As far as I can tell, religion is simply obsolete, superstition-based propaganda.
OP, you're an atheist. Just tell her all religion is bad, and tell her why. A lack of evidence comes to mind.
Honestly I am starting to get more angry about it. This woman has my daughter convinced that the CDC is an evil institution and that vaccinations are bad. She has her convinced that an alkaline diet is important. All kinds of woo woo bullshit. I never inject my views on other people's children and rarely on my own. Never pushed or talked about religion or politics or any of that. I feel like I am in a box where I should do something but I am sorta clueless where to go.
Getting entangled with a religion is all about feels. Anyone ever tried throwing logic at their wife/girlfriend when shes having a fit? - Yea doesnt work.
I am suggesting that you use a different kind of hammer here.
Not suggesting that a hammer is not the universal tool of all tools mind you but maybe just.. a different kind of hammer.
Indoctrinating children into religious mythologies is heinous. You could tell a young child there is a homicidal boogie man under the bed starting from a young age through to adulthood and they will grow up to believe it. It removes their right to choose and assess it for themselves by feeding them far fetched fairy tales as truth when they are in the impressionable imprinting stage of their lives.
There is no shortage of information to inoculate against religion though. Any textbook on evolution will do.
A number of studies offer support to the claim that sports and other physical activities can contribute to the development of self-esteem. For example, Canadian scientists found that sixth grade students boys and girls who were more physically active had considerably higher levels of self-esteem. This finding was corroborated by another Canadian team, who also highlighted the potentially harmful role that obesity plays in the equation. A study in Switzerland found that adolescents who participated in sports clubs had greater well-being, including being better socially adjusted, feeling less anxious, and generally being happier about their lives. Similar findings were reported in a study of Latino students, where participation in school sport was found to be significantly associated with self-esteem
Hmm. This definitely sounds more like Nation of Islam. At least she isn't wearing a keffiya and talking about drone strikes. Definitely more an African emphasis going on here it sounds like, and not so much your daughter becoming Islamic. Most Muslims are uncomfortable with NOI also.
I dunno man. This is like her getting into a hippie cult more than anything. Either let it ride itself out, drawing out the illogic of these positions, or find a way to cut off all contact from them in which case she will hate you for like half a year at least.
There's a grey area, middle ground if you will.
She doesn't have to believe exactly what you believe, and not forcing it is the best bet.
What you need to show her, IMO, is doubt and objective reasoning.
Just stay strong and keep showing her that there's more than one genre of belief, but science is a method to uncover facts and truth in the physical world around us
I am trying this approach as a parent. When my kids bring up god, I just say "whose god do you mean?" , or "which version of God are we discussing?"
We will see how it goes. But I won't force any religion on my children or condone anyone who tries to.
Which "reality" are you talking about?Should I say something to this girl's mom? Ask her to cool down the proselytization? I am kind of afraid of doing something like that. I love confrontation when I am anonymous hack on the internet, confrontation with real people in front of me is very scary.
My wife is much less worried about this. I don't think it matters too much to her what our daughter believes about reality.
Which "reality" are you talking about?
It's tough to say. I would just focus on presenting beliefs as beliefs, and people are entitled to those beliefs, but they don't necessarily exist in a real way. It's more emotional, which in itself isn't the problem...it's when you can't see another viewpoint due to it that it's a problem.Should I say something to this girl's mom? Ask her to cool down the proselytization? I am kind of afraid of doing something like that. I love confrontation when I am an anonymous hack on the internet, confrontation with real people in front of me is very scary.
My wife is much less worried about this. I don't think it matters too much to her what our daughter believes about reality.
The girl is extremely sweet, not into drugs and academically gifted.
As far as I can tell, religion is simply obsolete, superstition-based propaganda.
OP, you're an atheist. Just tell her all religion is bad, and tell her why. A lack of evidence comes to mind.
Whether you believe the same things as someone else or not, do you think their perception is real to them? You can disagree with another's beliefs all you want but, it in no way affects the validity of their reality. Personally, I think limiting yourself to your 5 senses is kind of like watching black and white tv.Reality.... the state of things as they actually exist rather than as they appear. I assume some basal things, that reality is real and that we can know things about it via our senses. Other than that, if you can't show it, you don't know it.
Whether you believe the same things as someone else or not, do you think their perception is real to them? You can disagree with another's beliefs all you want but, it in no way affects the validity of their reality. Personally, I think limiting yourself to your 5 senses is kind of like watching black and white tv.
I think this is sound advice. Religion (of any kind) can be a very positive thing, but it's one thing for a child to be raised in a religion and quite another for her to join one as a child, not yet able to properly evaluate religions and individual churches/temples/mosques. Being raised without religion leaves a spiritual hole, but does not convey the necessary wisdom to understand. Hopefully it's as MomentsofSanity postulates, she is simply attempting to better understand her friend and her friend's motivations.When my daughter was thirteen, one of her friend's parents tried to convert her to LDS (mormon). We cut if off at the knees. Don't let your daughter be suckered into any religion at that age, before she has the ability to think critically.
Did you write that last paragraph with a straight face?I think this is sound advice. Religion (of any kind) can be a very positive thing, but it's one thing for a child to be raised in a religion and quite another for her to join one as a child, not yet able to properly evaluate religions and individual churches/temples/mosques. Being raised without religion leaves a spiritual hole, but does not convey the necessary wisdom to understand. Hopefully it's as MomentsofSanity postulates, she is simply attempting to better understand her friend and her friend's motivations.
Although I agree with Desura that on balance, Islam is the worst religion of all, it can be quite attractive to young women. In Western culture, women often feel like second class citizens, whereas in Islam they are treasured property.
You think you know what truth is? Bwahahahahahahaha!The argument in question is what the truth actually is. You know three muslims in your life and they're all "nice people", so you believe they're mostly the same. No matter what other facts are presented, a foolish person will not change their views because what "feels" is "real". An objective person will see ALL the evidence and make an objective conclusion rather than an emotional one - which will offend the emotional decider.
Sorry, but REAL beats FEEL.
The wife/girlfriend thing seems slightly sexist, but still a good example. The regressive left is all about the feels. There's a different dynamic at play when you're dealing with an existential threat vs your spouse or significant other. People should overcome their irrational emotions and unite in opposition to fascism, instead of aligning oneself more and more with it every day. It's, again, well-intentioned, but wrong.
The argument in question is what the truth actually is. You know three muslims in your life and they're all "nice people", so you believe they're mostly the same. No matter what other facts are presented, a foolish person will not change their views because what "feels" is "real". An objective person will see ALL the evidence and make an objective conclusion rather than an emotional one - which will offend the emotional decider.
Sorry, but REAL beats FEEL.
I think this is sound advice. Religion (of any kind) can be a very positive thing, but it's one thing for a child to be raised in a religion and quite another for her to join one as a child, not yet able to properly evaluate religions and individual churches/temples/mosques. Being raised without religion leaves a spiritual hole, but does not convey the necessary wisdom to understand. Hopefully it's as MomentsofSanity postulates, she is simply attempting to better understand her friend and her friend's motivations.
Although I agree with Desura that on balance, Islam is the worst religion of all, it can be quite attractive to young women. In Western culture, women often feel like second class citizens, whereas in Islam they are treasured property.
The argument in question is what the truth actually is. You know three muslims in your life and they're all "nice people", so you believe they're mostly the same. No matter what other facts are presented, a foolish person will not change their views because what "feels" is "real". An objective person will see ALL the evidence and make an objective conclusion rather than an emotional one - which will offend the emotional decider.
Sorry, but REAL beats FEEL.
No. Straight faces are boring.Did you write that last paragraph with a straight face?
To an extent though, that makes sense. If the Muslims around me that I know are all nice people, then the Muslims around me that I don't know are probably nice people too. I agree with Desura that Islam is on balance the worst religion, but that doesn't change the fact that most Muslims are as good as your average bear. Believing that Islam is on balance the worst religion doesn't mean that every Muslim is a little worse than the average Jew, Christian or Hindu, it just means that they have a lot of really bad actors. One's chance of running into one of those really bad actors can often be nearly infinitesimal if one lives in non-Islamic nations. I'm in Tennessee and my chance of running into even a horrible but non-murderous Muslim is much smaller than my chance of encountering an equally horrible Christian or atheist. It pays to keep things in perspective.The argument in question is what the truth actually is. You know three muslims in your life and they're all "nice people", so you believe they're mostly the same. No matter what other facts are presented, a foolish person will not change their views because what "feels" is "real". An objective person will see ALL the evidence and make an objective conclusion rather than an emotional one - which will offend the emotional decider.
Sorry, but REAL beats FEEL.
Honestly I am starting to get more angry about it. This woman has my daughter convinced that the CDC is an evil institution and that vaccinations are bad. She has her convinced that an alkaline diet is important. All kinds of woo woo bullshit. I never inject my views on other people's children and rarely on my own. Never pushed or talked about religion or politics or any of that. I feel like I am in a box where I should do something but I am sorta clueless where to go.