Wow NV is basically beaten at all price points

[MarcVenice]

In Holland it looks roughly like this: GTX285 for 265 euro's, HD 4890 Black Edition from XFX for 170 euro's. Two HD 4870 1GB cards for 135 euro's each. Then again, Nvidia has always been priced slightly higher in Europe. Right now ATI is giving them an asswhooping in the mainstream segment. A little lower with the 9800GT, 9600GT, HD 4830 HD 4850 and HD 4670, things are a little more even.

Worst of all, are the GTS250's with 512MB ram, selling for 102 euro's (cheapest 1GB is 120 euro's), whilst HD 4870 512MB sells for 110 euro's, and HD 4870 1GB sells for 130 euro's. Thats got to be rough on Nvidia's sales. Not everyone is instantly swayed by prices though.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Obsoleet

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
It is mediocre, they are on par with ATI. They are nothing exceptional anymore. You could say ATI is mediocre too (they are), but they aren't sitting with DX10.0 cards and trying to sell it as something special.

If they are both so mediocre, who makes a better gpu?

It's getting to the point everything on the market is pretty stale.
At the moment, ATI has the best offerings with tossing in DX10.1 + audio processing.

As far as sales charts, individual examples are ok but I think in the future ATI's surge will show up in marketshare increases. It always goes back and forth and one could say things will remain even as they pretty much always have (until Intel and AMD remove Nvidia's place from the market with Larrabee). Nvidia's scared and I think everyone here knows it. Their arrogant commentary has left a bad taste in my mouth. Considering the slow decline in driver quality over the years (it isn't at the level of Carmack's gold standard comments from years ago) and rather unappealing hardware compared to what ATIs been doing.

As for me, I've never been leaning this way towards ATI in my life.. having started with a 3dfx monster 3d and then moving to other 3dfx cards, then a few ATI and NV products that convinced me I was going to have better luck (at the time) with Nvidia... for the first time a lot of us are starting to be disillusioned with the almighty Nvidia.

It's just about high time to be moving towards ATI's lineup, they've got it figured out and overall have a better lineup... and will be first to market with DX11.
Debates on DX10.1 and other DX revisions are moot when performance is the same (or better bang/buck) and one chipset offers you more advanced hardware.

All the sophism in the world can't erase the fact one company has older, outdated hardware specs.

AMD is going to be a more stable ship longterm because Intel has a vested interest in keeping them alive and Nvidia is just a mouthy, fabless Intel-wannabe (or at least that's what their arrogance has truly made themselves out to be and it's not pretty). I'm not an AMD fan, or an anything-fan, just calling like I see it. My observations are too raw for most who would rather dance around it.

Your post full of opinions does not make it fact. ATi has had as many isolated driver issues as nV has recently. And most people with both companies never experience a driver issue with either.

nV has the most powerful GPUs, so "outdated hardware specs" is just misleading and basically FUD. GT300 rumors have it sitting pretty nice as well.

You valuing DX10.1 is the same as someone valuing CUDA, Physx, and better board partners.


Basically your post is full of opinions and in no way contains tangible facts. Which is fine, as we are all entitled to our opinions.


According to your sig, you have the 8800GT, one of the most successful discreet GPUs of all time. Id be interested in what issues you have faced that have made you come to these conclusions?

 

[TheMeanestGuest]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
I have never understood Derek's lust for the 4670. It gets blown out of the water by the 9600GT and costs almost the same amount of money($7 difference between the cheapest 512MB 4670 and an OC BFG 9600GT- they aren't that close performance wise). He has done everything in his power to try and shield the 4670 from going head to head with the 9600GT- every other site compared them as they are obviously direct competitors. For some reason he states the 9600GTs are priced against the 4830s while a quick check of NewEgg shows that the 9800GTs are the ones at that price point- cheapest 9800GT is $5 more then the cheapest 4830. I'm not arguing that the 4830 doesn't give more bang for the buck at that price point, but it isn't going head to head with the 9600GT(the nV parts also tend to have decent bundles, but I can understand ignoring those).

The rest of the price points seem to be handled relatively well, but the only reason I know that is I checked them. Sadly, that seems to be a requirement when getting any buying reccomendation from AT lately

I always thought the 4670 was meant to be priced against the 9600 GSO/8800 GS. I think the real issue at work here is there are so many cards within so few dollars of each other that all perform a lot better than anything else at that price point (comparatively, even) than ever before.

I mean, choice is great, but it does muddy the waters a bit.

 

[BenSkywalker]

I always thought the 4670 was meant to be priced against the 9600 GSO/8800 GS.

If ATi starts selling the 4890 for $50 it should be compared against the 9500GT no matter where the initial target was. Right now the 4670 IS gonig against the 9600GT no matter where AT may want the cards to line up. It is a cheap part on the lowest end of the spectrum, I don't understand why they feel the need to protect that part.

until Intel and AMD remove Nvidia's place from the market with Larrabee

You may want to wait until you see GT300 before you say too much about that. I'll say this, nV and Intel are clearly going head to head in the near future, AMD doesn't seem to want to play the same game.

Nvidia's scared and I think everyone here knows it.

You seriously don't understand their mindset at all. I'm not saying they are right or wrong, but they sure as hell aren't scared.

having started with a 3dfx monster 3d

ATi is positioning themselves exactly how 3dfx did in their end days. nVidia was too concerned adding a bunch of useless features and making their chips needlessly complex, 3dfx was focused on offering smaller less expensive parts that only included what people needed at the time and then could scale up to higher performance levels. People can read that as they may, but it is how it happened.

 

[Scali]

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
All the sophism in the world can't erase the fact one company has older, outdated hardware specs.

At the same time, the other company is lacking in software support. They don't have a good alternative to Cuda, there is no sign of OpenCL support yet, and there's no sign of Havok to answer PhysX.
And let's not even get started on AMD's poor show in Avivo and Espresso.

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
AMD is going to be a more stable ship longterm because Intel has a vested interest in keeping them alive

Even if Intel may want to keep AMD alive, 'stable' is not quite the way in which they intend to do this. Intel has fought a very aggressive pricewar against AMD in the past few years, leaving AMD on the verge of bankrupcy and lacking the funds to properly innovate with their product line. Intel basically bled AMD dry.

 

[TheMeanestGuest]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

I always thought the 4670 was meant to be priced against the 9600 GSO/8800 GS.

If ATi starts selling the 4890 for $50 it should be compared against the 9500GT no matter where the initial target was. Right now the 4670 IS gonig against the 9600GT no matter where AT may want the cards to line up. It is a cheap part on the lowest end of the spectrum, I don't understand why they feel the need to protect that part.

It seems to me that the 4670 and 9600 GSO are both sitting at $70, whereas the GT starts at $5 more (most being $10). I don't think the comparison is entirely invalid. If we wanted to just keep comparing cards like that the cheapest 4830 is just $3 more (most being $10) and then of course the cheapest 4850 is just $10 more. You can just keep going, it doesn't end.

Thusly, I think it fair to compare two cards at exactly the same price.

Edit: This is disregarding rebates, which I hate and thus exclude them in what perhaps is a not entirely objective fashion ;Q

(ex. $10 MIR on a couple 4670s, $10 MIR on ~$90 9600 GTs, $10 MIR on some 4830s, etc, etc.)

 

[Obsoleet]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

I always thought the 4670 was meant to be priced against the 9600 GSO/8800 GS.

If ATi starts selling the 4890 for $50 it should be compared against the 9500GT no matter where the initial target was. Right now the 4670 IS gonig against the 9600GT no matter where AT may want the cards to line up. It is a cheap part on the lowest end of the spectrum, I don't understand why they feel the need to protect that part.

until Intel and AMD remove Nvidia's place from the market with Larrabee

You may want to wait until you see GT300 before you say too much about that. I'll say this, nV and Intel are clearly going head to head in the near future, AMD doesn't seem to want to play the same game.

They have both options available, x86 and GPU rasterization. They also know their position in the market being invaluable to Intel. Intel has made it clear they need AMD as if it was Intel itself. This is just not the case for Nvidia.

Nvidia's scared and I think everyone here knows it.

You seriously don't understand their mindset at all. I'm not saying they are right or wrong, but they sure as hell aren't scared.

Judging from their bashing of Larrabee at every conference (which Intel is soaking up as free publicity).. I see that as fear. Maybe it's confidence they know Intel has nothing of importance on the way, but that's a difficult deduction to make..

having started with a 3dfx monster 3d

ATi is positioning themselves exactly how 3dfx did in their end days. nVidia was too concerned adding a bunch of useless features and making their chips needlessly complex, 3dfx was focused on offering smaller less expensive parts that only included what people needed at the time and then could scale up to higher performance levels. People can read that as they may, but it is how it happened.

That's true with the V3 but they were in trouble and fragile before the V3 launch which is why they couldn't maintain their company. The V3 itself was a great chip, I don't know if I'd call their advanced AA at the time as focusing on the 'core' of what people needed though.

Originally posted by: OCguy
Your post full of opinions does not make it fact. ATi has had as many isolated driver issues as nV has recently. And most people with both companies never experience a driver issue with either.

For drivers most will agree that it really is about equal between the two. If anyone has an edge (if one was forced to answer one or the other), most people would give the edge to ATI. Just being equal with Nvidia in drivers removes the "gold standard" branding.

Originally posted by: OCguy
nV has the most powerful GPUs, so "outdated hardware specs" is just misleading and basically FUD. GT300 rumors have it sitting pretty nice as well.

You valuing DX10.1 is the same as someone valuing CUDA, Physx, and better board partners.

Not really. Those are proprietary solutions. People try to confuse each other making the equation, and while DX is also proprietary.. it's in another league entirely from the factors you described (Physx, Havok, CUDA ect). It's a decisive factor in the market that none of the sort of things you listed ever were, nor will be barring something traumatic. It's like Nvidia 3d vision becoming popular, slim to no liklihood.

Originally posted by: OCguy
Basically your post is full of opinions and in no way contains tangible facts. Which is fine, as we are all entitled to our opinions.

True. But most honest observers who aren't tied to a company would agree that it is the truth.

Originally posted by: OCguy
According to your sig, you have the 8800GT, one of the most successful discreet GPUs of all time. Id be interested in what issues you have faced that have made you come to these conclusions?

I don't dislike Nvidia at all as far as their products. But they're hurting their reputation greatly with attempting to throw their "weight" around. I base it on the apparant quality drop in drivers since the olden days, ATI's better Vista launch (every little bit of hard work slowly builds reputation), general public opinion such as yours that they are now both equal, and driver bugs I've encountered of which were far more rare in Nvidia's past.

My 8800GT was a downgrade from an 8800GTX (that I bought on launch). I made money back on that one. I have really liked and appreciated what Nvidia's done, but they're stepping into the danger zone both politically with their war of words (with little to back it up) and really losing the edge in hardware and software to ATI. Even if the software edge has more of an equalization, it's still a loss for them.
ATI decided a few years ago to go to a monthly release schedule to improve their driver reputation, and it's worked and deserves praise for the hard work that has paid off.

I've always believed in Huang's leadership but messing with Intel leaves little hope left and I don't think they're going to back off. It's just not good.. for the longterm if Nvidia doesn't survive AMD might have substantially better driver support if Nvidia is no longer producing GPUs.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Doesn't the HD4670 outperform its predecessor ala HD3870? Wouldn't that mean its pretty close against the 9600GT in terms of performance? (Since the HD3870 was similiar in performance to a 9600GT)

 

[TheMeanestGuest]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Doesn't the HD4670 outperform its predecessor ala HD3870? Wouldn't that mean its pretty close against the 9600GT in terms of performance? (Since the HD3870 was similiar in performance to a 9600GT)

Yes, in performance I'm fairly certain the 9600 GT, the GSO and the 3870 and 4670 all perform fairly similarly.

 

[Scali]

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
They have both options available, x86 and GPU rasterization. They also know their position in the market being invaluable to Intel. Intel has made it clear they need AMD as if it was Intel itself. This is just not the case for Nvidia.

Currently the market needs nVidia though. They don't need Intel, and Intel will have to prove themselves first. Not only with hardware, but also with reliable drivers and good stability and compatibility.

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
Judging from their bashing of Larrabee at every conference (which Intel is soaking up as free publicity).. I see that as fear. Maybe it's confidence they know Intel has nothing of importance on the way, but that's a difficult deduction to make..

Yet you speak like you've got it all figured out already.
I say we give Intel a chance to demo their Larrabee first. Intel itself claims that the first generation of Larrabee is only going to aim at mainstream performance. So by Intel's own statement, nVidia indeed doesn't have all that much to fear yet.
We'll have to see if Intel reaches their goal. nVidia knows better than Intel what mainstream performance will be by the time Larrabee is released, because nVidia and AMD define what mainstream performance is. It's quite possible that the upcoming DX11 parts move the goalposts a great deal, making Intel miss their mark.

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
Not really. Those are proprietary solutions. People try to confuse each other making the equation, and while DX is also proprietary.. it's in another league entirely from the factors you described (Physx, Havok, CUDA ect). It's a decisive factor in the market that none of the sort of things you listed ever were, nor will be barring something traumatic. It's like Nvidia 3d vision becoming popular, slim to no liklihood.

I think you're the one trying to confuse people, while Cuda and PhysX are actually being used in the industry. Cuda is becoming quite popular as a supercomputing solution at universities all over the world. How's that for proprietary?

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker


ATi is positioning themselves exactly how 3dfx did in their end days.

The way they are bleeding money they could go out of business just as 3dFX did. Maybe NVIDIA will buy them as well. This forum would probably implode if that happened.

I'm not sure how they can even go on another year though. Not with how deep in debt they are and how much money the keep losing.

 

[Obsoleet]

CUDA is pretty irrelevant in this conversation, and a pretty fragile market to boast about. Physx, almost entirely irrelevant stuff there but makes for good talking points. If people are just loving it up with Physx more power to them, but I'm afraid most consumers could care less. Everything is "used in the industry", but they all still pale in comparison to the importance of DirectX implementations.

Implementations of which in 11 has ray tracing support, and zero optimizations for multiGPU advancements. That's telling, stunning and evidence that Intel has been flexing nuts. It's not good for little Nvidia. Intel can have a massive impact on the market by simply putting ray tracing implementations in everything they ship. The main item up for question is their rasterization emulation software and if times do indeed change on Nvidia, they are going to be sitting with AMD having x86 and Intel having it as well being the odd man out. No ones going to let AMD go under for many reasons, they play second fiddle for Intel very well. Nvidia does not and I pity the precarious situation they've created.

 

[yusux]

meh those 285 could be alot cheaper, and the 280 should be same price as a 4890 imo

 

[shangshang]

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
Good for ATI to starve sales from NV and build reputation. The reputation is strong enough now that guys like me won't consider an Nvidia card. I see no purpose to their lineup of DX10.0 cards with mediocre performance. It's also bad for NV because this is one of their few markets. AMD has other major markets to fall back on if one collapses. With Nvidia out of the mainboard business, they're scrambling (screaming) in desperation... and the 800lb gorilla (Intel) is working to shut their big traps for good.

AMD's major markets are GPU and CPU. If the GPU market collapses, then the next major market for AMD is the CPU market, which it is and will continue to be owned by Intel.

NV's major market is GPU. But they are looking to expand into the mobile device market where graphics on these devices are still in their infancy and still has lots of room to grow. NV has been linked to Apple, Samsung, and some pretty high profile companies.

Your oversimplification of NV and glorious espouse of AMD make you look like a fanboy even though you say you aren't. Practice what your preach dude.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: Obsoleet

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
It is mediocre, they are on par with ATI. They are nothing exceptional anymore. You could say ATI is mediocre too (they are), but they aren't sitting with DX10.0 cards and trying to sell it as something special.

If they are both so mediocre, who makes a better gpu?

It's getting to the point everything on the market is pretty stale.
At the moment, ATI has the best offerings with tossing in DX10.1 + audio processing. I think from an engineering standpoint the Ars Technica crowd have always stood by ATI's engineering over Nvidia's (for hardware).

Yeah, the gpu's from both camps are getting bit long in the tooth, but we also know that both are working on new (DX11) parts. It's always this way before a new generation launches.

As far as sales charts, individual examples are ok but I think in the future ATI's surge will show up in marketshare increases. It always goes back and forth and one could say things will remain even as they pretty much always have (until Intel and AMD remove Nvidia's place from the market with Larrabee). Nvidia's scared and I think everyone here knows it. Their arrogant commentary has left a bad taste in my mouth. Considering the slow decline in driver quality over the years (it isn't at the level of Carmack's gold standard comments from years ago) and rather unappealing hardware compared to what ATIs been doing.

As for me, I've never been leaning this way towards ATI in my life.. having started with a 3dfx monster 3d and then moving to other 3dfx cards, then a few ATI and NV products that convinced me I was going to have better luck (at the time) with Nvidia... for the first time a lot of us are starting to be disillusioned with the almighty Nvidia.

It's just about high time to be moving towards ATI's lineup, they've got it figured out and overall have a better lineup... and will be first to market with DX11.
Debates on DX10.1 and other DX revisions are moot when performance is the same (or better bang/buck) and one chipset offers you more advanced hardware.

All the sophism in the world can't erase the fact one company has older, outdated hardware specs.

AMD is going to be a more stable ship longterm because Intel has a vested interest in keeping them alive and Nvidia is just a mouthy, fabless Intel-wannabe (or at least that's what their arrogance has truly made themselves out to be and it's not pretty). I'm not an AMD fan, or an anything-fan, just calling like I see it. My observations are too raw for most who would rather dance around it.

Not sure why you think you opinions are too "raw" for some to handle... We all have an opinion, and you have a right to yours. Although, I would suggest actually upgrading to the latest generation of cards before proclaiming any of them to be "stale", "mediocre", or a "better lineup".

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
CUDA is pretty irrelevant in this conversation, and a pretty fragile market to boast about. Physx, almost entirely irrelevant stuff there but makes for good talking points. If people are just loving it up with Physx more power to them, but I'm afraid most consumers could care less. Everything is "used in the industry", but they all still pale in comparison to the importance of DirectX implementations.

Implementations of which in 11 has ray tracing support, and zero optimizations for multiGPU advancements. That's telling, stunning and evidence that Intel has been flexing nuts. It's not good for little Nvidia. Intel can have a massive impact on the market by simply putting ray tracing implementations in everything they ship. The main item up for question is their rasterization emulation software and if times do indeed change on Nvidia, they are going to be sitting with AMD having x86 and Intel having it as well being the odd man out. No ones going to let AMD go under for many reasons, they play second fiddle for Intel very well. Nvidia does not and I pity the precarious situation they've created.

You need to put one of these -->IMHO<-- at the end of your posts dude.

 

[Scali]

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
Implementations of which in 11 has ray tracing support

I think you should have stopped talking just before this sentence

 

[SiliconDoc]

Obsoleet:It's getting to the point everything on the market is pretty stale.

Except you have an 8800GT, an nvidia card which, should be obsolete by now, but for you isn't, it's all you got.

Obsoleet: At the moment, ATI has the best offerings with tossing in DX10.1 + audio processing. I think from an engineering standpoint the Ars Technica crowd have always stood by ATI's engineering over Nvidia's (for hardware).



Obsoleet: As far as sales charts, individual examples are ok but I think in the future ATI's surge will show up in marketshare increases.

You hope, because they are pathetically BEHIND right now. You won't be honest enough to say that, though, just double talk hope about the future, right ?

Obsoleet: It always goes back and forth and one could say things will remain even as they pretty much always have (until Intel and AMD remove Nvidia's place from the market with Larrabee).

Staying pretty much as it always has means NVIDIA OWNS ati with more than a TWO TO one market share ADVANTAGE. While Nvidia makes profits every quarter, ati LOSES every single quarter, as does their parent amd - ati is bleeding a billion in losses every year with only two billion in sales. That's like ati spending $100 on every videocard and selling it for $66 - one third loss ON EVERY CARD ATI SELLS !

Obsoleet: Nvidia's scared and I think everyone here knows it. Their arrogant commentary has left a bad taste in my mouth.

Hahaha ! Their arrogance ? OMG !

Obsoleet: Considering the slow decline in driver quality over the years (it isn't at the level of Carmack's gold standard comments from years ago) and rather unappealing hardware compared to what ATIs been doing.

It seems to me it's all in your head mr 8800GT. You tried to pose as an engineering savvy ars guy, but have you ever used any of the newer competing cards you speak of, even in a friends or parents computer ? I don't think so. Admittedly AT here with Derek is a big red fan hole, but intelligent people on the internet should find that easy to discover.


Obsoleet: As for me, I've never been leaning this way towards ATI in my life..

Do you think that excuses your behavior now ? How about you get a few ati cards of recent note then get back to us ? Put your engineering theory to the test.

Obsoleet: having started with a 3dfx monster 3d and then moving to other 3dfx cards, then a few ATI and NV products that convinced me I was going to have better luck (at the time) with Nvidia... for the first time a lot of us are starting to be disillusioned with the almighty Nvidia.

I suppose reading internet fanboy FUD can do that. Especially Derek's work.

Obsoleet: It's just about high time to be moving towards ATI's lineup, they've got it figured out and overall have a better lineup...

Better tell Tom's - the "overall lineup" SUM OF ALL GAMES latest game chart leaves ati in the DIRT. Please enjoy the link !

http://www.tomshardware.com/ch...ks-1920x1200,1199.html

Obsoleet: and will be first to market with DX11.
Debates on DX10.1 and other DX revisions are moot when performance is the same (or better bang/buck) and one chipset offers you more advanced hardware.

DDR5 was NEEDED for ati to compete, and they still need it. Let me know when they are advanced enough to make a core that runs fast enough on ddr3 TO KEEP UP WITH NVIDIA'S CORE TECH !

Obsoleet: All the sophism in the world can't erase the fact one company has older, outdated hardware specs.

LOL - The ati BEST "core tech" is equivalent to the G92. DDR5 is the "tech", the only "tech" that makes ati sing. FACE THE TRUTH, PLEASE.

Obsoleet: AMD is going to be a more stable ship longterm because Intel has a vested interest in keeping them alive

LOL - the biggest competitor is going to keep AMD alive. I guess your engineer mind figured that out. Intel would never "takeover" or produce THOUSAND DOLLAR chips because amd can't keep up, would they ? Doesn't INTEL do exactly what you WHINED about nvidia doing, and DOESN'T INTEL DO IT CURRENTLY ?!! !??
Yes, intel does, just check those big quad prices, or any top then flavor going back for YEARS - they are as bad as and often WORSE than the worst nvidia pricing scheme. But you love and support them, for your ati fantasy...
LOL
Dude, I'm trying to help you, really. Get some help, man.

Obsoleet: and Nvidia is just a mouthy, fabless Intel-wannabe (or at least that's what their arrogance has truly made themselves out to be and it's not pretty).

Ahh, and you're not a mouthy ati cardless wahhnabe ? Are you any better than you claim nvidia is ?

Obsoleet: I'm not an AMD fan, or an anything-fan, just calling like I see it. My observations are too raw for most who would rather dance around it.

Not too raw for me. I'm certainly too raw for you, because I have the factual counterpoints that blow your bias to bits, useless bits.
Here's a clue - you are a raging red fan, before you've even gotten any of their latest cards or nvidias. Ironically you're gaming on the GT8800 /g80/g92 "rebrand" core you've been taught to hate, that's been keeping your budget going for years)...
You've been reading red raging rooster rooting and lies on the internet, like "the ati core saves money" - WHILE ATI LOSES 33% ON EVERY VIDEOCARD THEY SELL - SOMETHING THE RED ROOTING ROOSTERS FAIL TO MENTION EVERY SINGLE TIME THEY BRAG. It then crystalizes in your brain, and you're " suddenly an engineering styled thinker " , and not too proud to brag about it.
Congratulations.
AND NO, NOONE AGREES ATI DRIVERS ARE AS GOOD AS NVIDIAS ! NOONE ! NOT EVEN RED FANS WITH THE LATEST ATI CARDS- THEY SAY THEY REMOVE THE ATI BLOAT AND USE ALTERNATE UTILITIES WITH JUST THE BARE ati emasculated driver file - no CCC, no this no that - cut down - w/trays tools and riva tuner....
The very biggest, richest, reddest carded red fans say so.
So no, ati drivers are not as good PERIOD.
That's the truth, not my opinion.

 

[SiliconDoc]

PS !
Even Derek, a super bigtime red rooster ati fan says the ati drivers ARE NOT UP TO NVIDIA SNUFF !
He had a whole WHINE about the monthly releases - it's STILL on his review ! He put down ATI considerably for BREAKING other games with their too fast monthly driver releases, and for NOT HAVING GAME SPECIFIC profiles or forced dual card clicks in their CP like NVIDIA HAS !
So don't even GO THERE claiming the ati drivers are equivalent to nvidias - they are INFERIOR and the biggest red fanboys KNOW IT.
--
Let's not forget the 4770 unavailable for purchase driver issues either ! Gee, cat 9.4 DOESN'T WORK ! IT WON'T WORK ! That was a "problem" pointed out as those few that got the card already pointed in review after review -
Yes, if you get the right one in there, you'll be okay, even GREAT in xfire like GTX9800 SLI ( which competes head to head but often isn't shown in the reviews - ) -
BUT, if you're some user who purchased the 4770 - or got it as a present from mommie or daddie, where does that problem leave you, unless you're an EXPERT ? NOT SITTING PRETTY !
On the other hand, nvidia drivers go in like butter - I can even think of hearing ANYWHERE on the THOUSANDS of reviews I've read, of a similar nvidia driver problem !
You can't EITHER !
It hasn't happened !
---
the drivers are not equivalent !
NVIDIA IS BETTER, PERIOD!

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

Originally posted by: SiliconDoc
PS !
Even Derek, a super bigtime red rooster ati fan says the ati drivers ARE NOT UP TO NVIDIA SNUFF !
He had a whole WHINE about the monthly releases - it's STILL on his review ! He put down ATI considerably for BREAKING other games with their too fast monthly driver releases, and for NOT HAVING GAME SPECIFIC profiles or forced dual card clicks in their CP like NVIDIA HAS !
So don't even GO THERE claiming the ati drivers are equivalent to nvidias - they are INFERIOR and the biggest red fanboys KNOW IT.
--
Let's not forget the 4770 unavailable for purchase driver issues either ! Gee, cat 9.4 DOESN'T WORK ! IT WON'T WORK ! That was a "problem" pointed out as those few that got the card already pointed in review after review -
Yes, if you get the right one in there, you'll be okay, even GREAT in xfire like GTX9800 SLI ( which competes head to head but often isn't shown in the reviews - ) -
BUT, if you're some user who purchased the 4770 - or got it as a present from mommie or daddie, where does that problem leave you, unless you're an EXPERT ? NOT SITTING PRETTY !
On the other hand, nvidia drivers go in like butter - I can even think of hearing ANYWHERE on the THOUSANDS of reviews I've read, of a similar nvidia driver problem !
You can't EITHER !
It hasn't happened !
---
the drivers are not equivalent !
NVIDIA IS BETTER, PERIOD!

I prefer ATI's drivers to Nvidia's actually.

 

[apoppin]

ATi drivers are equivalent to Nvidia's.

i have both

- the only people who care that Nv is "beaten" is ATi fans

People just buy what is advertised .. Nvidia doesn't discount their cards as quickly as AMD does and they keep right on selling them - market share hasn't shifted

 

[Forumpanda]

I think the CC is far too bloated for what it needs to do.
I like the monthly releases, makes you feel stuff is getting fixes quicker (which it generally is).
I think ATI is far more OS/linux friendly though I don't think much have come of it.

So from where I'm watching the whole driver think is basically a wash, its 2009 now and both camps have enough experience making drivers that its rare to see any big (non user) problems.

I do believe that nvidia got much more at stake than AMD, hoping that TSMC's 40nm yields will improve, if not the g300 is looking very unprofitable.
But if the yields turn out amazing then I do think they will still win simply by strength of trademark, and the fact that people still do buy based on absolute performance.

It is the same reason car companies compete in motor sports, people aren't buying the cars driving around on the motor sport tracks, they are however buying a connection with the winning team/company, its a mind share thing, people like being part of the winning group, I do think AMDs strategy of not even trying is a bit silly.

And I know that if I forget to put the word think, believe, or opinion in every sentence it will get angry replies by some fan boy.

 

[novasatori]

Originally posted by: apoppin
ATi drivers are equivalent to Nvidia's.

i have both

- the only people who care that Nv is "beaten" is ATi fans

People just buy what is advertised .. Nvidia doesn't discount their cards as quickly as AMD does and they keep right on selling them - market share hasn't shifted

when they're working properly they're equal

I can't tell you how many times I've seen and/or heard of the CCC not installing/running properly, sometimes without fixes until the next monthly update.

Yet with NV these types of problems have never happened to me.

 

[apoppin]

I can't tell you how many times I've seen and/or heard of the CCC not installing/running properly, sometimes without fixes until the next monthly update.

Yet with NV these types of problems have never happened to me.

i've *HEARD* ???

... "never happened to me"

 

[Scali]

Originally posted by: Forumpanda
I do believe that nvidia got much more at stake than AMD, hoping that TSMC's 40nm yields will improve, if not the g300 is looking very unprofitable.

There is also UMC.