if there weren't millions of people spending money for better and better stuff they don't really need, they wouldn't be able to cover the tooling costs.
Consumerism can be good, I guess.
if there weren't millions of people spending money for better and better stuff they don't really need, they wouldn't be able to cover the tooling costs.It sounds enormously cost prohibitive. Getting this technology into production facilities is going to be a huge feat of engineering. All so we can get new gadgets that are even thinner, faster and with a longer battery life.
The industry has been working on EUV lithography technology for a long time. After 20nm processes are tapped out, EUV becomes necessary to achieve the next process. Very interesting stuff.
My brother works for ASML as a technician on their current Twin Scan immersion systems. It's fun talking to him about what's next in lithography tech. I guess ASML has been working on developing commercial production EUV machines since 2009.
The way the EUV light is created is pretty cool science too. They hit molten tin particles with a beam from a CO2 laser and that tin particle emits EUV wavelength light. The challenge becomes directing that light where you want it to go. In addition I guess the interior of the machine needs to have a complete vacuum as even particles of air will block or absorb the EUV light. Inside the machines the light is collected by ultrasmooth mirrors that can have no defects that would deform the light.
On top of all that science this article talks about what needs to go into the fabs that will be built to run this technology. Even cleaner clean rooms, vibration dampening for the buildings and equipment, the list goes on. It sounds enormously cost prohibitive. Getting this technology into production facilities is going to be a huge feat of engineering. All so we can get new gadgets that are even thinner, faster and with a longer battery life.
The industry has been working on EUV lithography technology for a long time. After 20nm processes are tapped out, EUV becomes necessary to achieve the next process. Very interesting stuff.
My brother works for ASML as a technician on their current Twin Scan immersion systems. It's fun talking to him about what's next in lithography tech. I guess ASML has been working on developing commercial production EUV machines since 2009.
The way the EUV light is created is pretty cool science too. They hit molten tin particles with a beam from a CO2 laser and that tin particle emits EUV wavelength light. The challenge becomes directing that light where you want it to go. In addition I guess the interior of the machine needs to have a complete vacuum as even particles of air will block or absorb the EUV light. Inside the machines the light is collected by ultrasmooth mirrors that can have no defects that would deform the light.
On top of all that science this article talks about what needs to go into the fabs that will be built to run this technology. Even cleaner clean rooms, vibration dampening for the buildings and equipment, the list goes on. It sounds enormously cost prohibitive. Getting this technology into production facilities is going to be a huge feat of engineering. All so we can get new gadgets that are even thinner, faster and with a longer battery life.
It is worth noting that EUV hasn't been used in any production foundry process to date that I have heard of.
Instead of EUV starting at 20nm they moved to double patterning. In a chip you have layers of metal. 28nm+ those metals were each done once. So you'd have a single Metal 1 layer, single Metal 2 layer, etc so each of these would require one mask. Since EUV wasn't mature enough in order to get the wiring density necessary to take advantage on 20nm and smaller they moved to doing essentially two masks for a particular metal layer. So you'd have Metal 1 green and Metal 1 red, they are still on the same plane but now you have doubled the Metal 1 mask costs.
This is why TSMC 20nm didn't gain huge traction. It is still a planar fet but the mask costs are much higher. FinFet is expensive as well since they still use double and even triple patterning but you gain a lot more moving to finFet.
GaGH. I'll wait till thy are under 8 grand.
Or just steal them from the Federation.
good news buddy, these things are only 80$ at newegg now
and amd is coming out with 7nm mainstream
it's the future!
(i only responded cuz i was looking for techs last comment ever and i needed closure)
Does 7nm really matter for consumer computers? I don't remember what CPU is in the box i'm using now, probably something from the "quarter inch" node, it works just fine.
Intel's 7nm is Broken, Company Announces Delay Until 2022, 2023
From bad to worsewww.tomshardware.com
Wow so basically intel is shit now? And amd is king? Mind blown. How the tables have turned...
Does 7nm really matter for consumer computers? I don't remember what CPU is in the box i'm using now, probably something from the "quarter inch" node, it works just fine.
Does 7nm really matter for consumer computers? I don't remember what CPU is in the box i'm using now, probably something from the "quarter inch" node, it works just fine.
You should visit the main anandtech site once in a while lol.
Never thought about energy savings, good point.I would say yes? Power savings are power savings. Scaling is scaling. I would say for Desktops we're certainly reaching a point (for now) of diminishing returns (the CPU in my Desktop is now more powerful than both the Sandy Bridge 8 core Xeons in my servers), but for Mobile, there's still plenty of gains to be made in introducing more power, or more power savings. For instance while Ryzen 4000 has reset the idea of multi-threaded power in a laptop, there's still plenty of gains to be made in battery life. And of course the antithesis of that is that the better battery life you get, the more its traded off instead for thinness. People will still want their 6 hour active battery life laptop that's less than 10mm thick.
Exactly.
7nm? Who cares! Heck even 32nm works just fine for me.
For everything I do, a Sandy Bridge 2700k from 2011 works just fine. Sure Ive upgraded everything else, but the Heart of Rock and Roll is steal beating. All my AMD experiences have been very bad so I will never choose them even if they go to .0001NM and give you a $1200 stimulus check just to buy it.
He's got a point, though. We're getting to the point where the performance, heat generation, and power consumption benefits of a process shrink are starting to diminish for each generation. The 7nm process tech will probably benefit smartphone processors more than it would benefit... say... a desktop or server processor.
Intel's 7nm is Broken, Company Announces Delay Until 2022, 2023
From bad to worsewww.tomshardware.com
Wow so basically intel is shit now? And amd is king? Mind blown. How the tables have turned...
All my AMD experiences have been very bad so I will never choose them even if they go to .0001NM and give you a $1200 stimulus check just to buy it.
Five years ago, Intel's process was about a generation ahead of other foundries. Now it's almost a generation behind. AMD has caught up after a decade in the wilderness, but remember they are fabless so the credit isn't all their's. Intel is still very profitable from (I believe) Cloud growth but if ARM servers ever catch on, they could be in real trouble.Intel's 7nm is Broken, Company Announces Delay Until 2022, 2023
From bad to worsewww.tomshardware.com
Wow so basically intel is shit now? And amd is king? Mind blown. How the tables have turned...
Alright I'm getting worried now.
Not really a huge deal that Intel is having issues, anyone that wants a good CPU buys AMD anyway.
(braces for flame war )
Most non-enthusiasts just buy a pre-built PC or Laptop from someone like Dell or Apple, who have little or no AMD options available right now. AMD apparently needs to step up their bribery game to nab those big OEM contracts.
Most non-enthusiasts just buy a pre-built PC or Laptop from someone like Dell or Apple, who have little or no AMD options available right now. AMD apparently needs to step up their bribery game to nab those big OEM contracts.
Not really a huge deal that Intel is having issues, anyone that wants a good CPU buys AMD anyway.
(braces for flame war )
Not really a huge deal that Intel is having issues, anyone that wants a good CPU buys AMD anyway.
(braces for flame war )