Wow NV is basically beaten at all price points

[novasatori]

Originally posted by: apoppin

I can't tell you how many times I've seen and/or heard of the CCC not installing/running properly, sometimes without fixes until the next monthly update.

Yet with NV these types of problems have never happened to me.

i've *HEARD*

... "never happened to me"

Its happened to me plenty of times, hence the *SEEN*

That is also why when my 4850s went on the fritz they were all replaced with GTX260s

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: novasatori

Originally posted by: apoppin

I can't tell you how many times I've seen and/or heard of the CCC not installing/running properly, sometimes without fixes until the next monthly update.

Yet with NV these types of problems have never happened to me.

i've *HEARD*

... "never happened to me"

Its happened to me plenty of times, hence the *SEEN*

That is also why when my 4850s went on the fritz they were all replaced with GTX260s

just as many people go the other way; i have occasion to use both and i have compared each set of drivers released from each vendor since August; they are very reliable - 185.85 got got bad press and the 2 FarCry Hotfixes were embarrassing to AMD - so it is pretty equal; and they both have drivers every month

CCC *used* to be bloated and buggy. Now it is very much improved and is a very decent control panel

 

[*kjm]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: novasatori

Originally posted by: apoppin

I can't tell you how many times I've seen and/or heard of the CCC not installing/running properly, sometimes without fixes until the next monthly update.

Yet with NV these types of problems have never happened to me.

i've *HEARD*

... "never happened to me"

Its happened to me plenty of times, hence the *SEEN*

That is also why when my 4850s went on the fritz they were all replaced with GTX260s

just as many people go the other way; i have occasion to use both and i have compared each set of drivers released from each vendor since August; they are very reliable - 185.85 got got bad press and the 2 FarCry Hotfixes were embarrassing to AMD - so it is pretty equal; and they both have drivers every month

CCC *used* to be bloated and buggy. Now it is very much improved and is a very decent control panel

apoppin is right on this one.....
I have been running both NV and ATI in both my computers for years and I will also say both drivers are up to snuff. Sure there may be problems but both companys come out with fixes. I think were a lot of problems come from is everyone updating drivers for 1 to 2 fps when the ones they are using work for them already. My moto is if it works leave it alone and if the driver update is said to fix a problem then update it.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: novasatori

Originally posted by: apoppin

I can't tell you how many times I've seen and/or heard of the CCC not installing/running properly, sometimes without fixes until the next monthly update.

Yet with NV these types of problems have never happened to me.

i've *HEARD*

... "never happened to me"

Its happened to me plenty of times, hence the *SEEN*

That is also why when my 4850s went on the fritz they were all replaced with GTX260s

just as many people go the other way; i have occasion to use both and i have compared each set of drivers released from each vendor since August; they are very reliable - 185.85 got got bad press and the 2 FarCry Hotfixes were embarrassing to AMD - so it is pretty equal; and they both have drivers every month

CCC *used* to be bloated and buggy. Now it is very much improved and is a very decent control panel

Users personal preferences have alway been formed by their experiences with any given company. You could call me Captain Obvious here, but it seems it may not be so obvious why people actually do have a preference of one over another.

It goes without saying that I personally have had a vastly better experience using Nvidia hardware than I have using ATI hardware. Someone else may be the polar opposite.
So, in other words guys/gals, this "I have never had any problems with my Nvidia drivers/hardware" or "I have never had any problems with my ATI drivers/hardware" is absolutely pointless.

It all depends on two things.
1. You
2. How your rig is configured. (All the software you have running, how many previous drivers have you had before your current one, and how many times have you changed from ATI to Nvidia or the other way around. How long has it been since you wiped your drive and did a fresh install of your OS and updated your drivers yada yada yada).

I don't have to tell you which companies products I have had less trouble with. Others will be directly opposite.

But I have no idea what category Obsoleet falls under. LOL. That's a new one.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: novasatori

Originally posted by: apoppin

I can't tell you how many times I've seen and/or heard of the CCC not installing/running properly, sometimes without fixes until the next monthly update.

Yet with NV these types of problems have never happened to me.

i've *HEARD*

... "never happened to me"

Its happened to me plenty of times, hence the *SEEN*

That is also why when my 4850s went on the fritz they were all replaced with GTX260s

just as many people go the other way; i have occasion to use both and i have compared each set of drivers released from each vendor since August; they are very reliable - 185.85 got got bad press and the 2 FarCry Hotfixes were embarrassing to AMD - so it is pretty equal; and they both have drivers every month

CCC *used* to be bloated and buggy. Now it is very much improved and is a very decent control panel

Users personal preferences have alway been formed by their experiences with any given company. You could call me Captain Obvious here, but it seems it may not be so obvious why people actually do have a preference of one over another.

It goes without saying that I personally have had a vastly better experience using Nvidia hardware than I have using ATI hardware. Someone else may be the polar opposite.
So, in other words guys/gals, this "I have never had any problems with my Nvidia drivers/hardware" or "I have never had any problems with my ATI drivers/hardware" is absolutely pointless.

It all depends on two things.
1. You
2. How your rig is configured. (All the software you have running, how many previous drivers have you had before your current one, and how many times have you changed from ATI to Nvidia or the other way around. How long has it been since you wiped your drive and did a fresh install of your OS and updated your drivers yada yada yada).

I don't have to tell you which companies products I have had less trouble with. Others will be directly opposite.

But I have no idea what category Obsoleet falls under. LOL. That's a new one.

Well then, Captain Obvious, aren't we agreeing them?

i have great experience with both vendors

and you DID ask - you begged me - to call you capt'n
- but then i say, it is metaphysical

 

[ArchAngel777]

The Via Chrome9 on-board graphics are probably the most advanced hardware out there. Eveyone knows this, sheesh.

 

[Paratus]

Well I've only used ATI's drivers. But I've been very happy with them.

While I'm way behind the hardware curve here, (X1950PRO 512 AGP / P4 3.2E) I have yet to have a driver problem in over 5 years of ATI use. I truly feel that I've gotten a good experience and the hardware has aged well especially compared to the 7 series

Before I managed to fix my current rig (dammit! ) I was going to go with a 4890 as the article shows the price to performance can't be beat.
posted via Palm Pre

 

[Paratus]

Originally posted by: SiliconDoc
Obsoleet:It's getting to the point everything on the market is pretty stale.

Except you have an 8800GT, an nvidia card which, should be obsolete by now, but for you isn't, it's all you got.

Obsoleet: At the moment, ATI has the best offerings with tossing in DX10.1 + audio processing. I think from an engineering standpoint the Ars Technica crowd have always stood by ATI's engineering over Nvidia's (for hardware).



Obsoleet: As far as sales charts, individual examples are ok but I think in the future ATI's surge will show up in marketshare increases.

You hope, because they are pathetically BEHIND right now. You won't be honest enough to say that, though, just double talk hope about the future, right ?

Obsoleet: It always goes back and forth and one could say things will remain even as they pretty much always have (until Intel and AMD remove Nvidia's place from the market with Larrabee).

Staying pretty much as it always has means NVIDIA OWNS ati with more than a TWO TO one market share ADVANTAGE. While Nvidia makes profits every quarter, ati LOSES every single quarter, as does their parent amd - ati is bleeding a billion in losses every year with only two billion in sales. That's like ati spending $100 on every videocard and selling it for $66 - one third loss ON EVERY CARD ATI SELLS !

Obsoleet: Nvidia's scared and I think everyone here knows it. Their arrogant commentary has left a bad taste in my mouth.

Hahaha ! Their arrogance ? OMG !

Obsoleet: Considering the slow decline in driver quality over the years (it isn't at the level of Carmack's gold standard comments from years ago) and rather unappealing hardware compared to what ATIs been doing.

It seems to me it's all in your head mr 8800GT. You tried to pose as an engineering savvy ars guy, but have you ever used any of the newer competing cards you speak of, even in a friends or parents computer ? I don't think so. Admittedly AT here with Derek is a big red fan hole, but intelligent people on the internet should find that easy to discover.


Obsoleet: As for me, I've never been leaning this way towards ATI in my life..

Do you think that excuses your behavior now ? How about you get a few ati cards of recent note then get back to us ? Put your engineering theory to the test.

Obsoleet: having started with a 3dfx monster 3d and then moving to other 3dfx cards, then a few ATI and NV products that convinced me I was going to have better luck (at the time) with Nvidia... for the first time a lot of us are starting to be disillusioned with the almighty Nvidia.

I suppose reading internet fanboy FUD can do that. Especially Derek's work.

Obsoleet: It's just about high time to be moving towards ATI's lineup, they've got it figured out and overall have a better lineup...

Better tell Tom's - the "overall lineup" SUM OF ALL GAMES latest game chart leaves ati in the DIRT. Please enjoy the link !

http://www.tomshardware.com/ch...ks-1920x1200,1199.html

Obsoleet: and will be first to market with DX11.
Debates on DX10.1 and other DX revisions are moot when performance is the same (or better bang/buck) and one chipset offers you more advanced hardware.

DDR5 was NEEDED for ati to compete, and they still need it. Let me know when they are advanced enough to make a core that runs fast enough on ddr3 TO KEEP UP WITH NVIDIA'S CORE TECH !

Obsoleet: All the sophism in the world can't erase the fact one company has older, outdated hardware specs.

LOL - The ati BEST "core tech" is equivalent to the G92. DDR5 is the "tech", the only "tech" that makes ati sing. FACE THE TRUTH, PLEASE.

Obsoleet: AMD is going to be a more stable ship longterm because Intel has a vested interest in keeping them alive

LOL - the biggest competitor is going to keep AMD alive. I guess your engineer mind figured that out. Intel would never "takeover" or produce THOUSAND DOLLAR chips because amd can't keep up, would they ? Doesn't INTEL do exactly what you WHINED about nvidia doing, and DOESN'T INTEL DO IT CURRENTLY ?!! !??
Yes, intel does, just check those big quad prices, or any top then flavor going back for YEARS - they are as bad as and often WORSE than the worst nvidia pricing scheme. But you love and support them, for your ati fantasy...
LOL
Dude, I'm trying to help you, really. Get some help, man.

Obsoleet: and Nvidia is just a mouthy, fabless Intel-wannabe (or at least that's what their arrogance has truly made themselves out to be and it's not pretty).

Ahh, and you're not a mouthy ati cardless wahhnabe ? Are you any better than you claim nvidia is ?

Obsoleet: I'm not an AMD fan, or an anything-fan, just calling like I see it. My observations are too raw for most who would rather dance around it.

Not too raw for me. I'm certainly too raw for you, because I have the factual counterpoints that blow your bias to bits, useless bits.
Here's a clue - you are a raging red fan, before you've even gotten any of their latest cards or nvidias. Ironically you're gaming on the GT8800 /g80/g92 "rebrand" core you've been taught to hate, that's been keeping your budget going for years)...
You've been reading red raging rooster rooting and lies on the internet, like "the ati core saves money" - WHILE ATI LOSES 33% ON EVERY VIDEOCARD THEY SELL - SOMETHING THE RED ROOTING ROOSTERS FAIL TO MENTION EVERY SINGLE TIME THEY BRAG. It then crystalizes in your brain, and you're " suddenly an engineering styled thinker " , and not too proud to brag about it.
Congratulations.
AND NO, NOONE AGREES ATI DRIVERS ARE AS GOOD AS NVIDIAS ! NOONE ! NOT EVEN RED FANS WITH THE LATEST ATI CARDS- THEY SAY THEY REMOVE THE ATI BLOAT AND USE ALTERNATE UTILITIES WITH JUST THE BARE ati emasculated driver file - no CCC, no this no that - cut down - w/trays tools and riva tuner....
The very biggest, richest, reddest carded red fans say so.
So no, ati drivers are not as good PERIOD.
That's the truth, not my opinion.

So your post is basically, "Mmmmm I Love! Nv's creamy goodness!"

I really don't see much difference between your post and his.

Try being more like Wreckage or better yet Keys if your trying to make a point.

 

[sandorski]

Depends on Sales, nothing else. If ATI/AMD are seeing increases in Sales and Nvidia is losing Sales, then ATI/AMD is benefitting greatly. Other scenarios range from Benefitting to $Losing at greater rate.

We won't really know until Sales Data are released. Personally, I bought a Gigabyte 4850 3 weeks back due to the great Price.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Depends on Sales, nothing else. If ATI/AMD are seeing increases in Sales and Nvidia is losing Sales, then ATI/AMD is benefitting greatly. Other scenarios range from Benefitting to $Losing at greater rate.

We won't really know until Sales Data are released. Personally, I bought a Gigabyte 4850 3 weeks back due to the great Price.

Well last quarter they lost market share and dipped to under 1/3 of the market.

 

[sandorski]

That was some time ago now though.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: novasatori

Originally posted by: apoppin

I can't tell you how many times I've seen and/or heard of the CCC not installing/running properly, sometimes without fixes until the next monthly update.

Yet with NV these types of problems have never happened to me.

i've *HEARD*

... "never happened to me"

Its happened to me plenty of times, hence the *SEEN*

That is also why when my 4850s went on the fritz they were all replaced with GTX260s

just as many people go the other way; i have occasion to use both and i have compared each set of drivers released from each vendor since August; they are very reliable - 185.85 got got bad press and the 2 FarCry Hotfixes were embarrassing to AMD - so it is pretty equal; and they both have drivers every month

CCC *used* to be bloated and buggy. Now it is very much improved and is a very decent control panel

Users personal preferences have alway been formed by their experiences with any given company. You could call me Captain Obvious here, but it seems it may not be so obvious why people actually do have a preference of one over another.

It goes without saying that I personally have had a vastly better experience using Nvidia hardware than I have using ATI hardware. Someone else may be the polar opposite.
So, in other words guys/gals, this "I have never had any problems with my Nvidia drivers/hardware" or "I have never had any problems with my ATI drivers/hardware" is absolutely pointless.

It all depends on two things.
1. You
2. How your rig is configured. (All the software you have running, how many previous drivers have you had before your current one, and how many times have you changed from ATI to Nvidia or the other way around. How long has it been since you wiped your drive and did a fresh install of your OS and updated your drivers yada yada yada).

I don't have to tell you which companies products I have had less trouble with. Others will be directly opposite.

But I have no idea what category Obsoleet falls under. LOL. That's a new one.

Well then, Captain Obvious, aren't we agreeing them?

i have great experience with both vendors

and you DID ask - you begged me - to call you capt'n
- but then i say, it is metaphysical

I had a bet with a friend that you would use the "Captain Obvious" quote. That was intentionally just for you. I was hoping I'd lose the bet and you would be original, but you came through. :thumbsup:

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: novasatori

Originally posted by: apoppin

I can't tell you how many times I've seen and/or heard of the CCC not installing/running properly, sometimes without fixes until the next monthly update.

Yet with NV these types of problems have never happened to me.

i've *HEARD*

... "never happened to me"

Its happened to me plenty of times, hence the *SEEN*

That is also why when my 4850s went on the fritz they were all replaced with GTX260s

just as many people go the other way; i have occasion to use both and i have compared each set of drivers released from each vendor since August; they are very reliable - 185.85 got got bad press and the 2 FarCry Hotfixes were embarrassing to AMD - so it is pretty equal; and they both have drivers every month

CCC *used* to be bloated and buggy. Now it is very much improved and is a very decent control panel

Users personal preferences have alway been formed by their experiences with any given company. You could call me Captain Obvious here, but it seems it may not be so obvious why people actually do have a preference of one over another.

It goes without saying that I personally have had a vastly better experience using Nvidia hardware than I have using ATI hardware. Someone else may be the polar opposite.
So, in other words guys/gals, this "I have never had any problems with my Nvidia drivers/hardware" or "I have never had any problems with my ATI drivers/hardware" is absolutely pointless.

It all depends on two things.
1. You
2. How your rig is configured. (All the software you have running, how many previous drivers have you had before your current one, and how many times have you changed from ATI to Nvidia or the other way around. How long has it been since you wiped your drive and did a fresh install of your OS and updated your drivers yada yada yada).

I don't have to tell you which companies products I have had less trouble with. Others will be directly opposite.

But I have no idea what category Obsoleet falls under. LOL. That's a new one.

Well then, Captain Obvious, aren't we agreeing them?

i have great experience with both vendors

and you DID ask - you begged me - to call you capt'n
- but then i say, it is metaphysical

I had a bet with a friend that you would use the "Captain Obvious" quote. That was intentionally just for you. I was hoping I'd lose the bet and you would be original, but you came through. :thumbsup:

You quoted me and then *asked* to be called Capt'n Obvious
--how could i turn down a kind request like that?

You could call me Captain Obvious here

i certainly could; and i did .. just that .. as you wished .. as you expected
--i aim to please, captain

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: novasatori

Originally posted by: apoppin

I can't tell you how many times I've seen and/or heard of the CCC not installing/running properly, sometimes without fixes until the next monthly update.

Yet with NV these types of problems have never happened to me.

i've *HEARD*

... "never happened to me"

Its happened to me plenty of times, hence the *SEEN*

That is also why when my 4850s went on the fritz they were all replaced with GTX260s

just as many people go the other way; i have occasion to use both and i have compared each set of drivers released from each vendor since August; they are very reliable - 185.85 got got bad press and the 2 FarCry Hotfixes were embarrassing to AMD - so it is pretty equal; and they both have drivers every month

CCC *used* to be bloated and buggy. Now it is very much improved and is a very decent control panel

Users personal preferences have alway been formed by their experiences with any given company. You could call me Captain Obvious here, but it seems it may not be so obvious why people actually do have a preference of one over another.

It goes without saying that I personally have had a vastly better experience using Nvidia hardware than I have using ATI hardware. Someone else may be the polar opposite.
So, in other words guys/gals, this "I have never had any problems with my Nvidia drivers/hardware" or "I have never had any problems with my ATI drivers/hardware" is absolutely pointless.

It all depends on two things.
1. You
2. How your rig is configured. (All the software you have running, how many previous drivers have you had before your current one, and how many times have you changed from ATI to Nvidia or the other way around. How long has it been since you wiped your drive and did a fresh install of your OS and updated your drivers yada yada yada).

I don't have to tell you which companies products I have had less trouble with. Others will be directly opposite.

But I have no idea what category Obsoleet falls under. LOL. That's a new one.

Well then, Captain Obvious, aren't we agreeing them?

i have great experience with both vendors

and you DID ask - you begged me - to call you capt'n
- but then i say, it is metaphysical

I had a bet with a friend that you would use the "Captain Obvious" quote. That was intentionally just for you. I was hoping I'd lose the bet and you would be original, but you came through. :thumbsup:

You quoted me and then *asked* to be called Capt'n Obvious
--how could i turn down a kind request like that?

You could call me Captain Obvious here

i certainly could; and i did .. just that .. as you wished .. as you expected
--i aim to please, captain

Are you done? Can we move on now?

 

[apoppin]

Are you done? Can we move on now?

are you?

You took it way the hell off course, Captain

Letsee .. the obvious thing to state is that Nvidia IS beaten at all price points
- except at $300 [someone forgot that this "Price Point" is *owned* by Nvidia and GTX 285 ]

.. but that "beating" does not matter one bit - not to anyone but the bargain conscious - and ATi fans

 

[IlllI]

Originally posted by: nitromullet


If they are both so mediocre, who makes a better gpu?

matrox

 

[evolucion8]

Originally posted by: Scali

At the same time, the other company is lacking in software support. They don't have a good alternative to Cuda, there is no sign of OpenCL support yet, and there's no sign of Havok to answer PhysX.
And let's not even get started on AMD's poor show in Avivo and Espresso.

I've been using Expresso and I hadn't found a single issue yet, but I did found some issues with AVIVO when is transcoding some formats, their output is a long green video loll. Lacking in software support is a null point because if we talk about support, the same could be said about the lack of DX10.1, full VC-1 acceleration and lots of driver issues that were fixed with the latest 186.xx version. OpenCL support has been there since Cats 9.4 and PhysX is a niche market which has very little value to the end user since there's no game which it's playability and inmersiveness is changed by the PhysX technology.

Even if Intel may want to keep AMD alive, 'stable' is not quite the way in which they intend to do this. Intel has fought a very aggressive pricewar against AMD in the past few years, leaving AMD on the verge of bankrupcy and lacking the funds to properly innovate with their product line. Intel basically bled AMD dry.

Wrong, AMD is bleeding money because of their ATi acquisition and the fact that they're just too small to be able to maintain such expensive silicon fabs. Phenom 2 is quite an innovative CPU which offers good performance for cheap, even though it only matches what Intel did when they launched the Penryn architecture.

I don't understand why if AMD is loosing so much market share, why there are more stock of AMD SKU's for example, Newegg. Newegg is not known for overstocking of useless stuff that won't sell.

High End:

GTX series: 71

HD 4800 series: 96

Midrange:

GTS 200 series: 32

HD 4600 series: 53

Low End:

95X0/96X0 series: 93
HD 43x0/45X0 series: 16

From the top sellers which are 63 SKU's.

37 are from nVidia
26 are from ATi

So something is wrong. Probably AMD's cards are disposable or they accounted the nVidia's old inventory that was taken out the last quarter.

 

[apoppin]

I don't understand why if AMD is loosing so much market share, why there are more stock of AMD SKU's for example, Newegg. Newegg is not known for overstocking of useless stuff that won't sell.

They stocked up so they are now are blowing it out at bargain prices .. that is NOT good for AMD's *margin*
- screw marketshare .. Nvidia has it .. AMD needs Profitabilty- something you do not get by discounting your product

 

[evolucion8]

Originally posted by: apoppin
They stocked up so they are now are blowing it out at bargain prices .. that is NOT good for AMD's *margin*
- screw marketshare .. Nvidia has it .. AMD needs Profitabilty- something you do not get by discounting your product

Jum that's true, but considering that the HD 4800 series is considerably cheaper to manufacture, probably they can slash their prices without suffering that much, but it still lowering their magins, specially in the condition that they are which every margin counts.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: evolucion8

Originally posted by: apoppin
They stocked up so they are now are blowing it out at bargain prices .. that is NOT good for AMD's *margin*
- screw marketshare .. Nvidia has it .. AMD needs Profitabilty- something you do not get by discounting your product

Jum that's true, but considering that the HD 4800 series is considerably cheaper to manufacture, probably they can slash their prices without suffering that much, but it still lowering their magins, specially in the condition that they are which every margin counts.

You keep saying that as if it were true

You do not know that

Nvidia has 2 times the GPU orders that AMD has; do you think they pay the same price for their parts or their fabbing?

Nvidia has partners that are less independent than AMD's; perhaps they also pay a bit more than AMD's partners since they discount less and Nvidia's margin is higher at that spot also.

Nvidia doesn't appear to see any NEED to discount .. as you pointed out, their cards sell very well

 

[evolucion8]

Originally posted by: apoppin
You keep saying that as if it were true

You do not know that

Nvidia has 2 times the GPU orders that AMD has; do you think they pay the same price for their parts or their fabbing?

Nvidia has partners that are less independent than AMD's; perhaps they also pay a bit more than AMD's partners since they discount less and Nvidia's margin is higher at that spot also.

Nvidia doesn't appear to see any NEED to discount .. as you pointed out, their cards sell very well

With some common sense, there's no need to do a very deep research, a GPU which is two times bigger, with almost two times more transistors. I find very doubtful that nVidia has two times the GPU orders, because if that's true, why there are fewer GTX SKUs than HD 4800 skus in Newegg's inventory? Why the GTX 295 is so scarce? With such big GPU which is almost two times bigger, will have two times less yields than using the same waffer for the HD 4800 and there's no 55nm issues with neither nVidia or ATi. The only chip that is a cash cow is the G92 which is almost as big as the HD 48X0 card, and is selling well.

 

[TheMeanestGuest]

Originally posted by: evolucion8

With some common sense, there's no need to do a very deep research, a GPU which is two times bigger, with almost two times more transistors. I find very doubtful that nVidia has two times the GPU orders, because if that's true, why there are fewer GTX SKUs than HD 4800 skus in Newegg's inventory? Why the GTX 295 is so scarce? With such big GPU which is almost two times bigger, will have two times less yields than using the same waffer for the HD 4800 and there's no 55nm issues with neither nVidia or ATi. The only chip that is a cash cow is the G92 which is almost as big as the HD 48X0 card, and is selling well.

NV may be spending more money manufacturing their current generation, but I'd imagine a significant portion of their sales are still a result of the 9xxx series and it's derivative, the GTS 250, which are likely cheaper to manufacture (in comparison to the GTX series), being smaller. I have a completely unsubstantiated impression that 9xxx/GTS250 account for a very significant amount of NV sales. I honestly don't understand why the GTS 250 would suddenly be much more appealing with a new name, but whatever.

I had another thought that was relatively important to what I was saying and I think gave my post a point, but I forgot it while I was writing. >_>

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: evolucion8

Originally posted by: apoppin
You keep saying that as if it were true

You do not know that

Nvidia has 2 times the GPU orders that AMD has; do you think they pay the same price for their parts or their fabbing?

Nvidia has partners that are less independent than AMD's; perhaps they also pay a bit more than AMD's partners since they discount less and Nvidia's margin is higher at that spot also.

Nvidia doesn't appear to see any NEED to discount .. as you pointed out, their cards sell very well

With some common sense, there's no need to do a very deep research, a GPU which is two times bigger, with almost two times more transistors. I find very doubtful that nVidia has two times the GPU orders, because if that's true, why there are fewer GTX SKUs than HD 4800 skus in Newegg's inventory? Why the GTX 295 is so scarce? With such big GPU which is almost two times bigger, will have two times less yields than using the same waffer for the HD 4800 and there's no 55nm issues with neither nVidia or ATi. The only chip that is a cash cow is the G92 which is almost as big as the HD 48X0 card, and is selling well.

This is getting a bit ridiculous guys. There are fixed and semi-fixed expenses in the accounting world. Just because nVidia may have higher semi-fixed expenses (which isn't even a fact, BTW, not overall at least) doesn't mean anything! The bottom line - Profit & Loss is what matters.

Asside from that, who cares?

 

[Scali]

Originally posted by: evolucion8
I've been using Expresso and I hadn't found a single issue yet, but I did found some issues with AVIVO when is transcoding some formats, their output is a long green video loll.

Various review sites have reported that Espresso produces lower image quality on AMD GPUs than on the CPU or nVidia GPUs. Much the same problems as Avivo itself (and Espresso probably uses the Avivo libraries internally).

Originally posted by: evolucion8
Lacking in software support is a null point because if we talk about support, the same could be said about the lack of DX10.1, full VC-1 acceleration and lots of driver issues that were fixed with the latest 186.xx version.

That was exactly the point. Both companies have some advantages and disadvantages. There was someone only saying that DX10.1 is an advantage of AMD over nVidia. But nVidia has some advantages aswell, so you could say they cancel eachother out. You could also say, the advantages depend on what the end-user wants to do with it. Some may want an nVidia card despite the lack of DX10.1, because they want to use Cuda video transcoding or such... Others may want an AMD card despite the poor Avivo, because they are only interested in gaming, etc.

Originally posted by: evolucion8
OpenCL support has been there since Cats 9.4

Is it? Haven't heard a single thing about that anywhere. In fact, I've not even heard of AMD submitting drivers to Khronos for conformancy testing, let alone that they passed the test.
Where did you get this from?

Originally posted by: evolucion8
and PhysX is a niche market which has very little value to the end user since there's no game which it's playability and inmersiveness is changed by the PhysX technology.

Well, that's just your opinion. Don't forget that not everyone shares that opinion.

Originally posted by: evolucion8
Wrong, AMD is bleeding money because of their ATi acquisition and the fact that they're just too small to be able to maintain such expensive silicon fabs. Phenom 2 is quite an innovative CPU which offers good performance for cheap, even though it only matches what Intel did when they launched the Penryn architecture.

You can't bleed money for yeras on a single takeover. The real problem isn't the takeover. The real problem is that Core2 happened when AMD was doing this takeover. Core2 is the CPU that dropped AMD's profit margins to near 0. AMD could have taken over ATi with little problem, if they remained on top like in the Athlon64/X2 days, and could charge $1000+ for their top CPUs. Because of Core2, this was no longer the case, and AMD's processors ended up in the bargain basement.
Phenom 2 is about 2 years too late. If you think AMD has it bad now, only competing with Penryn CPUs, wait till Intel launches Core i3/i5, where suddenly the performance of Core i7 is made available to the pricepoints where Phenom 2 operates. It's pretty much guaranteed that AMD is going to take another blow on their profit margins.

 

[Scali]

Originally posted by: TheMeanestGuest
I have a completely unsubstantiated impression that 9xxx/GTS250 account for a very significant amount of NV sales.

I suppose the fact alone that they are cheaper is enough.
In general, the cheaper the part, the higher its volume. The GT200-based cards mainly appeal to the more tech-savvy gamers and enthusiasts.
GTS250 is what the average Joe buys... "Hum, I'll need a videocard... Let's see, nVidia, I know that brand, must be good. Ah, this GTS250 isn't too expensive, I'll get one of those".
It's also the kind of card that OEMs preinstall in systems. They generally don't go for the REALLY high-end ones, even in gaming machines, because they make the machine as a whole too expensive, which is more important than performance. Cheap machines sell better than fast machines, because people like cheap.

Originally posted by: evolucion8
I honestly don't understand why the GTS 250 would suddenly be much more appealing with a new name, but whatever.

I guess this again was done for the average Joe.
They wouldn't understand how a 9800 relates to a 260, 275, 280, 285 or 295.
250 they can understand, it's lower than 260.