Wow. Bitcoin is almost $1,500

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ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
No offense man, but when you're talking crypto value, you're talking currency. No one is 'betting' on actual uses. Sure maybe there's a few long players, but that is by no means what 99% of the people with money in it are interested in. And realistically 'coins' and 'tech' are completely separate entities and you don't hear people dropping 10k on the tech.
 

skull

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2000
2,209
327
126
Whats up with that vechain you guys were were raving about earlier this year. You almost had me tempted to gamble with some. Now its showing on a chart like it just started this month. I remember when it was at $5 but it says its highest price ever is .019.
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,233
234
106
Whats up with that vechain you guys were were raving about earlier this year. You almost had me tempted to gamble with some. Now its showing on a chart like it just started this month. I remember when it was at $5 but it says its highest price ever is .019.
There was a token swap (from the etherium blockchain to their own blockchain), also a 1:100 split. So what used to be 1 VEN is now 100 VET. Value is definitely down like all of crypto. All time high was around ~$8 I believe, which would be $0.08 in VET today. It's currently at around ~$0.015. I still have my holdings and do believe the value will go up as more and more usage is shown on their blockchain. They have so many big partnerships that now it's about waiting to see those partnerships put into action which will take time. I have near zero worry about what I've invested, it's money I can afford to lose and I feel pretty certain in its eventual rise as it's one of the few coins in crypto that will actually be used by people/companies.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,815
11,171
136
I didn't say it is. I said why the same issue for crypto doesn't apply to the dollar.

Perhaps you should learn from my post and respond to the merits.

I did read your post, and your enumerations. Not once did you mention utility tokens, which make up a large share of the projects out there still getting interest. You mentioned collectibles and things like that? How does that even relate to crypto projects?

No offense man, but when you're talking crypto value, you're talking currency. No one is 'betting' on actual uses. Sure maybe there's a few long players, but that is by no means what 99% of the people with money in it are interested in. And realistically 'coins' and 'tech' are completely separate entities and you don't hear people dropping 10k on the tech.

I dropped what was for me a ton of money on the tech. Most of the ETH early adopters did the same. When you go after the hype bandwagon alone without considering the underlying technology, you get caught up in (or opposition to) the hype yourself. Don't believe the hype.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
I did read your post, and your enumerations. Not once did you mention utility tokens, which make up a large share of the projects out there still getting interest. You mentioned collectibles and things like that? How does that even relate to crypto projects?



I dropped what was for me a ton of money on the tech. Most of the ETH early adopters did the same. When you go after the hype bandwagon alone without considering the underlying technology, you get caught up in (or opposition to) the hype yourself. Don't believe the hype.

If you were buying coins you were speculating, not buying the tech. That is the difference here.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
I did read your post, and your enumerations. Not once did you mention utility tokens, which make up a large share of the projects out there still getting interest. You mentioned collectibles and things like that? How does that even relate to crypto projects?

Because I'm saying that I think a lot of the money going into buying crypto is because it's a bubble like other bubbles, and people speculating to get a profit as an 'investment'.

The other things mentioned like painting/collectibles were discussing other items people buy for similar reasons and why they're similar or different.[/QUOTE]
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,815
11,171
136
If you were buying coins you were speculating, not buying the tech. That is the difference here.

An educated guess is still educated. I wasn't chart trading. The white papers looked good, the talent was there, the underlying tech in development looked like it could improve (which sadly has been a slower process than anticipated). If all you did was chart trade, there were all kinds of ways to blow your money on crypto in 2016 that would have performed badly compared to Ethereum. Litecoin, ugh.

Because I'm saying that I think a lot of the money going into buying crypto is because it's a bubble like other bubbles, and people speculating to get a profit as an 'investment'.

The other things mentioned like painting/collectibles were discussing other items people buy for similar reasons and why they're similar or different.

Here is the problem, that money is not going to be relevant to the long-term growth of crypto projects. Any project that is dependent on speculation to generate interest is doomed to failure. Period. The outlier is Bitcoin since it only marginally claims to carry out its originally-intended function. Unless you are an LN evangelist, then it's the greatest currency on the world. Bleh.

If you want to know the underlying value of crypto projects, you have to look past the speculators and hype-artists and see what real-world benefits there are to be had in the (hopefully near) future. Many of the more-credible projects like EOS, OMG, IOTA, etc. are trying to do something useful that will have real monetary value to people. Not gonna say that they're all going to be successful; that's the intrinsic risk to anyone who is "investing in the tech". There's only so much space at the top. Good projects will eventually wipe out the bad ones.
 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
136
I ended up coming out even...

... by not buying into anything.

I would argue that enjoying the misery of the evangelists over the last nine months has been a net positive. If you haven't been doing that you should try it.

I'm still absolutely convinced all this nonsense is going to zero but I will admit to being wrong about the timescale.

Viper GTS
 
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thomcrown

Junior Member
Mar 21, 2017
2
0
6
www.potentiam.io
I did read your post, and your enumerations. Not once did you mention utility tokens, which make up a large share of the projects out there still getting interest. You mentioned collectibles and things like that? How does that even relate to crypto projects?



I dropped what was for me a ton of money on the tech. Most of the ETH early adopters did the same. When you go after the hype bandwagon alone without considering the underlying technology, you get caught up in (or opposition to) the hype yourself. Don't believe the hype.

Unfortunately when it comes to crypto most forget about the use case and focus solely on the speculative aspect it possesses.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
Unfortunately when it comes to crypto most forget about the use case and focus solely on the speculative aspect it possesses.

Does a crypto coins value in anyway have anything to do with what the underlying tech is worth? That is the problem here. Buying coins does not equal the tech. The coin could be completely worthless but the tech great - used for something else. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
136
Does a crypto coins value in anyway have anything to do with what the underlying tech is worth? That is the problem here. Buying coins does not equal the tech. The coin could be completely worthless but the tech great - used for something else. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Clearly you don't understand, they are valuable because they are scarce. There are only 21 million of them, you'll need them in the future, you'd best grab them now!

Viper GTS
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,815
11,171
136
I would argue that enjoying the misery of the evangelists over the last nine months has been a net positive. If you haven't been doing that you should try it.

Did you enjoy it when they cashed out last Dec/Jan at a huge profit? Hell Buterin sold ~$30 million in crypto last December. He publicly asked what the Ethereum project had done to earn such a high price, the clear implication that nothing had changed enough to justify the market movement.

I'm still absolutely convinced all this nonsense is going to zero but I will admit to being wrong about the timescale.

Given a long enough arc of history, even gold could go to $0/0 EUR. Though it'll probably outlast the dollar and Euro.

Unfortunately when it comes to crypto most forget about the use case and focus solely on the speculative aspect it possesses.

True. It's a shame though, and I see it happening on both sides of the crypto-coin. The evangelists push hype, the skeptics attack it. What gets lost beneath all the noise is the technology, the good and the bad.

Does a crypto coins value in anyway have anything to do with what the underlying tech is worth?

In most cases no, though it often shapes where the "smart" money is going to go. The least-technically feasible projects are often the least stable and have the highest rates of failure. Many crypto projects are already effectively dead with tokens that don't even trade on exchanges anymore.

That is the problem here. Buying coins does not equal the tech. The coin could be completely worthless but the tech great - used for something else. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The idea of tokenization of assets, up to this point, is that the underlying blockchain (or in IOTA's case, "tangle") requires tokens for proper operation. ETH would have no value were it not for the fact that the public Ethereum blockchain requires ETH tokens to function correctly. The same goes for NEO, EOS, and many others. XRP had a problem awhile back when observant folks noted that the centralized XRP blockchain technology would/could function without XRP tokens at all (basically). Ripple Labs has been forced to do a PR blitz to justify why anyone would want XRP tokens in the first place.

Clearly you don't understand, they are valuable because they are scarce. There are only 21 million of them, you'll need them in the future, you'd best grab them now!

That's Bitcoin for you.

The best life advice I ever got in college was from the pinball machine in the pub: "You cannot win if you walk away".

Kind of true. If you stay in cash forever, inflation eats you. Stock market? Looks terribly overvalued. Bonds? Flat, though gaining some momentum with rising interest rates. I've found a few "safe haven" assets that I think will do okay performance-wise (no, not metals) should we undergo the . . . somewhat-predictable economic collapse that will/might happen sometime in 2026-2034. But they're still dollar-indexed so they won't be that sexy in the event of hyperinflation, even if they are relatively crash-proof.

And then there's crypto.

Those who got in on that last crypto surge got a lot of interesting options (read: big gains) wrt how to survive what may be "interesting" economic times to come. All this bleeding may lead to another surge. In fact, I'm willing to bet (with cash) that 2019 may be a big year. But it's gonna have to go down further before that can happen.

And no, I don't think that buying Bitcoin is a good hedge against a weak dollar, today or tomorrow. Not really sure WHAT would be a good hedge except maybe XMR because it would be so hard for the Feds to confiscate it. Metals (and shares in metal contracts) can be confiscated, and there's historical precedence for that too.

Alternatively, if we have Great Depression Part 2, we'll undergo deflation, in which case being in cash is the only way to win.
 
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VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,453
10,121
126
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/articl...oin-mining-plan-cryptocurrency-lending-scheme

Interesting. Some poor shmuck thought that he could "time" mining pools, for when they would hit a block, and make more money mining than everyone else, and then was taking investments, then loans, in BTC, and it became a Ponzi scheme. Which I'm not sure if it's even prosecuteable as such, since it's not a currency, under US law, but a commodity.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,937
12,384
126
www.anyf.ca
Think in Canada too it's considered property, and apparently there is a bartering law, where you have to pay taxes even if you exchange property (ex: BTC for ethereum). It's BS. So if you trade items such as tools with someone you're technically suppose to pay tax. No idea how that would even work, not like you get something in the mail to give to your tax person.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,815
11,171
136
The IRS rule is that every time you exchange tokenized assets that fall under the 2014 guidance, it represents a "taxable event" where you must pay tax based on the change in value (indexed in USD) over the entire time that you held it. Full income tax if held less than a year, reduced long-term cap gains if held for a year or longer. It can get ugly if you're a high-frequency trader, assuming you actually make any money.
 

njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,331
251
126
If you are a high frequency trader you can just summarize your gains. If you go in with $10K and come out with $20K, it doesn't really matter how you got there when it's all short term trading. It only gets ugly when you go from one year to the next. So just be sure to return a full fiat basis by December 31st and you'll be fine.
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,324
2,930
126
I haven't been following bitcoin recently. How is it doing? Is Ethereum still going strong?
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,815
11,171
136
Look at coinmarketcap.com if you want to follow along.

It hasn't gone as low as it did in August, but it's getting back down there.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,937
12,384
126
www.anyf.ca
Ethereum has been slowly declining. It's actually kinda funny since as I mine more, my overall dollar amount is still going down. I'm at 0.99 eth now, which is worth a wooping $247.55 meanwhile I put in over $1,600 to buy my two GTX 1070's. *Cries in SHA-3*

I already invested in the hardware and it's setup and set and forget, so may as well just keep going. There's still an odd chance it goes back up.
 
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