Wow. Bitcoin is almost $1,500

[Zeze]

You know, if you assume that bitcoin started it all, the crypto/blockchain markets are 9 years old, almost a decade. An eternity really in technology space. Up until recently it was all games, fueled in part by bitcoin believers, hobbyists, libertarians, gold bugs, or crazy speculators looking to get rich quick. However, in the last few years we've seen multiple projects created aiming to solve actual real world business problems by using blockchain. I think we're in the midst of transformation. The next 1-3 years are going to be transfigurative. I think we'll see a lot of coins without real world application fade into obscurity, but the ones that solve actual business problems will thrive. Guys, I think we're maturing. I think time for pump and dump get rich quick schemes is coming to an end. It's quite likely that the next google/amazon/facebook of blockchain is already out there or about to be born shortly. If you ever regretted not picking up apple, or google, or facebook, or amazon, or netflix, or tesla, or microsoft stock when they were just little companies looking to make their mark in the world, now is your chance. I do believe that blockchain tech is going to be transformative, and it's time to change your strategy. It's time to hop off the crypto gamble investment wagon, and start looking for the next google of blockchain. It's time to actually start researching the crypto projects in the hope of finding the next gem that will go the distance. It's time to start investing smart instead of hoping on the crypto bandwagon hoping the rising crypto market will lift you up too.

But hey, that's just my opinion, what do I know?

I agree and well said. Your sentiment seems to be gaining popularity too.

I'm not worried about my clear use-case product VeChain (only coin chosen by VC Jim Breyer). But my biggest fear is this:

Why does Blockchain as a Service need to be a third party? Tons of private giant companies & banks are already well into making their own PRIVATE blockchains.

Then WTF is the point of the entire crypto movement? Why pay someone when you can have an in-house solution?

That's my biggest concern, not crypto themselves.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I still haven't funded my Coinbase, GDAX, and Binance accounts. I have money sitting in my checking account ready to go but haven't transferred over because I just don't fully trust the exchanges with my money. I'm not scared of crypto volatility but rather the exchanges. I'm just not that confident these exchanges are not going to screw me when time comes.

So, it's odd that no one commented on my post earlier, but Robinhood is starting to do free crypto trading for BTC, ETH and one other (they may expand to more later). Robinhood is a trusted broker to look into. What I can't say is how quick those transactions will be...but I am sure we'll know soon enough.

I am with you as well. I don't trust Coinbase at all. I have a Binance account, but I don't really trust it either.

 

[ponyo]

So, it's odd that no one commented on my post earlier, but Robinhood is starting to do free crypto trading for BTC, ETH and one other (they may expand to more later). Robinhood is a trusted broker to look into. What I can't say is how quick those transactions will be...but I am sure we'll know soon enough.

I am with you as well. I don't trust Coinbase at all. I have a Binance account, but I don't really trust it either.

I looked at Robinhood when I heard the announcement but the crypto trading will be only available in 5 states.

 

[zinfamous]

I don't trust Coinbase & GDAX (same company).

I trust Binance just fine.

A great fiat-entry exchange alternative is Gemini (owned by Winklevoss twins of FB). You may want to at least sign up and get verified in advance so it's not a bottleneck. Their verification took 43 days for me (I just got cleared last week).

Oh man, I bet they'd love that association.

 

[zinfamous]

You know, if you assume that bitcoin started it all, the crypto/blockchain markets are 9 years old, almost a decade. An eternity really in technology space. Up until recently it was all games, fueled in part by bitcoin believers, hobbyists, libertarians, gold bugs, or crazy speculators looking to get rich quick. However, in the last few years we've seen multiple projects created aiming to solve actual real world business problems by using blockchain. I think we're in the midst of transformation. The next 1-3 years are going to be transfigurative. I think we'll see a lot of coins without real world application fade into obscurity, but the ones that solve actual business problems will thrive.

Guys, I think we're maturing. I think time for pump and dump get rich quick schemes is coming to an end. It's quite likely that the next google/amazon/facebook of blockchain is already out there or about to be born shortly. If you ever regretted not picking up apple, or google, or facebook, or amazon, or netflix, or tesla, or microsoft stock when they were just little companies looking to make their mark in the world, now is your chance. I do believe that blockchain tech is going to be transformative, and it's time to change your strategy. It's time to hop off the crypto gamble investment wagon, and start looking for the next google of blockchain. It's time to actually start researching the crypto projects in the hope of finding the next gem that will go the distance. It's time to start investing smart instead of hopping on the crypto bandwagon hoping the rising crypto market will lift you up too.

But hey, that's just my opinion, what do I know?

Yes, I think this is very accurate. So, who are those magnificent bastards that are so poised to own this market?

 

[Blackjack200]

Yes, I think this is very accurate. So, who are those magnificent bastards that are so poised to own this market?

Why? What's the utility of blockchain outside of cryptocurrencies?

Full disclosure, I spent a few hours watching youtube explainers on the subject, and I get that the technical implementation of a blockchain including the actual encryption protocols are substantially beyond my expertise, but everything I saw looked like a kludge. I have yet to see anyone suggest a utility for blockchain that makes sense to me.

Even if there was a utility, I don't see how it's something you can invest in. Isn't a blockchain just a theoretical data structure like a linked list? I can't "invest in" SQL, linked lists, stacks, algorithms, etc.

 

[Red Storm]

Why? What's the utility of blockchain outside of cryptocurrencies?

Full disclosure, I spent a few hours watching youtube explainers on the subject, and I get that the technical implementation of a blockchain including the actual encryption protocols are substantially beyond my expertise, but everything I saw looked like a kludge. I have yet to see anyone suggest a utility for blockchain that makes sense to me.

Even if there was a utility, I don't see how it's something you can invest in. Isn't a blockchain just a theoretical data structure like a linked list? I can't "invest in" SQL, linked lists, stacks, algorithms, etc.

You're investing in the companies that are implementing blockchain in the real world. Look up VeChain and their partnership with DNV GL for one (massive) example.

 

[fleshconsumed]

I agree and well said. Your sentiment seems to be gaining popularity too.

I'm not worried about my clear use-case product VeChain (only coin chosen by VC Jim Breyer). But my biggest fear is this:

Why does Blockchain as a Service need to be a third party? Tons of private giant companies & banks are already well into making their own PRIVATE blockchains.

Then WTF is the point of the entire crypto movement? Why pay someone when you can have an in-house solution?

That's my biggest concern, not crypto themselves.

Yes, you're right, that is one of my worries as well. My two biggest worries are:
1. Existing tech giants taking over blockchain development effectively killing off third party up and comers
2. Crypto bloodbath drying up investments in legit and promising blockchain start ups

Either one of those can put a quick stop to the next IBM of blockchain. AFAIK most if not all of the new blockchain products are financed by some form of ICO or institutional investment. If a huge crypto panic spooks investors and those sources of money dry up in a critical moment, then this could kill an otherwise promising project before ever taking off. I don't care about bitcoin price, but I do care that it may affect investment into legit projects. It sucks that entire ctypro market is tied to a coin that has no practical use other than speculative gambling, but unfortunately that's how it is right now. I really think that the sooner we decouple from bitcoin as the reserve crypto currency and the number one representative of the crypto markets, the better off we'll be. Realistically speaking I think it's going to be a slow and painful death, it's going to drag on for what feels like forever, but once that is over then the real progress can begin.

And as you rightly said, it may play into tech giants hands. It is all but certain that existing tech giants are playing around with blockchain. My fear is that not only they're going to create their own blockchain product, but that they're going to sell it to everybody else. They did it with email, with cloud as a service, cloud as an infrastructure, they took over all of our communications. They killed ISP emails, even schools use gmail now, they killed ICQ/IRC, we all use facebook or hangouts to communicate, they dominate cloud services now leaving no room for small players to expand. So yes, that is a very real risk. They have the advantage of size and resources, unlike third party start ups they can keep financing their blockchain projects internally independant of what the world is doing around them. The advantage that small third party players have is that they can move quickly, and that they could take the established industry by surprise just like facebook did with MySpace years ago. Only time will tell which side will prevail.

 

[destrekor]

Yes, you're right, that is one of my worries as well. My two biggest worries are:
1. Existing tech giants taking over blockchain development effectively killing off third party up and comers
2. Crypto bloodbath drying up investments in legit and promising blockchain start ups

Either one of those can put a quick stop to the next IBM of blockchain. AFAIK most if not all of the new blockchain products are financed by some form of ICO or institutional investment. If a huge crypto panic spooks investors and those sources of money dry up in a critical moment, then this could kill an otherwise promising project before ever taking off. I don't care about bitcoin price, but I do care that it may affect investment into legit projects. It sucks that entire ctypro market is tied to a coin that has no practical use other than speculative gambling, but unfortunately that's how it is right now. I really think that the sooner we decouple from bitcoin as the reserve crypto currency and the number one representative of the crypto markets, the better off we'll be. Realistically speaking I think it's going to be a slow and painful death, it's going to drag on for what feels like forever, but once that is over then the real progress can begin.

And as you rightly said, it may play into tech giants hands. It is all but certain that existing tech giants are playing around with blockchain. My fear is that not only they're going to create their own blockchain product, but that they're going to sell it to everybody else. They did it with email, with cloud as a service, cloud as an infrastructure, they took over all of our communications. They killed ISP emails, even schools use gmail now, they killed ICQ/IRC, we all use facebook or hangouts to communicate, they dominate cloud services now leaving no room for small players to expand. So yes, that is a very real risk. They have the advantage of size and resources, unlike third party start ups they can keep financing their blockchain projects internally independant of what the world is doing around them. The advantage that small third party players have is that they can move quickly, and that they could take the established industry by surprise just like facebook did with MySpace years ago. Only time will tell which side will prevail.

The giants didn't kill those examples, heck some giants had their own versions of said examples that even failed. The public decided which ones were popular and if they received continued development then those are the ones that took off. Let the best product offerings win out. We don't need a billion competing versions of email servers, just like we don't need a hundreds of similar blockchain solutions. I think some big players will want to have a major piece of the pie, but existing offerings like Ethereum, NEM/Mijin, etc will likely serve many individual companies that absolutely do not want to create their own custom solution. Those big players may very well develop their own in-house, but just like with SQL, few companies are interested in developing their own custom flavor of SQL, they'd rather use a proven established database server.

 

[DaveSimmons]

I agree and well said. Your sentiment seems to be gaining popularity too.

I'm not worried about my clear use-case product VeChain (only coin chosen by VC Jim Breyer). But my biggest fear is this:

Why does Blockchain as a Service need to be a third party? Tons of private giant companies & banks are already well into making their own PRIVATE blockchains.

Then WTF is the point of the entire crypto movement? Why pay someone when you can have an in-house solution?

That's my biggest concern, not crypto themselves.

> Why pay someone when you can have an in-house solution?

That's what I've been saying in coin enthusiast threads for awhile now. The tech that was packaged together for bitcoin already existed from academic research, and as far as I know there are no patent holders. It's also a lot harder now to get a patent on math or doing things "on a computer."

Why would Wells Fargo trust and use DogeCoin for their transactions instead of grouping up with a few other financial megacorps to create in-house bankcoins and more efficient, non-anonymous & not-distributed blockchain ledgers.

Wells Fargo and Starbucks aren't libertarian extremists, they have no need for darkweb anonymity, and thanks to their lobbyists they are part of government not fighting it. They can also buy our build their own ASICs instead of outsourcing.

 

[Red Storm]

> Why pay someone when you can have an in-house solution?

That's what I've been saying in coin enthusiast threads for awhile now. The tech that was packaged together for bitcoin already existed from academic research, and as far as I know there are no patent holders. It's also a lot harder now to get a patent on math or doing things "on a computer."

Why would Wells Fargo trust and use DogeCoin for their transactions instead of grouping up with a few other financial megacorps to create in-house bankcoins and more efficient, non-anonymous & not-distributed blockchain ledgers.

Wells Fargo and Starbucks aren't libertarian extremists, they have no need for darkweb anonymity, and thanks to their lobbyists they are part of government not fighting it. They can also buy our build their own ASICs instead of outsourcing.

Not many companies have the budget, technical capability and manpower to do their own in-house solutions. Bitcoin, Dogecoin, darkweb, fighting the government, and digital currency have nothing to do with this. Again, look at the example of DNV GL partnering with VeChain to develop and implement blockchain. Why didn't they just build it themselves? I believe the extremely tech focused companies like Google and Amazon will definitely develop their own in-house solution, but that's because they're among the most valuable companies in the world and have the capability to do it. It'll be the exception, not the norm.

 

[zinfamous]

Why? What's the utility of blockchain outside of cryptocurrencies?

Full disclosure, I spent a few hours watching youtube explainers on the subject, and I get that the technical implementation of a blockchain including the actual encryption protocols are substantially beyond my expertise, but everything I saw looked like a kludge. I have yet to see anyone suggest a utility for blockchain that makes sense to me.

Even if there was a utility, I don't see how it's something you can invest in. Isn't a blockchain just a theoretical data structure like a linked list? I can't "invest in" SQL, linked lists, stacks, algorithms, etc.

You couldn't invest in algorithms until Google became a thing, remember?

I'm probably making a complete hash of it, but the way I understand it, blockchains can be used as the primary pipeline for highly secure, efficient encryption needs. It's essentially unbreakable as each "gate" along the chain between the sender and receiver requires. each gate along the chain is basically a "token" or cryptocoin, as they are now used, which are unique and now exist due to an extensive amount of math to create them--once created, they are single tokens specific to that gate. If you hold all of the tokens along that gate, then communication through that pipeline is instant, yet highly secure.

As I understand, that is not exactly what cryptos are used for currently, where their speculative value is tied, but that is the underlying technology behind where blockchain can be used repurposed for something that is actually useful.

 

[ponyo]

Banks will ban and/or treat crypto purchases using credit cards as cash advance. It's crazy they allowed you to buy coins using credit cards in the first place. I hope everyone took advantage and bought the coins using credit cards and will leave the banks hold the bag when the bubble burst.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Not many companies have the budget, technical capability and manpower to do their own in-house solutions. Bitcoin, Dogecoin, darkweb, fighting the government, and digital currency have nothing to do with this. Again, look at the example of DNV GL partnering with VeChain to develop and implement blockchain. Why didn't they just build it themselves? I believe the extremely tech focused companies like Google and Amazon will definitely develop their own in-house solution, but that's because they're among the most valuable companies in the world and have the capability to do it. It'll be the exception, not the norm.

If there is a significant market, Amazon will add blockchain services and private coins to AWS, Microsoft to Azure, and Google to their cloud services. "Game over man!" to the little guys.

 

[Blackjack200]

You couldn't invest in algorithms until Google became a thing, remember?

I'm probably making a complete hash of it, but the way I understand it, blockchains can be used as the primary pipeline for highly secure, efficient encryption needs. It's essentially unbreakable as each "gate" along the chain between the sender and receiver requires. each gate along the chain is basically a "token" or cryptocoin, as they are now used, which are unique and now exist due to an extensive amount of math to create them--once created, they are single tokens specific to that gate. If you hold all of the tokens along that gate, then communication through that pipeline is instant, yet highly secure.

As I understand, that is not exactly what cryptos are used for currently, where their speculative value is tied, but that is the underlying technology behind where blockchain can be used repurposed for something that is actually useful.

Blockchain is efficient? I thought the way it worked was that in order to authenticate a single block you had to authenticate every preceding block going back to the beginning. That seems like a huge overhead that grows over time.

 

[Yakk]

Having a centralized trusted database is easy, everyone has those.

Having a decentralized trustless database is a lot harder, and still is developmental infancy in comparison.

 

[Hugo Drax]

Worth buying in at under 10k? Or just keep avoiding it at this point?

Why would you think of investing in this pyramid scheme. I would avoid it.

What i do not understand is Bitcoin is not new but all of the sudden everyone comes out of the woodworks and wants to invest into this monopoly money when its trading in 10-20K a token.

Why were you guys not interested when it was in 300 dollars and under wager? Its always the same kind of person who waits till the top of the bubble before getting in.

They did it with stocks,properties etc. now Bitcoin

 

[Hugo Drax]

I quoted a wrong person. LOL.

Anyways, I think there's something different about this dip because 2011 & 2013 were pretty unknown back then. But 2017... bitcoin had massive mainstream coverage & exposure. All the kids rushed in and bought in massive amounts at Q3, Q4 of 2017. And they're now all exiting.

The fad of mainstream BTC coverage seems to be over.

I personally don't expect Bitcoin to bounce back with a fierce force. It's just an old tech and outdated with near ZERO business use case.

I think Bitcoin will recover to the previous ATH (19.8K), but it will take its time. Then it'll slowly dwindle again to irrelevancy in next few years. And hopefully QUALITY altcoins with real products/partnerships/revenue start to be unpaired from Bitcoin and rise/dip independently.

What do I know.

I dont see it ever hitting 19k that was the big propup to get all the dumb money going FOMO and liquidating 401Ks,taking second mortgages,loading up credit cards to go long bitcoin in a very thin market while the whales drip drip drip coins for cash in thier pockets.

This will go down in history as one of the most epic bubble /ponzi in history people actually paying money for thin air.

Cryptocurrency has no utility. No one is going to conduct buisness with a currency that has massive daily swings and thin markets with nothing backing it.

The only utility it seems to have is for buying weed,hookers,coke and paying cyber ransom.

 

[Hugo Drax]

> Why pay someone when you can have an in-house solution?

That's what I've been saying in coin enthusiast threads for awhile now. The tech that was packaged together for bitcoin already existed from academic research, and as far as I know there are no patent holders. It's also a lot harder now to get a patent on math or doing things "on a computer."

Why would Wells Fargo trust and use DogeCoin for their transactions instead of grouping up with a few other financial megacorps to create in-house bankcoins and more efficient, non-anonymous & not-distributed blockchain ledgers.

Wells Fargo and Starbucks aren't libertarian extremists, they have no need for darkweb anonymity, and thanks to their lobbyists they are part of government not fighting it. They can also buy our build their own ASICs instead of outsourcing.

The whole blockchain tech will eventually be something used by the big companies with actual financial backing and security. All these gimmick tokens will dissapear since they offer no utility.

It will be something regulated and issued by a consortium of big banks and financial institutions with backing by real assets.

 

[destrekor]

Why would you think of investing in this pyramid scheme. I would avoid it.

What i do not understand is Bitcoin is not new but all of the sudden everyone comes out of the woodworks and wants to invest into this monopoly money when its trading in 10-20K a token.

Why were you guys not interested when it was in 300 dollars and under wager? Its always the same kind of person who waits till the top of the bubble before getting in.

They did it with stocks,properties etc. now Bitcoin

Umm, because nobody had heard of it at the time. Those that did were largely those who were obsessed with technology in the first place, quite a small group. And some of those did buy in and sit on it, while others figured it was never going to last.

But now it has global exposure, it's everywhere, so people who would have never learned about it years ago are now learning about it.

I agree bitcoin itself is largely pointless anymore, other blockchains do it better and offer more utility, but BTC has become the defacto standard-bearer when it comes to investing and market-watching.

I dont see it ever hitting 19k that was the big propup to get all the dumb money going FOMO and liquidating 401Ks,taking second mortgages,loading up credit cards to go long bitcoin in a very thin market while the whales drip drip drip coins for cash in thier pockets.

This will go down in history as one of the most epic bubble /ponzi in history people actually paying money for thin air.

Cryptocurrency has no utility. No one is going to conduct buisness with a currency that has massive daily swings and thin markets with nothing backing it.

The only utility it seems to have is for buying weed,hookers,coke and paying cyber ransom.

Failure of imagination. Also, BTC is not remotely a ponzi scheme, to say so is to admit you have zero understanding of what a ponzi scheme is. BTC is far from perfect but there is zero promise of riches and no central investor group that has absolute control over the buying/selling, unlike say BitConnect or the actual PonziCoin. lol

But I also just don't see how the bubble is popped yet - for anyone that actually follows investing, you'd see what is happening now is a standard retrace and it's been bouncing around a key Fibonacci retrace level (50% of the low:high for 2017). It may very well stay down here for weeks or months, but the true market participation of crypto still pales in comparison to other investment vehicles, and thus more people are going to crawl out of the woodwork to take a peek. And BTC specifically has been prone to these massive retraces. BTC has often stood as a stellar example of wave theory, it just happens to be ridiculously volatile so the swings are rather large. Especially considering that 2017 was such a stellar year for BTC, it had/has a lot to retrace to get it back on track. It can't go straight up forever. Just sucks for those that got caught buying at the top. It's also a gamble buying at the top because it may or may not be the real top. Sure it's an all time high but all all time highs eventually fall to new highs,

 

[OverVolt]

People reverse mortgaging their homes to buy bitcoin was the top. What else could people have possibly thrown at bitcoin other than their home equity?

If you cashed out at the top you were getting other people's homes and shit for your digital coins.

Look at the human behavior aspect above all else.

 

[OverVolt]

Umm, because nobody had heard of it at the time. Those that did were largely those who were obsessed with technology in the first place, quite a small group. And some of those did buy in and sit on it, while others figured it was never going to last.

But now it has global exposure, it's everywhere, so people who would have never learned about it years ago are now learning about it.

I agree bitcoin itself is largely pointless anymore, other blockchains do it better and offer more utility, but BTC has become the defacto standard-bearer when it comes to investing and market-watching.




Failure of imagination. Also, BTC is not remotely a ponzi scheme, to say so is to admit you have zero understanding of what a ponzi scheme is. BTC is far from perfect but there is zero promise of riches and no central investor group that has absolute control over the buying/selling, unlike say BitConnect or the actual PonziCoin. lol

But I also just don't see how the bubble is popped yet - for anyone that actually follows investing, you'd see what is happening now is a standard retrace and it's been bouncing around a key Fibonacci retrace level (50% of the low:high for 2017). It may very well stay down here for weeks or months, but the true market participation of crypto still pales in comparison to other investment vehicles, and thus more people are going to crawl out of the woodwork to take a peek. And BTC specifically has been prone to these massive retraces. BTC has often stood as a stellar example of wave theory, it just happens to be ridiculously volatile so the swings are rather large. Especially considering that 2017 was such a stellar year for BTC, it had/has a lot to retrace to get it back on track. It can't go straight up forever. Just sucks for those that got caught buying at the top. It's also a gamble buying at the top because it may or may not be the real top. Sure it's an all time high but all all time highs eventually fall to new highs,

Yea historically a 90% drop followed by 2-3 years of nothing. I know the chart. Its just not that fun when its not "eh fuck it" money anymore.

Hey you didn't see me reverse mortgaging my house for a risky internet token.

About the whole bubble thing. My take on this is that the market capitalization numbers are a lie. Market capitalization is for equities. If a company were to buy out another they'd acquire the underlying company/assets/business, an actual wealth producing entity worth its market capitalization.

Simple multiplying the number of coins by the current price does not mean bitcoin is worth its market capitalization. Last I heard when bitcoin's market cap was $300bn it was predication upon $6bn of cash inflows into the crypto space.

As the doors close on these crashes you aren't getting your share of $300bn, there is only $6bn of cash at play.

Statistically something like 99.98% of you are going to get burned compared to the market top because the $300bn was never there. There is $6bn of cash at play in this. Which the HOLD'ers just scoff'ed at and said you wish, I have coinz.

That guy who sold his litecoin is doing it right.

 

[Hugo Drax]

It is a ponzi scheme. The majority of bitcoin is controlled by a small percentage of users, the ones who got in early and amassed a large amount. They Now sell to the suckers at insane price while they cash out. The suckers who bought were hoping to find the next sucker to pay more.

As long as there are newer people willing to part with thier cash to buy the scheme works.

It smells like your classic HYIP game popular with islanders. The funny thing is they know it is a scam and play it trying to profit as fast as possible before thr HYIP stops paying out due to lack of new suckers.

Once the Bitcoin HYIP runs out of new greater fools, game over.

 

[OverVolt]

The whole blockchain tech will eventually be something used by the big companies with actual financial backing and security. All these gimmick tokens will dissapear since they offer no utility.

It will be something regulated and issued by a consortium of big banks and financial institutions with backing by real assets.

It'll never be mainstream. Whats mainstream is the current clearing houses that banks use daily.

Cryptocurrency is a tool. Hell, I bet even some entire countries are moving funds around the world globally with bitcoins on the down low specifically to avoid banks. But it will never replace banks.

One reason is the same reason for bitcoins scarcity: you lose it and its gone. Screwups happen and banks are able to adjust their ledgers to make good on mistakes and fraud. Money out of thin air as people complain. Bitcoin will never be like that. It is entirely at your own risk.

 

[pete6032]

The fact that the wealth is concentrated among a small group of people does not make it a ponzi scheme. That is how most currencies work.