WTF Apple?

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Mar 11, 2004
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From a corporate environment , i greatly appreciated the switch to IOS devices and the total ban of all android devices on our intune mdm . I was a huge android user before that and was plenty apprehensive about having to support them, turns out it was the biggest positive change i've seen in a long time, the shit just works for what we needed it to do, and i'm talking about having to support truck drivers that absolutely hated technology but with the ipads/phones it was simple and quick to fix, not perfect mind you but way easier than having to support Android tablets/phones.

/i did eventually buy an iphone/macbook air
//probably shouldn't have bought the macbook but it works well

I was going to make the switch, but I'm waffling now as I simply don't use my phone for that much, I don't chat with enough people to make iMessage a big deal, and the uses the iPhone is lacking for those uses (Firefox being more than a Safari skin, supporting AptX/LDAC/lossless Bluetooth other than Apple's own which requires Apple's own headphones at the moment). I want to get a Vision Pro as I think it might be able to offer what I want out of such a headset (namely ease of use, high resolution in a headset that isn't ginormous), but there's aspects about it that I find very lacking and leave me worried it will end up frustrating, or I'll have to spend far too much to find work arounds (see audiophiles buying camera kit and then searching for cables that let them get simple DAC functionality), on top of the already fairly steep price (but since it feasibly might replace multiple montors and/or projector for content consumption). I'm currently moving my Mom over to Apple though. Ease of use, good auto-quality of camera, interoperability (across devices), long term support (big one being able to keep her on the same device longer), and just simply superior base (tablets and watches) is enough.

Microsoft wants to cram shitty AI into everything instead of making the cool stuff they have the ability to (HoloLens, Windows Mixed Reality headsets, Courier, etc). Google can't figure anything out and is probably gonna end up cutting half the shit they're doing now once their tax bills and penalties for their search shenanigans comes due.

Apple was so close to having an easy win (basically a Sony at E3 moment), but they're bungling it with missteps.

the fact that any new MBP is coming with 8gb of RAM is insanity

my MBP is 10 years old and has double that amount

Sounds like a poor person problem. I'm kidding, I do think it should have 16GB in any of their computers (8GB in phones and 12GB in tablets would be ok) by now. But its less of an issue when you've got memory and storage bandwidth like the modern Apple stuff does. More would still be better though, and it'd help the longevity of these devices for sure.

That was a bug that was terrible and they fixed it. It's not purposely trying to rip people off and put them in a walled garden.

Everybody has bugs out design flaws that are terrible. Apple was telling you how to hold your phone to get reception.

Anyways bugs are not comparable to purposely creating an insane wall garden and charging up the wazoo for everything. I mean keeping texting hostage which is one of the main ways we communicate today is just a horrific abuse of monopoly power. In addition to the price points. It's not the same as a mistake which is a bug.

Also by the way Samsung has created a much better update system. It's much faster and it lasts for more years. Maybe you're talking about Samsung from some years back.

I haven't used a Samsung phone in years but I do hear from a lot of x Samsung critics their newer one UI is actually much better.

They all suck for one reason or another but at least get the comparisons right. You missed the mark here.

You do realize Google has done exactly what you're bitching about, right? Lookup how they've handled Nest customers and look how they're handling Fitbit users. There's others as well (do I need to bring up the graveyard of products and services they've now abandoned?).

And Google was telling users who's new Pixel 2 watches broke to buy new ones because they couldn't even repair them as they don't have any parts. There's also a bunch of Pixel 6 users that had connectivity issues and I think Google offered up a similar "try using it differently" or maybe a "try a different carrier".

Google has been doing the same thing, only their walled garden is kinda shit and there's only some aspects people ever wanted to use.

No it doesn't. Samsung only recently committed to 4/5 years of Android/security updates. And that's if your carrier doesn't fuck over your ability to update your phone. Samsung has worked to try to limit that, but explain why it took Google so long to offer proper support for their devices (and that's if you trust they'll actually hold to it).

Back at ya slick. Apparently you should take your own advice and stop griping about shit from 10 years ago then turning around and talking out of your ass, "sure I don't use Samsung so I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about, but they do it better!"

I do agree they're all shit, just in different uniquely shitty ways. Personally I find Apple's current form of shittiness to be the most palatable. We'll see where things are 5 years from now, I have a LOT more faith that Apple will continue on their slow progression towards being slightly less shitty (often mandated). Google is heading towards self-destruction (potentially possibly partly mandated due to their shady business practices coming due).

Which, good that Google is supporting 7 years, we'll see if they're even still making phones at all by then though because that's a legit concern due to their history. Also apparently they quietly have pushed Chromebooks to 10 years of support so that's good.

You can certainly upgrade RAM in many cases when you find out you need more, but many laptops are soldering in the RAM, or the ability to self-upgrade is limited by substantial disassembly requirements, so people may not fully understand their RAM requirements until it is too late.

Yeah all of them are moving that direction and I think it makes sense now as devices are thinner and there's performance benefits from doing so. Maybe CXL or whatever these new alternatives to DIMMs can offer those benefits while also offering flexibility, but we'll see.

Apples vaunted "security" and "support" are both complete jokes.... the DEVICES themselves are pretty good BUT the system they use completely sucks and leaves your a$$ hanging in the wind.

Additionally ANYTHING compromises your "icloud" account and you are 100% screwed with little chance of contacting any competent help/tech-support that will actually DO anything about it. (and it's a HUGE PITA to create a new/clean account)

Despite how "hip" and "trendy" it is to knock Google, Android 13 is already very secure compared to IOS (provided you set it up correctly watching "permissions") and 14 is looking to be substantially tighter with authenticator app integration.

Um, what? Compared to the many many Android phones that come with malware pre-installed, limited updates (its gotten better, but only because people have been pointing out for years how fucking pathetic Android OEMs have been in this regard, including Google itself having a straight up pathetic support term). So now they're claiming they'll support it that long, but we'll see. Apple doesn't tout it, they just simply keep supporting their devices for years. Because they were smart enough to not get f'ed by either the hardware side (Qualcomm is a big reason why Android support has been crap) or the carriers (which is also why basic messaging on Android has been shit and is becoming a glaring issue compared to iMessage).

You think that's any different for any cloud service? Look at the fiasco that happened to Linus just not even a year ago (and it happened to several others as well). And they went out of their way to put in multiple other layers of security to prevent that from happening. I actually just had to use Apple customer service for an iCloud related issue and it was resolved within 24 hours. Not sure what's so hard about making a new account but then seems you want to rant just for the sake of it.

No its not. I love how you throw in the giant caveat that it is if you lock down permissions its more secure (if you trust those permissions, there's reason to doubt them with Google's first party apps - literally not even their execs understand Google's privacy policies despite them claiming they're transparent and clear and give user control). Hopefully it doesn't use Google's Titan authenticator that was compromised/cracked.

It can't get much less than wide open that most Android devices come as, or ended up as after what 3 years?

To be fair, the iPhone 15 uses last year's flagship A16 Bionic. So it's fair for them not to go back and add functionality to an existing SoC. The "Pro" moniker means little in the Apple ecosystem besides it has more features and costs extra.


Apple has done soldered RAM AND flash storage for years already, starting with MacBook Airs where it at least made engineering sense to do it that way. Apple Macs are basically disposable devices after a few years, which is great if you're an AAPL shareholder.

Samsung was the first Android OEM to move to a 5 year software update model (back in 2021). Google has finally responded by stretching this all the way to 7 years, so I wouldn't be surprised if Samsung adds another year (the limiting factor has always been Qualcomm). While I love to see anything that encourages people to use devices for longer (and discouraging e-waste), I can't argue with 5 years.


Yeah the idea of running Xcode on just 8GB RAM makes the sound of fingernails running across a chalkboard in my head.

Frankly, iPhone 15 should support USB 4/Thunderbolt 4. I'm not sure I've seen anyone call that out. We know they can as the iPad Pros supported it.

That's not true. Most people that I know that buy Apple stuff keep it longer than they do non-Apple stuff. And by keep I mean use regularly.

They didn't make the 5 year change until this year. And its only 4 years of Android updates and 5 years of security patches. They moved to 4/3 in 2021 because they were following Google's pathetically shit lead and promising only what 2 or 3 before that?

That's what Google is complaining about. The whole "Teens won't buy Android because of Green Bubble shame" is wild.

Its weird that people are trying to blame Apple because they had foresight to create a competent messaging program with features people want. Its like the dipshits bitching about Apple having Lightning whilst they ignore Apple made Lightning years before USB-C was even set as a standard (and USB spec standard has turned into a complete shit show since).

I mean, maybe if Google wasn't wasting their time developing 50 fucking messaging program every other year they could figure this out. Nah, instead they'd rather pay Apple tens of billions a year to keep Google as the default search. I'm curious how much Google was paying for Google Maps to be the default and why Apple changed.
 
Reactions: KMFJD
Mar 11, 2004
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By walled garden i am assuming it's being unable to install anything other than from the apple store?

And all the other ways. Like Apple has their own proprietary wireless audio codec, which while neat (supposedly supports lossless audio and even Apple's spatial audio), but their support for other high quality Bluetooth audio codecs is lacking. LDAC I believe is free to license (or I imagine Sony wouldn't have an issue if Apple wanted to implement it into iOS). I think there's some weirdness where certain devices can only support certain audio formats despite easily being able to offer more (like I think most devices are stuck at max 16 bit 48kHz audio, even when streaming 24/192kHz).

There are legit complaints about Apple willingness to enable support for at least some of iMessages features to others.

And how they used to lock down accessories by their certification program. And sticking with proprietary connections.

I think they lock 3rd party styli from some of the features that Pencil 2 has.

Oh and them mandating that all browsers on iOS have to use the Safari rendering engine, essentially turning them into skins of Safari. (This is rumored to be changing though.) I really don't know how they got away with that considering similar was what got Microsoft hammered.

Which some of this stuff would be fine if Apple's stuff was unimpeachable, but it often isn't. But there are aspects where they do well. Like I think you get lossless audio via Apple Music for no extra cost.

Its all a mixed bag though.
 
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Mar 11, 2004
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Like the lightening port design, don’t like usb c, meh

I do too. I'm not a big fan of either the USB-C connector or the mess that is USB standards/spec these days.

Don't get me wrong, I do like having a unified connector, I just wish we had a better one. And as others have pointed out, they screwed up because there's such a wide spec that USB-C can support. And they screwed up by not mandating that TVs support USB-C, which would save some people from having to resort to USB-C to HDMI dongles.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,056
21,184
136
I was going to make the switch, but I'm waffling now as I simply don't use my phone for that much, I don't chat with enough people to make iMessage a big deal, and the uses the iPhone is lacking for those uses (Firefox being more than a Safari skin, supporting AptX/LDAC/lossless Bluetooth other than Apple's own which requires Apple's own headphones at the moment). I want to get a Vision Pro as I think it might be able to offer what I want out of such a headset (namely ease of use, high resolution in a headset that isn't ginormous), but there's aspects about it that I find very lacking and leave me worried it will end up frustrating, or I'll have to spend far too much to find work arounds (see audiophiles buying camera kit and then searching for cables that let them get simple DAC functionality), on top of the already fairly steep price (but since it feasibly might replace multiple montors and/or projector for content consumption). I'm currently moving my Mom over to Apple though. Ease of use, good auto-quality of camera, interoperability (across devices), long term support (big one being able to keep her on the same device longer), and just simply superior base (tablets and watches) is enough.

Microsoft wants to cram shitty AI into everything instead of making the cool stuff they have the ability to (HoloLens, Windows Mixed Reality headsets, Courier, etc). Google can't figure anything out and is probably gonna end up cutting half the shit they're doing now once their tax bills and penalties for their search shenanigans comes due.

Apple was so close to having an easy win (basically a Sony at E3 moment), but they're bungling it with missteps.



Sounds like a poor person problem. I'm kidding, I do think it should have 16GB in any of their computers (8GB in phones and 12GB in tablets would be ok) by now. But its less of an issue when you've got memory and storage bandwidth like the modern Apple stuff does. More would still be better though, and it'd help the longevity of these devices for sure.



You do realize Google has done exactly what you're bitching about, right? Lookup how they've handled Nest customers and look how they're handling Fitbit users. There's others as well (do I need to bring up the graveyard of products and services they've now abandoned?).

And Google was telling users who's new Pixel 2 watches broke to buy new ones because they couldn't even repair them as they don't have any parts. There's also a bunch of Pixel 6 users that had connectivity issues and I think Google offered up a similar "try using it differently" or maybe a "try a different carrier".

Google has been doing the same thing, only their walled garden is kinda shit and there's only some aspects people ever wanted to use.

No it doesn't. Samsung only recently committed to 4/5 years of Android/security updates. And that's if your carrier doesn't fuck over your ability to update your phone. Samsung has worked to try to limit that, but explain why it took Google so long to offer proper support for their devices (and that's if you trust they'll actually hold to it).

Back at ya slick. Apparently you should take your own advice and stop griping about shit from 10 years ago then turning around and talking out of your ass, "sure I don't use Samsung so I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about, but they do it better!"

I do agree they're all shit, just in different uniquely shitty ways. Personally I find Apple's current form of shittiness to be the most palatable. We'll see where things are 5 years from now, I have a LOT more faith that Apple will continue on their slow progression towards being slightly less shitty (often mandated). Google is heading towards self-destruction (potentially possibly partly mandated due to their shady business practices coming due).

Which, good that Google is supporting 7 years, we'll see if they're even still making phones at all by then though because that's a legit concern due to their history. Also apparently they quietly have pushed Chromebooks to 10 years of support so that's good.



Yeah all of them are moving that direction and I think it makes sense now as devices are thinner and there's performance benefits from doing so. Maybe CXL or whatever these new alternatives to DIMMs can offer those benefits while also offering flexibility, but we'll see.



Um, what? Compared to the many many Android phones that come with malware pre-installed, limited updates (its gotten better, but only because people have been pointing out for years how fucking pathetic Android OEMs have been in this regard, including Google itself having a straight up pathetic support term). So now they're claiming they'll support it that long, but we'll see. Apple doesn't tout it, they just simply keep supporting their devices for years. Because they were smart enough to not get f'ed by either the hardware side (Qualcomm is a big reason why Android support has been crap) or the carriers (which is also why basic messaging on Android has been shit and is becoming a glaring issue compared to iMessage).

You think that's any different for any cloud service? Look at the fiasco that happened to Linus just not even a year ago (and it happened to several others as well). And they went out of their way to put in multiple other layers of security to prevent that from happening. I actually just had to use Apple customer service for an iCloud related issue and it was resolved within 24 hours. Not sure what's so hard about making a new account but then seems you want to rant just for the sake of it.

No its not. I love how you throw in the giant caveat that it is if you lock down permissions its more secure (if you trust those permissions, there's reason to doubt them with Google's first party apps - literally not even their execs understand Google's privacy policies despite them claiming they're transparent and clear and give user control). Hopefully it doesn't use Google's Titan authenticator that was compromised/cracked.

It can't get much less than wide open that most Android devices come as, or ended up as after what 3 years?



Frankly, iPhone 15 should support USB 4/Thunderbolt 4. I'm not sure I've seen anyone call that out. We know they can as the iPad Pros supported it.

That's not true. Most people that I know that buy Apple stuff keep it longer than they do non-Apple stuff. And by keep I mean use regularly.

They didn't make the 5 year change until this year. And its only 4 years of Android updates and 5 years of security patches. They moved to 4/3 in 2021 because they were following Google's pathetically shit lead and promising only what 2 or 3 before that?



Its weird that people are trying to blame Apple because they had foresight to create a competent messaging program with features people want. Its like the dipshits bitching about Apple having Lightning whilst they ignore Apple made Lightning years before USB-C was even set as a standard (and USB spec standard has turned into a complete shit show since).

I mean, maybe if Google wasn't wasting their time developing 50 fucking messaging program every other year they could figure this out. Nah, instead they'd rather pay Apple tens of billions a year to keep Google as the default search. I'm curious how much Google was paying for Google Maps to be the default and why Apple changed.

I never said Samsung does it better, you are just foaming at the mouth at this point. QUOTE ME DUDE. In fact, while they have gotten better in the last few years with updates and cleaning up one UI, they still suck in many ways. WHERE DID I SAY SAMSUNG DOES IT BETTER you liar.

Again, I posted more recent things about Apple, besides holding the phone, from Batterygate to a link of all sorts of other bugs. Of course you ignore that because you are a dishonest hack. You are pretending Apple has had no serious bugs or phone issues in 10 years. That is insane. I can dig more up but it seems you will just ignore them because you like to spew nonsense.

Again, I never said Google doesn't have issues, NEVER SAID THAT. In fact I've said they not only have issues with their phones, but their business practices can be shady, like using their monopoloy and money to shut out other search options.

Google hardware defects I acknowledged, they happen. Except that has nothing to do with a walled garden. Google doesn't have what we call a walled garden in that segment of the tech industry. Their apps work on all platforms, their hardware doesn't need to use certified this and that so they can rip you off. You have zero fucking clue what a walled garden is, and that pretty much sums up the intelligence and actual information you have, which is basically nothing but an Apple fanboy rant. Learn some basic shit before you try to talk about it.

This thread was about Apple's walled garden, which you don't even know what it is, and the other guy thinks is great. And when people criticized Google and Samsung, I agreed, they do dumb shit too. But you and Exterous can't admit shit about this particular subject, which is total shit for consumers.

the iMessage walled garden is not about old sour grapes when they created a proprietary services for their customers. This is about today. This is about technology that can work among all phones today, the tech has been here for a bit now, and Apple is playing hostage with their monopoly power, on a fundamental communication platform we use, messaging. and that turns out to be psychologically manipulative to the younger generation. Facetime is just an app they keep walled in. The hardware walled garden has everything to do from price gouging on certified accessories, to to ther things.

I think google sucks when they use their monopoly power in other industries and I am not happy with other issues they have, from privacy to some hardware issues. But I'm not a fanboy.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
15,270
13,571
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I never said Samsung does it better, you are just foaming at the mouth at this point. QUOTE ME DUDE. In fact, while they have gotten better in the last few years with updates and cleaning up one UI, they still suck in many ways. WHERE DID I SAY SAMSUNG DOES IT BETTER you liar.

Again, I posted more recent things about Apple, besides holding the phone, from Batterygate to a link of all sorts of other bugs. Of course you ignore that because you are a dishonest hack. You are pretending Apple has had no serious bugs or phone issues in 10 years. That is insane. I can dig more up but it seems you will just ignore them because you like to spew nonsense.

Again, I never said Google doesn't have issues, NEVER SAID THAT. In fact I've said they not only have issues with their phones, but their business practices can be shady, like using their monopoloy and money to shut out other search options.

Google hardware defects I acknowledged, they happen. Except that has nothing to do with a walled garden. Google doesn't have what we call a walled garden in that segment of the tech industry. Their apps work on all platforms, their hardware doesn't need to use certified this and that so they can rip you off. You have zero fucking clue what a walled garden is, and that pretty much sums up the intelligence and actual information you have, which is basically nothing but an Apple fanboy rant. Learn some basic shit before you try to talk about it.

This thread was about Apple's walled garden, which you don't even know what it is, and the other guy thinks is great. And when people criticized Google and Samsung, I agreed, they do dumb shit too. But the Apple fanboys like you and Exterous can't admit shit about this subject. You gave apple a couple soft criticisms above but about nothing serious. A couple lobs, unfortunately those are just token nonsense.

the iMessage walled garden is not about old sour grapes when they created a proprietary services for their customers. This is about today. This is about technology that can work among all phones today, the tech has been here for a bit now, and Apple is playing hostage with their monopoly power, on a fundamental communication platform we use, messaging. and that turns out to be psychologically manipulative to the younger generation. Facetime is just an app they keep walled in. The hardware walled garden has everything to do from price gouging on certified accessories, to to ther things.

I think google sucks when they use their monopoly power in other industries and I am not happy with other issues they have, from privacy to some hardware issues. But I'm not a fanboy.

But you are an Apple fanboy through and through which this post proves insanely. What a joke of a post.
My personal favorite is the update spiral of death. Certain version of hardware only support certain versions of OS, which in turn only support certain versions of browsers. A sufficiently old mac simply cannot safely browse the internet because it cannot update its browser enough to be protected by a thousand critical security flaws, so you just have to throw it in the garbage. I can take a 20 year old gateway laptop, put win10 on it, install chrome, and rock and roll (slowly, but still).
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,056
21,184
136
My personal favorite is the update spiral of death. Certain version of hardware only support certain versions of OS, which in turn only support certain versions of browsers. A sufficiently old mac simply cannot safely browse the internet because it cannot update its browser enough to be protected by a thousand critical security flaws, so you just have to throw it in the garbage. I can take a 20 year old gateway laptop, put win10 on it, install chrome, and rock and roll (slowly, but still).

Apple has a lot of tricks up its sleeve with hardware that are not so good for consumers. I am mostly against the walled garden especially with stuff that takes basic functions and monopolizes them that are very bad for the consumer, and it's only by wielding monopoly power that they do that. The certified accessory run was absolutely terrible.

I recommend Apple stuff to people. Such as for my mom when she switched phones, and to my sister, who uses Android. She wanted a tablet for my niece this year and was going to go with Android. I said don't do that, go with an iPad, android tablets are great for a few things but in regards to apps for a young kid and in school, there aren't nearly enough optimized for the Android tablet ecosystem vs the iPads which have dominated the market in that regard. She'll be left out if you go Android.

with the phone OS from what I know Apple has no universal select text feature, something I use all the time, also for some reason no universal 'back' gesture, which seems so unintuitive. And I've seen their notification system, it's a mess. These are ways I interact with my phone all the time, they seem like basic but very functional things. You wouldn't know how good they are until you use them. And it took them forever to let you use other apps for basic things like your keyboard. It's just way way too much stupefying shit big daddy stuff.

Also I like to customize my phone. The stock pixel launcher is fine, in fact it lacks enough customization, but I think Google is trying to mimic Apple - the problem is they could have a simple power menu and let people decide what to customize or not, if they want to be a power user. For now third party launchers fill the void well, although Google has gimped a couple things that third party launchers use and so animations can be a bit wonky sometimees, etc.. Can't understand those stupid decisions.

I can appreciate it's hard to support lots of Android phones as there are so so many, with different upgrade levels and length of time depending on the manufacturer, etc..they'd need to limit the phone choices on Android to a select few models and then they could focus on those - which would be the brands who give security and OS updates the longest.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,316
10,814
136
I was going to make the switch, but I'm waffling now as I simply don't use my phone for that much, I don't chat with enough people to make iMessage a big deal, and the uses the iPhone is lacking for those uses (Firefox being more than a Safari skin, supporting AptX/LDAC/lossless Bluetooth other than Apple's own which requires Apple's own headphones at the moment). I want to get a Vision Pro as I think it might be able to offer what I want out of such a headset (namely ease of use, high resolution in a headset that isn't ginormous), but there's aspects about it that I find very lacking and leave me worried it will end up frustrating, or I'll have to spend far too much to find work arounds (see audiophiles buying camera kit and then searching for cables that let them get simple DAC functionality), on top of the already fairly steep price (but since it feasibly might replace multiple montors and/or projector for content consumption). I'm currently moving my Mom over to Apple though. Ease of use, good auto-quality of camera, interoperability (across devices), long term support (big one being able to keep her on the same device longer), and just simply superior base (tablets and watches) is enough.

Microsoft wants to cram shitty AI into everything instead of making the cool stuff they have the ability to (HoloLens, Windows Mixed Reality headsets, Courier, etc). Google can't figure anything out and is probably gonna end up cutting half the shit they're doing now once their tax bills and penalties for their search shenanigans comes due.

Apple was so close to having an easy win (basically a Sony at E3 moment), but they're bungling it with missteps.



Sounds like a poor person problem. I'm kidding, I do think it should have 16GB in any of their computers (8GB in phones and 12GB in tablets would be ok) by now. But its less of an issue when you've got memory and storage bandwidth like the modern Apple stuff does. More would still be better though, and it'd help the longevity of these devices for sure.



You do realize Google has done exactly what you're bitching about, right? Lookup how they've handled Nest customers and look how they're handling Fitbit users. There's others as well (do I need to bring up the graveyard of products and services they've now abandoned?).

And Google was telling users who's new Pixel 2 watches broke to buy new ones because they couldn't even repair them as they don't have any parts. There's also a bunch of Pixel 6 users that had connectivity issues and I think Google offered up a similar "try using it differently" or maybe a "try a different carrier".

Google has been doing the same thing, only their walled garden is kinda shit and there's only some aspects people ever wanted to use.

No it doesn't. Samsung only recently committed to 4/5 years of Android/security updates. And that's if your carrier doesn't fuck over your ability to update your phone. Samsung has worked to try to limit that, but explain why it took Google so long to offer proper support for their devices (and that's if you trust they'll actually hold to it).

Back at ya slick. Apparently you should take your own advice and stop griping about shit from 10 years ago then turning around and talking out of your ass, "sure I don't use Samsung so I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about, but they do it better!"

I do agree they're all shit, just in different uniquely shitty ways. Personally I find Apple's current form of shittiness to be the most palatable. We'll see where things are 5 years from now, I have a LOT more faith that Apple will continue on their slow progression towards being slightly less shitty (often mandated). Google is heading towards self-destruction (potentially possibly partly mandated due to their shady business practices coming due).

Which, good that Google is supporting 7 years, we'll see if they're even still making phones at all by then though because that's a legit concern due to their history. Also apparently they quietly have pushed Chromebooks to 10 years of support so that's good.



Yeah all of them are moving that direction and I think it makes sense now as devices are thinner and there's performance benefits from doing so. Maybe CXL or whatever these new alternatives to DIMMs can offer those benefits while also offering flexibility, but we'll see.



Um, what? Compared to the many many Android phones that come with malware pre-installed, limited updates (its gotten better, but only because people have been pointing out for years how fucking pathetic Android OEMs have been in this regard, including Google itself having a straight up pathetic support term). So now they're claiming they'll support it that long, but we'll see. Apple doesn't tout it, they just simply keep supporting their devices for years. Because they were smart enough to not get f'ed by either the hardware side (Qualcomm is a big reason why Android support has been crap) or the carriers (which is also why basic messaging on Android has been shit and is becoming a glaring issue compared to iMessage).

You think that's any different for any cloud service? Look at the fiasco that happened to Linus just not even a year ago (and it happened to several others as well). And they went out of their way to put in multiple other layers of security to prevent that from happening. I actually just had to use Apple customer service for an iCloud related issue and it was resolved within 24 hours. Not sure what's so hard about making a new account but then seems you want to rant just for the sake of it.

No its not. I love how you throw in the giant caveat that it is if you lock down permissions its more secure (if you trust those permissions, there's reason to doubt them with Google's first party apps - literally not even their execs understand Google's privacy policies despite them claiming they're transparent and clear and give user control). Hopefully it doesn't use Google's Titan authenticator that was compromised/cracked.

It can't get much less than wide open that most Android devices come as, or ended up as after what 3 years?



Frankly, iPhone 15 should support USB 4/Thunderbolt 4. I'm not sure I've seen anyone call that out. We know they can as the iPad Pros supported it.

That's not true. Most people that I know that buy Apple stuff keep it longer than they do non-Apple stuff. And by keep I mean use regularly.

They didn't make the 5 year change until this year. And its only 4 years of Android updates and 5 years of security patches. They moved to 4/3 in 2021 because they were following Google's pathetically shit lead and promising only what 2 or 3 before that?



Its weird that people are trying to blame Apple because they had foresight to create a competent messaging program with features people want. Its like the dipshits bitching about Apple having Lightning whilst they ignore Apple made Lightning years before USB-C was even set as a standard (and USB spec standard has turned into a complete shit show since).

I mean, maybe if Google wasn't wasting their time developing 50 fucking messaging program every other year they could figure this out. Nah, instead they'd rather pay Apple tens of billions a year to keep Google as the default search. I'm curious how much Google was paying for Google Maps to be the default and why Apple changed.

I've personally experienced (with a friends Apple account) the sheer raging incompetence of Apple "support" and "security"..... getting in MAY be harder with Apple thanks to strong default encryption but getting help to fix it if it DOES happen is darn near impossible. I hope for your sake you never learn just how impossible.

A good friend of mine runs a very successful corporate-security/IT firm ... per him anyone who thinks their icloud/Apple account is "safe and secure" is foolish and delusional. IPhones and any other device that "phones home" to Apple on powerup by default are banned from his company network. (mostly Linux some Win 10)

Finally "Android OEM" and Google's pure "Android OS" are two very different things..... a Samsung Galaxy properly configured by a user with a brain is a tough nut to crack while skads of cheapo Chinese plastic $hitbox $100 "Androids" might as well be classified spy DEVICES.
 
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manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,839
2,798
136
Frankly, iPhone 15 should support USB 4/Thunderbolt 4. I'm not sure I've seen anyone call that out. We know they can as the iPad Pros supported it.

That's not true. Most people that I know that buy Apple stuff keep it longer than they do non-Apple stuff. And by keep I mean use regularly.

They didn't make the 5 year change until this year. And its only 4 years of Android updates and 5 years of security patches. They moved to 4/3 in 2021 because they were following Google's pathetically shit lead and promising only what 2 or 3 before that?
USB3+ transfers on an iPhone just isn't a huge thing because few people ever plug into a PC. Now there are creators who shoot and edit 4k video, so they definitely need the throughput. The iPad Pro uses M1, so it has a "desktop class" SoC.

I was being facetious about Apple products being disposable. I wasn't commenting on their product quality, which I agree is very good. But rather that they ship and sell tons of base models at retail, which leads to shorter upgrade cycles. It's definitely part of the business model. I wasn't literally claiming people throw away their Macs after 3 years. I think Apple is great, but there is a pronounced "Apple tax" to be a part of their ecosystem. American consumers overwhelmingly don't seem to mind, but a tech forum like ours is gonna weigh in differently.

Samsung switched to a 5 year update model 21 months ago:

To be clear, it's still a bit behind Apple's unofficial 6ish years of support. But yeah compared to pre-2022 support, 5 years is perfectly adequate. Also, Google has pushed a LOT of underlying services/libraries into the Play Store. So even if you're running an ancient Android 9, you're still getting a lot of security updates just above the base OS layer. This is different from Apple where default apps and services are all shipped only with the OS, so you can't get browser security updates if you don't keep your OS fully updated.

Also as @[DHT]Osiris pointed out, Apple leads in iPhoneOS support but lags in macOS long-term support.

Anyone who screams that Apple doesn't have a good security and support posture doesn't know WTF they're ranting about. You know what they say about anecdotes and assholes.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,113
14,479
146
USB3+ transfers on an iPhone just isn't a huge thing because few people ever plug into a PC. Now there are creators who shoot and edit 4k video, so they definitely need the throughput. The iPad Pro uses M1, so it has a "desktop class" SoC.

I was being facetious about Apple products being disposable. I wasn't commenting on their product quality, which I agree is very good. But rather that they ship and sell tons of base models at retail, which leads to shorter upgrade cycles. It's definitely part of the business model. I wasn't literally claiming people throw away their Macs after 3 years. I think Apple is great, but there is a pronounced "Apple tax" to be a part of their ecosystem. American consumers overwhelmingly don't seem to mind, but a tech forum like ours is gonna weigh in differently.

Samsung switched to a 5 year update model 21 months ago:

To be clear, it's still a bit behind Apple's unofficial 6ish years of support. But yeah compared to pre-2022 support, 5 years is perfectly adequate. Also, Google has pushed a LOT of underlying services/libraries into the Play Store. So even if you're running an ancient Android 9, you're still getting a lot of security updates just above the base OS layer. This is different from Apple where default apps and services are all shipped only with the OS, so you can't get browser security updates if you don't keep your OS fully updated.

Also as @[DHT]Osiris pointed out, Apple leads in iPhoneOS support but lags in macOS long-term support.

Anyone who screams that Apple doesn't have a good security and support posture doesn't know WTF they're ranting about. You know what they say about anecdotes and assholes.
I’m one of the few who would enjoy the USB3+ speeds. We don’t use iCloud past the free 5GB the phone comes with and my wife makes online scrap books for travel and each school year. A couple of times a year I need to offload a few 100 pics and videos to upload to shutter fly and to back them up on the home server. It’s painful over USB 2 and the download tends to fail after a few minutes requiring a disconnect reconnect cycle (or phone restart) to get it started again.
 
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manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,839
2,798
136
I’m one of the few who would enjoy the USB3+ speeds. We don’t use iCloud past the free 5GB the phone comes with and my wife makes online scrap books for travel and each school year. A couple of times a year I need to offload a few 100 pics and videos to upload to shutter fly and to back them up on the home server. It’s painful over USB 2 and the download tends to fail after a few minutes requiring a disconnect reconnect cycle (or phone restart) to get it started again.
I think it's fucking hilarious that 2022 flagship iPhone 14 Pros were still limited to USB2, as late 2023 MacBook Pro base configs still ship with 8GB RAM. But that's how you build a $3T market cap selling a lot of consumer devices.

Since you experience the USB2 pain point sometimes, it's only a matter of time before you upgrade to an iPhone 16 or later.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,113
14,479
146
I think it's fucking hilarious that 2022 flagship iPhone 14 Pros were still limited to USB2, as late 2023 MacBook Pro base configs still ship with 8GB RAM. But that's how you build a $3T market cap selling a lot of consumer devices.

Since you experience the USB2 pain point sometimes, it's only a matter of time before you upgrade to an iPhone 16 or later.
Agreed about the USB2. As for other apple products we stick with their mobile products, watches, iPads and AirPods. They work well together.

For regular computing, I stick with home built PCs and major manufacturer windows laptops. While Mac chassis are nice I can get similarly decent machines from Dell or HP and for a lot less depending on what’s on sale.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,316
10,814
136
I'll let my buddy with a $200 million dollar plus booming corporate network security business know he doesn't have a clue.

I'm CERTAIN the "expert" opinions expressed about icloud/Apple account "security" will influence him tremendously and cause his company value to plummet. Or not. (ROTFL)

256 bit encryption as used by Apple devices IS extremely tough (bordering on impossible) to crack with current tech. Default encryption (and thus cracking directly into a device) are very tough on an iphone, HOWEVER getting into an iCloud account is VASTLY easier through other means and a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. (and Apple support is literally useless till you reach at least level III)

You can use an Android phone without staying signed into anything and with a encrypted PHYSICAL SIM + PIN code best of luck hackers. This "intellectual" topic reminds me of "security" people who defend the use of ESIMS. (derp)


EDIT: For the (obviously) less informed, Android 13 makes it a total PITA to get back in your google account when you HAVE all the correct info and virtually impossible without.... 14 will make it harder still with Google Authenticator integration. (provided you aren't stupid enough to buy a cheap Chinese-branded phone)
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,056
21,184
136
I'll let my buddy with a $200 million dollar plus booming corporate network security business know he doesn't have a clue.

I'm CERTAIN the "expert" opinions expressed about icloud/Apple account "security" will influence him tremendously. (ROTFL)

256 bit encryption IS extremely tough (bordering on impossible) to crack with current tech. Default encryption (and thus cracking directly into a device) are very tough on an iphone, HOWEVER getting into an iCloud account is VASTLY easier and a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

You can use an Android phone without staying signed into anything and with a encrypted PHYSICAL SIM + PIN code best of luck hackers. This "intellectual" topic reminds me of "security" people who defend the use of ESIMS.

But it doesn't make sense. Apple controls the entire hardware from soup to nuts, to go along with the software, and controls the entire update process, thus making it easier to guard against vulnerabilities all things being equal.

The huge hardware variety of Android with phones being reliant on the phone manufacturer pushing forward the Google Updates, creates a lot more to worry about.

I wonder if companies simply restricted the approved Android devices to maybe 5-10 strongly supported models, if that would do the trick. Rather than force everyone into Apple's walled garden because most people don't want to carry two phones around.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,316
10,814
136
But it doesn't make sense. Apple controls the entire hardware from soup to nuts, to go along with the software, and controls the entire update process, thus making it easier to guard against vulnerabilities all things being equal.

The huge hardware variety of Android with phones being reliant on the phone manufacturer pushing forward the Google Updates, creates a lot more to worry about.

I wonder if companies simply restricted the approved Android devices to maybe 5-10 strongly supported models, if that would do the trick. Rather than force everyone into Apple's walled garden because most people don't want to carry two phones around.

You would think, I agree. Arrogance and stupidity are the problems IMO not the technology. (heck the NSA needed Apples help to crack an iphone 12 .... they must be doing something right!) That's why we need to be specific when i comes to comparing iphones (mostly the same/similar) to Androids which vary from comparable to iphone quality to the worst junk you ever saw in your life!

At the moment if I wanted a RELATIVELY secure smartphone (none are 100% safe) I would suggest either the Pixel 7/8 Pro or a Samsung Galaxy s23 which both get essentially monthly security updates.

As a cheaper "plan B" I'd seriously consider the new Lenovo "Thinkphone". (despite being owned by Chinese Motorola the firmware is secure)

Any of the above 3 Androids (barring user-installed malware or misconfiguration) will do a pretty decent job covering your rear-end. (and the Lenovo allows creation of a true "limited user" secondary account even on Android 13 without resorting to parental controls)



EDIT: One thing about Apple I will say IS much more secure, is the "Apple Store" vs "Google Play" software library.

While you can get in trouble in either place, Apple is MUCH more proactive removing mal/spyware and preventing it being there in the first place too.
 
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Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,480
3,599
126
Please set up a survey form and collect anonymous feedback from these users. That's the only real way to find out. Reason I say this is, I have seen users suffering with lesser hardware and not informing IT because they don't want to appear as "fussy users" or divas and think that if IT deems their demands are unreasonable, they might get reported to higher management for trying to acquire more expensive hardware than the IT team has determined they need.

Like a project manager in my office cannot help opening tons of tabs on his 8GB system and even with an SSD, his system gets overwhelmed. He's a really nice fellow so he doesn't ask for faster hardware even though he really needs it. Even if he were to ask, the IT admin would ask him why he needs the faster system, he will show how he works and the IT admin will just say, "Don't do it this way. Open only the tabs you really need". We all know how much disdain most IT admins have for non-techie employees.

There's a difference between barely acceptable and smooth as silk. A lot of IT admins don't care if a user's experience is barely acceptable. They are fine with that. "It works as expected. I got better things to do."
No need - they're involved in testing the options for the hardware selection. Here's the thing: I have no dog in the race of hardware selection. It's not my budget. I don't support them long term. I don't know their jobs the way they do. Organizations get what is supposed to be a cross representation of users from casual to power together and test the various options for an extended period of time then they get together and decide what options they will provide to people under what conditions. My team give guidance and helps with initial implementation and circles back around for feedback about 1 year later. And this is in higher ed - you will NEVER find a more fussy user base than faculty. Or at least I haven't across a few different industries. The only other group that gets close is the Leading Sales Guy/Team who can almost do whatever they want as long as they bring in the $$$
 
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Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,480
3,599
126
You still can't see Jack.

You can't even admit the overpriced walled garden stuff.

I've literally spoken to people who like Apple who can't stand that shit and will gladly admit it.

You can't handle really any other criticism of Apple, meanwhile I have plenty of criticism for Samsung and Google too. Google's hardware issues, ethical issues, monopoly power abuse. Samsung and their proprietary crap and trying to shove Tizen into things for so long.

You fanboying on Apple is the only thing going on here. You still can't own up to the real deal going on. You can say all you want about how objective you are but that doesn't mean anything. It's pretty clear you're anything but.

I'm not denying the wall garden has some positives but you just ignore all the negatives which are quite quite substantial. And you ignore it all. You literally say you can't bring yourself to criticize it. Even some huge apple fans in the tech community admit the walled garden can be pretty fucked up and terrible for consumers. But you can't.

Very definition of fanboy.

Bigly sad.
Oh cool - you spoke to people who like Apple. That really sounds like a great representative sample. Well I have spoken to people who like Android and like the Apple walled garden! So I guess we're at a draw? (And I really actually have had that conversation with people)

You are arguing points I never made. I never said there are no flaws with the walled garden. I already criticized Apple's fleet management capabilities. I get that Apple's Walled Garden touched you somewhere naughty but at least stick to what I've said instead of going off on a weird tangent.

You literally say you can't bring yourself to criticize it.
Strange. Don't remember saying that at all. If I literally said that please feel free to quote the post where I said that. What I DO remember saying is this:
But the walled garden? There are a lot of huge positives to that esp when it comes to malware. Is it perfect? Nope.
Huh. For something to not be perfect there must be something wrong which would be a criticism. But that is odd. Because you said I couldn't bring myself to criticize it. Hell I didn't even say it was better for everyone
 
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