wowowow Surface Pro review

[Nebor]

They're back to out of stock on the Microsoft Store webpage. They were available last night, but I was looking at it in bed and figured I'd order in the morning. Out of stock again by 6am. Seems like it's going to be a month before I can get one...

 

[destrekor]

:awe:

Just got the email - Best Buy has my 128GB. Will be going to pick it up in a few moments.

They're back to out of stock on the Microsoft Store webpage. They were available last night, but I was looking at it in bed and figured I'd order in the morning. Out of stock again by 6am. Seems like it's going to be a month before I can get one...

If you don't mind dealing with Best Buy, walk into your nearest store and ask to reserve one. Supposedly, they are only allowing reservations for units they know will be arriving sometime next week - so it seems like there will be week-to-week reservation limits until they can simply begin stocking them without requiring reservations (when supply finally meets demand).

[edit: I was just looking at bestbuy's in-store stock for the NW Ohio region - quite a few list units in stock. Your local store might just be getting in some today as well. It would appear our area stores got enough to satisfy their reservations and more still to put on the shelves. Hopefully they have enough accessories.]


There was a good article that provides a reasonable explanation as to why this is happening (it's not official, but it makes sense).

They supposedly started manufacturing the Pro's mid-January. That's when they started rolling them off the line... in China.
Launch was February 9th. They probably should have delayed the launch date, but they were afraid of that after already having done so a few times.

The article went on to suggest they used a freighter (boat) for the main inventory, but likely did air-freight a fair amount so they could distribute at least some to their stores and retail partners. Which explains why Best Buy had so little on hand at first, because Microsoft was probably just beginning to get hands on the main shipment from China. And then they were probably staging another large inventory to freight by boat, probably having a week's worth of product on it.
Those boats take typically two weeks (give or take a few days), so they were on a time crunch like no other - and I doubt they used air to ship hundreds of thousands of units. Maybe tens of thousands, at considerable expense, just to have some product on the streets in time. Which is mighty nice of them at least, that air freight probably took a fair chunk out of their margins on the 64GB model.
Which was the model they most likely produced the most of at first - for whatever backward strategy they cooked up. It's a good storage size for regular tablets, but not for a modern x86 OS. If they continue to produce the 64GB model at all, it's probably going to get the back burner to the 128GB units - maybe produce 1x 64GB unit for every 5x 128GB units.


I just hope Microsoft gets this battery-keyboard "dock" out sooner rather than later. If they make it anything like the upcoming Thinkpad Helix's keyboard dock (with second battery), that dock's hinge actually adds another inch or two to the physical height/width of the tablet (bottom to top when staring at screen). By doing so, it enables the keyboard to actually stretch out a little bit, get a little more roomy. Thus, the keyboard can be a little less cramped, and it can be given a decently-sized trackpad.
So not only would they have the opportunity to double the battery life of the Surface Pro (cramming another 42Wh battery underneath an inflexible keyboard wouldn't require much space at all), they could also give it an even friendlier keyboard and trackpad.

If they price that right (in reality, it probably doesn't even matter what they price it, within reason), it'll sell like hotcakes. I'd hope it would be no more than, say, $150.... I'd kick, moan and scream the whole way, but I might, just might, even pay $200 if it was well designed, solid, fairly light, and worked magnificently.

For the hinge to support the "screen", I'm curious if there is a minimum weight for the keyboard dock itself to prevent it from just tipping over. I'd hope they could make such a dock that would allow it to remain "propped up" without requiring the kickstand - thus, allowing it to enter new territory: the world of a small true laptop (one that can be used on your lap!).

I'm fine with the trade-offs for now, but what helped sell me on the Pro was the fact that the engineering team specifically made mention of such possibilities thanks to the inclusion of additional contacts on the accessory spine near the keyboard pogo contacts, capable of "additional current."

 

[jm0ris0n]

Finally picked my 128GB up today at Best Buy !!!

So ... its official, the physical Microsoft Store in San Antonio is horrible. Had a preorder for 128GB Feb 4th, and as of this 9.45am this morning when I went to check on the PreOrder, they still had Nada ... disappointed I went to a Best Buy across from the MSFT store, put down $50 for the pre-order, and received an email 90 minutes later stating my pre-order was READY to be picked up !

At $1,300 W/Tax for the 128GB Pro, Type Cover, and 2 Year MSFT Warranty (99 right now), this isn't a cheap system by any means, however when compared to the price of a laptop 5, 10, 15 years ago its not bad (not to mention there isn't much out there like this).

Will update as I play with it more, but the dream of reviewing Offshore design Docs with an inking pressure sensitive pen will finally come true. The pen is fairly accurate, and I can easily see this replacing a notebook, and acting as a nice alternative to white board markers when drawing system diagrams in design meetings via HDMI Out (a la, I bought this for Work + Play ... not Play with a bit of work -To me this is what an iPad is).

Best of luck to all you 128GB surface pro searchers, the payoff is very great indeed !

 

[Canbacon]

I'm so jealous of you guys.

On other news, one of the Surface engineers confirmed that they are working on fixing/supporting Adobe products via supporting WinTab or Adobe to fully support MS' Pen API.

https://twitter.com/sbathiche/status/301423449505689600

 

[Nebor]

I managed to get a Surface Pro 128gb w/ a type cover, wedge mouse, office 365 and extended warranty when Microsoft's site opened back up this afternoon. I see that a couple of best buys are showing in stock now too, but I don't really have the time to drive an hour away to get one. Plus they don't show to have the type covers in stock.

 

[finbarqs]

welp, I just ordered one right now from Best Buy in Yorba Linda, CA (close to disneyland). They have them in stock (128GB) and I didn't even try looking very hard lol.

 

[finbarqs]

and it's the last one lol

 

[XZeroII]

Got my 128 yesterday. It's awesome so far. The battery life is less than my RT but at least I can run anything now.

 

[Ns1]

Oh my god this is exactly why I want one

Will update as I play with it more, but the dream of reviewing Offshore design Docs with an inking pressure sensitive pen will finally come true. The pen is fairly accurate, and I can easily see this replacing a notebook, and acting as a nice alternative to white board markers when drawing system diagrams in design meetings via HDMI Out (a la, I bought this for Work + Play ... not Play with a bit of work -To me this is what an iPad is).

 

[destrekor]

So - I love this thing (the Surface Pro).

However - so far I have only been annoyed with the Type Cover. That's because it's not typing... it's covering, at least it's got that part down.

I drove to a different Best Buy to pick up a Type Cover (the closest one didn't have them in stock) after paying for it when I picked up the Pro.
I got the cover out of its packaging, connected to the Surface, and it seemed to do what it was supposed to do. I proceeded to flip it around, rip it and reconnect, connect it backwards to see how much was involved in that (so keys faced in when flipped around if holding as a tablet with cover connected, not facing out toward hands).

At some point, it decided it didn't want to play along anymore. I have since not been able to do anything about it - including doing a Recovery (but not a total clean-slate from recovery image - this was the lesser approach).

Does it sound like something only a completely reset with the recovery image could tackle?

FWIW - not even the Trackpad Settings app (from the Store) will see the type cover - so right now the Surface seems to not even recognize it's connected.

I'll probably be on the phone with Microsoft tomorrow. I'm giving up for now.


Otherwise - even keyboardless, I have been in love with this thing.
It's exactly what I picture for a true tablet. My 7" Android tablet (Nexus 7) does the job for what it's for, but I feel a larger tablet should be more capable if I am paying upwards of $500 for such.


Now, I knew this going in, and accepted it as a sacrifice for now - but this kind of device is begging for 16:10, not 16:9. 4:3 is too ridiculous, but 16:10 would be great. Holding 16:9 in portrait is kind of comical. But in some instances, pretty damn awesome with the right apps.

 

[Pia]

At some point, it decided it didn't want to play along anymore. I have since not been able to do anything about it - including doing a Recovery (but not a total clean-slate from recovery image - this was the lesser approach).

Does it sound like something only a completely reset with the recovery image could tackle?

You got any reason to believe it's a software issue? Sounds much more like broken hardware to me. Hopefully just the cover.

 

[Canbacon]

I wonder during that process maybe the ribbon cable tore (assuming that they use a ribbon cable). I guess the next step is to see if a different touch or type cover works?

Also, pictures and benchmarks

 

[finbarqs]

this thing does get tiring after a while of holding it... The Bluestacks thing is a joke... The keyboard doesn't even come up when you try to search for something! it's weird. But anyways, maybe I just didn't read up enough about it. Another thing: the bluestacks is slow as hell...

One note is cool, but can you do ink to text in word 2013?

battery life has been "ok" so far. But i knew that...

 

[Drsignguy]

I picked up the "surface" 64 and decided to not purchase the touch/type pads. Once you get use to how it all works, its pretty easy. You just have to get used to it. Also if you go into the win 8 app side of things, you can find the keypad in there and use that. It's keypad has a windows key on it and can be pretty handy, once you get used to it. So far, this thing is really cool, smooth and getting easier to navigate around.

 

[Canbacon]

One note is cool, but can you do ink to text in word 2013?

I'm pretty sure ink to text is a global thing through the pen input window. I have a link at work about a person doing a hand writing input tutorial for Surface Pro. I'll edit this post when I get in.

edit:
It looks like the person only did Metro Email and One Note.
http://pocketnow.com/2013/02/15/surface-pro-handwriting

Maybe some other users can chime in.

 

[destrekor]

You got any reason to believe it's a software issue? Sounds much more like broken hardware to me. Hopefully just the cover.

No reason, other than hoping. Type covers are apparently next to impossible to come by (just like the Surface), so I fear it being a hardware issue (either the cover or the surface itself!) because I'll have to wait instead of getting immediate attention. Which, after waiting a week already, is not ideal.

I think the store I bought the Type Cover from is now out of stock, and even then that was a waste of gas to get to that store compared to a store much closer. There is no Microsoft store within a reasonable distance (over 2 hour drive, one way, is the closest).
So, most likely, I'll have to wait until they can ship one to me.

I figured it would be software since it worked temporarily, then stopped working. Knowing Windows and drivers and whatnot (there is firmware for these things too?!), I suspect software issue more often than hardware issue for almost everything, and it's usually the correct assumption.
Drivers install got bugged, drivers are missing now, something else...

but ultimately I imagine you are right. I've been trying to convince myself that it has to be software and only software, but it is more than likely a hardware issue. Hopefully it's just the keyboard at worst, and not the "accessory spine" on the Surface.

 

[destrekor]

and now it works - just like that.


See - this is one reason why, no matter what Microsoft does, I'll always dislike Windows (and probably any full OS - I think I've had Linux behave similarly)... sometimes, these things just quit playing by the rules, by their code - and just do whatever the hell they want to do. And then, with some time alone in the corner, they get their act together and start listening to instructions again.

Wait... that sounds familiar. These things aren't playing us, are they? Are they intelligent, just biding their time instead of telling us how intelligent they are?


Anyway - I just turned on my Surface for the first time this morning, after giving up on it last night. I think it had been put into Sleep mode (part of what I tested last night was how it would do just that, and what the battery would look like this morning)... and well, left the non-functional cover attached. Open it up, turn it on/wake it up, greeted by login screen but not given the touchscreen keyboard for my PIN... hmm. Try the keyboard, bam it works.

Now... I think I need to try and figure out if I can even replicate last night's experience. It would be handy to know if this was just the strangest OS fluke ever experienced, or if this can be determined as the result of a certain specific string of events. If it's the latter, not only would I like to share it, I'd like to know it by heart so I can avoid ever doing it again - because getting it to work again appears to be a challenge in of itself and I wouldn't it to stop functioning at a time I need it most. That's a moment where things suddenly find themselves airborne.

 

[Canbacon]

and now it works - just like that.


See - this is one reason why, no matter what Microsoft does, I'll always dislike Windows (and probably any full OS - I think I've had Linux behave similarly)... sometimes, these things just quit playing by the rules, by their code - and just do whatever the hell they want to do. And then, with some time alone in the corner, they get their act together and start listening to instructions again.

Wait... that sounds familiar. These things aren't playing us, are they? Are they intelligent, just biding their time instead of telling us how intelligent they are?


Anyway - I just turned on my Surface for the first time this morning, after giving up on it last night. I think it had been put into Sleep mode (part of what I tested last night was how it would do just that, and what the battery would look like this morning)... and well, left the non-functional cover attached. Open it up, turn it on/wake it up, greeted by login screen but not given the touchscreen keyboard for my PIN... hmm. Try the keyboard, bam it works.

Now... I think I need to try and figure out if I can even replicate last night's experience. It would be handy to know if this was just the strangest OS fluke ever experienced, or if this can be determined as the result of a certain specific string of events. If it's the latter, not only would I like to share it, I'd like to know it by heart so I can avoid ever doing it again - because getting it to work again appears to be a challenge in of itself and I wouldn't it to stop functioning at a time I need it most. That's a moment where things suddenly find themselves airborne.

I know these links are reddit links, but it looks like they had the same issues as you were/are having.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/18kgur/is_anyone_having_issues_with_the_type_touch_cover/
http://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/18lfl5/for_anyone_having_a_keyboard_docking_problem/

 

[KitsuneStudios]

Out of curiosity, has anyone tried to use the Wacom Tablet PC drivers on the Surface?

http://www.wacom.com/en/support/drivers

I had to downgrade to the 7.0.9-5 driver on my Samsung ATIV Smart PC 700T, because of an incompatibility with Flash Professional CS6, but it has full pressure sensitivity in all apps now.

 

[Canbacon]

Out of curiosity, has anyone tried to use the Wacom Tablet PC drivers on the Surface?

http://www.wacom.com/en/support/drivers

I had to downgrade to the 7.0.9-5 driver on my Samsung ATIV Smart PC 700T, because of an incompatibility with Flash Professional CS6, but it has full pressure sensitivity in all apps now.

http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/microsoft/55348-cant-install-wacom-tablet-pc-drivers-7.html

From the looks of this thread, the Wacom drivers are not compatible with the chip that the Surface Pro uses.

 

[destrekor]

Out of curiosity, has anyone tried to use the Wacom Tablet PC drivers on the Surface?

http://www.wacom.com/en/support/drivers

I had to downgrade to the 7.0.9-5 driver on my Samsung ATIV Smart PC 700T, because of an incompatibility with Flash Professional CS6, but it has full pressure sensitivity in all apps now.

I remember seeing a lot of people talking about Wacom and the Surface. IIRC, many had tried to use the standard Wacom drivers, but without any success.

Microsoft created a new API for the pen and uses that, and so only apps that support said new API will actually register pressure and presumably the eraser.

After a lot of complaints and stuff (since Photoshop does not support this API - Adobe basically said "Eff off - Microsoft can fix this themselves, they know what to do and who to talk to"), it sounds like Microsoft is reaching out to Wacom and they are working on something.
Presumably, they will be bringing the wintab driver to the Surface and other work to make it more universal.

 

[KitsuneStudios]

http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/microsoft/55348-cant-install-wacom-tablet-pc-drivers-7.html

From the looks of this thread, the Wacom drivers are not compatible with the chip that the Surface Pro uses.

Ah I missed that. Seems like the Samsung was the right choice after all. Thanks!

 

[finbarqs]

I can't get my exchange to connect, because I don't use SSL

 

[destrekor]

Ah I missed that. Seems like the Samsung was the right choice after all. Thanks!

Being that they are new chips/sensors from Wacom, and the fact that Microsoft is likely making the new API (as opposed to WinTab) the set standard at this point, it's quite likely any issues at this time will be resolved and we'll see 100% compatibility with both old and new applications for all features those programs would have otherwise supported.

 

[Canbacon]

Looks like Canada is starting to get some stock (or at least Vancouver). I just got my call today that they are getting their shipment tomorrow and I am no1 in line. Happy days!