Wow.. MSNBC having a field day with Bush's recent Iran lie..

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
So, uhh, the intelligence guys grew a spine, started telling the boss the truth instead of what they knew he wanted to hear...

Or just changed their minds after getting over their complex about 9/11...

Used more rigorous analysis than the OSP...

And there's some problem with this?

Even Cheney had to man-up, kinda-sorta, while the keyboard warriors continue to whine about not gettng the war they wanted...

While Dubya claims ignorance, verifying the fact in ways he never intended and can't even imagine...

Growing a spine = inserting policy opinions into NIE? Uhh...ok :roll:

Anyway, we already have a thread on the NIE - and this thread seems to be about msnbc and their editorial shows. So whoever it was whining about shooting the messenger - guess what!? this IS about the messenger.

This is about whether you are angry about being lied to, you obviously don't care, so please go to the mall and do some christmas shopping, life does go on...doesn't it?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
So, uhh, the intelligence guys grew a spine, started telling the boss the truth instead of what they knew he wanted to hear...

Or just changed their minds after getting over their complex about 9/11...

Used more rigorous analysis than the OSP...

And there's some problem with this?

Even Cheney had to man-up, kinda-sorta, while the keyboard warriors continue to whine about not gettng the war they wanted...

While Dubya claims ignorance, verifying the fact in ways he never intended and can't even imagine...

Growing a spine = inserting policy opinions into NIE? Uhh...ok :roll:

Anyway, we already have a thread on the NIE - and this thread seems to be about msnbc and their editorial shows. So whoever it was whining about shooting the messenger - guess what!? this IS about the messenger.

This is about whether you are angry about being lied to, you obviously don't care, so please go to the mall and do some christmas shopping, life does go on...doesn't it?

:roll: The OP was about the show and the guy going off on a rant. We already have a thread on the NIE.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
So, uhh, the intelligence guys grew a spine, started telling the boss the truth instead of what they knew he wanted to hear...

Or just changed their minds after getting over their complex about 9/11...

Used more rigorous analysis than the OSP...

And there's some problem with this?

Even Cheney had to man-up, kinda-sorta, while the keyboard warriors continue to whine about not gettng the war they wanted...

While Dubya claims ignorance, verifying the fact in ways he never intended and can't even imagine...

The Intelligence Community isn't going to let themselves be manipulated and then thrown under the bus like what happened with Iraq.

I've heard this same bs hollow argument about "well you didn't believe the NIE on Iraqi WMD< but you believe this?" from the local right wing radio idiots, good to see that PJ got the memo.

 

[Bird222]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
ProfJohn

I hate to call the strawman, but your post is full of them.

I think the US intelligence community needs a LOT of help. I don't necessarily believe their recent report anymore than a contradictory one from 05. However, if foreign decisions are based on it, as they ostensibly are, and Bush was briefed in AUGUST that there was serious information about Iran "but we're waiting to see what it is", you are a fool if you don't think he pressed for what it could be and waited 3-4 months to hear it. HE KNEW what the report was likely to conclude, just as he KNEW in 03 that there was significant, if minority dissent in the US intelligence community about the Iraq WMD program. He chose to ignore it.

I pity the desperation with which people hold to disproven beliefs, like those who continue to support a terrible man as president of their country that they claim to love.

QFMFT!!!!! Whether or not the NIE is correct or not is not the issue here. The issue is whether you believe that the POTUS didn't know what the intelligence community had on Iran until last week while all along he is talking about WWIII. I don't believe for a minute that he was told in August they had some info and didn't at least get the gist of it before last week. Either he is lying or he is a keystone cop of a president. Take your pick.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: Bird222

Originally posted by: Skoorb
ProfJohn

I hate to call the strawman, but your post is full of them.

I think the US intelligence community needs a LOT of help. I don't necessarily believe their recent report anymore than a contradictory one from 05. However, if foreign decisions are based on it, as they ostensibly are, and Bush was briefed in AUGUST that there was serious information about Iran "but we're waiting to see what it is", you are a fool if you don't think he pressed for what it could be and waited 3-4 months to hear it. HE KNEW what the report was likely to conclude, just as he KNEW in 03 that there was significant, if minority dissent in the US intelligence community about the Iraq WMD program. He chose to ignore it.

I pity the desperation with which people hold to disproven beliefs, like those who continue to support a terrible man as president of their country that they claim to love.

QFMFT!!!!! Whether or not the NIE is correct or not is not the issue here. The issue is whether you believe that the POTUS didn't know what the intelligence community had on Iran until last week while all along he is talking about WWIII. I don't believe for a minute that he was told in August they had some info and didn't at least get the gist of it before last week. Either he is lying or he is a keystone cop of a president. Take your pick.

I choose C - All of the above

The man is a disaster as a leader. He ran every company that he tried to lead into the ground. He has run this country into the ground. He probably would have run the Rangers into the ground as well if the other owners would have been stupid enough to use him in any capacity other than figurehead and link between their goals and the politicians that could help them accomplish them.

He is such a horrible liar when he doesn't have a script and I can't believe that his handlers let him go into a press conference without thinking that some reporter would have the common sense to question his declaration that he only learned about a report a week ago that had been presented to him months prior.

 

[Bird222]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Bird222

QFMFT!!!!! Whether or not the NIE is correct or not is not the issue here. The issue is whether you believe that the POTUS didn't know what the intelligence community had on Iran until last week while all along he is talking about WWIII. I don't believe for a minute that he was told in August they had some info and didn't at least get the gist of it before last week. Either he is lying or he is a keystone cop of a president. Take your pick.

I choose C - All of the above

The man is a disaster as a leader. He ran every company that he tried to lead into the ground. He has run this country into the ground. He probably would have run the Rangers into the ground as well if the other owners would have been stupid enough to use him in any capacity other than figurehead and link between their goals and the politicians that could help them accomplish them.

He is such a horrible liar when he doesn't have a script and I can't believe that his handlers let him go into a press conference without thinking that some reporter would have the common sense to question his declaration that he only learned about a report a week ago that had been presented to him months prior.

Well of course there is that option.

 

[manowar821]

You guys, you guys... Fuck this shit.

Let's just rush the white house. It's our property, anyway.

 

[Bird222]

Originally posted by: manowar821
You guys, you guys... Fuck this shit.

Let's just rush the white house. It's our property, anyway.

Nobody's that brave anymore.

 

[Genx87]

Will this douchebag congrats the Bush admin on stopping the Iranian program in its tracks under his leadership?

Yeah, didnt think so.

 

[Stoneburner]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Will this douchebag congrats the Bush admin on stopping the Iranian program in its tracks under his leadership?

Yeah, didnt think so.

Well, as KO pointed out, iran stopped its nuclear program around the same time european nations SANS BUSHIE were negotiating with them.


Let it go childrens. The iran war is dead. No more bombs for you!

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Stoneburner

Originally posted by: Genx87
Will this douchebag congrats the Bush admin on stopping the Iranian program in its tracks under his leadership?

Yeah, didnt think so.

Well, as KO pointed out, iran stopped its nuclear program around the same time european nations SANS BUSHIE were negotiating with them.


Let it go childrens. The iran war is dead. No more bombs for you!

It was still under his watch.

 

[Stoneburner]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Stoneburner

Originally posted by: Genx87
Will this douchebag congrats the Bush admin on stopping the Iranian program in its tracks under his leadership?

Yeah, didnt think so.

Well, as KO pointed out, iran stopped its nuclear program around the same time european nations SANS BUSHIE were negotiating with them.


Let it go childrens. The iran war is dead. No more bombs for you!

It was still under his watch.

LMFAO!

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: Stoneburner

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Stoneburner

Originally posted by: Genx87
Will this douchebag congrats the Bush admin on stopping the Iranian program in its tracks under his leadership?

Yeah, didnt think so.

Well, as KO pointed out, iran stopped its nuclear program around the same time european nations SANS BUSHIE were negotiating with them.


Let it go childrens. The iran war is dead. No more bombs for you!

It was still under his watch.

LMFAO!

Hahaha, I laughed too... The Bush admin had nothing to do with Iran stopping it's nuclear weapons program.

 

[ProfJohn]

Didn't Iran give up its program, if this NIE is right, around the same time we invaded Afghanistan and then crushed Iraq in a few days?

Perhaps Iran saw what we did in Iraq and got a little worried.

 

[Pabster]

Imagine, the far-left wing nutjobs at MSNBC "ripping in to Bush" ...

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: Pabster
Imagine, the far-left wing nutjobs at MSNBC "ripping in to Bush" ...

So, does criticizing Mr Bush make a person a"far-left wing nutjob"?

Are Mr Bush and his policies above criticism?

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Just to show how worthless you are Harvey I googled and found a link for you:
From Deputy Director of Analysis Thomas Fingar who said the follow in front of congress:

Iran and North Korea are the states of most concern to us. The United States? concerns about Iran are shared by many nations, including many of Iran?s neighbors. Iran is continuing to pursue uranium enrichment and has shown more interest in protracting negotiations and working to delay and diminish the impact of UNSC sanctions than in reaching an acceptable diplomatic solution. We assess that Tehran is determined to develop nuclear weapons--despite its international obligations and international pressure. This is a grave concern to the other countries in the region whose security would be threatened should Iran acquire nuclear weapons.

Link to congress site
He is, according to reports, one of the three main authors of the report.

Did you really forget to read the title page of that report?

Global Security Assessment for the House Armed Services Committee

July 11, 2007

All you've shown is that, as usual, you continue to lie, dissembling, distract and divert attention from the truth, PJ. That assessment from the House Armed Services Committee is dated, July 11, 2007. The current NIE was just made public, and as incredible as his statement is, your TRAITOR IN CHIEF says HE only learned what it said a couple of weeks ago.

If you believe him, I have a few bridges for sale, but if you do, please explain how a Congressional Committee is supposed to have anthing more to go on than the LIES they were previously fed by those who have done nothing BUT lie to them and the American people. :|

Meanwhile, your VICE TRAITOR IN CHIEF has been actively working to suppress the latest NIE for over a year. Was he saving it to cheer us all up for the holidays? :roll:

Are you really that dumb, or are you an active participant in the Bushwhackos' criminal cabal? :shocked:

 

[ProfJohn]

I don't know why I waste time replying to you Harvey.

You said:

That's because there is no link to YOUR story. That story was all bullshit.

I posted a link to said story which proves that your statement about it being bullshit is wrong.

What is strange is that any little piece of evidence that says Iraq did not have WMD pre-invasion is treat as 'proof' that we knew there were no WMD.

But the Deputy Director of Analysis make a speech in July claiming Iran was working on a nuke can now be totally ignored because of a report issued a few months later?

Let's say we have another NIE released in 6 months that claims Iran is indeed working on a nuke would the left be as quick to believe it as they are this one? Or would they claim it is a bunch of lies?

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Will this douchebag congrats the Bush admin on stopping the Iranian program in its tracks under his leadership?

Yeah, didnt think so.

9/11 happened under his watch also. Using your above logic, do you blame Bush for it?

 

[Bird222]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Didn't Iran give up its program, if this NIE is right, around the same time we invaded Afghanistan and then crushed Iraq in a few days?

Perhaps Iran saw what we did in Iraq and got a little worried.

Irrelevent. Why don't you answer this question: How do you feel about a president who lied or one that isn't 'with it' enough to ask what's going on with 'our next biggest threat'? Do you think this person should be in office?

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Evan Lieb

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Let me guess - it was that worthless POS Olbermann - so pretty much nothing is new. He goes off on those wildeyed rants as often as Harvey does here.

How is Keith Olbermann a peice of shit? I think most on this forum think otherwise...

Because he has the depth of a peanut and burns bridges everywhere he goes. He's hypersensitive and generally reactionary instead of calmly resolute with his opinions. He is also a bit too obsessed with Bill O'Reilly, who just isn't that important in the world of politics.

I think he's WAY too obsessed with O'Reilly.

I was just thinking last night how it sucks that Olbermann is on oposite of O'Reilly.

I'd really rather not watch O'Reilly, but with other the choice being Olbermann. D@mn.

BTW: The other guy going all crazy over GWB last night was Dan Abrams. I liked him better when he was doing the legal thingy like Greta Van Sustern. Politics just aren't his bag. I'd rather see those with a long history of being a Washington DC correspondant handle the politics stuff.

Fern

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I don't know why I waste time replying to you Harvey.

Me, either. All you ever do is spawn yet more lies, distractions, diversions and prove that the you can't face the truth. :laugh:

You said:

That's because there is no link to YOUR story. That story was all bullshit.

I posted a link to said story which proves that your statement about it being bullshit is wrong.

What is strange is that any little piece of evidence that says Iraq did not have WMD pre-invasion is treat as 'proof' that we knew there were no WMD.

But the Deputy Director of Analysis make a speech in July claiming Iran was working on a nuke can now be totally ignored because of a report issued a few months later?

Let's say we have another NIE released in 6 months that claims Iran is indeed working on a nuke would the left be as quick to believe it as they are this one? Or would they claim it is a bunch of lies?

I don't know what was at that alleged link you "couldn't find." Of course, either do you, but the only other link in that same post was to an opinion piece, but the point is NOT whether Iran still wants to acquire nukes, or just the knowledge about how to make them. The point is, your TRAITOR IN CHIEF and his criminal cabal have once again proven themselves to be so continuously and consistantly full of bullshit that the American people can't trust a word they say... just like YOU. :roll:

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Let's say we have another NIE released in 6 months that claims Iran is indeed working on a nuke would the left be as quick to believe it as they are this one? Or would they claim it is a bunch of lies?

I think we both know the answer to that question.

 

[Lemon law]

The US taking over Iran in the same way it took over Iraq is what this is all about. The US and the Europeans had it made prior to 1976. The Arabs had the oil the US and the Europeans needed, they had placed friendly Arab in charge, and in turn these friendly Arab were supposed to sell their oil cheap. There was absolutely no talk about replacing
decadent monarchies with democracies.

Then the Shah of Iran with the help of his CIA trained secret police finally managed to alienate everyone in Iran except the Shah, and the Shah woke up one day, and did what all wise and benevolent leaders do in such situations, he grabbed all the portable wealth he could and ran for his life. And quicker than anyone could say comrade we have been betrayed, we saw Ayatollah Khomeini set up a religious theocracy in Iran. And the US and the Europeans have been in a snit ever since over all those lost profits.

Plan A was to get Saddam, the newly self installed leader of Iraq, to do their heavy lifting for them. And soon delegation of Rumsfeld type were flying to Iraq and helping Saddam. With visions of sugar plums dancing in their heads in that plan to make Saddam their man in the mid-east as a counter-balance to Iran.

Worse yet, despite all the grave warning of an expansionist war loving Iran, Iran remained determined to be isolationist giving the US and the Europeans zero excuse to use military means. But soon Saddam's greed saw the opportunity when Ayatollah Khomeini foolishly let the Shah's military fall into rust and ruin. And Saddam invaded Iran in 1980 and Iran ended up trying to oppose tanks and machine guns with human waves of Canon fodder. But Iran still stubbornly held on as they desperately sought some military aid assistance in self defense, and finally in 1988, Iraq fell short of their bid to win. Teaching Iran one lesson in the process, namely don't rely on others. And soon Iran became self sufficient in manufacturing its own self defense armaments.

As for Saddam, he gasp, was double dealing with the Russians, and there is nothing worse than a tin pot dictator who won't stay bought. A definite neocon no no. And worse yet for Saddam, he was still determined to expand, and gave the US and the Europeans that excuse to intervene militarily. And like Noreiga, he too is now history.

But to the total frustration of the US and the Europeans, Iran stubbornly refuses to give the West any decent excuse at all to intervene militarily. When the Iranian moderates
went to Washington in early 2003 , hat in hand, to beg for some sort of thawing of Iranian US relations, GWB&co. was determined to say hell no because they still coveted control of Iranian resources. And French, British, and German Companies also wanted a piece of Iranian action they had formerly enjoyed under the Shah. And now to add injury to insult, the US is totally bogged down in Iraq, and any boots on the ground invasion of Iran is made almost impossible.

But now that tempting carrots of a Iranian nuclear program appears. Finally that line in the sand excuse for the US and Europeans to intervene militarily. But unfortunately, for the war hawks in US and Europe, there is zero evidence that its for military purposes, and even if Iran does acquire a few nuclear weapons, there is no credible case to be made that Iran could ever use nuclear weapons for anything but self defense.

And there are few nation on earth that have a better case to be made for needing some self defense capacity than Iran. I can fully understand why war hawks and commercial interests in the US, England, France , and Germany know their jigs up if Iran acquires some nuclear self defense capacity. But I fail to understand why Iran does not have the right to acquire their own independence from the centuries of foreign domination they have been forced to endure.

As to my own self interests, all I can see is that war hawks and commercial interests are doing nothing but ruining my country and pushing up the price of oil in a futile effort
to prevent the future. Causing human misery around the globe in the process.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Siddhartha

Originally posted by: Pabster
Imagine, the far-left wing nutjobs at MSNBC "ripping in to Bush" ...

So, does criticizing Mr Bush make a person a"far-left wing nutjob"?

Are Mr Bush and his policies above criticism?

No, and I never said that.

My point was that being surprised MSNBC is "ripping on Bush" is akin to being shocked that Hannity doesn't have a lot of kind words for Hillary Clinton or Al Gore.

And to put in perspective, MSNBC had an anchor call the POTUS a "Monkey" on air just a week or two back. They have no credibility whatsoever, except with a few left-wing nuts (much like that gas blowbag Olbermann also mentioned in this thread.)