WoW Rogue Builds

[nageov3t]

I've been thinking about re-spec'ing to get improved sap, and I can't decide if I should keep my current build or respec. both builds are for PvE, but the improved sap build would make me more useful in groups. my current build is based around SS spamming and dual-wielding a mace/dagger.

My Current Build: - 34/17/0

Assassination Talents (17 points)

Improved Eviscerate - 3/3 points - Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 15%.

Malice - 5/5 points - Increases your critical strike chance by 5%.

Ruthlessness - 3/3 points - Gives your finishing moves a 60% chance to add a combo point to your target.

Relentless Strikes - 1/1 point - Your finishing moves have a 20% chance per combo point to restore 25 energy.

Lethality - 5/5 points - Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Ghostly Strike, or Hemorrhage abilities by 30%.

Combat Talents (34 points)

Improved Sinister Strike - 2/2 points - Reduces the Energy cost of your Sinister Strike ability by 5 Energy.

Lightning Reflexes - 5/5 points - Increases your Dodge chance by 5%.

Deflection - 5/5 points - Increases your Parry chance by 5%.

Precision - 5/5 points - Increases your chance to hit with melee weapons by 5%.

Riposte - 1/1 point - A strike that becomes active after parrying an opponent's attack. This attack deals 150% weapon damage and disarms the target for 6 seconds.

Dual Wield Specialization - 5/5 points - Increases the damage done by your offhand weapon by 50%.

Dagger Specialization - 4/5 points - Increases your chance to get a critical strike with Daggers by 4%.

Mace Specialization - 5/5 points - Gives you a 6% chance to stun your target for 3 seconds with a mace.

Blade Flurry - 1/1 point - Increases your attack speed by 20%. In addition, attacks strike an additional nearby opponent. Lasts 15 seconds.

Adrenaline Rush - 1/1 point - Increases your Energy regeneration rate by 100% for 15 seconds.

Subtlety Talents (0 points)

None

My Improved Sap Build: - 21/18/12

Assassination Talents (12 points)

Improved Eviscerate - 3/3 points - Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 15%.

Malice - 5/5 points - Increases your critical strike chance by 5%.

Ruthlessness - 3/3 points - Gives your finishing moves a 60% chance to add a combo point to your target.

Relentless Strikes - 1/1 point - Your finishing moves have a 20% chance per combo point to restore 25 energy.

Combat Talents (21 points)

Improved Sinister Strike - 2/2 points - Reduces the Energy cost of your Sinister Strike ability by 5 Energy.

Lightning Reflexes - 5/5 points - Increases your Dodge chance by 5%.

Deflection - 5/5 points - Increases your Parry chance by 5%.

Precision - 5/5 points - Increases your chance to hit with melee weapons by 5%.

Riposte - 1/1 point - A strike that becomes active after parrying an opponent's attack. This attack deals 150% weapon damage and disarms the target for 6 seconds.

Dual Wield Specialization - 2/5 points - Increases the damage done by your offhand weapon by 20%.

Blade Flurry - 1/1 point - Increases your attack speed by 20%. In addition, attacks strike an additional nearby opponent. Lasts 15 seconds.

Subtlety Talents (18 points)

Rapid Concealment - 5/5 points - Reduces the cooldown of your Stealth ability by 5 seconds.

Master of Deception - 5/5 points - Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while in Stealth mode.

Camouflage - 5/5 points - Increases your speed while stealthed by 15%.

Improved Sap - 3/3 points - Adds a 90% chance to return to stealth mode after using your Sap ability.

 

[Mellman]

reroll, too many rogues, at least on my server ><

In any case.... If grouped with a rogue I'd rather them have improved sap, I hate a failed sap that ends up with a dead rogue because he has 3 pissed off mobs on him, and thers no way a warrior can pull and hold the aggro off him

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Mellman
reroll, too many rogues

I have a priest alt, but hate playing it I love being a healbot, but at level 10, finding a good group is all but impossible, and if I wanted to solo and nuke mobs to death, I'd have rolled a mage.

I just gotta suck it up one of these days and go back to playing it. heh.

 

[Mellman]

I love my priest, 42 ud on Frostwolf, main is a 52 troll shammy, same server

At least tell me you are horde ><

 

[chowmein]

nerf rogue

/signed

 

[Concillian]

Personally, I feel if you are going to re-spec to get imp. sap for PvE grouping, you should also get Imp. Rupture, as against high defense elites Rupture > Eviscerate.

Rapid Concealment?

I went Initiative, but if you aren't using openers, reducing Evasion and other cooldowns by 1.5 minutes is not to be overlooked. I just don't see getting too much use from rapid concealment... unless you frequently dispatch mobs in less than 10 seconds... I average around 15 if I'm grinding, so the 10 second cooldown on stealth is a non-issue, but when you get it, that extra point from initiative rocks (Cheap shot, ss, gouge, wait 4 seconds for energy for 5 point eviscerate or rupture... all before the opponent has even touched me)

Personally I have the generic stunlock build on my rogue
1/1 Prep
2/2 Cheap Shot

3/3 Imp. Gouge
2/2 Imp. SS

1/1 Cold blood
besides the obvious ones (lethality, Imp Sap, Imp Rupture, Imp. Evisc, etc...)

 

[spunkz]

Originally posted by: Mellman
I love my priest, 42 ud on Frostwolf, main is a 52 troll shammy, same server

At least tell me you are horde ><

love my priest too, 49 undead sergeant on burning blade.

i've come to dislike rogues in general, though. i don't think they're overpowered at all, i actually enjoy fighting them. it's just when they crit people for 2000+ and then they think they're awesome at the game because they can stealth, ambush/vanish/ambush and win a 1v1. played to lvl60 with a paladin and rogues were the only ones who consistently caused a wipe, even in high level instance runs like scholo or 5man strath. they're so dependent on their stealth that they never learn how to avoid aggro.

now with my priest, if i see a patrol coming, i shield the rogue because i know he'll aggro them. and the worst part is THE ROGUE NEVER APOLOGIZES. they won't admit to causing a wipe EVER. so don't be like that. (end of rant)

 

[Concillian]

Originally posted by: spunkz

i've come to dislike rogues in general, though. i don't think they're overpowered at all, i actually enjoy fighting them. it's just when they crit people for 2000+ and then they think they're awesome at the game because they can stealth, ambush/vanish/ambush and win a 1v1. played to lvl60 with a paladin and rogues were the only ones who consistently caused a wipe, even in high level instance runs like scholo or 5man strath. they're so dependent on their stealth that they never learn how to avoid aggro.

Rogues are easy mode, rogues attract dumbasses... no doubt about that. But all rogues are not dumbasses, this is not the point of the thread.

The OP is asking about respecc'ing to a VERY GROUP FRIENDLY skill. This indicates to me that he is not a dumbass rogue. Can we leave the comments about clueless rogues out of this thread?

Seriously though, if a rogue CAUSES a wipe, he has to be REALLY REALLY bad. Or he has a really bad tank. You weren't actually trying to tank with your paladin were you?

 

[nageov3t]

only benefit I was seeing to rapid concealment was in ninja mining / herb gathering.

think I'm going to give my priest another try. I know she'll be awsome at higher levels, since I really do enjoy being a heal/resbot and, after playing a druid for years in EQ, have a pretty good understanding of hate management for healers, it's just getting to higher levels is a killer

 

[Concillian]

Originally posted by: loki8481
only benefit I was seeing to rapid concealment was in ninja mining / herb gathering.

think I'm going to give my priest another try. I know she'll be awsome at higher levels, since I really do enjoy being a heal/resbot and, after playing a druid for years in EQ, have a pretty good understanding of hate management for healers, it's just getting to higher levels is a killer

If you really want to level a priest fast, find a mage to duo with.

Find a couple even.

Holy crap my mage buddy and I can go through mobs SO quick with Improved Arcane Explosion coupled with me healing him. We can take down 6-8 mobs at a time, no problem. More time is spent walking to find more mobs than killing.

At level 10, pretty much any one other person to pair up with will make things go really fast, and you don't even have to heal much because duos kill things nice and quick at that level. Even if you are planning holy, as my priest is, I'd have gotten 5/5 spirit tap WAY earlier than I did. I vote for first 5 in spirit tap no matter what you plan on doing long term, as it makes things so much nicer when solo or duo when you aren't with a mage providing drinks.

Once you get to 20-25 range, when mages might have IAE, start spamming in LFG that you're looking for a mage that has IAE to level really fast with... you'll get some tells, I guarantee.

 

[spunkz]

Originally posted by: Concillian

Originally posted by: spunkz

i've come to dislike rogues in general, though. i don't think they're overpowered at all, i actually enjoy fighting them. it's just when they crit people for 2000+ and then they think they're awesome at the game because they can stealth, ambush/vanish/ambush and win a 1v1. played to lvl60 with a paladin and rogues were the only ones who consistently caused a wipe, even in high level instance runs like scholo or 5man strath. they're so dependent on their stealth that they never learn how to avoid aggro.

Rogues are easy mode, rogues attract dumbasses... no doubt about that. But all rogues are not dumbasses, this is not the point of the thread.

The OP is asking about respecc'ing to a VERY GROUP FRIENDLY skill. This indicates to me that he is not a dumbass rogue. Can we leave the comments about clueless rogues out of this thread?

Seriously though, if a rogue CAUSES a wipe, he has to be REALLY REALLY bad. Or he has a really bad tank. You weren't actually trying to tank with your paladin were you?

dude, i was at least making a constructive criticism, telling him what not to act like at lvl60. you're just giving me crap so you look smart, and that's hardly the point of this thread, is it?

rogues cause wipes because they often don't know when to just pull instead of sap, because in sapping, you run the risk of aggroing a second nearby group. i grouped with a majority of the 60 rogues on my server, and this was a PVE server pre-honorsystem, so they had pve builds and were not clueless either, just inexperienced compared to those of us who couldn't use vanish and stealth to avoid every bad situation.

and no, i don't tank with my paladin.

 

[kongs]

I agree with concillion, Most rogues don't really know what they are doing and I suppose rogues are more than most classes played by people on their 1st MMO. However, rogues who know what they are doing can be very nice to have.

 

[Concillian]

Originally posted by: spunkz
dude, i was at least making a constructive criticism, telling him what not to act like at lvl60. you're just giving me crap so you look smart, and that's hardly the point of this thread, is it?

Your criticism is not constructive to a rogue who thinks with a group mentality. He is respeccing to the very skill that has the most effect in avoiding the scenario you just outlined. Your comments were totally off-topic and so were Mellman's.

I was simply trying to head off future rogue bashing because when I posted, there had been SEVERAL rogue-bashing responses and ONE response to what the OP actually asked for (mine). Is that constructive? I think so... at least more so than telling the OP to do something that he's obviously ALREADY doing (be more conscious of group aggro than the average rogue) by even considering respeccing to Improved Sap.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

/

RPG's are not meant to be a number crunching challenge of who can make the most 1337 build. Make a "character" instead & let your personality shine through. I always enjoyed making unique characters, albeit they couldn't solo anything, but people liked having me around anyways when they were on because I always played the joker role.

/end rant

 

[spunkz]

Originally posted by: Concillian

Originally posted by: spunkz
dude, i was at least making a constructive criticism, telling him what not to act like at lvl60. you're just giving me crap so you look smart, and that's hardly the point of this thread, is it?

Your criticism is not constructive to a rogue who thinks with a group mentality. He is respeccing to the very skill that has the most effect in avoiding the scenario you just outlined. Your comments were totally off-topic and so were Mellman's.

I was simply trying to head off future rogue bashing because when I posted, there had been SEVERAL rogue-bashing responses and ONE response to what the OP actually asked for (mine). Is that constructive? I think so... at least more so than telling the OP to do something that he's obviously ALREADY doing (be more conscious of group aggro than the average rogue) by even considering respeccing to Improved Sap.

ok fine u win. i just couldn't let a rogue thread go by without a good rogue-bashing

when rogues start fessin' up to their mistakes, i'll say something nice, but until then...

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: spunkz

Originally posted by: Concillian

Originally posted by: spunkz
dude, i was at least making a constructive criticism, telling him what not to act like at lvl60. you're just giving me crap so you look smart, and that's hardly the point of this thread, is it?

Your criticism is not constructive to a rogue who thinks with a group mentality. He is respeccing to the very skill that has the most effect in avoiding the scenario you just outlined. Your comments were totally off-topic and so were Mellman's.

I was simply trying to head off future rogue bashing because when I posted, there had been SEVERAL rogue-bashing responses and ONE response to what the OP actually asked for (mine). Is that constructive? I think so... at least more so than telling the OP to do something that he's obviously ALREADY doing (be more conscious of group aggro than the average rogue) by even considering respeccing to Improved Sap.

ok fine u win. i just couldn't let a rogue thread go by without a good rogue-bashing

when rogues start fessin' up to their mistakes, i'll say something nice, but until then...

Ah spunkz has spoken. He's the WoW God so everyone get to confession now. Be sure to confess all your stupidity and mistakes so we can be forgiven.

Geez, what a pompous, arrogant @ss.

Now back on topic:
Since you've dropped adrenaline rush out of combat you might want to chip a few more points away from that tree. See if you can reach Coldblood in the assasination tree. It's one of the best rogue skills available. Also if you can reach improved cheapshot in the subtlety tree to reduce the energy requirements of your (likely) primary opener it will offset the lost adrenaline rush to some degree. Putting your 5 camouflage points elsewhere to meet your point requirement might be wise. Moving slow when stealthed just isn't that big of a deal in the whole scheme of things. Rapid concealment is only really nice in PvP (non-duel) situations, but master of deception rocks.

I'm running an assasination rogue, but when I hit 60 (two more levels) I'm going to retool to pickup improved sap as well. It's a drag having to choose between a strong opening move OR sap. I want my cake and eat it too.

 

[EvanB]

The best rogue build, by far, at the moment, is the 21/8/22 build. Coldblood, imp backstab and preperation/imp sap. Prep in particular is very very powerul. Resetting your cooldowns can have a very large effect on a fight.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: EvanB
The best rogue build, by far, at the moment, is the 21/8/22 build. Coldblood, imp backstab and preperation/imp sap. Prep in particular is very very powerul. Resetting your cooldowns can have a very large effect on a fight.

is that for PvP or PvE? in PvE, I've never found much advantage to ambush/backstab over cs/ss in terms of the energy cost : damage ratio.

 

[Concillian]

damage ratios are fairly similar between a seal fate dagger build and the stereotypical stunlock build. Without seal fate, I would assume the dagger build loses out a bit on the damage end. Though with CS/SS you lose out a bit if you aren't using Improved CS as your build indicates you are thinking.

Both are equally viable in group PvE, with the BS build being tougher in soloing (because positioning for a back shot is not as easy, and takes tons of energy since you have to gouge first.). Presumably in group PvE you have someone holding a mob so finding an exposed back isn't an issue.

I prefer the versatility of the CS/SS build because finishers come more often, allowing for better selection of finishers (rupture vs. eviscerate vs. kidney punch). Generally I will CS, SS, and Rupture right away. This allows decent damage to the mob right off the bat and puts a DoT on there to help dealy the total damage amount for aggro control. Then I'll start building up CPs for an eviscerate or kidney punch while the mob is running away (if it's a runner). This focuses more on 'backend' damage than what most people typically do, but I think that's more helpful to the group as a whole. Front end damage is dangerous in terms of pulling aggro off the tank, and also doesn't help as much with runners.

My build isn't far off of 21/8/22, with 24/6/21 ... Improved CS and Improved Rupture instead of Imp. backstab and Imp Ambush.

Prodigy is partially correct in his philosophy though, it's pretty tough to make a bad build. As spunkz was quick to point out, attitude is the most important factor. Nobody else is going to know your build unless you tell them, so just pick something and go for it. If you're not 'the most efficient' nobody will really notice.

 

[EvanB]

With the recent buffs to dagger based attacks, daggers are pretty much superior to swords in pvp and pve. I have a krol blade and use daggers over it. Get Barman Shanker from brd and spec 21/8/22 and you will be good to go If you spec imp ambush you will consistantly see 1300-1500 dmg ambushes.

 

[Velk]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: EvanB
The best rogue build, by far, at the moment, is the 21/8/22 build. Coldblood, imp backstab and preperation/imp sap. Prep in particular is very very powerul. Resetting your cooldowns can have a very large effect on a fight.

is that for PvP or PvE? in PvE, I've never found much advantage to ambush/backstab over cs/ss in terms of the energy cost : damage ratio.

You need to get all of the related talents to get a solid dagger build. Backstab specialisation adds 30% chance to crit to backstabs leaving backstab crit rate in the 50-60 range depending on gear - opportunity pumps the base backstab damage and lethality pumps the crit damage and the final touch is seal fate which gives an additional combat point on crits. Improved ambush adds 45% crit chance, so you are looking at 65-75% there.

On the other side, sinister strike has no equivalent to opportunity or backstab spec ( ss spec just decreases cost by 5 energy ) and it gains far less bonus from lethality or seal fate due to the much lower crit spec.

This, of course, assumes you have someone to tank - if you don't, gouging and circling to backstab lowers dps, however this is not as bad as it seems, as it also lowers mob dps to zero during the time they are gouged, plus gouge also grants combo points.

In any case - for the original question - improved sap is useful but is limited in application. It is not 100%, and if a fight is hard enough that you *need* to use improved sap, starting it by failing will be disastrous. Using it when you don't strictly need to can make life easier in a few places, but you can most certainly live without it.

 

[rstove02]

Can someone post what the 21/8/22 build is....or a link to a site that lists what is in this build?

Thank you.

 

[Lanik]

I use a UI mod called Stance Sets that allows you to setup your default weapons loadout for stealthed/non-stealthed. Essentially, everytime I go into stealth my dagger goes to my main hand so I am ready to ambush/backstab. Then, when I become unstealthed, I have my mace in hand ready to fight the mob face-to-face. You can also quickly made a bindable macro that lefts you flip through your stance sets. So, if during the a party member gets agro I can quickly switch back to dagger and start backstabbing. I highly recommend this mod to rogues that would like to switch between dagger to something else during a fight.

 

[exilera]

Rapid concealment is good for PvP.

I assume you're playing on an easy server (non pvp). For PvP, the combat tree sucks.