Wow. Bitcoin is almost $1,500

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Arcadio

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2007
5,637
24
81
I found out about Bitcoin around 2012. I didn't pay attention to it until a year later when airdata posted the Bitcoin remorse thread. Don't click if you don't want to see a bunch of people argue about the fact that a $70 Bitcoin is outrageous.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,639
12,767
146
Is anyone here actually mining? I have been researching a bit this morning just to get a better understanding of everything and was just curious if anyone is using anything to mine at home like that Antminer S9. If so, how is it going and how much maintenance do you have to do? Do you just set it and forget it or is there stuff you have to regularly check/do? I was reading that these can generate like .25btc a year (obviously depending on difficulty and variables) but at the rate now, that would seem worth it.
I am, not BTC, but in 'the mining circuit' with GPUs.

It's making me enough to continue doing it. I'm .. not sure that I could recommend someone get into hardware-level mining at this point. Hell, if I could go back and tell myself to just buy BTC instead of mining gear, I would have (and would have a lot more money at this point to boot). Now, having said that, I don't know that even buying BTC is a good idea at this point, since I don't know what the hell it'll do in the future. I don't think anyone would have predicted it get this high, so there's just as valid reason at this point to think it'll crash tomorrow as think it'll double tomorrow.

I like to imagine the heads of 'traditional investors' trying to come up with futures predictions for BTC though, we've seen swings of 25% in *both directions* in a single day. How on earth do you even attempt to predict futures on that?
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
I've never bought a Bitcoin. I remember when I first read up on them and they were just below $50 and I was like "this is absurd, it's a waste of money and won't go anywhere"... Clearly I am not a good predictor of financial markets.

I too underestimated the number of people who misunderstand there is a difference between blockchain as a tech, and BTC itself being worthless. BTC is a pipe dream that is being hyped into some second coming that will never happen. What people seem to fail to realize is that if it were truly a currency, at some point someone would try to own them all. It's the pokemon syndrome. Remember the new $1 coins? Yea, neither does anyone else because they don't circulate, they are packed away hoping someday they might be worth something. BTC is going through this. The people hyping this train are simply in it for the speculation hoping they go up in value, nothing more. The only ones hoping it works as a currency are people wanting it for illegal activities. The mining aspect was done because people thought they could make money out of nothing (which..turns out they could), but little miners for at least BTC are pretty much done for these days. The dozen offshoots certainly have room to grow though.
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
9,587
2,951
136
I don't understand the specifics but from what I've read, there are a lot of problems with using btc for actual transactions. Apparently it's very limited in terms of the number of simultaneous transactions it can handle and the amount of time it takes to clear a transaction. There are so many other cryptos out there that are much more suited for high volume transactions. One of those will likely be the one that people actually start using for things like money transfers between currencies. But I'll still be interested to what happens with bitcoin. If just buying enough btc to start a futures market was able to boost the price by a couple orders of magnitude I'm really interested to see what happens to the price as the number of people getting into the market starts to slow.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
I highly doubt BTC itself will ever be used for buying a coffee, just like nobody would use fractions of an ounce of gold to buy a coffee today. That's why the Lightening protocol (which just completed its first successful test recently) was devised and will be used for.

http://www.newsbtc.com/2017/12/10/lightning-network-inches-closer-deployed-bitcoin-mainnet/

The key difference is that fractions of gold WERE used to buy things. It was replaced by the dollar which at one time WAS backed by gold. Now....if you said to me, BTC is going to replace the dollar, and backed by the dollar...then I might believe in BTC a bit more as a natural evolution of existing currency...but that isn't how it is envisioned. They are trying to hijack the process and cut the dollar out completely.
 

Yakk

Golden Member
May 28, 2016
1,574
275
81
The key difference is that fractions of gold WERE used to buy things. It was replaced by the dollar which at one time WAS backed by gold. Now....if you said to me, BTC is going to replace the dollar, and backed by the dollar...then I might believe in BTC a bit more as a natural evolution of existing currency...but that isn't how it is envisioned. They are trying to hijack the process and cut the dollar out completely.

Who is "they"?

If it works well people will use it, if it doesn't they won't. Not a question of believing anything. The process will evolve on its own and be robust enough to survive, or it will disappear.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,931
5,802
126
I'm kicking myself for not buying some litecoin last night when it was $150. I was on the fence at the time and didn't pull the trigger.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
Who is "they"?

If it works well people will use it, if it doesn't they won't. Not a question of believing anything. The process will evolve on its own and be robust enough to survive, or it will disappear.

By "they" I just meant the creators of bitcoin.

And yes, I agree with you, but it has a long way to go.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,547
651
126
I'm kicking myself for not buying some litecoin last night when it was $150. I was on the fence at the time and didn't pull the trigger.

Two weeks ago, my friend told me it would be the next coin and it was $70 then. I didn't buy any. UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Yakk

Golden Member
May 28, 2016
1,574
275
81
Two weeks ago, my friend told me it would be the next coin and it was $70 then. I didn't buy any. UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's because of the positive test result with the Lightening Network protocol I mentioned above. TLDR; It's a BTC-LTC interface. Have to say I was surprised the value took off so early also, imagine when it'll be fully deployed
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,931
5,802
126
Been trying to buy some litecoin at around $300-$315 this morning but getting errors on coinbase when I go to purchase. I tried twice and hope neither transaction actually went through, or if they did, I'd like to know about it lol.
 

Yakk

Golden Member
May 28, 2016
1,574
275
81
This is a biggie!

TD Ameritrade formally announced they are offering Future contracts starting Monday. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/15/td-ameritrade-to-open-trading-on-bitcoin-futures.html

With all these futures now available companies can fully hedge their positions which means safety for them to offer services. And investors can achieve a lower tax bracket than the capital gains tax. I can't imagine ETFs to be far off now.

CBOE, CME, the big brokers coming online...

WOW! Just... WOW!
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,931
5,802
126
This is a biggie!

TD Ameritrade formally announced they are offering Future contracts starting Monday. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/15/td-ameritrade-to-open-trading-on-bitcoin-futures.html

With all these futures now available companies can fully hedge their positions which means safety for them to offer services. And investors can achieve a lower tax bracket than the capital gains tax. I can't imagine ETFs to be far off now.

WOW! Just... WOW!
For people like myself who have no clue wtf that means, can you elaborate in layman's terms?
 

Yakk

Golden Member
May 28, 2016
1,574
275
81
For people like myself who have no clue wtf that means, can you elaborate in layman's terms?

Bitcoin is graduating from Enthusiast to the professional markets and has gained the attention of all big brokerage and investment firms.

One of the main reasons why bitcoin value shot up the last couple months is the major firms around the world buying big time to have Bitcoin liquidity in order to do business (ie: Wall Street in the U.S.). Futures are very important for big companies so they can hedge their positions and be fully covered were Bitcoin to drop in value.

Bitcoin is entering the big leagues.
 
Reactions: purbeast0

Yakk

Golden Member
May 28, 2016
1,574
275
81
More BTC excitement starting tonight with the CME Futures scheduled to start trading with what looks like $35K targets by February?

This will be interesting!
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,547
651
126
That's because of the positive test result with the Lightening Network protocol I mentioned above. TLDR; It's a BTC-LTC interface. Have to say I was surprised the value took off so early also, imagine when it'll be fully deployed

Got in this weekend and picked up some Litecoin when it dipped down to $280. Wish I had picked up more and some bitcoin cash.
 

Yakk

Golden Member
May 28, 2016
1,574
275
81
Got in this weekend and picked up some Litecoin when it dipped down to $280. Wish I had picked up more and some bitcoin cash.

Looks like you got in LTC just before the second bounce it did, good entry point inbetween bounces. If you look at the charts Bcash is usually a pump&dump coin, be careful of that one.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,547
651
126
Logged into my coinbase account today and noticed that on 12/14 I had 1.76 bitcoin cash for a total of $3.139k from another bitcoin cash wallet. I don't have another BTH wallet and never purchased any. Need to do some more research. Don't know if I'm going senile or somehow someone transferred the money to me by accident.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,128
5,657
126
Bitcoin is graduating from Enthusiast to the professional markets and has gained the attention of all big brokerage and investment firms.

One of the main reasons why bitcoin value shot up the last couple months is the major firms around the world buying big time to have Bitcoin liquidity in order to do business (ie: Wall Street in the U.S.). Futures are very important for big companies so they can hedge their positions and be fully covered were Bitcoin to drop in value.

Bitcoin is entering the big leagues.

This is not good news IMO. BC is so unstable that it could be a threat to legitimate Market stability.
 

Yakk

Golden Member
May 28, 2016
1,574
275
81
This is not good news IMO. BC is so unstable that it could be a threat to legitimate Market stability.

BTC is by nature unstable versus fiat because it is deflationary, it's value should be constantly increasing versus fiat which is inflationary by nature. Thus creating inherent instability by design.

To have a stable appearing crypto-currency it would also have to be a matching inflationary, thus decreasing its value over time and essentially defeating its own purpose.

This brings us to why the discussion on a 2nd layer to partially (or fully) absorb this difference while allowing the 1st layer to continue its ever increasing relative value.
 

Yakk

Golden Member
May 28, 2016
1,574
275
81
Logged into my coinbase account today and noticed that on 12/14 I had 1.76 bitcoin cash for a total of $3.139k from another bitcoin cash wallet. I don't have another BTH wallet and never purchased any. Need to do some more research. Don't know if I'm going senile or somehow someone transferred the money to me by accident.

An attack (by attack I mean multiple nuclear bomb size financial attack) by Bcash & Coinbase against BTC was started yesterday and is currently ongoing.

I would be very wary of dealing with Coinbase for the foreseeable future, if ever. Wouldn't be surprise if they come under investigation sooner rather than later over all this.

Edit: and even CNBC is involved, with some really bizarre and confrontational tweets:

http://bitcoinist.com/coinbase-insider-trading-bcash-launch/
 
Last edited:

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,639
12,767
146
An attack (by attack I mean multiple nuclear bomb size financial attack) by Bcash & Coinbase against BTC was started yesterday and is currently ongoing.

I would be very wary of dealing with Coinbase for the foreseeable future, if ever. Wouldn't be surprise if they come under investigation sooner rather than later over all this.

Edit: and even CNBC is involved, with some really bizarre and confrontational tweets:

http://bitcoinist.com/coinbase-insider-trading-bcash-launch/
Fairly shocked by this, whether pure malfeasance or possibly naevity (if they 'trusted' people with insider info to not act on it) i'm feeling a little bit like Coinbase might get thrashed as a result of this. Sucks too, are there any other exchanges that far on the up & up, like US location, fully insured, etc?
 

Mandres

Senior member
Jun 8, 2011
944
58
91
Big surprise ... another exchange site involved in malfeasance. Isn't that the entire business model for these sites?
 
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