itunes is more like 8%.

The "real money" is in their hardware, but the existence of a regulated app store makes the hardware environment more appealing to buy into.

Right, that's gross though, not net, right? I imagine the app store is almost pure profit, whereas iPhones/iPad have overhead. Of course, they did almost no work on the iPad this year (just put the 12.9" internals into already existing 9.7" form-factor) and up'd the cost so profit percentage has to be pretty healthy there.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,685
126
Right, that's gross though, not net, right? I imagine the app store is almost pure profit, whereas iPhones/iPad have overhead. Of course, they did almost no work on the iPad this year (just put the 12.9" internals into already existing 9.7" form-factor) and up'd the cost so profit percentage has to be pretty healthy there.

"Income" refers to profits (net). "Revenue" is the top line (gross). The app store may have higher profit margins (Income/Revenue) but in absolute terms, its profits are dwarfed by what Apple makes on its devices.
 
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