WoW private servers

blazerazor

Golden Member
Aug 28, 2003
1,480
0
0
Ive notice there are some pages on the web about World of Warcraft Private Servers.

But they are really vague. What is this? Can you 'legally' run your own World of Warcraft Server, and not pay the fee for them to 'host'.

I also see this allow the altering of the code for mods like the 'tomb raider Naked' mod.
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
0
Do the people running the private server pay for Blizzard's WoW server software?

No, because no such product is sold to the public. Therefore any nonblizzard server would be a violation of Blizzard's IP.

The monthly fee not only helps to offset the cost of running the massive server farms needed to support WoW, along with the IT staff to maintain them. But, it pays the salaries of all the members of the development team that works hard to provide WoW users with new content.
 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
Moderator
Sep 16, 2005
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www.markbetz.net
Probably emulators. What people have done in the past is sniff the network packets, figure out the message architecture, and write an emulator that returns the correct message sets. Doesn't really matter what is running on the box as long as the client sees the right responses.

Not sure that the legal status of this is, but it seems akin to writing an AIM client by sniffing out their message format. If that isn't illegal, then server emulators probably aren't either.
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
0
Originally posted by: Markbnj
Probably emulators. What people have done in the past is sniff the network packets, figure out the message architecture, and write an emulator that returns the correct message sets. Doesn't really matter what is running on the box as long as the client sees the right responses.

Not sure that the legal status of this is, but it seems akin to writing an AIM client by sniffing out their message format. If that isn't illegal, then server emulators probably aren't either.

Would that fall under reverse engineering?
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
21,938
5
0
These suck anyways. You won't have servers with thousands of people... i suppose with how cheap hardware is these days, somebody could set up a dual opteron server and have like maybe a hundred people online simultaneously, but that's still a far cry from a typical WoW servers.
 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
Moderator
Sep 16, 2005
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81
www.markbetz.net
Would that fall under reverse engineering?

If they send packets to your system, I don't think they can prevent you from sniffing them, other than by enforcing their EULA and revoking your license.
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,804
46
91
you won't get fined or go to jail for playing on one but i hear they suck because of several reasons.

2 of the biggest ones:

1 - very low population
2 - bugs / no support
 

AdamSnow

Diamond Member
Nov 21, 2002
5,736
0
76
Without an economy in the game, and with 1/1000 of the people... what would be the fun in playing?
 

doornail

Senior member
Oct 10, 1999
333
0
0
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Would that fall under reverse engineering?

Gah, I hate that the general public has been brainwashed into thinking reverse engineering is bad or illegal. Reverse engineering is GOOD and LEGAL. It's the moral equivalent of building a go kart with a lawnmower engine. Research towards compatibility and alternative use.

Companies push abusive EULA's that attempt to get you to surrender rights you have as a consumer. Sometimes the courts agree with these, like the awful BNET ruling, and sometimes they don't but you cannot go to jail over it. It's a civil matter. EULA's are not laws or contracts. They are "wish lists' where you are forced to promise not to do stuff that you are allowed to do so -- just so you can install the &*#&$# software because now the shrinkwrap is broken and you can't return even if you want.

The way I see it, some folks plunk down $50 for a copy of WoW and now they have CD's. If they want to use them to prop up a table leg, or for a stencil, windchimes, or connect to a free, experimental server there's nothing wrong -- provided they are not transferring copyrighted materials, i.e. all the blizzard models, art, and sound files stay on the PC of the purchaser only.
 

sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
Originally posted by: doornail
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Would that fall under reverse engineering?

Gah, I hate that the general public has been brainwashed into thinking reverse engineering is bad or illegal. Reverse engineering is GOOD and LEGAL. It's the moral equivalent of building a go kart with a lawnmower engine. Research towards compatibility and alternative use.

Companies push abusive EULA's that attempt to get you to surrender rights you have as a consumer. Sometimes the courts agree with these, like the awful BNET ruling, and sometimes they don't but you cannot go to jail over it. It's a civil matter. EULA's are not laws or contracts. They are "wish lists' where you are forced to promise not to do stuff that you are allowed to do so -- just so you can install the &*#&$# software because now the shrinkwrap is broken and you can't return even if you want.

The way I see it, some folks plunk down $50 for a copy of WoW and now they have CD's. If they want to use them to prop up a table leg, or for a stencil, windchimes, or connect to a free, experimental server there's nothing wrong -- provided they are not transferring copyrighted materials, i.e. all the blizzard models, art, and sound files stay on the PC of the purchaser only.

Exactly.
 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
Moderator
Sep 16, 2005
15,682
14
81
www.markbetz.net
The way I see it, some folks plunk down $50 for a copy of WoW and now they have CD's. If they want to use them to prop up a table leg, or for a stencil, windchimes, or connect to a free, experimental server there's nothing wrong -- provided they are not transferring copyrighted materials, i.e. all the blizzard models, art, and sound files stay on the PC of the purchaser only.

Lots of people, including myself from time to time, prefer to view it this way.

Of course, it's completely at odds with the whole software licensing model and the legal assumptions that underlie it.

There are some very different situations in your examples. In some cases you're taking ownership of the physical media. I doubt the copyright owner cares if you scribble phone numbers on the manual either.

In the last you are unilaterally deciding how to use the software, and that is governed by your implied acceptance of the EULA. It would be nice to ignore the whole debate about EULAs, but unfortunately whether you do, or do not, have a contract is sort of a central point.

I dislike restrictive licenses as much as anyone, but I am also a little uneasy with the concept of software as "stuff" that can be owned by right of purchase. In a vague, non-technical way it strikes me as related to the whole software patents mess: a misconception of what software is. I think if it isn't free, then licensing is what works best.
 

Wooglin

Member
May 26, 2004
140
0
0
I have had a bit of experience with them. I logged into MC, commanded /kill, and looted every boss in there.

Then I got extremely bored and went back to regular servers.
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,674
146
106
www.neftastic.com
Originally posted by: doornail
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Would that fall under reverse engineering?

Gah, I hate that the general public has been brainwashed into thinking reverse engineering is bad or illegal. Reverse engineering is GOOD and LEGAL. It's the moral equivalent of building a go kart with a lawnmower engine. Research towards compatibility and alternative use.

Companies push abusive EULA's that attempt to get you to surrender rights you have as a consumer. Sometimes the courts agree with these, like the awful BNET ruling, and sometimes they don't but you cannot go to jail over it. It's a civil matter. EULA's are not laws or contracts. They are "wish lists' where you are forced to promise not to do stuff that you are allowed to do so -- just so you can install the &*#&$# software because now the shrinkwrap is broken and you can't return even if you want.

The way I see it, some folks plunk down $50 for a copy of WoW and now they have CD's. If they want to use them to prop up a table leg, or for a stencil, windchimes, or connect to a free, experimental server there's nothing wrong -- provided they are not transferring copyrighted materials, i.e. all the blizzard models, art, and sound files stay on the PC of the purchaser only.

Quite the contrary. When the DMCA came out, it essentially outlawed reverse engineering.

Now what you can do is claim fair use, that the packets were broadcast to your home and thus you can do whatever you like with them. However, that won't fly, since the packets were not broadcast, but specifically requested from the server by your client by you, thus binding your access to the EULA.

And as much as you wish (and I hate) EULA's were not laws or contracts, you are sorely mistaken. A EULA is a broadly worded binding contract that you have the option to excercise your right not to accept by uninstalling and returning the software to the publisher/manufacturer. Should you click through the EULA, regardless of your ignorance of what it says, you just agreed to use the software binding to the terms set forth within the EULA.

And while it sounds like I am defending EULA's, I most certainly am not. They are the stupidest, most convoluted thing ever invented short of Congress. As your line of thought states, you plunk down $50 for a box with a CD in it, it's yours, and you should be able to do whatever the hell you want to with it (short of claim it as your own work and sell it for profit as such - copyright law is a different matter all together). But you're not plunking down $50 for the box and the CD, you're plunking down $50 for the right to use what's on that CD - the manufacturer is only providing the CD as a distribution medium as a courtesy to you.

It sucks, I know, get over it.

WoW Private servers are indeed illegal as the client EULA specifically spells out that it cannot be used outside of the scope that Blizzard defined in the EULA, which I believe specifically forbids use with any emulated server or 3rd party software.

Now if we could just get rid of EULA's.
 

doornail

Senior member
Oct 10, 1999
333
0
0
Originally posted by: SunnyD
Quite the contrary. When the DMCA came out, it essentially outlawed reverse engineering.

With respect, please go read up the DMCA. You have your facts very wrong. It outlawed circumvention of copy protection. It only covers copy protection. In fact, one of the exception clauses written into the DMCA permits reverse engineering for the goal of compatibility.

And as much as you wish (and I hate) EULA's were not laws or contracts, you are sorely mistaken. A EULA is a broadly worded binding contract that you have the option to excercise your right not to accept by uninstalling and returning the software to the publisher/manufacturer. Should you click through the EULA, regardless of your ignorance of what it says, you just agreed to use the software binding to the terms set forth within the EULA.

No. It is not a contact. Hence, they are not called End User Licencing Contracts. A contract must satisify a set of legal requirements (that varies by locale which is why I'm not going to try and list them here). The fact that the Agreement is presented after the point the sale and is non-negotiated prevent this.

But you're not plunking down $50 for the box and the CD, you're plunking down $50 for the right to use what's on that CD - the manufacturer is only providing the CD as a distribution medium as a courtesy to you.

Smoke and mirrors. Another fictional distinction used by corporations to confuse consumers about their rights. You own the CD. They own the copyright. Not much has changed since the days of the player piano. Them calling a "license" didn't create new standards of law.

It sucks, I know, get over it.

No thank you. I will continue to resist this errosion of consumer rights and misinformation fed to the public.
 

sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
Originally posted by: SunnyD
Originally posted by: doornail
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Would that fall under reverse engineering?

Gah, I hate that the general public has been brainwashed into thinking reverse engineering is bad or illegal. Reverse engineering is GOOD and LEGAL. It's the moral equivalent of building a go kart with a lawnmower engine. Research towards compatibility and alternative use.

Companies push abusive EULA's that attempt to get you to surrender rights you have as a consumer. Sometimes the courts agree with these, like the awful BNET ruling, and sometimes they don't but you cannot go to jail over it. It's a civil matter. EULA's are not laws or contracts. They are "wish lists' where you are forced to promise not to do stuff that you are allowed to do so -- just so you can install the &*#&$# software because now the shrinkwrap is broken and you can't return even if you want.

The way I see it, some folks plunk down $50 for a copy of WoW and now they have CD's. If they want to use them to prop up a table leg, or for a stencil, windchimes, or connect to a free, experimental server there's nothing wrong -- provided they are not transferring copyrighted materials, i.e. all the blizzard models, art, and sound files stay on the PC of the purchaser only.

Quite the contrary. When the DMCA came out, it essentially outlawed reverse engineering.

Now what you can do is claim fair use, that the packets were broadcast to your home and thus you can do whatever you like with them. However, that won't fly, since the packets were not broadcast, but specifically requested from the server by your client by you, thus binding your access to the EULA.

And as much as you wish (and I hate) EULA's were not laws or contracts, you are sorely mistaken. A EULA is a broadly worded binding contract that you have the option to excercise your right not to accept by uninstalling and returning the software to the publisher/manufacturer. Should you click through the EULA, regardless of your ignorance of what it says, you just agreed to use the software binding to the terms set forth within the EULA.

And while it sounds like I am defending EULA's, I most certainly am not. They are the stupidest, most convoluted thing ever invented short of Congress. As your line of thought states, you plunk down $50 for a box with a CD in it, it's yours, and you should be able to do whatever the hell you want to with it (short of claim it as your own work and sell it for profit as such - copyright law is a different matter all together). But you're not plunking down $50 for the box and the CD, you're plunking down $50 for the right to use what's on that CD - the manufacturer is only providing the CD as a distribution medium as a courtesy to you.

It sucks, I know, get over it.

WoW Private servers are indeed illegal as the client EULA specifically spells out that it cannot be used outside of the scope that Blizzard defined in the EULA, which I believe specifically forbids use with any emulated server or 3rd party software.

Now if we could just get rid of EULA's.

Man, you drink the koolaid.

Serioulsy, if you think reverse engineering is illegal can you explain why it is used all over the world including in the US as a valid business tactic? Why does trillian exist? Why did showEQ not get shutdown? Why does my job involve reverse engineering software to make a comptaible client? You can do anything you want to data on your computer. Its just that bytes on your computer. As long as you are not distrubuting copywrited material you are not breaking the law. You could violate your agreement with blizzard and they could refuse you access to their servers, but that is all they can do. That is also their right to do that. But you do have the right to write your own private server, you even have the right to reverse engineer the game and create your own client to the game. You even have the right to create cheat programs for the game. The only course of action they have is to discountinue service to you.
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
0
Blizzard's Terms of Use

B. Only Blizzard Entertainment or its licensees have the right to host World of Warcraft! Accordingly, you may not host, provide matchmaking services for, or intercept, emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Blizzard Entertainment as part of World of Warcraft, regardless of the method used to do so. Such prohibited methods may include, but are not limited to, protocol emulation, reverse engineering, modifying World of Warcraft, adding components to World of Warcraft, or using a utility program to host World of Warcraft.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
I suspect like anything they will try to enforce it an fail. There are hundreds of Ultima Online servers that are free. I am sure these free WoW servers will use the same tactic to remain open.

 

sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Blizzard's Terms of Use

B. Only Blizzard Entertainment or its licensees have the right to host World of Warcraft! Accordingly, you may not host, provide matchmaking services for, or intercept, emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Blizzard Entertainment as part of World of Warcraft, regardless of the method used to do so. Such prohibited methods may include, but are not limited to, protocol emulation, reverse engineering, modifying World of Warcraft, adding components to World of Warcraft, or using a utility program to host World of Warcraft.


Whats your point? That doesn't make it illegal. All it does is give them an out to no longer provide you with service. You can't go to jail, you can't be arrested, NOTHING can happen to you short of not being allowed on offical servers.
 

Atheus

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2005
7,313
2
0
Originally posted by: sourceninja
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Blizzard's Terms of Use

B. Only Blizzard Entertainment or its licensees have the right to host World of Warcraft! Accordingly, you may not host, provide matchmaking services for, or intercept, emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Blizzard Entertainment as part of World of Warcraft, regardless of the method used to do so. Such prohibited methods may include, but are not limited to, protocol emulation, reverse engineering, modifying World of Warcraft, adding components to World of Warcraft, or using a utility program to host World of Warcraft.


Whats your point? That doesn't make it illegal. All it does is give them an out to no longer provide you with service. You can't go to jail, you can't be arrested, NOTHING can happen to you short of not being allowed on offical servers.

Can they revolk your licence to use the client software though? If so do they have to refund the purchase price? It would seem so since you have not breached 'contract' only 'agreement'...

It's like a car manufacturer forcing you buy their insurance. You have to get insurance from somewhere, but can they force you to buy _their_ particular insurance? Without a signed contract?

Originally posted by: SunnyD
Quite the contrary. When the DMCA came out, it essentially outlawed reverse engineering.

Yea but only in the US, there are all sorts of fun things you're not allowed to do in the US these days, just move over here

 
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