wowowow Surface Pro review

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Ravynmagi

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2007
3,102
24
81
Well that may be the way you look at it, but if you are looking at 900+ for an Intel i5/i7 Ultrabook hybrid tablet, it's a pretty damn good price.
Yes, Ultrabooks are, on their own, a little overpriced in that you can get more performance for less if you sacrifice portability (thicker/bulkier/heavier laptops come to mind, like desktop-replacement class beasts - or even the cheapies).

Yeah, I meant I think the hardware probably is worth the price. But I also balked at the price of Ultrabooks, like I am this Surface Pro tablet. It would be nice to have a powerfull Ivy Bridge machine with 4GB of RAM in such a thin and small package. But ugh, $900+ just more money than I personally want to part with for something like this.



You look at it the wrong way - you shouldn't be comparing a 2 or 3lb x86 machine to a 1lb tablet - you should be comparing them to the 5, 6lb x86 portables of yesteryear.

The weight will be no issue for people that treat these as Ultrabooks and just plop them down on a desktop. The reason I'm concerned about the 2 pounds is because I want to use this tablet as a... tablet.


Atom tablet probably fits my desires better. Though I might need to wait for Bay Trail before the performance and screen resolution gets to a satisfactory level.
 

KentState

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2001
8,397
393
126
I wonder if one can run VMware on this?

Depends on what you mean. If you are talking vSphere, then the hardware is probably not 100% compatible. Now Workstation or Player should be fine, but you are limited in storage.
 

jm0ris0n

Golden Member
Sep 15, 2000
1,407
0
76
FYI ... just went by the MSFT Store here in San Antonio today ... they were just setting up their surface pro display units ... I must say the pressure sensitive pen was a lot of fun. If I can get this to use RemoteApps over VPN to fully utilize the pen when reviewing word docs (Imagine ... actually have pen input on a design doc I'm reviewing ... wahoo!) then I'm completely sold.

Oh, and as for the mysterious i5 inside ... according to windows its an i5 3317u. As some have already said ... I put the machine through its paces and all was still buttery smooth.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
FYI ... just went by the MSFT Store here in San Antonio today ... they were just setting up their surface pro display units ... I must say the pressure sensitive pen was a lot of fun. If I can get this to use RemoteApps over VPN to fully utilize the pen when reviewing word docs (Imagine ... actually have pen input on a design doc I'm reviewing ... wahoo!) then I'm completely sold.

Oh, and as for the mysterious i5 inside ... according to windows its an i5 3317u. As some have already said ... I put the machine through its paces and all was still buttery smooth.

How was the pen's responsiveness?
Did the input lag behind the actual pen? Did it seem to really allow for fluid hand-writing and/or precision drawing?
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
The review verdict should be: Wait for Haswell.

Which is? Fall 2013?

Ugh.

Personally, I just don't understand why there haven't been ANY tablets in the style of the Surface Pro, but dockable with a full keyboard and strong hinge (like upcoming models).

Especially when combined with the approach of throwing an additional battery in the keyboard dock, and getting even more life. I'd accept the sacrifice of a slightly thicker overall product. I just want an x86 Win8 tablet, dammit, and don't want to wait another 6 months. We don't need to wait for the next CPU revision. We'll always be waiting for the next revision if it's simply in the name of keeping up with the ARMs. Honestly, Haswell may match/close-in on ARM SOCs of today, but does anyone expect Intel to fully match/keep up?
The performance differential is what is most important and I'll suffer less battery. I think it takes some serious screw up to push out a device with less than 4 hours average... but I wouldn't be expecting 10 unless it basically has two batteries (like the now-delayed Lenovo Helix).

There are a few coming out sometime between now and 2014 (some haven't really specified when, some claim Spring, one claimed February but has already been delayed, and one doesn't even go beyond the "coming soon" approach), but why has it even taken this long? Yes, there is a decent product development cycle that must be addressed, but Windows 8 is hardly new, and the current i5/i7 CPUs aren't exactly new either, or were known to be in the pipeline. The raw technology to make a convertible and/or dockable ultrabook/tablet was readily available, it just needed to be designed in an all-inclusive package.

I mean, even without my dream of "the one" device that also includes a stand-out digitizer (Wacom or not), there just haven't been any in truth.

I may just end up getting the Surface Pro just because I'm already tired of waiting, and tired of my old Acer laptop that was about $500 back in 2006/2007.


Just curious: is there some technical impossibility of Microsoft releasing a sturdier keyboard accessory, as in one that can provide a hinge that supports the Surface without the kickstand?

I do have a feeling they couldn't technically wire in an additional battery through such means, not without additional connectors/wires going in other directions (or can the mag connector for the keyboard supply/draw power too?).
I see no reason they couldn't actually produce such an accessory. It just comes down to mating a dock-style seating area, and creating a strong self-supporting hinge - both of which are not unheard of in this tech world.

And I'm wondering if, having used certain battery tests, that the Surface Pro would benefit from either some patching or some minor tweaking? Perhaps a power-saving feature isn't functioning as intended? Perhaps some additional speed-step usage could be forced? (hell, can we even get into the BIOS? And, for that matter, can we, the user, replace the SSD?)

I fully expect to have a new device come out in late 2013 or early 2014 that blows my mind, and if I get the Surface Pro, I'd just be left hoping I can resell it with only a minor penalty.
 
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aceO07

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2000
4,491
0
76
I had thought there would be a more expensive 8GB version (w/ 128GB SSD), however it seems like the articles I read much earlier were wrong.

Without 8GB RAM, it takes this out of the running as my laptop replacement. 4GB is too small for using VMware and other applications I want to run.
 

N4g4rok

Senior member
Sep 21, 2011
285
0
0
Without 8GB RAM, it takes this out of the running as my laptop replacement. 4GB is too small for using VMware and other applications I want to run

I would be worried about the SSD storage running low first. The nice part is, if you run low on RAM, swap memory would still be responsive when using VMware on it.
 

finbarqs

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2005
3,617
2
81
*sigh* microsoft just doesn't get it... Now we'll see if Post Steve Jobs will do the right move, and make something the right way...

wait scratch that: they'll make it crippled first: and then by it's 3rd or 4th iteration make it the best. But at least they'll get the bare essentials down: good battery life, good aspect ratio, good screen, and generally less bugs than microsoft's iteration...

at least it has blue tooth so you can use your favorite blue tooth input devices!
 
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MrX8503

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2005
4,529
0
0
Which is? Fall 2013?

Ugh.

Personally, I just don't understand why there haven't been ANY tablets in the style of the Surface Pro, but dockable with a full keyboard and strong hinge (like upcoming models).

Because such a device without compromises is kind of a myth with current tech.
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,739
452
126
Which is? Fall 2013?

Ugh.

Personally, I just don't understand why there haven't been ANY tablets in the style of the Surface Pro, but dockable with a full keyboard and strong hinge (like upcoming models).

What do you mean, "in the style of"? The Ativ Pro has a keyboard dock for clamshell style laptop feel. Unfortunately the keyboard dock doesn't have a battery in it, which is definitely a big misstep by Samsung but still one of the better convertible tablets.
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,220
606
126
Looking at the pic, I think 10"+ tablets may be better off with 4:3. Or at least 16:10. 16:9 makes it really narrow in portrait and in landscape it looks like a picture frame.

What's the aspect ratio of Kindle Fire HD 9"?
 

s44

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 2006
9,427
16
81
Personally, I just don't understand why there haven't been ANY tablets in the style of the Surface Pro, but dockable with a full keyboard and strong hinge (like upcoming models).
Transformer Book?
 

Puddle Jumper

Platinum Member
Nov 4, 2009
2,835
1
0
The review verdict should be: Wait for Haswell.

That's one way to look at it although based on Anand's review it seems like Haswell will eliminate any reason to purchase a 10" ARM Tablet regardless of the OS it's running. Realistically there is no way ARM will make any significant progress in closing the performance gap between them and Intel and haswell will neutralize nearly all of ARMs advantages over Ivy Bridge.

If I didn't have a good laptop I would be ordering a 128gb Surface Pro on launch day. I normally don't like 10" tablets but this is the only one with the performance and capability to make it worthwhile. I think the price is prefectly reasonable as well aside from the keyboards, any decent laptop will run you close to $1k if not more and this is also a decent tablet too.

If Microsoft can fit Haswell in a Surface RT sized chassis with similar battery life to the current Pro model I'll pre order it the moment it is announced.
 

Imaginer

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
8,076
1
0
I am lookng forward of trying one myself. Hopefully, they will allow me to put in some art programs to see and verify for myself adaquete pressure sensitivity and tilt.

Because if this works like I hope for it to, it is a compromise and inclusive of capabilities of an ultrabook coupled with a digitizer tablet but there is no disconnect of drawing on something that doesn't display what you work with. And it is at a VERY reasonable price for what is a ultrabook powered tablet that is one device instead of two. And don't get me started with the smaller Cintiq that has been available but it is just a second pen monitor you attach to a computer.

And because it is x64 x86, my gauntlet of creative software works with it.
 

s44

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 2006
9,427
16
81
Realistically there is no way ARM will make any significant progress in closing the performance gap between them and Intel and haswell will neutralize nearly all of ARMs advantages over Ivy Bridge.
Nope. Haswell still won't hit the single-digit TDP needed for fanless/battery life purposes.

Not to mention that the $400 price difference you see here will likely persist.
 

Puddle Jumper

Platinum Member
Nov 4, 2009
2,835
1
0
Nope. Haswell still won't hit the single-digit TDP needed for fanless/battery life purposes.

Not to mention that the $400 price difference you see here will likely persist.

Haswell will have 10W TDP models which isn't that much higher than the ~7w TDP of Exynos 5250 and completely excusable considering the performance difference. Even if it isn't quite as low power as ARM that should be good enough to get it into a acceptable form factor.

The price difference isn't a concern for me, I spent $1200 on my current laptop and would have no problem spending that for a quality x86 tablet.
 
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