WoW Battleground

[Malladine]

Now granted, i've only played WSG 3 times and neither of the other two, but it just seems...

Well, we were rolled over every time. I barely hurt two or three players, killed maybe one. Most of the time I was kited by a couple of casters, stunned and killed by shaman, murdered in seconds by rogues.

The 3rd game last night they stuck together in a pack, stood outside the graveyard (off the small hill there) and just slaughtered anyone who attempted to leave the graveyard/base. Three of us went around and out the main entrance, they saw us and all of em charged in, we all died very quickly, I got one of them to half health. That's it.

Does it get any better or should I stick with the PvE game until less regimented non-instanced pvp is released? You'd think a more open pvp environment would prevent the kind of precise planning and strategizing that makes battlegrounds pretty much pointless for noobs like myself.

I suppose I could just keep trying and trying til I learn, but it seems to me I'd be relying a hell of a lot on my team to stick together. Just bunch up and you can win. Spread out and you lose. Besides, with such an apparently steep learning curve, I highly doubt my wife will be interested again. She insists there is just no point to it and I have a hard time disagreeing with that.

 

[Crusty]

I've done WSG about 10 times, and only lost once. They are very fun. I've also done AB a few times, I find it to be a lot more fun the WSG.

What lvl and class are you?

 

[Malladine]

29 druid

you're horde then?

I'd also like to add that it seems rogues completely dominate pvp. Unless you know they are there (as in a duel) you're dead. They camp where people drop down from the gy/leave the building and just slaughter. Must be great fun for them. Battlegrounds seem like a rogue's playground and very little more.

 

[Crusty]

Yeah, im a 32 UD Priest. I did the 20-29 WSG until I hit Scout then I lvled and moved on.

It really depends on who else is on your team, i've been on a team with 8 lvl 29's and we still lost while the Ally's only had 2-3 lvl 29. It's not all about lvl, more about teamwork. Never ever travel alone. I've found that it's a lot better to only have 2-3 people go get the flag while 3-4 more wait outside one of the entrances and help clear the way on the back. Never send the whole team out to get the flag leaving your wide open. It's always best to have at least 1 tank back guarding the flag, if possible with a healer. Sometimes I would stand on the roof, and heal the tank that was guarding the flag. This would give us enough time to get some help back, or just enough time to allow our flag carrier to get back and drop the flag off.

Always go for their healers first, starting with priests. I can't count how many times, we would be in a big group and I would stand in the back. As soon as i dropped one heal, it was like shining a 10000w spotlight on me, EVERYONE would run to me and I would die very quickly. No amount of fear, bubbling and healing could stop.

 

[HumblePie]

Originally posted by: Malladine
29 druid

you're horde then?

I'd also like to add that it seems rogues completely dominate pvp. Unless you know they are there (as in a duel) you're dead. They camp where people drop down from the gy/leave the building and just slaughter. Must be great fun for them. Battlegrounds seem like a rogue's playground and very little more.

Strategy, Strategy, Strategy.

That's what it takes and obviously you do not have it. What the 733t d3wdz call sk!lz.

Sorry for the crap talk there for a second, but seriously. Rogues do not dominate PVP. Neither do shamans, or anything like that. To counteract someone you need to know it's weaknesses. Want to know the best classes are to beat rogues with? Hunters and warriors. To kill casters and priests? rogues. To kill Shamans and paladins? Oh wait.. those guys are annoying but they are annoying for both sides. I usually have paladins go after shamans for us. Why? Ties up the shamans and realistically, a shaman can't kill a paladin. Not 1 on 1 ever. Neither can a pally kill the shaman if the shaman stays focused on the paladin. Which is exactly what you want to do. Tie the shaman up to focus on the paladin while the rest of your group slaughters their group. This is if you are alliance fighting horde.

Also, superior numbers does play in effect here. The more you have, the greater your chance of winning. That's not everything though. I've played both horde and alliance and been outnumbered in fights and out leveled and STILL won against the odds. Doesn't hapen often but if my groups coordination is superior to a larger force, we have a chance. Use Ventrillo or Teamspeak or some other voice tool to work with team mates. Also, just because you use a voice tool doesn't make your side have automatic coordination. Everyone still needs to be willing to work together and follow a leader while knowing their part to play. If you get into a bad vent channel with little kids spouting off stupid crap all the time like, "GG" and "L. O. L." and other stupid asanine online words and sounding like they got a decade to go before they reach puberty... you might not win.

If I go into a fight where I'm not 100% prepared to win, I know we are going to lose and then the outcome doesn't bother me. If we happen to win, it was because the other side sucked really badly, not because we were good. That happens with random and pickup games. If you win, great. If not, no sweat, it's a learning experience. If I go into pvp with a group I know we can win with and we do happen to lose, it's still no sweat because 1 loss is miniscule in comparison to the amount of wins we rack up. With a good pvp group, we analyze what went wrong to make us lose or what strat the other side employed and then learn to counteract that strat if we can. That is what makes pvp fun.

 

[BigJimSlade]

It takes a little time to get used to the BGs. You do have to rely pretty heavily on your teammates which can often times be very very frustrating. However they can be extremely fun if your team is willing to work together. I play on the alliance side and generally when we can get paladins to heal and not have everyone run in separate directions then we can win.

As for rogues, if they are travelling in packs and assisting each other they can be very lethal. 1v1 though they are like any other class...you just have to learn their weakness and exploit them. This can take time...I play a hunter and I used to get so frustrated at the fact that everyone would kick my tail in pvp. I even rerolled a priest and stopped playing the hunter all together for a few months. Then one day I picked him back up and started pretty much doing non-stop pvp and now I *can* (not that I always do) beat any class 1v1 (assuming they have comparable gear). I actually find rogues to be the easiest class to beat.

I've never played a druid so I can't really comment on how well they do against rogues, but I imagine many druids out there have a strong stragety for defeating them.

 

[Malladine]

Thing is, I know I can beat any of em 1 on 1, but they always always always have help. It's a team environment and I've yet to see, in my massive experience, an alliance team work together. Horde always stick together, Alliance always spread out.

And humble: it doesn't matter if I know weaknesses, at all. My whole team needs to work together and that hasn't happened yet, as mentioned above. I can come up with all sorts of ways to fight but once other people are added, it's all meaningless.

"kill that priest, get him! " *priest bubbles and charges all of us followed by his whole team* *we kill the priest, his team takes half of us out while we accomplish that then finish the rest of us off when he's dead*
I'm just really disappointed and discouraged about the whole battleground thing. I die so fast there's no time to do anything.

Surely the trick here is to play a lot more. Practice makes perfect right? But joining WSG to die over and over and over isn't fun...we were even gy camped by a hunter once.

Maybe IF we ever play again i'll get into the raid group that forms and immediately demand that everyone STAY TOGETHER AT ALL COSTS. And ask all Paladins to focus Shaman, and Hunters to focus Rogues from the back, same with Mages. And everyone attack priests before all other classes. But whether they'll listen when the fighting starts who the hell knows. Probably the undead rogues will stealth, slip in behind and kill our whole team while we're trying to take down their other classes.

 

[TGS]

Rogues are fairly easy to beat, pending their isn't two working you from behind. I don't think that I've lost to a rogue recently as they have pitiful ranged attacks and they are fairly easy to kite as a priest. I've even kited rogues that were skulls to me, as I could just counter their sprint powers with fear and dot them to death. Lol, now that I remember a ~3K HP rogue was PKing at Raven Hill with a lowbie buddy. I managed to kite him with a mechanical dragon and Shadow Word: Pain. With Rogues, DoTs are key as they can't restealth under DoT. You even have faerie fire so that's just as good. Just pop fire on them, change to bear or cat(probably bear), switching to caster for root and heals. Druids put up a tough fight between bear/cat and healing. Roots don't work so well against casters but against a warrior or a rogue and you can just shut them down while you heal to full.

Malladine, if you are a 29 druid, you can stealth and go around them and head for the flag. One of the nice things about being a stealth class. Also if they are in a big party 10-1 they won't have anyone guarding the flag. Pop your run power and nobody will be able to catch you. Making good use of your rooting powers outdoors is also a critical part of being a druid.

Now for priests, the game is called run. If you are healing then being swarmed just shield and run like a dog. They might get you but if it's more than a 2vs1 thats at least two people that aren't pounding on your flag carrier or defenders. Though I blame those autoassist macros, that key in on healing. *sigh* Frankly I wish you couldn't tell what the enemy spells being cast were until were effected by them. It not that hard to figure out what buffs/heals are being used. Though there is no way someguy fighting beyond your viewable area can magically sense some spell being cast from behind him, and sniff the air and say "HEALS!". That's just my opinion on that though. Being a engineer I'm going to make full use of my stun grenades, pets, and mind control helm. I can do well in a similiar leveled 2vs1. Heck I'm looking forward to a 2vs1 with a rogue, just so I can MC him and have him kill his buddy. :evil:

 

[Schadenfroh]

I have yet to try them. I am a priest and i think that i would just die too quickly before i could heal anyone else.

 

[Crusty]

As a priest, I can't wait til I respec at lvl 40 to a full shadow priest. Right now im disc/shadow, which is very nice for questing/grinding. Once I hit 40 though, respec to full shadow... then it's time to melt some faces!

 

[Malladine]

Root people, ok. Maybe if I fire then root melee characters I can see. I still need to be with my team though.

Maybe i'll take my wife and whoever we can get onto vent with and just camp the flag room. See how that works.

She is a mage. She is very frustrated, dying easier than i do and all.

 

[Malladine]

It's very intimidating to spawn from death, see only a few of your team mates around you, then see their whole team just jumping around, waiting for you to attack. What the hell are we supposed to do there. Jeez.

 

[BigJimSlade]

Druids get travel form at 30, right? Once you get that then you and your wife will be nasty in wsg. She sheeps one, AE ices down the rest...you grab the flag and take off. I have seen many druids win wsg matches with very little support from their team.

In AB, you guys may want to travel together and you let her do the damage while you do you best to keep her alive. I play my priest with a buddy that plays a mage and this is the tactic we used and it works real well.

I can completely understand your frustration with the alliance though. I wish I could say it is because you're lower level and no one at that level understands the importance of teamwork...but its not necessarily any better at level 60 (at least on my server).

On another note...I just threw in the 1v1 comments in my previous post because being a hunter I am faced with fighting rogues 1v1 all the time in AB. They like to creep up on me when I am blasting their friends....and I typically don't get much support fighting them off since I am behind everyone.

 

[Crusty]

Yeah, a priest with an AoE mage are deadly.

 

[Malladine]

What level does AB start?

Thing with healing a mage as a druid is my regrowth is mana intensive, only heals half hp initially and still takes 2.5 secs to cast. Forget healing touch, 3.5 secs, she's dead in that time. Regen isn't worth anything on a mage either. Kinda sucky that I can't keep my wife alive in pvp very well

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Getting a frost trap down while playing a hunter is key to clobbering stealth classes. Also a DE Hunter can setup ambush on the flag as they can shadowmeld and their ranged attack is nearly instant to activate.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Horde are always better than the alliance when taking into account PuG groups. That is basically that way on all the servers. When it comes to organized groups, it can go either way, with Horde still having an edge.

But as for getting slaughtered, wow... No offence, but you guys must really suck! Or at least your other team members.... Then again, horde always dominates.

With my L60 priest, I did like 6 matches of AB last night and won them all. That is nothing abnormal... The only time I loose is when the Alliance all star team goes against us, they are good... But then again, they are using Ventrilo, Epic Mounts, and are all rank 10+... So, they usually destroy out non ventrilo PuG horde group...

Anyway, I absolutely love the BG's! Good stuff!

 

[NeoV]

Druids get much more powerful soon...

you should get nature's grasp, and up the talents in that so that ANYONE who hits you in a melee battle will get rooted...you can also get nature's swiftness to make entangling roots cast instantly....remember that Druids have 2 different root spells, so even if 2 rogues are on you, you can root them and get away...travel form is also right around the corner for you, so you will be able to sprint away assuming you aren't stunned....

also, you can use Nature's swiftness to instant cast healing spells as well...and there is also a Nature's blessing talent that speeds up healing spells following a crit spell hit....

 

[Malladine]

Originally posted by: NeoV
Druids get much more powerful soon...

you should get nature's grasp, and up the talents in that so that ANYONE who hits you in a melee battle will get rooted...you can also get nature's swiftness to make entangling roots cast instantly....remember that Druids have 2 different root spells, so even if 2 rogues are on you, you can root them and get away...travel form is also right around the corner for you, so you will be able to sprint away assuming you aren't stunned....

also, you can use Nature's swiftness to instant cast healing spells as well...and there is also a Nature's blessing talent that speeds up healing spells following a crit spell hit....

They're better now yea, I went Feral though so no nature's blessing etc for me. My main problem is just being outnumbered. There always seem to be more of them than there are of us. Mainly because half our team is dead most of the time, heh.

 

[Joemonkey]

I have yet to do any BG... and I'm a lvl 58 warlock

i assume when I do go in all i will do is DOT the hell out of everything I see

 

[Malladine]

Maybe i'll change my focus from 36-37 pts feral and the rest balance to this:
Feral Combat Talents - 30 points

# Ferocity - rank 5/5
# Feral Instinct - rank 5/5
# Thick Hide - rank 5/5
# Sharpened Claws - rank 3/3
# Predatory Strikes - rank 3/3
# Blood Frenzy - rank 2/2
# Primal Fury - rank 2/2
# Heart of the Wild - rank 5/5

Restoration Talents - 21 points

# Improved Mark of the Wild - rank 5/5
# Improved Healing Touch - rank 5/5
# Nature's Focus - rank 5/5
# Tranquil Spirit - rank 5/5
# Nature's Swiftness - rank 1/1

How's that look?? Just noticed the improved entangling roots too, that would be very handy.

 

[TGS]

The most complementing duo is a mage and a priest. Sure you are both cloth and fairly squishy, but between both players, you can reliable crowd control 2 other players while putting the beat down on at least two more. Priest shields are fantastic for, the damage has to stop immediately scenarios. If only it scaled with +spell power *cries* My friend put up his mage though for a druid, and when we get together nothing short of a team or 3-4 of a few levels above us can take us down.

Seriously the only thing that I find annoying are shaman, stricly due to the near auto-purge mods that are out. Though if you want to get them to waste mana, just spam rank one inner fire, and toss out a mana burn or two for luck.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: TGS
The most complementing duo is a mage and a priest. Sure you are both cloth and fairly squishy, but between both players, you can reliable crowd control 2 other players while putting the beat down on at least two more. Priest shields are fantastic for, the damage has to stop immediately scenarios. If only it scaled with +spell power *cries* My friend put up his mage though for a druid, and when we get together nothing short of a team or 3-4 of a few levels above us can take us down.

Seriously the only thing that I find annoying are shaman, stricly due to the near auto-purge mods that are out. Though if you want to get them to waste mana, just spam rank one inner fire, and toss out a mana burn or two for luck.

The shield isn't very good at L60, that is for sure. 960 HP isn't much :-/ It would be nice if +Healing or +Damage & Healing work for that shield, that is for sure. But being that instant spells only use like 43% of the +damage or healing, it will not go far. I am running with about +250 spell damage right now and according to my math, if those shield changes were implemented, it would be like 1075 HP or so, instead of the 960? or so that it is.

Preists don't really do any CC when deal with PVP. You really cannot count mind control, because it is broken very easily, and when someone hits you... Not to mention, you just sit there like a dummy in the other characters mind

 

[cKGunslinger]

Wow - I can't believe so many people have never tried BGs. Battle Grounds are what keep me paying $15/month. I don't do them all the time, but they make for a nice break every once in while from PvE action, questing, and grinding.

Communication and teamwork is, obviously, the key to sucess. I've been in many, many Alliance PuGs that are destined to fail, and they typically do. The best BG action (I like AB) is had when you join as a group with a few guild-mates. You don't have to fill the whole team, but 4-5 is plenty to turn the tides of battle, if others are willing to listen a bit.

 

[TGS]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

The shield isn't very good at L60, that is for sure. 960 HP isn't much :-/ It would be nice if +Healing or +Damage & Healing work for that shield, that is for sure. But being that instant spells only use like 43% of the +damage or healing, it will not go far. I am running with about +250 spell damage right now and according to my math, if those shield changes were implemented, it would be like 1075 HP or so, instead of the 960? or so that it is.

Preists don't really do any CC when deal with PVP. You really cannot count mind control, because it is broken very easily, and when someone hits you... Not to mention, you just sit there like a dummy in the other characters mind

Yes, but at least it should scale like epic weapons. I've been hearing a lot about how spells aren't scaling like epic weapons are giving the edge to the melee crowd. If only there were some epic spell drops.

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Wow - I can't believe so many people have never tried BGs. Battle Grounds are what keep me paying $15/month. I don't do them all the time, but they make for a nice break every once in while from PvE action, questing, and grinding.

Communication and teamwork is, obviously, the key to sucess. I've been in many, many Alliance PuGs that are destined to fail, and they typically do. The best BG action (I like AB) is had when you join as a group with a few guild-mates. You don't have to fill the whole team, but 4-5 is plenty to turn the tides of battle, if others are willing to listen a bit.

Yeah, I've been grinding out out for 40 so I can go in full face melt mode. I have around 160 HK from solo and some duo killing. I'm fairly good at taking down those around my levels but in a group environment I have yet to get in real big fights. Though I'm sure to disappoint a few people as I'm a master at ninja kills. I have to be to get a near constant spirit tap proc. :laugh:

I'm probably going to run my first real BG tonight, and experience the pain of being target numero uno. Oh I'm going to be packing a lot of mithril frags tonight, boys and girls... I know in the patch notes they mentioned mind control helms get diminishing returns. I'm curious on this, as does this mean you can carry around multiple helms?